It doesn't always work, but I've found that I generally get what I give. I've done my share of both retail and customer service, and I'm well aware that the pittance these folks typically make isn't enough to make it worth giving a damn. That said, if they can't simulate giving a damn, they're also limiting their own opportunities. But that's a different topic. Sometimes, just being friendly is all it takes. My favorite example is airline employees. I can't believe how many times I've watched frustrated consumers take it out on the gate agents when a delay is due to weather. I flew several weeks ago when the airline's computer system was completely down during my checkin/boarding. I do IT support - I know computers are imperfect. And I know the guy standing in front of me isn't the one who broke it, or the one fixing it. I also know that waiting patiently for my turn and having a kind word for the gate agent got my daughter and I free business class upgrades. Having said all that, I have my limits. During my last DSL hookup at the house, I spent over 3 hours on the phone trying to persuade the guy on the other end to tell me what my default password for the new account was, so I could connect. By the end of that conversation, I was done being polite.
Psychic_Robot wrote: Then I come up to make my argument. "Latveristanians, we've got a problem. It is written into the law that people can do X, Y, and Z, which is causing the food shortage. We need to enact legislation that will change X, Y, and Z so that this sort of abuse can't happen in the future. Otherwise, even if everyone decides not to use X, Y, and Z, it will still be legal, and someone will start doing it again in the future." Actually, you come up to make your argument and begin foaming at the mouth about how all the western Lavteristanians suck, bring nothing but epic fail to their lives, and should all die in a fire. Not sure you've picked up on this, but a significant number of people here haven't been willing to engage in your discussion, either with you or against you, simply because you lack the ability to conduct yourself with any degree of courtesy. Frankly, I don't care if you're the smartest person to ever pick up a D20, with an instinctual ability to generate perfectly balanced rules for any RPG through automatic writing - it still doesn't entitle you to come crashing into this community and spew bile on everyone who dares disagree with your ideas.
1. Everyone but me is causing an "ever-incoming tide of ignorance and fail."
Please, for the love of the game, stop making these arguments. In the spirit of these simple rules, the interactive nature of these boards will be removed. Instead, each board will turn into a read-only archive of such wisdom as I choose to bestow upon you.
ShadowChemosh wrote: I know many DMs have a problem with magic item shops, but it really is the easiest way to let players simply sell and buy what they want. Assuming your players can somewhat suspend disbelief, why not have each of them give you a list of 5-6 items they'd like to see for their characters? As the encounters permit, work an item or two from each list into the loot. I suggest a list of items much longer than what you'd ever plan to give out, just because the game world isn't McDonald's - players can't just place an order and wait. But I don't think it's too much of a stretch to at least provide something they're interested in once in a while - consider it karma. They're destroying evil; the game world rewards them for it. :)
GeraintElberion wrote: There is a selfish part of me that just thinks - Pathfinder Tome Of Horrors, please! Although the GSL does seem to eliminate the idea of selling OGL and 4E products at the same time, one option I've never seen mentioned is that Paizo could purchase an OGL produt line, lock, stock, and barrel from another publisher who wanted to move into 4E products. Obviously, I don't see Paizo doing that out of some desire to keep 3E alive, but it would seem to be a good way to keep products that they find critical in print - ToH is a good example.
Andre Caceres wrote:
Yeah, 3.75 makes a convenient shorthand, but over the long term, Paizo needs to get the Pathfinder, version 1.0, brand into people's heads...
dodo wrote: So do you skim this stuff? Look at the pretty pictures? Are you all speed readers? What's the deal? I pretty much filed the first AP, and most of the modules; I've been working on catching up with reading the second AP. I think it's time to let some other magazines lapse. Not sure it will help - I think I've still got the last issue or two of Dungeon to read, too...
Michael F wrote: My party just finished their battle with Nualia and her henchmen. But Orik and Lyrie got away together, and I'm wondering what they would do next. I'm not too clued in on the details of this situation as written - for some reason, I've read more CoCT than RoRL. With that said, though, I think the recurring villain/revenge idea works in general. However, it may be more of a surprise for your players if the NPCs view what amounts to wholesale slaughter of their allies as a life changing moment. Might be a clue they're on the wrong track. :) Somewhere down the road, slip them into an adventure living under different names, doing good works trying to make up for the sins of the past.
The Black Fox wrote: The surviving family members would notice the PCs had taken the items and take legal action. This is a far different situation than going into some dungeon in the wilderness, killing monsters and looting treasure. ...which could be a very interesting campaign of Barristers & Briefcases... Could be a good opportunity for a metagame reminder that this could effectively knock the rest of the Adventure Path off track...
Joela, does every thread you start have to reflect some sort of ongoing drama between Pathfinder and 4E? Is it possible to discuss Pathfinder on it's own merits without making it a popularity contest? Or even worse, trying to start crap between two different messageboards? I don't understand how many people miss the point that this isn't a black and white issue - 4E doesn't have to lose for Paizo to win. Paizo doesn't have to lose for 4E to win. Both companies have slightly different target markets. Where the markets overlap, it's not a problem, because people are allowed to buy and play more than one game. Is it possible to talk about Pathfinder on the Pathfinder board, or do we have to continually bring 4E into it? Do you periodically hit Macintosh-centered boards and stir up crap about Windows Vista, too?
vance wrote: And, if Al Qadim had failed to capture intrest, under my scheme, you've got one badly selling book... done, cut the loss. Under TSR's plan, you had an entire LINE of books and box sets that failed. Al Qadim may not be the best example. As I recall, it was originally conceived as a limited line, with a fixed lifespan and number of products, but based on popularity, it earned a few extra products beyond the plan. I may be mis-remembering, and I can't locate confirmation either way at the moment, though.
MonstermattXL wrote: almost none of you have played for as long as I have MonstermattXL wrote: or owned/purchased as many systems as I have. MonstermattXL wrote: most of you don't have the experience I have. MonstermattXL wrote: I don't want to offend anyone, MonstermattXL wrote: I don't think I am better than anyone else. Thank god you added those last two points. For some reason, I think a few people were misunderstanding the humble beginnings of your post. :) You may find that your comments are better received if you and your wisdom show up to talk WITH people rather than TO them.
Erik Mona wrote:
Can anyone who was involved in the playtest prior to the Pathfinder announcement confirm that this ability was or wasn't there? I'm not usually big on conspiracy theories, but if this was added or changed after the Paizo announcement, that is sort of lame.
veector wrote: In reality, the problems that are occurring right now are due to different people seeing the same game in different ways. Some players view roleplaying as playing a role vis-a-vis the other adventuring party members, much the same way a demolitions expert might play a role in a military special ops squad. In this instance, game balance amongst the roles in the adventuring party is key to making everyone feel integral to the team. Other players view roleplaying on the character-personality level, where every player in the game has chosen an alter-ego that suits their fantasy no matter what the composition of the party might be. A party could be made up of all half-orc barbarians who all have distinct personalities. Both visions of roleplaying are perfectly acceptable. I'm not sure both versions are mutually exclusive. Roleplaying has always attracted a variety of people with a variety of play styles - long before WoW was even an idea. Prior to 4E, there were still rather distinct roles, even if they weren't quite as formally defined as the current edition of the game has made them. Dungeon magazine typically assumed that a party covered the 4 basic roles - melee fighter, skill monkey, healer, arcane support - throughout the 3E period. I don't recall specific cases prior to that, but those same class niches existed in 1E and 2E. There have always been people who treat their character like the hat in Monopoly. There have always been people who give their king in chess a personality and motivations. WoW and 4E haven't done much to change that.
Terry Dyer wrote:
To me, this is the sort of product that the digital initiative should be producing - build an online wizard with half a dozen backgrounds/frames, and and ever expanding library of clip art objects that can be added, and the ability to enter whatever text you want, from a selection of fonts/styles. Build a personal card library, to print on cardstock whenever you feel the urge. I'd have a hard time coming up with a price for such an effort by itself, but it would probably be a compelling feature of an online subscription.
Bill Dunn wrote: Last I knew, a publisher had to participate in the ENnies by submitting works for consideration. WotC has elected to not participate in previous years. The year 4e is eligible for selection may be no different. WotC might not participate. ...and the only way to win is not to play at all...
This is fantastic. I broke down and ordered the 4E core books, because my potential gaming group here is burned out on 3E - if I want to play, it looks like 4E is the way to go. I still want to use my as-yet untouched collection of Pathfinder goodness. I started looking for 4E conversion notes yesterday and ran across this write up. Very well done, and much appreciated. Now I just have to find time to learn the 4E rules...
joela wrote: Many have implied, or outright declared, Paizo's making a big mistake and will either 1) eventually switch to producting 4E material or 2) will collapse. Posters suggest that the company leadership does not know what it's doing, too stubborn to acknowledge the inevitable, or is taking too great a risk for its own good. I'm sure Lisa and the rest of the Paizo crew are making every effort to run the business in a way that makes all the message board strategists happy. :) If we find ourselves in 2010 and Pathfinder hasn't found the success that it appears to be building, of course Paizo will switch to 4E, or whatever other profitable options are available at the time. For all we know, by that point Paizo or another publisher may have come up with optional rules that make Paizo-style adventures and play a better fit for 4E, and they'll start publishing dual stat products. Paizo going with Pathfinder isn't due to blind religious edition fervor - it's a carefully thought out business decision. If the business factors underlying the decision change, the Paizo crew is more than smart enough to adjust the sails.
Golbez57 wrote:
Didn't Arcana Unearthed do something with normal, lesser, greater spells? It's been a long time, and I'm not quite sure what happened to my books - they may have gone away with my 3.0 stuff - but I do remember thinking the arrangement was fairly elegant at the time. Similarly, instead of Magic Circle Against Evil, make it Magic Circle, with the option to specify Evil/Good/Law/Chaos at preparation and/or cast time... Spells, like feats, are an area where it's great to have choices, but some consistency in naming, and some logical reduction in repetition, can go a long way toward streamlining table time.
TwiceBorn wrote:
Completely agree. His voice takes me along for the ride. Just saw the live performance of Crimson Idol a few months back. It's almost a shame that W.A.S.P. became so notorious for being over the top - that really overshadowed the fact that there's some good music there. TwiceBorn wrote:
Yeah, I grew up without MTV. I made the mistake of surfing YouTube a while back and watched a few of the W.A.S.P. video rips... About the most charitable thing I can say is that the videos lack the inspiration and vision that was behind the original song...
Shadowdweller wrote:
Because turning the fighter into a variant ToB subclass may be too big a step away from 3E/OGL backward compatibility, which is a primary design goal for Pathfinder?
delabarre wrote:
This was the source of some discussion at the time - you aren't the first person to raise the question. As a legacy Dragon subscriber, I'm getting almost the first 3 APs free - I'd just re-upped Dragon and Dungeon for 3 years about 15 minutes before the cancellation announcement. Despite this, I ordered a Pathfinder AP subscription on my credit card, to take effect as soon as my transition credit runs out. I'm sorry your transition wasn't as smooth.
Steerpike7 wrote:
If you want to go that route, I'd suggest keeping them binary - either alive or dead. A 14hp attack does nothing; a 15hp attack kills them. I wouldn't expect 1hp/lvl to produce wildly different outcomes than 1hp, in all honesty. Might be more trouble than it's worth.
Wicht wrote:
The other point that seems to get overlooked here is that initial sales of the core books are emphatically NOT indicative of the success or failure of 4E. There are going to be people who buy the core books just to take a look, and then drop it like a bad habit. Wait 6 months and look at sales of subsequent products - adventures, expansions, campaign settings, etc. Then, and only then, can we really see how 4E is doing.
Teiran wrote:
When I lived in VA, I had a twice a month game at the local FLGS. For the period of years I lived there, I bought pretty much all my stuff from them at cover price. I felt the extra few bucks for the books and the profit margin on the coke/candy machines was a fair trade for the use of the gaming space. Most of my group did the same thing. I've been in Dallas for about a year now, and I don't have an ongoing game. I haven't even looked for an FLGS. So, I subscribed to Pathfinder, and every now and then I grab a new book from Amazon. I don't believe FLGS should be supported just because they exist; I'll pay for value. As others have said, the book is the same regardless of where I buy it. What else is part of the transaction?
DmRrostarr wrote: Level one PCs SHOULD be fragile at first level. They are starting their adventuring career and are no better than a level one NPC class person. I don't think that level one PCs should be supermen or anything, but one thing I've noticed just in this thread - giving a small amount of bonus HP, regardless of the exact mechanic, encouraged players to treat the PC as a heroic adventurer type and take a few risks. From a real-world/common sense standpoint, a more conservative approach makes more sense, but if you're trying to get a more fantasy literature feel, the farm boy does need to be encouraged to leap a pit every now and then. Looking at it from outside the world for a minute, as a player, I don't particularly enjoy spending 3/4 of the 1st level combat laying on the ground, with my action each round being a stabilization roll. If I make a bad decision and get cut down, that's one thing, but I'm not a fan of the situation where losing an initiative roll has a 70% chance of putting me down before I can even act.
Sebastian wrote: The fact that an apparent majority of Paizo's customers preferred sticking with a 3e variant was definitely a reason for them putting out the Pathfinder RPG, but, I can't believe that it was the attacks on 4e that made the difference. I'd also think that the choice of A) producing products for an out of print game, B) producing nothing due to the lack of GSL & rules, or C) buy time with a re-branded, patched open rule set, combined with the support of the customer base, made it an easier decision. I don't think the flamefest around here helped at all.
Aristodeimos wrote: However, with roughly 56% of their customers saying they aren't switching (and an additional 18% undecided), it may not be better for the health of Paizo. Assuming that this number is derived from the messageboard posts, keep in mind that the replies to that thread are a self-selected sample, and are not necessarily indicative of the entire customer base. I'd be shocked if even 10% of Paizo's customers have even visited the boards, let alone answered one specific thread.
Dragon Snack wrote: The surprise that it drew the most vehemnet proponents of both sides and that there were resulting 'problems' is what perplexes me. I think the surprise comes in when a small portion of the normally civil, well-mannered Paizo community suddenly turns into snarling, rabid beasts...
Blackdragon wrote: I'm not saying it give people a right to be insulting, inflamitory, or cruel. What I am saying is it is human nature that we you feel cornered or threatened to lash out. People make the assumption that everyone has the exact same coping mechanisims to deal with stress and anger. They don't. You also can't assume that everyone will function at the same level of articulate speech and be able to convey their thoughts without giving in to rage. I'm not condoning it, but the behavious not surprising. You may say you're not condoning it, but you've spent several posts trying to justify it. If people are unable to write a post about a GAME on an internet messageboard without "giving in to rage," I'd suggest that people have a serious anger management issue. Rage? Come on. There are many things in life that are worthy of working yourself into a froth over, but at the end of the day, this is a game. Disappointment, I'd understand. Concern, sure. Being somewhat upset, fine. Rage, to the point where it's impossible to carry on a civil conversation?
Dragon Snack wrote: They seriously underestimated what would happen when they tried to play both sides of the fence with 4.0. I don't know that anyone is "playing both sides" as much as Paizo doesn't currently have enough data to make the call either way. Until they see the GSL, a rational business decision can't be made. I think it's actually a good thing that customer input has been solicited - at the very least, it provides an additional (admittedly self-selected) data point to weigh. No one intended the boards to become a battleground - that's a side effect of going from "You'll have the GSL/rules any minute now" in January to sitting here in March empty-handed. Without anything concrete, no decisions can be made, so all that's left is to argue, with increasing volume and rancor.
I was going to post and ask why I got two packages from Paizo instead of one combined shipping package while I was out of town Wed-Fri. However, when I looked at my order history, I realized that I received my 2/26 order and my 3/11 order either Wednesday or Thursday, so they arrived at worst within a day of each other... Not sure if I should appreciate how quickly the second order got here, or be annoyed at the delay in delivering the first. Either way, not Paizo's problem, just weird...
AZRogue wrote: They've clarified that only one Mark can be on a creature at a time. Any new Mark takes the place--overwrites--the old Mark, no matter who did it. Also, they clarified that you could, indeed, Mark your party members but then the WotC guy described why it would be a horrible move. So we're like 5 pages and a couple of days into the rules and we already have clarifications and errata? Strong start. :)
Darkos wrote:
Good luck. It would really annoy me to have a player reading ahead. One of the major benefits of a published adventure is that I don't have to write it - rewriting huge chunks of it because he can't be trusted to screw up the fun for everyone is not what I signed up for. Since XP are allocated based on the challenge, it would seem that he's reading ahead and avoiding the challenge. So, no XP for him. :) Seriously, though, good luck with the conversation. Hopefully he'll come around to the idea that RPGs aren't about winning - it's not the end game, but the journey to get there.
Erik Mona wrote:
No. I'm not currently playing or running a game, so I'm not using my GameMastery or Pathfinder subscriptions. However, I hypothetically could, within the context of the rules/books I already own. Since I'm not currently playing, though, I don't see a reason to drop $100+ on a new edition. Erik Mona wrote:
I'll cancel Pathfinder/GameMastery. While I have no doubt of the quality of your potential 4e products, I simply won't be using 4e. Erik Mona wrote:
I've enjoyed reading the GameMaster/Pathfinder products I've gotten so far. Golarian is an appealing world. I expect to continue my subscription through the duration of my converted issues, obviously, and I'll finish whatever adventure path I expire in. At that point, I'll have to evaluate where my gaming is at; if I'm still not involved in a game, I'll have to reconsider my subscriptions.
The Real Troll wrote:
Nope. Just a realist. The Paizo messageboards aren't a representative sample of the market - they're a self-selected community based on a common interest in the types of product that Paizo produces. After 4.0 hits, anyone who elects to produce 3.5 products will be writing for a diminishing market - companies looking for long term survival can't focus entirely on something that will gradually cease to exist. Look how many players of red box/1E/2E still say, "I've got everything I need." Even if a sizable portion of the market doesn't immediately upgrade, nothing says they'll keep buying product. I've got no dog in this race; I'm not upgrading to 4E because I'm not currently playing. I just think it's a bad idea to underestimate the significance of WotC to the hobby as a whole.
DMcCoy1693 wrote:
...and if they don't sell any more RPGs, what's the reason to host games? Just another way to lose visibility to potential new players. RPG tables take up a lot of space, especially if they represent a market the store is no longer in. Space that could be better used to display TCG, comics, board games, manga, videos, and similar...
Takasi wrote:
It's not inconceivable that an evil house haunting spirit and a shiny, good paladin are somewhat incompatible. Would a haunt even want to manifest in front of a character that, from the haunt's perspective, is uncomfortable to be around?
hedgeknight wrote:
Considering that the rest of the "industry" can be lost in a rounding error on the WotC balance sheet, I hope WotC has a long and successful run, even if I'm not particularly looking forward to 4E and don't intend to invest in it myself. If WotC blows away on the wind, so do most of the (probably already struggling) FLGS's. Without WotC behind it, RPG distribution via the book channel probably disappears as well. So much for the face-time appeal of stores and newbie accessible gaming groups. D&D is still very much the 'gateway' game from what I've seen. Everyone has heard of it, and it makes a good entry point for the hobby. From there, people often branch out to other systems, but that first step is critical. And don't delude yourself - without WotC releasing more or less universal core rules, the indy market won't last long, either. Half Price Books and eBay don't have an infinite supply of the old editions, and casual new players aren't likely to spend two hours scouring the internet for a 7 year old PHB II that some guy found in his garage...
Rambling Scribe wrote: It does seem like there is not as much content as they originally announced. I can imagine that in many regards it is not their #1 priority considering that the new edition is on its way. At the same time, if they want to hook people, now seems like the time. Yeah, that's a little weird. Check out our free preview! I know the content is thin, and not particularly exciting, but it will be even better once you pay for it! We promise! Riiight.
CEBrown wrote: But others view this as a Problem - if the mage can't do everything in every fight, the player feels like he's deadweight, and the rest of the party comes to agree. How about if the mage can't do SOMETHING in every fight? By choosing to play a mage, the player has indicated a preference for doing caster stuff. Seems there are a couple of choices, particularly at lower levels - * Always keep the big spell in reserve, just in case
I know casters can break out the daggers or crossbows, but at that point, why play a caster from level 1-5? It's not instant gratification - it's just wanting to have a valid character. I've never understood the idea that a character will be weaker at low levels, but more powerful at high levels. That's not balance - that means the game is imbalanced at both ends. Non-casters can use their class-defining skills all day. I don't necessarily think that getting rid of all limitations is a good thing, but adding some unlimited caster goodness wouldn't break the game. I didn't think reserve feats were a bad idea at all. That big spell held in reserve is more useful in the preliminary encounters, and the caster has something to do until it's time to cast it.
One thing to watch out for with new characters/new equipment, though, is that they're often tailored rather tightly to the campaign. The original characters were, too some extent, but that was before the game got down to specifics. Keep an eye on spotlight/effectiveness, so the surviving PCs don't feel overshadowed.
TerraNova wrote:
It was also interesting that the mob fast-healed after combat broke off and it reset. Oh, wait - did I say mob? I meant monster, of course. Can't wait to see the drop tables, though - wanna know where to farm for blues...
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