I'm not gonna prattle on too much but I think it's time the 4th Edition boards were reset.
The "vibe" has become decidedly negative and I find myself posting less-and-less lately. Edition wars, censorship debates and other unpleasantness have infected this place much like a virus infects one's computer.
No disrespect to anyone on these boards but maybe a "do-over" would do the trick. A clean sweep and a fresh start (complete with ground rules for posting etiquette... but no moderation) seem to be in order.
But alass we would always know...deep down we would know some cosmic change has happened and our shattered universe would never be the same.
You know kind of like when the Dark Queen Takhisis stole Krynn. Everything got fixed, but it wasn't the same. Not to mention the wars, dead people, and 2 dead gods. It was sad.
Fizz
I couldn't handle a reset. All that history lost (bad enough all the scrubbing that went on). It's unthinkable.
Hmm, 4e board spellplague.
I couldn't handle a reset. All that history lost (bad enough all the scrubbing that went on). It's unthinkable.
I was just putting the idea out there because I thought it's nice to start from scratch now and again.
At the same time, I understand that people don't want to lose their posts and such... it just seems like their are too many circular debates and posts born of frustration floating around and they've colored these boards negatively for all involved (pro-3ers, pro-4s, Paizo staff and so on).
Sorry I answered jokingly. I don't think it will help, but it is an idea at least. Clearing the board won't clear some peoples minds, or change the 3.5 vs 4.0 divide. Also I think it would just be adding gas to the fire in the moderation outrage and the outrage about the outrage.
Fizz
Sorry I answered jokingly. I don't think it will help, but it is an idea at least. Clearing the board won't clear some peoples minds, or change the 3.5 vs 4.0 divide. Also I think it would just be adding gas to the fire in the moderation outrage and the outrage about the outrage.
Fizz
True...
Cleaning house wouldn't be a punitive thing, more like an enema for the boards. Afterwards everyone could come back with their opinions intact... but with the understanding that these boards need to remain a place for respectful and productive discourse.
I'm not gonna prattle on too much but I think it's time the 4th Edition boards were reset.Reset as suggested and Paizo just went "all in" with respect to its decision on going 3e or 4e.
Ok really? I'm not a fighter in the 3.5 vs 4 or mod wars, but I think thats an over statement/over reaction. I don't want to see any board cleared, but I could see it being done just to try to stop the pain in the ass this all has to be. I don't think it would be a factor in Paizo decision on 3e or 4e. I'm betting/hopeing they stay 3.x.
Now why don't we mossy over to the D&D area and we can all talk about my Shifter thread.
Fizz
Reset as suggested and Paizo just went "all in" with respect to its decision on going 3e or 4e.
How so? To put my cards on the table, I'm all for Paizo sticking with 3.X.
My assumption is that you're saying that a "reset" would indicate that Paizo won't tolerate anti-4th edition speak (my assumption could be dead wrong... in which case I apologize).
If the "reset" were done, it could be couched as a means to clear the air and start afresh... because I think even the Paizo staff would probably like a fresh start for these boards and doesn't want to monitor/moderate posts.
My idea could be a VERY bad one... but it's an idea that comes out of my desire to make these boards a more pleasant place in the long run.
I think the 4th Edition forum needs to remain 3.5 rules. There is no need for a complete overhaul of this forum and I'm afraid that after the wipe, I won't recognize the forum anymore and I will eventually run out of material for the old threads.
I think the 4th Edition forum needs to remain 3.5 rules. There is no need for a complete overhaul of this forum and I'm afraid that after the wipe, I won't recognize the forum anymore and I will eventually run out of material for the old threads.
I'd agree in general, but I'm having trouble with 3.5 forum grapple.
Grapple's easier than it looks if you list it as a set of steps to follow. It's still a bit more complex than it should be.
That said, how about a 3.0/3.5 rules forum? Then you have clear lines between the two groups.
I'm not gonna prattle on too much but I think it's time the 4th Edition boards were reset.
The "vibe" has become decidedly negative and I find myself posting less-and-less lately. Edition wars, censorship debates and other unpleasantness have infected this place much like a virus infects one's computer.
No disrespect to anyone on these boards but maybe a "do-over" would do the trick. A clean sweep and a fresh start (complete with ground rules for posting etiquette... but no moderation) seem to be in order.
What good are ground rules or posting etiquette if there's no moderation?
Especially with all the upset people that have their posts deleted.
I think it will end only in more bad blood.
No its a bad idea.
I know you mean well...But Im probably not the only one who is predicting that if Paizo "reset" the 4th editon forum, the very first thread created would be called "You Bastards! You blew it all up!", or "Paizo's dispicable cencorship practices", or "You deleted the 4th Edition Forum. Thats it Im out!" or something to that effect.
Edit..Ok its also possible the 1st new thread would be made by a smart-alek and it would be called "4th Edition sucks and WotC are Doody-Heads!" :)
Or the board could just be locked until Paizo makes their descision one way or another.
They seriously underestimated what would happen when they tried to play both sides of the fence with 4.0. You can't have (at least 2) threads from company representatives asking posters what they should do and then suddenly be surprised that it has become a battleground.
Don't try to jump on the 4.0 bandwagon and then play the 'last, best hope' for 3.x card. It's like throwing one steak into a pen with 2 hungry dogs.
There are plenty of other places to get information about 4.0. Face it, most of what's here is rehashed from other places.
Is this board really how Paizo wants to be represented? Indeed.
Don't get me wrong, I love the fact that they are looking for customer input. (edit)And I appreciate the fact that they can't make a decision without all the facts.(/edit)
The surprise that it drew the most vehemnet proponents of both sides and that there were resulting 'problems' is what perplexes me.
I couldn't handle a reset. All that history lost (bad enough all the scrubbing that went on). It's unthinkable.
Can you give me the low down?
What scrubbing went on?I missed the whole thing...
I'm not gonna prattle on too much but I think it's time the 4th Edition boards were reset. (...)
It might sound like a good idea, but it would create worse problems in the long run. The angriest of the angry people would write about being silenced, or censorship, or something else they would want to resurrect from the erased material.
It might seem unfortunate, but it's often important to live through both the waxing and waning of times like these - or we lose the better part. The best solution is what they've done, which is to introduce a tiny bit of moderation while the storm lasts. No storm lasts forever.
Wayfinder, PaizoCon Founder
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At first, the idea of resetting the 4e portion of the board sounded great...but then, many of the posters here would just become more outraged. So, bad idea.
Honestly, I think a new subboard needs to be opened: Messageboard rules/complaints/discussion. Too much of this subboard is clogged with endless arguments about free speech, censorship, how the messageboard reflects Paizo, etc. etc.
Where is the discussion about 4e? WHERE?
I am a firm supporter of Paizo, of the community that has gathered around Paizo via this messageboard. Heck, I'm even helping put together a meet-up, a Paizocon, so that many of us can actually meet and play together! So, yes, I enjoy this community of gamers. I would count many of you as friends, even though we've never met. we've had great chats, good online games.
But, what I've seen here is no longer a debate or discussion of the merits or flaws of a new edition. NO. I have seen an increased gathering of those who are anti-4e clustering around this subboard, because they are been squelched and silenced on the other boards. True. I do not like the other boards much either.
I come to these subboards to learn MORE about 4e, without the spin, hype, or marketing ploys. I want to hear from fellow gamers about HOW the game is different from what we are all playing now, why things are different (with valued input from WotC staff), and if it is FUN (with valued input from playtesters). And I used to get that, when the subboards where NEUTRAL.
Instead, some folks here have started to turn this place into a harbor for anti-4e sentiment. Hey, I love to complain too. And I love to complain to a group that loves to complain about the same thing, and that shares my views. I get that. Really, I do. But when someone comes along and posts a thread that tries to discuss the new edition from a positive stance, I really don't need to see over and over again, the complaints that "I hate 4e...period. Nothing good about it whatsoever". I don't need to read them in each and every thread.
I get it. You don't LIKE it. You don't WANT it. You HATE everything ABOUT it. You don't need to post it in every single thread. When someone asks to list 10 positive things about 4e to you, I don't need to see you post 13 thinly veiled insults on how it sucks. That is incredibly unhelpful. It just reinforces the conclusion that the Paizo boards are no longer neutral, and have slipped into the "anti-4e" category.
Believe it or not, 4e is coming, and many of us are interested to see what it is, and how it is going to work. We may or may not like it. However, I know, without a doubt, that many of the posters here WILL NOT. And that's fine. You've made that point abundantly clear here. Please, please, PLEASE, let's move this back to the intelligent, thought-provoking, relevant and RESPECTFUL discussion that it once was.
As neutral as I can get,
Timitius
...But, what I've seen here is no longer a debate or discussion of the merits or flaws of a new edition. NO. I have seen an increased gathering of those who are anti-4e clustering around this subboard, because they are been squelched and silenced on the other boards. True. I do not like the other boards much either. (...)
Well, there's the rub. At the moment, everyone's just irked and cranky. We haven't seen a lot of the material and we're a far bit away from seeing the full version of 4E. It might be a month or more until we do.
What we all need is some aspirin and a cold compress to bring a little of the inflammation down.
Maybe they can totally erase all of 4th edition board, and then they can rename it "The Forgotten Board", in tribute to 4th edition. :)
Or the board could just be locked until Paizo makes their descision one way or another.
Then people would take the discussion elsewhere. And I think a lot of people would take their money elsewhere.
Personally, I don't think that anything needs to be done to the 4E boards that hasn't been done. Erasing all the posts, while an idea with good intentions behind it, would just blur our memory of what happened and what we did and wouldn't put any bad blood to rest, IMO.
If there's one thing that I think could change, it would be the posts ABOUT the forum, or the posts about posts. I was tempted to make a post about the posts about posts, but was afraid of someone posting about my post about the posts about posts.