Cho'gal's page

3 posts. Organized Play character for Rumbleroar.




So, an interesting thing happened at my most recent PFS game, and I wanted to see what other people think about it.

I was running a 3-7 scenario with several people from my local lodge, including two of my more mechanically-minded players. I also had a player (let's call him Bob) who's relatively new to the game, and perhaps not the most socially skilled of fellows. He's running a psychic sorcerer of some kind; a few minutes of research tells me that he's a psychic bloodline sorcerer from Occult Adventures, and is 4th level or so. I haven't audited his character or anything, but my understanding is that his spell selection is mostly mind-affecting stuff. Certainly most of the things he does at the table are mental attacks from the psychic sorcerer spell list - he uses mind thrust and psychic strike as his main attacks, and honestly isn't too creative in what he does - 90% of the time it's one of those two things. If his target is immune to mind-affecting attacks, like an undead or something, he'll either use that ability anyway or do nothing.

At the beginning of the scenario, one of my players told Bob that he'd gotten some complaints about his character, and basically said something to the effect of "You should change your spell selection so it doesn't suck so much. Stick around at the end of the game and we'll talk about it."

Understandably, Bob reacted to this rather defensively. I stuck up for him, generally of the opinion that it's nobody's business how their character is set up, and tending far more toward the roleplaying side of the hobby than the mechanical. I attempted to defuse the situation, basically saying that it's Bob's character and he can play it as he likes.

That said, I can understand where they're annoyed. Bob's character DOES kind of suck at his job, but I feel like if he's not asking for help, criticizing his PC isn't helping anything. It's one thing to have a semi-useless character at low levels; most low-tier scenarios aren't really very threatening, even if PCs do dumb stuff or make almost entirely sub-optimal choices. Hell, I've seen low-level scenarios where one PC who's built well as a generalist can basically solo the whole scenario if they want. Difficulty ramps up considerably around 5th level or so, to the point where having to carry a character through who isn't contributing to the party much can put everyone's PCs in real danger of death.

So, what do people think is the right answer here? How "optimized" are characters in PFS supposed to be, and how much does that change as they level up? I realize a lot of this will be determined by scenario choice and the specifics of the region's players, but honestly the idea that someone's character isn't "up to snuff" rubs me the wrong way. I'm not sure there's a good way to advise a player on this without coming off as insulting, and I don't want to be a lodge where there's a feeling that "You have to be this competent to play with us." That way lies a level of elitism and rudeness that I'm not too comfortable with.


Has anybody noticed this? I was printing pregens yesterday for a convention, and noticed that the 1st level magus pregen exists now. I checked him over and found that, at 1st level, he has spellstrike.

Spellstrike is a 2nd level magus ability, and there aren't any archetypes or anything on Setyiel that would give it to him early.

Anybody know what's going on? I'd assume that it's just there because it's a defining ability of the magus class, but I would think that if that was the intent they'd change the class, not just adjust it for a pregen.

Is it just a mistake on the part of whoever wrote up the pregen, or an intentional change for the pregen? If so, are there any other rules "adjustments" going on for any of the other pregens? I know I almost always adjust some things when I'm writing up a pregenerated characters for a convention game or something, but I'm not doing so as part of the same company that's writing the game!


(Accidentally posted this in the wrong forum earlier, re-posting here.)

Amateur Swashbuckler has a requirement that you can't have the panache class feature. A sleuth has a similar feature, luck, but it's not specifically called out as a panache pool. Would I be able to play a Sleuth with Amateur Swashbuckler in a PFS game? I've been out of the loop for a while; has there been an official word on the equivalence of panache, grit, and luck?


Amateur Swashbuckler has a requirement that you can't have the panache class feature. A sleuth has a similar feature, luck, but it's not specifically called out as a panache pool. Would I be able to play a Sleuth with Amateur Swashbuckler in a PFS game? I've been out of the loop for a while; has there been an official word on the equivalence of panache, grit, and luck?


If I'm playing a swashbuckler and confirm a critical hit and use Butterfly's Sting to pass the critical's damage on to an ally, do I regain a point of panache?

The crux seems to be what does "forego the effects of the critical hit" mean? You have already confirmed the crit to get to Butterfly's Sting, so do you regain the panache when you successfully confirm, and then the "effect" is just the extra damage? Or do you have to forego the bonus damage and the panache?

I'm contemplating a sleuth investigator build with the Helpful trait, focusing on Knowledge skills and with the Swift Aid investigator talent. He'd focus on a small rapier and have Amateur Swashbuckler, and hand out crits to allies.

d20PFSRD wrote:
Critical Hit with a Light or One-Handed Piercing Melee Weapon: Each time the swashbuckler confirms a critical hit with a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon, she regains 1 panache point. Confirming a critical hit on a helpless or unaware creature or a creature that has fewer Hit Dice than half the swashbuckler's character level doesn't restore panache.
d20PFSRD wrote:

Butterfly’s Sting (Critical)

You can forgo a critical hit in order to pass it on to an ally.

Prerequisite: Combat Expertise.

Benefit: When you confirm a critical hit against a creature, you can choose to forgo the effect of the critical hit and grant a critical hit to the next ally who hits the creature with a melee attack before the start of your next turn. Your attack only deals normal damage, and the next ally automatically confirms the hit as a critical.


Would a multiclassed wizard/magus need to have two entirely separate spellbooks, or would he be able to have one spellbook for both lists, with some spells only available to prepare using slots from one class or the other, based on what appears on the class's spell list?

I'm contemplating a magus build with a one-level dip in admixture evocation wizard so I can swap a lot of my attack spells to cold (I want to play a magus who left Irrisen because of prejudice against male spellcasters, so he left and joined the Pathfinder Society). Just not sure how I need to work things out for my spellbook.

The same question applies for any prepared spellcaster, really. I could see the same question for a multiclassed magus, wizard, arcanist, or even alchemist.


(Note - this conversation will contain spoilers for Night March of Kalkamedes. Don't read any farther if you don't want to spoil a neat scenario!)

I ran NMoK last week for my normal PFS group, and things went a little strange. I'm wondering if I should have been a bit harsher on them, but wanted to see what other PFS GMs thought.

For those of you not familiar, the climax of the scenario involves two creatures in summoning circles - one a gnome that is awake and talking, and the other a badly injured and unconscious female. The gnome is a powerful demon; the woman is a powerful CG celestial (a ghaele azata) that came to the site to banish the demon, but failed and ended up trapped and badly hurt in a nearby summoning circle. The demon has a zombie dragon he controls, but the zombie dragon can't enter either summoning circle.

So, the PCs in question are a LN human cleric of Asmodeus, a N tiefling fighter, and a LN aasimar slayer. There a few other PCs on the side of the cavern (a NG human bard/swashbuckler and a human gunslinger). All PCs are somewhere in the 1-3 level range.

The way the scenario is written, the demon tries to get the group to free him, and sends his zombie dragon to attack if it's clear that's not going to happen, or if the group tries to wake up the celestial. Seems reasonable enough. The PCs spent some time talking to him, and poked some holes in his story, so they don't trust him, and start investigating the celestial. This prompts the (hidden) dragon to leap out and attack.

Combat starts happening, and goes badly for the PCs quickly. The gunslinger goes down, and the fighter is badly hurt by the dragon. The group decides they need help, and the unconscious woman is going to be it. The cleric of Asmodeus breaks the circle around her and goes inside to wake her up... with a wand of Infernal Healing. On a Chaotic Good outsider. The aasimar slayer and tiefling fighter both start hiding in the circle, counting on the anti-undead protection to keep them alive.

So, when the celestial wakes up, there's a cleric of Asmodeus standing over her, and she's got an Infernal Healing spell active on her, which explicitly says it feels corrupting and evil. So, surrounded by what look like enemies, I did what seemed like the most reasonable thing for her to do - she dropped a Holy Word.

Looking it up, I see that, by RAW, a Holy Word should flat-out kill all three nearby PCs. They're more than ten levels lower than her, and none of them are good, and they all failed the save against the spell. However, I elected to say that she didn't kill them, instead using the other effects - they were all (as I recall) paralyzed and blinded for several minutes. The dragon was close enough to get the edge of the Holy Word as well, so that really turned the tide of the fight, since it was blinded. The non-incapacitated PCs finished it off and finished the module successfully, and I had the celestial fix the afflicted PCs with her magic.

So, should I have killed all three PCs? There are no tactics for the celestial; it seems to be assumed that she stays unconscious through the fight, but they woke her up in the middle of it, and looked like a clear and present threat from her perspective.

What do other PFS GMs out there think?


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Does a multiclassed Monk / Sacred Fist Warpriest get their Wisdom bonus to AC twice? They both use the same text and everything, but both are untyped bonuses. I don't see any reason why that wouldn't work, though logically I don't think it makes much sense. Should that text have been added after they included the ability to multiclass with the parent class? I have a monk/warpriest in PFS, and will apply the Sacred Fist archetype to him, I think, just want to clarify.


I've got enough PFS credits for a second level PC, and one of the ones I'm thinking of is a Calistrian archer of some kind, focusing on hunting down people who have done wrong or gotten away with something that they shouldn't have. In my mind he's a very revenge-focused character, so he focuses on that aspect of her faith more so than the others.

I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to put him together, however. It seems like without low-level bonus feats an archer can't really do much until 3rd level, and your only feats are going to be Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot. I know he'll likely have to end up multiclassed, though the second class will likely just be a splash of a level or two. Race is firm on either elf or half-elf.

This is for PFS, so those are the constraints I'm working under. Here are the classes I've considered:

1. Inquisitor can do most of the things I want, and can do stealth and divine magic together, which is good. I've heard they can make nasty archers. This is my leading contender. However, the lack of bonus feats means I can't do much effective archery until 3rd level, when I can pick up Precise Shot - I don't see any way to get that earlier than 3rd as a straight inquisitor. Straight inquisitor makes me kinda tempted to just accumulate a few more GM credits and start the PC at 3rd level instead of 2nd, or do ninja2/inquisitorX.

2. Ninja gives me a bit of sneak attack, poison use (giant wasp poison everywhere!) and, at 2nd level, the ability to spend ki for extra arrow shots, above and beyond rapid shot. Seems like fun, though I think at most I'd take two levels of it, as that gives me access to ki and the Extra Trick feat.

3. Warpriest would give me Weapon Focus, a few not-very-useful blessings, and the ability to have my whip deal 1d6 damage (which isn't very useful, it's still a whip, but funny anyway). I'd also get full BAB and Weapon Focus with the longbow, which would make me a lot more accurate.

4. Ranger or slayer might be useful, though one level doesn't get much of either, and I think slayer is mostly melee-only. Wonder if the ACG is going to have a ranged slayer archetype?

Any further thoughts? Has anyone played a similar character?


Has anyone heard anything about an expansion of the iconic pregens to include the classes from the Advanced Class Guide after that's released? I know it's unlikely, considering there aren't PFS pregens for all the existing base classes, but after reading a few of the write-ups that they're doing on the blog, I was curious.

It's also possible that they won't simply because the classes are more complicated, and the pregens are intended to be fairly newbie-friendly.


It looks like this is the 2012/2013 edition (the Player's Guide for this version was released in 2012 and the Game Master's Guide, pictured, came out in 2013).

Is that accurate?


I have a cleric I'm thinking about playing with the Persistence inquisition, as the domain spells for his other domains are kinda poor anyway, and that inquisition has some good powers for a dwarf (a speed buff, mostly).

However, it's not clear just which inquisitions I can choose, as they are not listed by deity. Here's the quote from Ultimate Magic:

Quote:
Inquisitions are intended for inquisitors, not for other classes that give access to domains. While a cleric or other domain-using class can select an inquisition in place of a domain (if appropriate to the character’s deity), inquisitions do not grant domain spell slots or domain spells, and therefore are much weaker choices for those classes.

So what are the guidelines on the bolded section for PFS play? Whose call is "if appropriate to the character's deity"?

If it matters, I'm planning on playing a dwarf cleric of Angradd, the dwarven god of war, with War (Tactics) and Persistence as my two domain choices.


I had a question come up that I wasn't sure if I handled properly, and wanted some thoughts from other PFS scenario GMs.

I was running Murder on the Throaty Mermaid, which is a scenario that makes heavy use of the faction mission mechanics. In the Secondary Success Document, in fact, it says that the faction missions are still necessary for that scenario, so I wanted to hand them out.

However, I have almost no one in my group from the old factions that existed at that time. There's no Silver Crusade or Grand Lodge faction missions there, and that's 4/5ths of the players I had signed up. I know you're supposed to hand out the faction mission for corresponding factions, so I know what their mission is supposed to be, but it seems off to hand them a letter assuming they're part of a different organization.

Can we write up a similar letter from their actual VC and hand it to them, without changing the intended mission, just setting it up so that it's from the right faction? Or do we have to give the handout in the scenario, even if it doesn't make sense?


What are, in people's opinions, the best of the current starting scenarios? I just picked up the following to start running PFS games in my area (Anchorage, AK) and am wondering what the best starter would be.

I grabbed the low-tier scenarios I could find for this season and the last. That includes:

Severing Ties
The Disappeared
The Cyphermage Dilemma
The Veteran's Vault
The Night March of Kalkamedes
The Glass River Rescue

Obviously I'll read over them, just wondering on people's opinions on what current modules form a good first impression - I was going to run the First Steps series but it seems they've been retired.


Are there any people interested in PFS games in the Anchorage area? I just moved to the area and I'm thinking about trying to run PFS games, and was wondering if there was interest.


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I've put together the following revision to the rogue base class. Please let me know what you think of these changes. There's a lot to it, so I've tried to use spoiler tags to break things down a bit into more manageable chunks.

I'm interested in any opinions people have, mostly concerning whether or not it fixes perceived problems with the rogue class, and if it's balanced.

The goals of this revision are as follows:


  • Combine the ninja and rogue classes into one class. Ninjas should, in my opinion, be a sub-group of rogues that have learned shadow-related magic. Nonmagical ninja are just rogues in an Asian setting. I felt like the ninja class was Paizo's own rogue revision to give them more magic. I don't like rogues relying on magic; I'd rather boost up the rogue talents, which is what I did here, as I think they're the most important element of the class, along with skills. There is a pretty sizable talent tree based on the shadow magic talent to represent "magical ninja", though - they can be pretty neat, and I didn't want to leave anybody out in the cold, least of all ninjas who can walk through walls and kill me in my sleep.

  • Boost rogue talents. Lots of the RAW rogue talents are weak, usable once per day only for an effect that's less powerful than an equivalent spell available to a caster class. I'm not a fan of that. I added a pool of points using the grit mechanics from the gunslinger that rogues can use to activate powers that were previously once-per-day, and standardized that across the class's mechanics. It's similar in function to the ninja's ki pool, but I like the mechanics of grit where you get rewarded for doing what your class should do more than an arbitrary per-day point pool. I'm up in the air on what recharges it - as written it's two things. 1. Drop an enemy with sneak attack, and 2. Roll a natural 20 on a skill check. I figured that encourages rogues to do what they should be doing pretty well. Originally I had some mechanics about winning an opposed skill roll by a certain amount, but those numbers didn't work out well and were clunky. "natural 20 on a skill check" is easy to remember and close to the gunslinger's grit mechanics.

  • Make rogue talents more consistent. Splatbooks had added a number of rogue talents that were all doing the same thing but were each a different talent. I tried to fold those together where I could. There were several different "walk up to someone, draw a weapon, get sneak attack" talents that were rolled together into one, for example. I added the Skill Adept talent to use the D&D Next advantage mechanics that several UM and UC talents used - you spend 1 cunning and roll two dice for a skill check with a chosen skill, and take the better one. It's a nice, simple way to make rogues really good at skills, which is something they should be good at.

  • Added a number of new rogue talents. A few of them are poison-related alchemist discoveries; most are just new. They focus on skills, action economy, helping rogues hit, the surprise round, and combat maneuvers, mostly.

  • Rogues should, in my opinion, mostly care about either Dex+Int or Dex+Charisma. That's why I set up the cunning pool for Int-based rogues and the panache pool for Charisma-based rogues. All the examples I could think of of for rogues combined one of those two, so I think it works out pretty well. Arguably it makes them a little bit more MAD than they were, but I think most rogues had decent-to-good scores in one of those two stats. Dex is actually only important because they're still a lightly armored class - you could pick up heavier armor and would be able to do Str/Int or Str/Cha with this class as written too, if you don't care about Dex-based skills.

Cunning & Panache: SteelDraco's Revised Rogue

Alignment: Any

Hit Die: d8

Starting Wealth: 4d6 × 10 gp (average 140 gp.) In addition, each character begins play with an outfit worth 10 gp or less.

Class Skills

The rogue's class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Dex), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Stealth (Dex), Swim (Str), and Use Magic Device (Cha).

Skill Ranks per Level: 8 + Int modifier.

Base Attack Bonus: Medium
Fortitude Save: Poor
Reflex Save: Good
Will Save: Poor

1st: Cunning pool, rogue talent, sneak attack +1d6, trapfinding
2nd: Evasion, rogue talent
3rd: Sneak attack +2d6, trap sense +1
4th: Rogue talent, uncanny dodge
5th: Sneak attack +3d6
6th: Rogue talent, trap sense +2
7th: Sneak attack +4d6
8th: Improved uncanny dodge, rogue talent
9th: Sneak attack +5d6, trap sense +3
10th: Advanced talents, rogue talent
11th: Sneak attack +6d6
12th: Rogue talent
13th: Sneak attack +7d6
14th: Rogue talent
15th: Sneak attack +8d6, trap sense +5
16th: Rogue talent
17th: Sneak attack +9d6
18th: Rogue talent
19th: Sneak attack +10d6
20th: Master strike, rogue talent

Cunning

Rogues live on their skill, improvisation, and fortune. A rogue who can't outthink his opponents is not likely to survive to see another day - he lives or dies by his cunning. In game terms, cunning is a fluctuating measure of a rogue's ability to manage amazing feats. At the start of each day, a rogue gains a number of cunning points equal to his Intelligence modifier (minimum 1). His cunning goes up or down during the day, but usually cannot go higher than his Intelligence modifier (minimum 1), though some things may affect this maximum. The rogue spends cunning to use his rogue talents, and regains cunning in the following ways.


  • The rogue gains a point of cunning when he rolls a natural 20 on a skill check.
  • The rogue gains a point of cunning when he reduces a worthy opponent to 0 or fewer hit points with an attack that deals sneak attack damage.

To count as a "worthy opponent," a creature must have a number of hit dice equal to or greater than half the rogue's character level.

While he has at least 1 point in his cunning pool, a rogue adds half his level to all initiative rolls (minimum +1).

Panache (Rogue Archetype)

Some rogues are dashing and charming, relying on their charisma to carry them successfully through life when others rely on their wits. This ability replaces the cunning pool ability and modifies a number of rogue talents. Panache functions just the same as a cunning pool, save that it is based on Charisma instead of Intelligence. All references to a cunning pool refer instead to the rogue's panache pool. Save DCs and benefits for all rogue talents that rely on Intelligence instead rely on Charisma for a panache rogue.

Modifications to the Core Class:

Combine the rogue's list of talents and advanced talents with the ninja's list of tricks and master tricks. The full list of available rogue talents is as follows.

Unchanged Talents/Tricks (* indicates ninja trick):

Befuddling Strike
Black Market Connections
Bleeding Attack
Choking Bomb*
Coax Information
Combat Trick
Cunning Trigger
Deflect Arrows*
Distracting Attack
Fast Getaway
Fast Picks
Fast Stealth
Finesse Rogue
Firearm Training
Flurry of Stars*
Follow Clues
Getaway Artist
Guileful Polyglot
Hidden Weapons
Iron Guts
Major Magic
Minor Magic
Offensive Defense
Poison Bomb*
Pressure Points*
Quick Disable
Quick Disguise
Rogue Crawl
Rope Master
Slow Metabolism*
Slow Reactions
Snap Shot
Snatch Arrows*
Strong Impression
Style Master*
Surprise Attack
Swift Poison
Terrain Mastery
Trap Spotter
Weapon Training

Unchanged Advanced Talents/Tricks (* indicates ninja trick):

Confounding Blades
Crippling Strike
Deadly Cocktail
Dispelling Attack
Entanglement of Blades
Feat
Getaway Master
Improved Evasion
Opportunist
Skill Mastery

Removed Talents/Tricks (* indicates ninja trick):

Canny Observer
Charmer
Combat Swipe
Convincing Lie
Deft Palm
False Friend
Fast Fingers
Feather Fall
Forgotten Trick*
Hold Breath
Honeyed Words
Ki Pool
Lasting Poison
Ledge Walker
Obfuscate Story
Peerless Maneuver
Powerful Sneak
Quick Trapsmith
Strong Stroke
Survivalist
Wall Climber

Removed Advanced Talents/Tricks (* indicates ninja trick):

Advanced Talent
Deadly Shuriken*
Deadly Sneak
Hard to Fool
Master Disguise*
Rumormonger
Thoughtful Reexamining

Changed Talents (* indicates ninja trick):

Acrobatic Master* (Ex): If a rogue fails to beat an opponent's CMD when making an Acrobatics check to avoid an attack of opportunity, the rogue may use his Acrobatics check result in place of his Armor Class against that attack, if it is better. This ability may be used once per round without paying any cunning; each use after the first costs 1 point from the rogue's cunning pool.

Assault Leader (Ex): As an immediate action when the rogue misses with an attack on a flanked opponent, she can designate a single ally who is also flanking the target that her attack missed. That ally can make a single melee attack against the opponent as an immediate action. Using this ability costs 1 point of cunning. The rogue must be at least 6th level to select this ability.

Camouflage (Ex): A rogue with this talent can craft simple but effective camouflage from the surrounding foliage. The rogue needs 1 minute to prepare the camouflage, but once she does, it is good for the rest of the day or until the wearer fails a saving throw against an area effect spell that deals fire, cold, or acid damage, whichever comes first. The wearer gains a +4 bonus on Stealth checks while within terrain that matches the foliage used to make the camouflage. This ability cannot be used in areas without natural foliage. When the rogue uses this ability, he may prepare camouflage for himself plus one additional ally per three levels. Activating this ability costs one point of cunning.

Cat Burglar (Ex): A rogue with this talent retains her Dexterity bonus to AC while climbing and using the Acrobatics skill to balance on a narrow surface. She also moves at his full speed while using the Acrobatics skill in this manner without penalty.

Darkvision* (Su): A rogue with this talent has learned to use his connection to shadows to see in complete darkness. Activating this ability is a standard action that costs 1 point of cunning. For one hour, the rogue gains darkvision to a range of 60'. A rogue must have the shadow magic talent to select this ability.

Esoteric Scholar (Ex): A rogue with this talent has picked up a bit of knowledge on a variety of subjects. He many roll Knowledge checks untrained. If he spends 1 point of cunning, he may add half his rogue level to an untrained Knowledge check.

Expert Leaper (Ex): When making jump checks, the rogue is always considered to have a running start as long as he has at least 1 point of cunning. When falling, the rogue may always make an Acrobatics check to reduce the damage, as if falling deliberately. A DC 15 Acrobatics check reduces the falling damage by 1d6, and by an additional 1d6 for every three points over 15.

Fast Tumble (Ex): As the advanced talent, except it's not an advanced talent.

Frugal Trapsmith (Ex): As the advanced talent, except it's not an advanced talent.

Grit (Ex): A rogue with this talent may choose one 1st level deed from the list of gunslinger deeds and one grit feat that he qualifies for. He may spend cunning to activate these abilities as though he were spending grit. A rogue must have Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearms) to select this talent.

High Jumper (Ex): When a rogue with this talent makes a high jump, the DC for that jump is half the normal DC. The rogue must have the expert leaper talent before selecting this one.

Improvised Trick* (Ex): A rogue with this ability excels at improvisation. As a standard action, she may spend 2 cunning and select any rogue talent that she qualifies for (though not an advanced talent). She gains that talent for a number of rounds equal to her level. If the chosen ability costs cunning, she must pay all normal costs associated with it.

Ki Block* (Su): A rogue with this talent has learned to combine her studies of ki with her knowledge of vital strikes to prevent a target from using its own ki pool. When she damages a target with a sneak attack, they must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 her rogue level + her Intelligence modifier). If they fail, they cannot spend ki points for a number of rounds equal to the rogue's Intelligence modifier. Their ki pool total does not change, and they can use abilities that do not require the subject to spend ki still function. A rogue must have the ki breakthrough talent to select this talent.

Positioning Attack (Ex): When a rogue with this talent hits a creature with a melee attack, she can move up to 30 feet without provoking attacks of opportunity. The movement must end in a space adjacent to the creature hit with the melee attack. Activating this ability is an immediate action that costs 1 point of cunning.

Resiliency (Ex): As an immediate action, a rogue with this ability can gain a number of temporary hit points equal to his level. This ability can only be activated when she is brought below 0 hit points. This ability can be used to prevent her from dying. These temporary hit points last for 1 minute, and this ability cannot be used again during that time. If the rogue's hit points drop below 0 due to the loss of these temporary hit points, she falls unconscious and is dying as normal. Activating this ability costs 1 cunning.

See the Unseen* (Su): A rogue with this talent learns how to see invisible creatures through his connection to shadows. As a swift action, the rogue can cast see invisibility, using his level as the caster level. Each use of this ability costs 1 cunning. A rogue must have the shadow magic talent to select this ability.

Shadow Clone* (Su): The rogue has learned to create shadowy duplicates of himself to confuse attackers. This functions as a mirror image spell with a caster level equal to the rogue's level. Using this ability is a standard action that costs 1 point of cunning. The rogue must have the shadow magic talent to learn this ability.

Smoke Bomb* (Ex): This ability allows a rogue to throw a smoke bomb that creates a cloud of smoke with a 15-foot radius. This acts like the smoke from a smokestick. The rogue can center this smoke on herself, or throw the bomb as a ranged touch attack with a range of 20 feet. Using this ability is a standard action. Each use of this ability costs 1 point of cunning.

Sniper's Eye (Ex): A rogue with this talent increases the range at which he can apply sneak attack damage with a ranged attack by 30', and may apply his sneak attack damage on ranged attacks to targets within this distance that currently have concealment. Foes with total concealment are still immune.
Special: If this rogue has other talents that can only be used within 30', the range for those abilities is also increased by 30'.

Stand Up (Ex): A rogue with this ability can stand up from a prone position as a free action. She may make an Acrobatics check to avoid the attack of opportunity this provokes with a bonus to the roll equal to 1/2 her rogue level. The DC of this check is equal to her opponent's CMD.

Stealthy Sniper (Ex): As the advanced talent, except it isn't an advanced talent.

Underhanded (Ex): A rogue with this talent gains a +4 circumstance bonus on all Sleight of Hand checks made to conceal a weapon. Furthermore, if she makes a sneak attack during the surprise round using a concealed weapon that her opponent didn't know about, she may spend 1 cunning. If she does so, all sneak attack damage she deals against that target during the surprise round is increased by 50% (count up the sneak attack dice and multiply by 1.5).

Unwitting Ally (Ex): A rogue with this talent can spend a swift action and 1 cunning to attempt to make an opponent act like an ally for purposes of providing a flank until the beginning of the rogue’s next turn. The opponent must be able to hear and see the rogue, and the rogue must succeed at a Bluff check opposed by the opponent’s Sense Motive. If the check succeeds, the opponent acts as an ally for the purpose of providing a flank. Whether or not the check succeeds, the rogue cannot use this trick again on the same opponent for the next 24 hours. If the rogue fails the check by 5 or more, she cannot use the unwitting ally ability on any opponent within line of sight of the failed attempt for 24 hours.

Wall Scramble* (Ex): A rogue with this talent has learned to climb with astonishing speed and grace when necessary. As a swift action, he may spend 1 cunning to gain a climb speed equal to two-thirds of his base speed (rounded to the nearest 5' increment - 20' for a creature with a 30' speed and 15' for a creature with a 20' speed). This lasts for one minute per level. To select this talent, a rogue must have skill focus (climb) or skill adept (climb).

Weapon Snatcher (Ex): As the advanced talent, except it isn't an advanced talent.

Changed Advanced Talents:

Another Day (Ex): When the rogue would be reduced to 0 or fewer hit points by a melee attack, she can take a 5-foot step as an immediate action that costs 2 points of cunning. If this movement takes her out of the reach of the attack, she takes no damage from the attack. The rogue is staggered for 1 round on her next turn.

Assassinate* (Ex): A rogue with this advanced talent can kill foes that are unable to defend themselves. To attempt to assassinate a target, the rogue must first study her target for 1 round as a standard action and spend 2 cunning. On the following round, if the rogue makes a sneak attack against the target and the target is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC, the sneak attack has the additional effect of possibly killing the target. This attempt automatically fails if the target recognizes the rogue as an enemy. If the sneak attack is successful and the target of the attack fails a Fortitude save, it dies. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the rogue's level + the rogue's Intelligence modifier. If the save is successful, the target still takes the sneak attack damage as normal, but it is immune to that rogue's assassinate ability for 1 day.

Blinding Bomb* (Ex): Whenever the rogue throws a smoke bomb, all living creatures in the cloud must make a Fortitude save or be blinded by the black smoke for 1d4 rounds. The DC of this save is 10 + 1/2 the rogue's level + the rogue's Intelligence modifier. This talent cannot be combined with a choking bomb, but the rogue can combine a choking bomb with a poison bomb. The rogue must have the choking bomb talent before selecting this ability.

Defensive Roll (Ex): With this advanced talent, the rogue can roll with a potentially lethal blow to take less damage from it than she otherwise would. When she would be reduced to 0 or fewer hit points by damage in combat (from a weapon or other blow, not a spell or special ability), the rogue can attempt to roll with the damage. To use this ability, the rogue must attempt a Reflex saving throw (DC = damage dealt). If the save succeeds, she takes only half damage from the blow; if it fails, she takes full damage. She must be aware of the attack and able to react to it in order to execute her defensive roll—if she is denied her Dexterity bonus to AC, she can't use this ability. Since this effect would not normally allow a character to make a Reflex save for half damage, the rogue's evasion ability does not apply to the defensive roll. Activating this ability reduces the rogue's cunning pool to 0; she must have at least 2 cunning available to use this ability.

Ghost Step* (Su): As a swift action, a rogue with this talent can pass through walls as if he were a ghost. Until the end of his turn, he can pass through walls or other surfaces that are up to 5 feet thick per level as if he were incorporeal. He must exit solid material by the end of his turn, or be thrust out violently into the nearest open space, suffering 1d6 points of damage per 5 feet that he travels this way. Activating this ability costs 2 cunning. A rogue must have the shadow magic talent to select this ability.

Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): This functions as the assassin ability of the same name. The rogue must have one of this following talents to select this ability: favored terrain, shadow magic, skill adept (stealth), or skill focus (stealth). If the rogue has the favored terrain talent but none of the other talents listed, this ability functions only in his favored terrain. This is an advanced talent.

Hunter's Surprise (Ex): As a swift action that costs 2 points of cunning, a rogue with this talent can designate a single enemy within 30' as her prey. Until the end of her next turn, she can add her sneak attack damage to all attacks made against her prey, even if she is not flanking it or it is not denied its Dexterity bonus against her. While this power is in effect, she does not regain cunning by dropping the target with an attack that causes sneak attack damage.
Special: If the rogue has the Sniper's Eye or Improved Sniper's Eye talents, the range of this ability is increased to 60' or 90', respectively.

Invisible Blade* (Su): This rogue is a student of the deepest mysteries of shadow magic. Whenever she uses the shadow magic talent, she is treated as if she were under the effects of greater invisibility. The rogue must have the shadow magic talent before selecting this advanced talent.

Knock-Out Blow (Ex): As part of an attack, the rogue may spend 2 cunning and forgo his sneak attack damage to attempt to knock out an opponent. He must declare the use of knock-out blow before he makes the attack. If the attack hits, it does normal damage, but instead of dealing sneak attack damage (and instead of any effect that triggers when the rogue deals sneak attack damage), the target falls unconscious for 1d4 rounds. A successful Fortitude save reduces this effect to staggered for 1 round. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the rogue's level + the rogue's Intelligence modifier.

Master of Disguise (Su): A rogue with this talent can take on the appearance of other creatures and individuals. Whenever the rogue uses the many faces talent, the duration increases to 10 minutes per level. Alternatively, the rogue can use the many faces talent to take on the appearance of a specific individual that the rogue has seen before for 1 minute per level. Creatures that are familiar with the individual receive a Will saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 the rogue's level + the rogue's Intelligence modifier) to see through the illusion. This illusion also changes the rogue's speech, if she has heard the individual talk and can speak his language. The rogue must have the many faces talent before selecting this talent.

Redirect Attack (Ex): When a rogue with this talent is hit with a melee attack, she can spend 2 cunning as an immediate action to redirect the attack to strike at an adjacent creature. The creature targeted must be within melee reach of the attack that hit the rogue, and the creature that made the attack against the rogue must make a new attack roll against the new target.

Shadow Split* (Su): This talent allows the rogue to create an illusory double of herself that moves away from her, allowing the rogue to create a distraction. When she uses this ability, an illusory double appears and moves away from the rogue, heading in one direction. The double climbs walls, jumps pits, or simply passes through obstacles, moving at twice the rogue’s speed in the direction indicated by the rogue when the ability is used. Its course cannot be changed. The double persists for 1 round per level of the rogue. Those who interact with the double receive a Will saving throw to recognize that it is fake. The DC of this save is 10 + 1/2 the rogue’s level + the rogue’s Intelligence modifier. Each use of this ability costs 1 cunning. The rogue must possess the shadow clone rogue talent before selecting this talent.

Slippery Mind (Ex): A rogue with this talent is adept at escaping mind-affecting effects. At the start of her turn, if she is still subject to any mind-affecting spells or effects, she can make a Will saving throw with a standard DC for the effect’s level, and if she succeeds at the check, she is no longer subject to the mind-affecting effect. She can make this saving throw even against mind-affecting effects that normally don’t allow a saving throw. In those cases, generate the saving throw as if the spell or effect did allow a saving throw.

Unarmed Combat Mastery* (Ex): A rogue with this talent deals damage with his unarmed strikes as if she were a monk of her rogue level - 4. If the rogue has levels in monk, this ability stacks with monk levels to determine how much damage he deals with his unarmed strikes. A rogue must have the Improved Unarmed Strike feat before selecting this talent.

Unbound Steps* (Su): This rogue has taken his ability to walk across surfaces to a supernatural level. When this rogue uses the light steps talent, he can walk on air, rising or descending as he desires. He must end his move on a solid surface. Each use of this ability costs 1 cunning. A rogue must have the light steps talent to select this ability.

New Talents:

Acrobatic Maneuver (Ex): A rogue with this talent selects one of the following combat maneuvers: bull rush, dirty trick, disarm, drag, feint, overrun, reposition, steal, or trip. The rogue may roll an Acrobatics check in place of a combat maneuver check when attempting to use that particular combat maneuver. Bonuses to that combat maneuver (such as the bonus from maneuver-related feats) apply to this check. Otherwise, this is resolves as a normal combat maneuver. A rogue must have skill focus or skill adept in Acrobatics to select this talent. A rogue may take this talent more than once, selecting a new combat maneuver each time.

Acquired Immunity (Ex): A rogue with this talent has acquired immunity to a small group of poisons. When he selects this talent, he chooses a number of different specific poisons equal to his Constitution modifier that he has been exposed to at least once. He is immune to these poisons. Once these poisons have been selected, they may not be changed. The rogue must have the poison resistance talent or the great fortitude feat to select this talent.

Bully (Ex): A rogue with this talent is adept at fighting foes too frightened to defend themselves properly. He may roll sneak attack damage against any enemy suffering from a fear condition (shaken, frightened, or panicked).

Confounding Movement (Ex): If a rogue starts his turn adjacent to an enemy and moves to a position where he would have a flank with his starting position, he is considered to be flanking that opponent until the end of his turn.

Cunning Defense (Ex): As an immediate action, a rogue with this talent may gain a circumstance bonus to his AC and CMD equal to his Intelligence modifier until the beginning of his next turn. Activating this ability costs 1 point from his cunning pool.

Cunning Maneuver (Ex): As a swift action that costs 1 point of cunning, this rogue may gain a circumstance bonus to his CMB and on Bluff checks made to feint equal to his Intelligence modifier until the end of his turn.

Cunning Resistance (Ex): As an immediate action, this rogue gains a circumstance bonus to saving throws equal to her Intelligence modifier until the beginning of her next turn. Activating this ability costs 1 point from her cunning pool.

Deadly Strike (Ex): A rogue with this talent has learned to make his strikes count and his luck work for him. As an immediate action after rolling damage for an attack that dealt sneak attack damage, he may spend 1 cunning to reroll all the damage dice for that attack. He must take this second roll, even if it is lower than the first.

Defensive Focus (Ex): When fighting defensively, a rogue with this talent gains an additional +1 dodge bonus to AC. When using the total defense action, he gains an additional +2 dodge bonus to AC. When using the Combat Expertise feat, he increases the dodge bonus granted by that feat by 50%, to a minimum of a +1 increase.

Extraordinary Cunning (Ex): Rogues with this talent increase their maximum and daily starting cunning by 1.

Extraordinary Reflexes (Ex): Once per round as an immediate action, a rogue with this talent may spend 1 cunning to make a number of extra attacks of opportunity in this round equal to his Intelligence bonus.

Find Weakness (Ex): A rogue with this talent has learned to study his opponents, allowing him to strike where they are weakest. Activating this ability is a standard action that costs 1 cunning. The rogue chooses a creature within 30' he can see and that does not have concealment or total concealment against him, and chooses one of the following bonus types: armor, circumstance, cover, deflection, dodge, insight, natural armor, profane, sacred, shield, or size. The rogue makes a Perception or Sense Motive check against the target' creature's CMD. If successful, his attacks and combat maneuvers ignore any AC bonus of the selected type that the target has for 1d4+1 rounds. In order to select this talent, the rogue must have skill focus or skill adept in either Perception or Sense Motive.

Fleet Escape (Ex): For some rogues, running away from pursuers is a smarter option than staying to fight. This character is practiced at escaping from foes, and knows the best way to avoid just about any obstacle while moving quickly. The rogue gains a +4 bonus on all rolls to navigate obstacles during a chase.

Flurry of Steel (Ex): When making a full attack, a rogue with this talent may spend 1 point of cunning to gain an extra attack with one of his weapons at his highest attack bonus. All attacks the rogue makes this turn suffer a -2 penalty. This ability does not stack with itself, or other effects that grant an extra attack, such as haste.

Greater Maneuver (Ex): A rogue with this talent gains one of the following feats, chosen when this talent is taken: Greater Dirty Trick, Greater Disarm, Greater Feint, Greater Reposition, Greater Steal, or Greater Trip. In order to select one of these feats, the rogue must have the equivalent improved maneuver feat (Improved Disarm to select Greater Disarm, for example). A rogue must be at least 6th level to select this talent.

Improved Maneuver (Ex): A rogue with this talent gains one of the following feats, chosen when this talent is taken: Improved Dirty Trick, Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Improved Reposition, Improved Steal, or Improved Trip. He does not have to fulfill the prerequisites to select this feat.

Improved Sniper's Eye (Ex): A rogue with this talent may make sneak attacks at a range of up to 90'. A rogue must have the Sniper's Eye talent to select this ability.

Ki Breakthrough (Ex): You have learned to meld your understanding of ki with your rogue cunning. Your rogue levels stack with levels in the class that grants the ki pool ability to determine your maximum ki pool. You may use your Intelligence modifier instead of the ability score used by the other class to determine the number of ki points in your ki pool if you choose, though that choice must be made when this talent is gained. You must have the ki pool ability from another class to select this talent.

Light Steps (Ex): A rogue with this talent has learned to move while barely touching the surface she is crossing. As a full-round action, she can move up to twice her speed, ignoring difficult terrain. While moving in this way, any surface will support her, no matter how much she weighs. This allows her to cross water, lava, or even the thinnest tree branches. Movement made this way leaves no tracks. She must end her move on a surface that can support her normally. She cannot move across air in this way, nor can she walk up walls or other vertical surfaces. When moving in this way, she does not take damage from surfaces or hazards that react to being touched, such as lava or caltrops, nor does she need to make Acrobatics checks to avoid falling on slippery or rough surfaces. Finally, when using light steps, the rogue ignores any mechanical traps that use a location-based trigger. The rogue must have at least 1 cunning in his pool to use this ability.

Low-Light Vision (Ex): A rogue with this talent has improved his ability to see in the dark. He gains low-light vision, as the racial ability of the same name.

Many Faces (Su): A rogue with this talent has learned to magically alter his features. As a standard action that costs 1 cunning, he may cast disguise self with a duration of one minute per level. He must have the minor magic or shadow magic talent to select this ability.

No Trace (Ex): This rogue has learned to minimize the tracks he leaves behind. The DC of all Survival checks made to track him increases by his rogue level. If he moves at half speed, the rogue can apply this modifier to the tracks of a group of individuals nearby, up to one additional person per level.

Poison Resistance (Ex): A rogue with this talent gains a +2 bonus on all saves against poison. At 5th level, this bonus increases to +4. At 8th level, it increases to +6.

Poison Use (Ex): A rogue with this talent cannot accidentally poison herself when applying poison to a weapon.

Quick Footwork (Ex): As a swift action, the rogue may spend 1 point of cunning to take a 5-foot step, even if he has already moved or taken a 5-foot step this turn. Using this ability does not prevent the rogue from taking a move action later in the turn. Otherwise, this movement follows all the normal rules for a 5-foot step.

Quick Glance (Ex): A rogue with this talent can notice things with just a glance. It is a swift action for him to examine an area in detail or search for stimulus with the Perception skill, rather than a move action.

Quick Reaction (Ex): A rogue with this talent may spend 1 point cunning at the beginning of his turn on a surprise round to take both a move action and a standard action, rather than just a standard action, as is normally allowed in a surprise round.

Scentbreaker Bomb (Ex): A rogue with this talent has learned to mix in noxious chemicals into his bombs that interfere with the scent ability. Any creature with the scent ability that enters a rogue's smoke cloud must make a Fortitude save or become sickened for one round and lose the benefit of the scent ability for one hour. If it succeeds at the save, the creature loses scent for one minute. A rogue must have the smoke bomb talent to select this ability.

Scrounger (Ex): A rogue with this talent has learned to survive in the toughest environments and with improvised or broken tools. He may add his Intelligence modifier to Survival checks, in addition to his Wisdom modifier. He reduces all penalties he would take from not having appropriate tools on a skill check by half, rounded down. As a swift action that costs 1 cunning, he may treat an item with the broken condition as though it were not broken for one minute per level.

Secretive (Su): This rogue has gained magical assistance in protecting himself from divinations, perhaps through a little-known ritual or a pact with otherworldly beings. He gains spell resistance 10 + his level against any spells or effects of the divination school. This applies whenever a divination effect would provide information about him, even if the spell is not normally subject to spell resistance (such as the divination spell or contact other plane). Additionally, the DC of all Diplomacy checks made to gather information about this rogue increase by his rogue level.

Shadow Magic (Su): A rogue with this talent has started to learn the mysterious rogue art of shadow magic. As a swift action, he may spend 1 cunning to become invisible, as the spell, for up to one round per level.

Silent Takedown (Ex): A rogue with this talent has learned to muffle the sounds of a surprise attack. If he spends 1 cunning when making an attack during a surprise round and reduces the target to 0 hit points or fewer, he may make a Stealth check opposed by the Perception check of nearby enemies that do not have line of sight to him. If he succeeds, the target was eliminated quietly and nearby enemies are not alerted. If he fails the Stealth check or does not eliminate the target in one round, the rogue makes enough noise that nearby enemies are alerted to the sounds of combat as normal.

Skill Adept (Ex): When a rogue chooses this talent, he selects a class skill. Whenever a roll for that skill is made he may spend 1 point of cunning to roll two dice and take the better result. A rogue may select this talent multiple times, selecting a different skill each time. A rogue must be at least 4th level to select this talent.

Skill Focus (Ex): When a rogue selects this talent, he gains the Skill Focus feat in any one class skill. A rogue may select this talent multiple times, choosing a different skill each time.

Skill Training (Ex): When a rogue selects this talent, he selects two skills that are not currently class skills. They become class skills for the rogue. This talent may be taken more than once, selecting two new class skills each time.

Sticky Poison (Ex): When the rogue applies poison to a weapon, he may spend 1 point of cunning as part of the action of applying the poison. The weapon remains poisoned for a number of strikes equal to the rogue's Intelligence modifier. A rogue must be at least 6th level and have the poison use talent to select this ability.

Strike at Weakness (Ex): Any opponent within reach that rolls a natural 1 on an attack roll provokes an attack of opportunity from this rogue.

Team Player (Ex): As a swift action, the rogue may choose an ally within line of sight that possesses at least one teamwork feat. For one minute, the rogue gains the benefits of a single teamwork feat that ally has, chosen when this ability is used. He may only gain one feat at a time when using this ability. Activating this ability costs 1 point of cunning.

Trapfinding (Ex): This functions as the rogue class ability of the same name. Selecting this talent allows rogues with an archetype that trades it out access to this rogue ability.

Trapsmith (Ex): A rogue with this talent is trained at creating improvised traps. Select one extraordinary ranger trap. He may set this trap as a ranger, except the DC for the trap is 10 + 1/2 his rogue level + his Intelligence modifier - 2 (because of the extraordinary trap penalty). Creating this trap is a full-round action that provokes an attack of opportunity, and costs 1 cunning. A rogue must have the trapfinding special ability to select this talent.
Special: A rogue with the major magic talent or any spellcasting ability may select and create supernatural traps. A rogue may take this talent more than once, gaining a new trap known each time.

Two-Weapon Adept (Ex): While he has at least 1 point of cunning, this rogue reduces the penalty for fighting with two weapons or a double weapon by 1, on both his primary and off-hand weapons. A rogue must be at least 6th level and have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat to select this talent.

Vicious Ambush (Ex): This rogue has learned to attack from surprise with astonishing speed, catching his targets unawares. When performing a full attack action from stealth or invisibility against a target that would be denied its Dexterity bonus against the rogue's first attack, the target is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC against all the rogue's attacks for that action. Activating this ability is a swift action that costs 1 point of cunning. A rogue must be at least 6th level to select this talent.

New Advanced Talents:

Doublestrike (Ex): As a standard action, a rogue with this advanced talent may spend 1 cunning to make one melee attack with her primary weapon and one melee attack with her off-hand weapon with her full base attack bonus. She suffers the normal penalties for two-weapon fighting when using this ability.

Heart of Lies (Su): Whenever a rogue with this talent succeeds at a saving throw against a divination spell, or someone fails to penetrate his spell resistance from the secretive talent, he is immediately aware of this, and may attempt to provide false information. The caster must make a caster level check with a DC of 1d20 + the rogue's level + his Intelligence modifier. If the check fails, the false information is provided. If the check succeeds, no information is provided. Activating this ability is an immediate action that costs 1 cunning. A rogue must have the secretive talent before selecting this advanced talent.

Surprise Attack (Ex): A rogue with this talent may act normally in a surprise round - he is not limited to a standard action. This is an advanced talent.


I have a scenario in mind for something I'm writing, and wanted opinions on how it would work mechanically.

An imp has suggestion as a spell-like ability, and can get quite a good Stealth roll. Could this imp sneak into a sleeping person's bedroom and use suggestion on a target without waking them up? Being asleep doesn't affect whether or not they get a save, but is that enough to wake the target up?

The way I'm picturing it right now, the imp would have to make a Stealth roll vs the sleeping target's Perception check. Probably easy money, since as I've written the imp up he's got something like a +14 Stealth check (he's got a couple of class levels), and you get a -10 penalty to Perception checks while you're asleep. It casts suggestion as a SLA, meaning it's done silently and without any detectable components. The imp has telepathy, so it doesn't have to reveal itself using speech - it can communicate the suggestion to the target and be mostly undetectable at the same time. Target gets a Will save. If it fails, the imp whispers the suggestion into the sleeping target's mind and leaves, content that it will be remembered in the morning and acted upon. If the save succeeds... I'm not sure what happens.

A corollary question - does the caster of a suggestion know before he says anything that it's worked? I can certainly see an argument that having someone talk to you telepathically would wake you up, but if the suggestion save was successful, does the imp still have to say something? Or are they essentially the same action, and you do them both at the same time?

How would you adjudicate this situation?