So I made this up as I wanted to play a Jedi/Psionic's type character. I looked at trying to mix the into the Monk as best I could without compromising the Monk or overpowering it entirely. I looked at the Qinggong, Zen Archer, Weapon Adept, and the Ki Mystic Archetypes. Pulling things from all of them qualities that I felt were appropriate. Also help me figure out a cool name for this too. Feedback welcome because I want to keep it balanced as best as possible. Also not entirely sure if I wrote down everything I needed to so if you catch something lemme know.
Jedi Monk
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If you can't tell I'm bad at this.
You need to set the document so that anyone with the link can view it.If you can't tell I'm bad at this.
Haha, no worries man. That's what the messageboards are for. I'll take a look at it here in the next day or so. In the meantime, what is your goal with the types of spellcasting that the class/archetype does? Do you want primarily psychic and compulsion things like mage hand or charm person? As a "jedi," are you focused on it being proficient primarily with a sword weapon, unarmed, or any weapon? Are flurries what you want, since that's usually why Monk is invoked as a base class, aside from unarmed damage, or are you looking more at a perfect strike type deal? Do you want the concept to be explicitly Star Wars-flavored for a d20 campaign, or are you looking to have the mechanical feel of a Jedi in a Pathfinder setting?
You need to set the document so that anyone with the link can view it.If you can't tell I'm bad at this.Haha, no worries man. That's what the messageboards are for. I'll take a look at it here in the next day or so. In the meantime, what is your goal with the types of spellcasting that the class/archetype does? Do you want primarily psychic and compulsion things like mage hand or charm person? As a "jedi," are you focused on it being proficient primarily with a sword weapon, unarmed, or any weapon? Are flurries what you want, since that's usually why Monk is invoked as a base class, aside from unarmed damage, or are you looking more at a perfect strike type deal? Do you want the concept to be explicitly Star Wars-flavored for a d20 campaign, or are you looking to have the mechanical feel of a Jedi in a Pathfinder setting?
Basically I am looking for a monk that specializes in swordplay. The dueling sword seemed perfect for that. And flurries are what I want. And I wanted them to mechanically feel like a medieval Jedi. Using its ki for the manipulation of things and those around the character. The Flurry is part of being a monk. So thats what I wanted. if that makes any sense.
I honestly think this concept would better fit a swashbuckler.
I don't think unarmed strikes and flurry of blows fits with a jedi. I get the good saves and wisdom thing, but I would go after something with a full-bab and perhaps 4-level spellcasting.
On a mechanical level jedis do feel a bit like potential paladins, magi or clerics albeit without the armor. Though I suppose monk with a dip in cleric or inquisitor for the innuendo subdomain could look pretty interesting. Alignment should be LN or LG I suppose.
I think at first glace monk is an obvious choice because 1) they have to be lawful, 2) they wear robes and no armor, and 3) have that whole mystic thing going for them. I was going to suggest swashbuckler, but that sort of counters the vibe a bit and they don't get the ki stuff.
Having looked at it now, though, I think making a swashbuckler archetype that renames Panache to something more mystical (midiclorians? =P) and swaps out some deeds for minor magical abilities could end up working best. If you're really wanting to stick with Monk, let it be known, but as the class is currently you'll be working pretty hard to fit that square peg into a just-ever-so-slightly-larger round hole.
There was someone a couple weeks ago who made a quick-strike archetype for swashbuckler that gets to flurry
Okay I'll work on it. And I agree with that idea of the it should probably be a full bab. But I feel like it will wind up functioning like a cross between an arcane ranger and a monk. Limited spell casting but what spells they can cast they do it well. And I guess after reading these suggestions I have a little to think about.
I will be using the Swashbuckler as a base idea for deeds and ki like powers. But have three good saves and some minor casting abilities. Okay so basically I am going to mix a swashbuckler and monk together, with the Swash being the primary and Monk being secondary. And I guess the Magus as a tertiary. So yeah that does sound like the idea wanted, being a Sword Play Mystic.
I will make another post updating what features will be moving over from the monk.
Doing a bit of Monk and Swashbuckler mashup seems like it'd be fun. Be careful trying to squeeze in Magus, though, because the class can and will start to get bloated fast. Also keep in mind that three good saves, like a d12 HD for barbarian, is a unique Monk feature that no other class gets. If you have something significantly stronger than the monk shell (which isn't terribly difficult), three good saves is a really big boon.
Why not play a Magus? What is this homebrew class going to do that a Magus or Kensai Magus can't? Do you just want to stack on more combat effectiveness? Because if the goal is to make a Magus that is better at sword combat + gets all good saves + full BAB, then you're going to end up with a class that's too strong.
A question, wouldn't a psychic warrior or soulknife archetype work better? Soulknives have the whole "have a personal uberweapon" schtick and one of their archetypes has limited manifesting for jedi force powers, while psychic warriors have a more balanced force powers/martial approach, and some of their paths work quite well for an unarmored/lightly armored character (ascetic/mindknight, for example). The traceur can be an impressively mobile opponent if you don't mind giving up your armor proficiency (which for this concept would not be a huge issue), and for higher-level games, the meditant archetype may be especially useful, as it can flurry with monk weapons.
Yeah thank you Puna. I fixed the Saves giving them a Ref/Will good and Fort being not so good. I didn't go and add spell casting like I thought I thought I might. Just didn't seem to fit. To make up for the lack of fort I added Purity of Body and Diamond Body to it as well as Abundant Step, Timeless Body, High Jump, and Fast Movement. I feel that they are far and stick to my idea of a Jedi/ Swordsinger. (Swordsingers from the Elder Scrolls Lore if you have any knowledge of them.) So thats where I am at right now.
And Shaman, I have looked at the Psionic's stuff but I just can't get behind it. Its really kind just easier to me make a home brew class that functions off of already established core classes. And I like this, making up classes. Its cathartic in a way.
Well, all good saves is a nice boon, but it isn't worth six class features. A pretty easy way to do a Swashbuckler archetype or alternate class (which is what this seems like you're aiming for) is to swap out deeds for comparable abilities at the same level. Fast Movement is nice and can do a surprising amount of work, while Abundant Step is very much a unique Monk ability and shouldn't really be touched, in my opinion, unless you've got a very good thematic reason for it.
What could be interesting is to swap out Charmed Life for something defensive and Monk-like, change the Panache pool to one that derives its points from Wisdom, maybe even just call it Ki, and reflavor some of the deeds to make them more mystical and less "lucky sword guy!" If you really want to have minor psychic magic, that's something that could be a deed every time the swashbuckler gets a new set of deeds, and replace something more offensive. Careful of letting pool points act as spell casting if you go this route and cast spells with Panache/Ki points, since you can easily end up with too many spells/day.
And I agree: making a class is fun. It's good practice and gets you pretty familiar with the design process and what considerations game designers have to keep in mind when they do this stuff.
That makes sense to me. So I swapped out Abundant step for a Freedom of Movement like ability (With the caveat of having at least one Inua Point.) this hopefully synergizes well with fast movement. I have renamed Panache to Inua and at forth level gets something like Mystic Ki (a pool = to 1/2 level + Wis and an additional 2 every two levels) and Inua received at the first level is only equal to the Wisdom Modifier. I don't know hopefully that helps focus the class a bit. So hopefully if you want to take a look at it now I hope it looks cleaner.
even if you don't use the psionic stuff, its a great way to check the balance points of any class you plan to make. I think that they have some of the best development cycles for balancing their classes and wouldn't be the only one who thinks that.
Okay, that sounds reasonable I will give them a look really cool and have been looking at the psychic warrior. I really like them but I am afraid of them being overpowered. Though I guess thats most third party things. But Psionics stuff seems balanced and I'll give them a read through when I get the chances.
I agree, the special martial maneuvers of the monk are best represented by some supernatural abilities imo, and a point-based casting system makes more sense as the typical D&D magic "slot based" one. I'd say psionics (as "ki magic") works well flavorwise too.
The stuff from DSP's Ultimate Psionics are very well balanced and pretty good quality. If you're looking for a plug-and-play, that is a good place to start looking, or a nice spot for some ideas if you want to make your own class. Personally, I'm not a big psionics person and most of my players couldn't care less, so I've never had a reason to get the book/PDF, but I've read through it. I'd recommend it and definitely say that it won't be overpowered in the least compared with the other balanced Pathfinder classes, if that's your thing.
I think you're on the right track if you're going for your own class though. One thing; are you making "Inua" something the class gets at 4th level? Or giving ki-pool-esque abilities at 4th? If you're going with a pool for something on a Swashbuckler chassis, it's a good idea to have it come in at 1st since that's what the class is balanced around. If you want it to come in at 4th, you'll need to frontload a bit, eliminate reliance on the pool 1-3, and make sure that what they get are things that are comparable to what another full-BAB martial is getting at that level.
A minor thing, but it might be easier to just list the weapon proficiencies like:
Proficient with all simple weapons and all one-handed weapons in the Heavy Blades and Light Blades fighter weapon groups and one-handed slashing weapons in the monk weapon group.
Uses much less text to get the same point across.
Between all good saves, full bab, possibly 4 skill points, it seems like there won't be a lot of room for the jedi's actual powers.
Quite a few of the lesser powers can be handled by cantrips: open/close, mage hand, and detect (alignment) among others. Some of the jedi powers can be handled by spells like command, charm person, shield, jump, and telekinesis
Wisdom to AC seems like a choice everyone agrees on.
Create a list of Jedi powers that are selected every even numbered level (in the vein of rage powers and rogue talents). Some Jedi powers are more common but few are universal.
Don't cater the class towards one kind of force-empowered character. Don't even push sword/lightsabers/etc or any specific weapon. Maybe lightsaber can be a jedi power that is an optional, but not rrequired. This should still be a PF class that can be customized to a variety of character types.
Okay so wrote out what the pools do and how they function. I haven't done the description of the deeds. I'm just wondering what magical like deeds they should get.
Okay so wrote out what the pools do and how they function. I haven't done the description of the deeds. I'm just wondering what magical like deeds they should get.
Agreed with @Ciaran above. The problem a lot of people run into when making classes is trying to be overly specific on one singular concept. It works if you're just trying to jury-rig an archetype for a home game, but if you're really wanting something for posterity it's worth it to take the time to let it be more open.
I'd take a look at what the Qinggong Monk gets and find inspiration there. Minor effects, as stated above, are probably just fine as a 1st-level deed that replaces something like Dodging Panache or Derring-do. Make sure they're relatively mundane and won't step on the toes of the party's casters, but have some use. Martial characters getting cantrips can be fun, and if 1/day you can throw out a charm person or command, that's not too crazy.
From my point of view, taking off a deed or two from each and replacing them with something more thematic can work out. You just have to be careful that you aren't taking defensive things and giving offensive things, or just straight upgrading an existing ability (without good reason). For example, replacing Kip-Up with a deed that allows for flurry of blows is waaaaaaaaay out of line, but giving a jump-like ability that is used by spending pool points is pretty ok.
I have added a few Deeds to the list and I am doing my best to keep it with in reason so if people want to look at them and make some suggestions for others.