Creevy's page

Xethik wrote:

How do you feel about losing out on the d6s precision damage due to an ally attacking before you? Is that a tactic with tradeoffs (having ally delay for the potential of you hitting for a bit more) you want to keep in?

I'm going to clarify that you can wait to trigger the ability rather than having it trigger the first time the enemy's hit. I want the trade-off to typically be "Do I attack or do I cast a spell and let someone else get the bonus damage"? Depending how you build your mesmerist, you might pretty much pick one of those exclusively. :)

I had misunderstood what this ability had done. The way it is actually set up, I'm not sure it's giving enough of a bonus. I would recommend changing the ability to "once per round per character". An extra amount damage equal to half your level at any point per round is not overly substantial. Also, it is my understanding that the goal of the mesmerist is to be a skirmishing caster. I feel as though forcing one to choose between the bonus to damage to an ally and choosing the d6 for yourself is not playing into that, but further dividing the mesmerist.

If you must keep it to only a single attack per round, I would recommend that you make it something like, "all allies gain an attack bonus on stared creature equal to your mesmerist level/3 (minimum 1). Whenever an ally hits the creature, you may expend this as an immediate action to give a damage bonus equal to half your mesmerist level. If you expend this on yourself (d6 rule here)".

Really, really fantastic changes here. Now that the duration of tricks have been changed, I think they can for the most part be left alone. I'm talking about the trick style as a whole, not necessarily the individual tricks themselves. Those I haven't looked into enough to comment on.

Painful stare was really needed. Great job on it. I like that it boosts our allies so even if we miss we're still filling the support/debuff role. One thing I would change is give Mesmerists a +1 attack buff/3 levels to go with our extra d6 damage dice. That can be the attack bonus we need. Mess with the numbers if you find that too strong, but I don't think it is. It's only a +1 until level 6.

Other than that, honestly I feel the main issues with the class were taken care of. The plus to Bluff was a nice surprise. I understand that the Mesmerist is meant to be an okay skill monkey but not as good as say, the bard or investigator. So maybe a small change, such as allowing diplomacy to be used off the bluff skill? It saves us a skill point and lets us use the new bonus on the most used face skill. Just a thought. Not really needed but perhaps wanted. Likewise, the lack of rapier is killing me, but I'm a dirty dirty min/maxer that wants Fencing Grace. Still, it's thematically on point.

But they are wants, not needs. I would roll this class happily now, especially if the bonus to attack is added (the only thing I feel the Mesmerists are at this point truly lacking). Great job.

The BAB/HD in particular follows the typically format of d8, 3/4, 6th level spells. It's conservative, at the cost of potential, which when developing a new magic system, doesn't set the classes up to attract attention.

The class also packs rogue-like weapons, but has no real incentive to use them.
This makes me think that, perhaps it needs Sneak Attack.

With the Rogue-like weapons, and several abilities like Vanish spells, and False Flanker, and Compel Alacrity, a slow progression of sneak attack could really tie the class together, and give it some aggression, while hopefully not overshadowing other sneak attack based classes.

Dear god, make the Mesmerist the Arcane Trickster Gotham deserves.

From the 6+ skill points per level, I assume that the mesmerist is meant to be at least somewhat of a skill monkey, especially when drawing parallels to the bard. With the idea of tying tricks to skills, what about literally tying a skill to each trick, and adding a passive bonus equal to your charisma modifier to the skill when you select a trick? Or getting a free rank in the skill (giving the +3 trained bonus) when you pick that trick? The thing is, in its current state the mesmerist is sort of MAD, and there's no reason to go into INT outside of skill points. Where the bard has versatile performance to cope with this, I think the mesmerist could benefit from a similar buff, especially with the main shtick of the class being utility in buffing and debuffing.

Logan, is there anything you could share with us about whether you are leaning towards making the mesmerist a caster/martial hybrid like bards, or trying to make it a full caster? I'm interested to hear what this class is supposed to be.

Creevy wrote:

I haven't playtested the mesmerist yet, but this is my opinion based solely on reading the document. I won't touch on tricks, as that's been done enough here. Rather, I'll focus on the spell level progression and BAB. It feels like the mesmerist is supposed to resemble a bard, with a 3/4 BAB, 6 level spell progression, and the same spells per day. However, I see no martial functionality to boost their prowess in the way that bards can inspire. Even more importantly, their weapon proficiencies are sorely lacking for a character with limited daily casting like the mesmerist currently has.

To fix this, I see two possible routes. The mesmerist could be changed to a 1/2 BAB class and given 9th level spell progression with more spells per day, making it a dedicated caster with a focus on enchantment and illusion. Alternatively, something as simple as proficiencies with weapons like the rapier, longsword, shortsword, and perhaps short bow would give them viable combat routes and turn them into a more versatile character that fights martially with buff and debuff support. I personally would vote for the former, as I feel the latter is beginning to look just like a bard, but I feel as though one of the two should be done.

How about 1/2 level spell casting and the yet another class feature? The current mesmerist tricks can be the defensive option while something like a souped-up limited use hex-like class feature as an offensive option?

That way the people who want "tricks" to be offensive can get something while the people who enjoy the idea of hypnotic defensive programming stay happy as well.

I think there is a lot of design room for a 1/2 BAB class with just a plethora of class features to offset it.

I'd be fine with that. Instead of increasing spells per day, keep it limited and add in offensive class abilities like witch hexes. That would be totally cool. The important thing is that the class has something to do every turn of combat, and it doesn't have the spells/abilities or weapon proficiencies to do that just now.

I haven't playtested the mesmerist yet, but this is my opinion based solely on reading the document. I won't touch on tricks, as that's been done enough here. Rather, I'll focus on the spell level progression and BAB. It feels like the mesmerist is supposed to resemble a bard, with a 3/4 BAB, 6 level spell progression, and the same spells per day. However, I see no martial functionality to boost their prowess in the way that bards can inspire. Even more importantly, their weapon proficiencies are sorely lacking for a character with limited daily casting like the mesmerist currently has.

To fix this, I see two possible routes. The mesmerist could be changed to a 1/2 BAB class and given 9th level spell progression with more spells per day, making it a dedicated caster with a focus on enchantment and illusion. Alternatively, something as simple as proficiencies with weapons like the rapier, longsword, shortsword, and perhaps short bow would give them viable combat routes and turn them into a more versatile character that fights martially with buff and debuff support. I personally would vote for the former, as I feel the latter is beginning to look just like a bard, but I feel as though one of the two should be done.

Hello everyone, I'm trying to build an Investigator, and I had a question about the Inspiration ability when used in conjunction with the Orator feat. The important segment of the inspiration ability reads:

"An investigator has the ability to augment skill checks and ability checks through his brilliant inspiration. The investigator has an inspiration pool equal to 1/2 his investigator level + his Intelligence modifier (minimum 1). An investigator's inspiration pool refreshes each day, typically after he gets a restful night's sleep. As a free action, he can expend one use of inspiration from his pool to add 1d6 to the result of that check, including any on which he takes 10 or 20. This choice is made after the check is rolled and before the results are revealed. An investigator can only use inspiration once per check or roll. The investigator can use inspiration on any Knowledge, Linguistics, or Spellcraft skill checks without expending a use of inspiration, provided he's trained in the skill."

Emphasis mine. There's a new feat in the ACG called Orator. This reads:

"Orator

Prereq: Skill Focus Linguistics

Benefit: you can use your linguistics in place of bluff when telling a lie, Diplomacy when changing an attitude, and Intimidate when forcing cooperation."

Keeping these in mind, could I take the Orator feat, and then add 1d6 to all allowed bluff, diplomacy, and intimidate rolls without spending a point? I'm not sure if the answer is yes because I'm using my linguistics ability, or no because it's still considered, for example, a diplomacy check that I'm not using my diplomacy skill for. Any clarification would be appreciated.

Thank you everyone for your responses. I'm certainly not married to the idea of tripping--that just seemed like the best way to spend my time when not casting. Do you think it would be viable to have a Dex of 16+headband for a bard who wants to use archery, but prefers to focus on spells?

Likewise, I'm not married to being a halfling. I was unaware until recently that small characters take 3/4 on capacity--which changes a lot. I might try to make this into either Aasimar from above, or a half-elf for flavor purposes.

Would you say that it is less important for a bard to go first (IE, Reactionary+Improved Initiative is less crucial) than a full caster?

Hey everyone, I decided to try a bard out in PFS. Normally most bards get their CHA to 16 and then focus on their martial prowess. I wanted to go the opposite route, upping my CHA as high as possible and using my spells and whip to do my best wizard impression, while still retaining the skill monkey and social abilities of the bard. The whip is intended to trip opponents, and give me something to do when I'm not casting. I was hoping you'd look over what I have now, as well as give me some advice especially on feats, which is where I really need the help. I have no interest in using archetypes, as most of the good ones give up versatile performance and/or bardic knowledge, and I want to primarily be a skill monkey. This is my first time posting on here, so if I forget any information let me know and I will provide it.

My build so far:

Halfling Bard level 1

Str: 7 (5)
Dex: 14 (16)
Con: 14
Int: 14
Wis: 7
Cha: 17 (19)

Traits: Reactionary and Indomitable Faith (to buff my Wis dump)

In terms of spells I plan on taking mostly debuffing/good SoS spells, and when I am not casting them I plan to be tripping or disarming my opponents.

Feats are where I really need help. I have no need for whip mastery, as I do not plan on doing damage with my whip whatsoever. However, even without it, Weapon Finesse is crucial due to my strength dump, and I believe Improved Trip to be important as well, which means I need Combat Expertise. Even Greater Trip wouldn't go underutilized, but I also want Improved Initiatve since I plan to primarily be a caster/pseudo-caster.

On top of those, I'm afraid the DC for my spells won't be up to snuff, and was considering taking Heighten Spell for that reason. Do you think I'll need this, or will I be able to get by on the Charisma I have currently? Not to mention the bard favorites, Spellsong and Discordant Voice.