Deyvantius's page

Melee Cleric of Desna. Travel and Liberation domains. 2nd would be Milani.

Great guide man. I took a busted paladin-2/bard-2 into vigilante and turned out alright thanks to this

Sacred Servant and Oath of Vengeance can't stack

When I think of a 'Warrior Poet' I think of someone that writes, but not necessarily performs poetry. Someone who having to face the grim reality of combat turns to poetry as a means to understand and express these complex feelings. William Buttler Yeats is a great real world example.

If that is what you want, the skill would probably be profession: poetry, not perform: oratory. You can be good at writing poetry, without necessarily being a performer.

this is good insight

Essentially just a melee capable guy with skills like Perform "Oratory" Knowledge: History etc.

Int: 11, Wis: 8: Cha: 14; Str: 18

Some ties to Apsu of course. Apsu followers are usually wanderers so I kind of had a medieval Jack Reacher vibe going.

Mainly I'm thinking a paladin-2/class-x with a 4 level dip into DD for thematic reasons. So it's really skald/bard/oracle to pair with my Paladin. either Paladin focus afterwards or the caster

I'd recommend pure Skald, but I guess the Paladin 2 is already set in stone.

Actually only Paladin-1 is set in stone

So I started a new campaign as a Paladin of Apsu without much thought into my character. Now we have advanced to Level 2 and I have determined that a "Warrior-Poet" of Apsu is my calling.

My thoughts are Paladin-2/Bard-7/DD-4

or Paladin-2 Straight Bard.

Which do you guys think is the better combination.

The party is a Swashbuckler, Investigator, Arcanist, Barbarian, and Cleric so every role is filled. The adventure has been in Osirion so far

I have given consideration to straight Paladin but the 2 skill points per level are killing me.

Paladin -4 Sacred servant/oath of vengeance; monk (many styels) -2; ranger/slayer -2; decent saves, charisma to saves, 2 dope style feats, etc throw in 2 levels of unbreakable fighter for fun too

Thanks fellas I like your input

Normally I find thread derailments a minor annoyance but it really sucks to comeback and get excited about 36 new messages only to find people talking irrelevant drivel.

We aren't playing in "Golarion" technically but I pace restrictions on myself beyond the norm.

1. Is a "Gray Gardener/Warden" an inherently evil or neutral class that doesn't match up with a Paladin?

Or

2. If I was playIng in Golarion, would a lawful good Gray Gardener be out of the realm of possibility? I mean even if he left Galt due to its inability to match his alignment
could he still advance as a "gardener"?

Do note, no alignment restriction is shown in the Gray Gardener description.

Also, I was more utilizing the class for mechanics, as I would be executing evil things as a Paladin of Damerrich

I'm speaking on "Gray Gardeners" and why would a necromancer be a "Gray Gardener" when the whole focus is to keep things dead? What sourcebook are you referencing?

Does anyone see issues with a Paladin of Damerrich turning into a Gray Warden?

There is nothing inherently evil about a Gray Warden and Damerrich is the God of Executions

Currently I am 5 levels into Wizard and about to level up. Got my hands on a Warhammer +1 with Returning in a fight I wasnt supposed to win, but the dice gods were in my favor.

I am a Air Elemental school Wizard for the Levitate, Feather Fall, and Fly at will.

Now I am thinking of taking a level in Divine Hunter under Paladin to gain Precise Shot without having to get Point Blank. Also it gives me detect evil which currently I have been using See Alignment and always picking evil, so this frees up a slot. At level 4 I took Throw Anything already, so with that and the weapon proficiencies I wont be taking an penalties to throwing the Warhammer. And one I get fly at will at level 10 Wizard, I will be going into Eldricht Knight.

Paladin 1/ Wizard 10/ Eldricht Knight 9

What do you think?

I think if the idea is to be a "Thor Build" this is one of the worst ways I have ever seen. Thor fought with his war-hammer first and threw it secondary. With a 10 str you will be horrible melee fighting with the hammer, and the damage when thrown will be worthless.

Go strength based and get a Belt of Mighty Hurling

Why do you specifically want to do a dex based build over a strength based build?

Clearly because DEX brings initiative, reflex saves, and dodge bonuses...Makes perfect sense

So I'm noticing this text about Gray Paladins

-Her aura of courage does not make her immune to fear, her aura of resolve does not make her immune to charms, and her aura of righteousness does not make her immune to compulsions.-

So even though I don't get "immunity" to fear, charms, compulsions, etc from my auras do I still get the same +4 on the saves as my allies?

Often imitated, never duplicated, the bard is the best choice. Even if another class matches it in buff, they can't match it in skills and versatility.

I just finished playing the kingmaker campaign and in it I played of an Inquisitor well a Friend of Mine played a paladin and I can say I honestly believe my Inquisitor could take their Paladin and head up fight not to mention being thrown away more skilled and flexible outside of anything other than possibly straight up head-to-head combat

against an evil opponent the inqusitior would probably get owned. good vs good, the paladin is supposed to lose. perhaps not even fight

So they normally only heal people that pay them (is this some kind of objection to 'socialized medicine'?), never give money to charitable causes and get special access to a spell to run away from trouble that no other paladins do. Very paladinic.

Really no different than many conservatives (except for the charity thing) and I wouldnt' say none of them are "Lawful good" or capable of being a Paladin. "Do for self"

That begin said I think I will stick Paladin and go for Kurgess as the deity. He travels to face evil as he sees it as the ultimate competiiton and the greatest sport of all...or something to that effect

There aren't many Paladins of Abadar, and again I'm thinking thematically vs mechanically. Not that I'm against optimizing, but I'm trying to figure out what suits my PCs personality best. Both of these classes can easily pull their weight.

The LG Paladin may not always agree with his God regrading his allowance for evil within the church but he understands/believes a great and lawful society will naturally steer towards GOOD. Cheliax be damned. that also might be why he spends so much time adventuring against evil rather tending to home fires.

I know it seems like my mind is made, but I'm actually trying to see why the theme would not for a paladin, though Dom has kind of agreed that either will work but Clax is right that Abadar isn't really against evil so much as anything that threatens order of civilization.

Perhaps Iomedae is better...which was my least favorite choice and Sarenrae is not an option (just played a cleric last campaign)

So I'm thinking of creating a new character for a campaign. I want him to be a follower of Abadar who specializes in hunting down and destroying evil to make way for the spread of civilization.

I'm having trouble deciding on whether or not that fits a Paladin or Inquisitor more thematically.

Paladin I see a Holy Guide, Sacred Servant, and Oath of Vengeance build who has survival skills, travel domain, and can smite.

The inquisitor would be a standard inquisitor.

The difference I'm weighin is that an Inquisitor would be more like a FBI agent focusing on domestic "terror" while the Paladin is the Special Forces operative going abroad ...or maybe I have it backward.

Does anyone see a clear distinction between the two or could they both fit rather well?

How do you "triple up on judgment" and have 6 abilities going?

What happens when you can't take your AC?

DPR Sacred Hunstmaster Wins

Versatility, which is king

Standard wins.

Both are badass as is slayer

I think 5 levels of cleric is ideal for battle herald. Cavalier-2 (cockatrice)/Cleric-5 even better. First round debuff through intimidate and swift action divine favor (metamagic master and magical lineage) make divine favor quickened at level 7 (plus add in a drawback and get fates favored for even more goodness.

or buff party and yourself first. debuff optional. Thats before even stepping foot into battle herald

Got a 5 man group looking for GM or 5th player (preferably GM) post here or DM me. Group is scattered from Willowbrook to Baytown.

Pathfinder only.

I know this is a thread necro, but I'm playing in a group with a Tielfing with 5 CHA and to see him constantly engage in every social situation with no Diplomacy skill is HIGHLY annoying. I understand it's the GM job to impose drawbacks, but to see clear exploitation of the rules is a joke to me.

Call me Grognard or whatever but cheese is cheese. Period. I'd rather a GM force my group into awkward and tense social situations as a result of the PC than to completely ignore it.

The build is no longer valid due to MoMS errata.

Did that make you feel better?

Yeah think I'll go trapper- freebooter 1/wizard and then Eldritch knight with focused study. A 2 level drop in wizard doesn't put me much behind sorcerer and the skill focus will keep me similar to a seeker oracle.

Porridge I've actually been considering the trapper but never the urban ranger but now I see that too. I was actually afraid of our lack of magic but it hasn't been too much of Handicap...for now. Other than the bard I have pondered a trapper-ranger 1 into Wizard transmuter 4 with an intent to go to Eldritch knight at 7. Use focused study as a human to skill focus into perception and disable device

You both suggested great options. I won't do Investigator because we already have a Alchemist and I don't want to be that close. The slayer I won't do because my previous PC who died was a slayer lol. Damn shadows

Every dungeon, abandoned mansion, evil castle, etc we have been in has possessed multiple traps - mundane and magical.

The common theorycrafing I've seen doesn't work irl. Nobody is running around with a wand of dispel magic to cast on every trap we see, nor is anyone doing the same to summon a monster and knock down every door, especially considering we are often trying to sneak in and not call down every monster in the setup.

So I'm creating a new character. The group consists of an unchained monk (DEX based), alchemist, and warpriest.

Logically that leads to needing a trapfinder but that's where I'm stuck. I've got it narrowed down to a few options, but for the life of me can't choice between the 3.

Rogue/Ranger
Archaeologist Bard
Trapper/Bard
Trapper/Cleric (you can never go wrong with a cleric)

What do people think is the best choice considering the current group makeup?

No summoners, no class with without trapfinding (won't work in this campaign) although all I need is 1 level. We will be starting at level 5.
Please provide brief reasonsing for selection as well.

My current front runner is a STR based trapper-freebooter 1/archaeologist bard-4 using a reach weapon. Gives me a minor buff with freebooter's bane and trapfinding goodies.

Trapper - ranger (1)/ vanilla bars - archer. Jesus that's so cliche and yet I'm probably going to do it....

Summoners are not allowed. I did see the same hole as you but I'm really not a fan of seeker oracle or sorceror. I thought about trapper/freebooter into Druid or Animal Cleric (feather domain) but ultimately decided the group will have to be without a full caster.

I'm with the trapper/freebooter dip, now I'm weighing vanilla bard vs arcane duelist.

Deyvantius wrote:

May even go trapper/ranger 1 and then just straight bard

So, no arcane caster and no social ability in the group?

Pretty unwise, IMHO.

How is a bard not filling both of those?

I meant Ranger (Trapper/Freebooter)-1/Bard-4 instead of the Archaeologist Bard

I think that's a better option than what you were planning

Yeah. While traps are a real threat with this GM, they are not constant enough to warrant such focus. The Paladin dip does set me back spells wise but provide good saves, at some point it is overkill too.

The ranger/bars build makes me A much better buffer, better skill selection, and even the ever +1 attavk/damage for all untyped

Yeah I think I'm going to raise Wis to 10 and Int down to 10 too. May even go trapper/ranger 1 and then just straight bard

So it's either a Dex or STR based Bard Archaeologist -5 or a STR based Paladin-2/Archaeologist -3.

Trapfinding naturally lends itself to the DEX build, but there is nothing like wrecking shop with a trusty two-hander...or longsword

e.

.... (+10 will at level 5 with 10 wisdom). In fact, with the delays to his bard and archaeologist abilities he won't really be ahead by much till level 6 or 7, and he will cripple his spellcasting in the meantime.

How am I +10 wis at level 5? You must be considering Luck as a constant bonus which I do not. I'm already level 5 so essentially next level I will be ahead by much

If you are going DEX based look into slashing grace for DEX to damage. Drop power attack (for now) and arcane strike and take weapon focus and slashing grace. This would get you +6 to damage with elven curve blade. Pick up power attack...

If slashing grace worked with the elven curve blade I would love this path (it's my favorite weapon) but it doesn't.

When I say crappy Saves, I'm referencing the fact I have a -1 to Will Save due to 8 WIS and No bonus at all to Fortitude and a 12 Con (going straight Bard). I don't see how adding a +CHA at all times especially considering it's my secondary STAT) is a negative. Not to mention, every spell I'm "gimping" myself by not being able to cast due to dipping can be used by a scroll.

I'm not trying to reject all suggestions (seeing as how I took the power attack advice over additional traits), but I'm not willing to take someone's advice based on unsound logic.

I'd take near autopass on saves vs 2 more levels of Bard spells. At level 5, not having Mirror Image or Heroism, is no real gimp especially considering I get them next level IMHO. Glitterdust is a great spell, but I got some scrolls for that..

People are claiming that Archaeologists luck is like a permanent save boost. However this is simply not true.

For one it's a swift action so activating it outside of combat in response to say a trap triggering isn't gonna happen.

...

I still agree that Dipping Paladin isn't worth your time however. Instead try a combat style that gets you multiple attacks per round to get the most out of heroism and Archaeologists luck.

I appreciate your thoughts, I'm trying to decide if a +1 bonus to pretty much everything (saves, attack, and hit) a few levels earlier through Luck and more bard spells, better than the massive save bonus, minor smite evil and lay on hands, access to better armor and all martial weapons, I get from Paladin.

I've died or been rendered useless through failed saves far more than caught s@#+ out of luck over a missing spell.

I like two ninja levels for the ki pool extra attack and piddly sneak attack (mostly to open up a few talents) but otherwise I wouldn't dip out of archeologist.

ninja is a non-starter simply because...I don't like ninjas.

I did drop the additional traits in favor of power attack

Hi,

Here are my suggestions:
1. Forget the paladin levels and go full bard
2. Starting at 5th level, I would go archery, but if you prefer melee... well, it's ok, I suppose
3. More wis, less int. For melee, more Con, less Dex.
4. Forget extra traits and skill focus. Lingering Performance is a feat tax, so keep it. Get some combat feats. Power Attack, Arcane strike, Improved Initiative... stick with the classic ones, they're good.
5. I am not sure about craft wondrous item, especially that early, but if you have the use of it your campaign and nothing better to do with your feat, it isn't a bad selection.
6. Get a lesser rod of extend spell to double the duration of your heroism spells.

At 5th level, your luck bonus is +3 thanks to the fate's favored trait and you get another +2 from Heroism. That's a net +5 to almost every roll (except for damages, +3 only). You should be quite competent in combat. Out of combat, you're a bard, so you're good even without trying.

1. That's setting me up for very crappy saves, bard spells vs +2 to all saves is a discussion worth having.

SO I recently died in my current campaign and I've decided (though open for alternate classes) to run with a Paladin (Divine Hunter -2)/Bard (Archaeologist -3).

The current group is a Warpriest, Unchained Monk, and Alchemist. Leaving me to fill the skillful trap-finder role while also offering some Melee help.

I'm focusing on STR as opposed to DEX so I'm my current idea is to go

DEX 14
STR 18
CON 12
INT 13
CHA 14
WIS 8

and

LINGERING PERFORMANCE
CRAFT WONDROUS ITEM
ADDITIONAL TRAITS (Vagabond Child, Fate's Favored, MAgical Knaoc, and need a 3rd)
SKILL FOCUS (PERCEPTION) - Human Race Variant
PRECISE SHOT - Divine Hunter

At 6 I'll get Power attack from Archaeologist 4, and I'm looking for anything that I might have missed.

Can I get some optimize help?!??!

- No 3.5 material.
- I do get to craft wondrous items at half off if I can make them by taking 10 on a spellcrafting check so I can load up on low level magic items.

I'm interested in variant builds, but trapfinding is a prerequisite and don't bother with the "summon a monster you don't need trap-finding line". A lack of trapfinding is TPK city in my corner of the gaming universe

Liberation

While not always useful...when useful it trumps everything else. By far the best domain power

The new cheeze is to take Divination wizard level 1 and use the clairvoyance disk or whatever to qualify for EK at level 3.

Combat Maneuvers are under-rated

It's obvious some people are trying too hard to be "different"...

The best "end-game" fight or whatever is usually one with multiple enemies i.e. mooks. I really hate how most GMS spoon feed players and intentionally dumb down combat so PCs can win. The problem is even more exacerbated by the ease of optimizing. I prefer a GM who runs a campaign with story-arcs - usually 3-4 levels each with the opportunity for crafting, bartering, travelling etc.

The boss fight is usually a level appropriate villain with 2-3 guys to help out. Maybe an invisible cleric who only heals, a Invulnerable barbarian with an animal companion who flanks with each other, difficult environments that require climb, swim, and acrobatic checks. Basically anything that challenges players to break from their cookie cutter "I saw this on the boards" build.

Lore. warden-Nuff Said

Do I still suffer a -4 penalty for firing into melee if I'm flanking an enemy with someone else and using Point Blank Master. Assuming I don't have Precise Shot of course

I really don't understand how anyone is not clear on this issue. A 7th level evangelist/ 10 holy vindicator would have the channeling ability of a 17th level evangelist and the sermonic performance of a 7th level evangelist. One ability stacks and the other doesn't.