How I feel about the Pathfinder RPG


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I cross-posted the "Pathfinder RPG Beta Preview #2" post from the Paizo blog over at ENworld and rpgnet to keep fans up to date. While detractors immediately pounced on it, one of the responses reflected my view of the rpg [bold mine for emphasis]:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saz View Post
not to offend anyone, but its almost sad to see this play out. Right now people ae riding an emotional and nostalgic high for 3e; a year from now when the Pathfinder rules appear for $$$ after being FREE for a YEAR, and with 4e probably having a dozen or so books out by that time, I doubt Paizo will be able to ever sell of its stock of Pathfinder books. (unless they print in only very small numbers, but even then they will end up making a loss due to the cost of printing vs small demand)
Pathfinder won't be "up there" in sales with D&D 4E, but it will do fine, I think. Locally I know of two of three guys who dislike 4E intensely and are avidly following Pathfinder. Paizo's doing a smart thing, here, by offering up a continuing source of content for people who like the style and focus of 3E, and for whom 4E was too much of a divergence.

Me: I am firmly in the 4E camp. But I will buy Pathfinder so I can play in the game my friend runs with 3.5 that will almost certainly switch to Pathfinder when it is released.

Think of Pathfinder as being in the same camp as True20, Arcana Evolved, Iron heroes and other D20 spin-offs, and it will stop looking like a waste of time, and just another cool game that will appeal to segment X of the gaming population.

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

got a link for enworld at all? Also would these be the same people that every five minutes were saying Paizo would crash and burn for not going with the GSL? (Months before we saw the thing I might add)


Can I get Saz’s phone number? I need to find out which numbers to play for the lottery.

Contributor

Yeah, give us a link so we can throw some artillery at the 4E fanatics. ;-)

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

I eagerly await the PFRPG so I can continue to adventure in the marvelous world of Golarion. That said, I intend to put in on the shelf next to my Earthdawn, D&D 1-3.5, Dragonlance, Torg, Star Wars, Gamma World, etc. as another great game to play. I've seen 4ed, and it looks interesting. Not the same as 3.5, but I see no reason to choose either/or. I'll play both as the desire suits.

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Kevin Mack wrote:
got a link for enworld at all? Also would these be the same people that every five minutes were saying Paizo would crash and burn for not going with the GSL? (Months before we saw the thing I might add)

Here you go. ENworld was slow. Again. :(

Scarab Sages

Wait, does he go from saying "Pathfinder will lose money" to "Pathfinder will do fine"?

The logic...is...failing...


Jal Dorak wrote:
Wait, does he go from saying "Pathfinder will lose money" to "Pathfinder will do fine"?

That's how I read it. The problem with comparing the other systems he mentions to Pathfinder is that those systems had to start a new fan base, which is a lot harder than capitalizing on an existing fan base.

Sometimes I feel like I'm a weird minority when I read the so-called "edition wars" threads that are all over gaming sites. Doesn't anyone plan on playing 3.5e sometimes, Pathfinder sometimes, 4e sometimes... Traveler, Spaceship Zero, Call of Cthulhu... am I the only one who doesn't have a one-size-fits-all game?


Jal Dorak wrote:

Wait, does he go from saying "Pathfinder will lose money" to "Pathfinder will do fine"?

The logic...is...failing...

No, that's one poster quoting another poster (not at all clear from the quote above!). If you go to the rpg.net thread, there's really one guy sounding off and one guy rebutting him.

At any rate, I agree that Pathfinder will be a niche market compared to D&D. How big a niche, I don't know.


Jal Dorak wrote:

Wait, does he go from saying "Pathfinder will lose money" to "Pathfinder will do fine"?

The logic...is...failing...

It should be noted, the confusion there is due to poor editing in the OP. It should have looked like:

Saz wrote:
not to offend anyone, but its almost sad to see this play out. Right now people ae riding an emotional and nostalgic high for 3e; a year from now when the Pathfinder rules appear for $$$ after being FREE for a YEAR, and with 4e probably having a dozen or so books out by that time, I doubt Paizo will be able to ever sell of its stock of Pathfinder books. (unless they print in only very small numbers, but even then they will end up making a loss due to the cost of printing vs small demand)
Tori Bergquist wrote:

Pathfinder won't be "up there" in sales with D&D 4E, but it will do fine, I think. Locally I know of two of three guys who dislike 4E intensely and are avidly following Pathfinder. Paizo's doing a smart thing, here, by offering up a continuing source of content for people who like the style and focus of 3E, and for whom 4E was too much of a divergence.

Me: I am firmly in the 4E camp. But I will buy Pathfinder so I can play in the game my friend runs with 3.5 that will almost certainly switch to Pathfinder when it is released.

Think of Pathfinder as being in the same camp as True20, Arcana Evolved, Iron heroes and other D20 spin-offs, and it will stop looking like a waste of time, and just another cool game that will appeal to segment X of the gaming population.

I hope that clarifies things a bit.

Liberty's Edge

Speaking purely for the sake of my group, I can say that 4e and Pathfinder will both be supported by us. We have to people running games now, and one of them will be 4e. He intends on running their adventure line, and will probably buy several of their other books as well. I've sold my soul and will be looking forward to all the Pathfindery goodness I've subscribed to, and fully intend on getting the final release of the Pathfinder rules, even as i work on my own 3.x variant rules for my homebrew campaigns.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Darrin Drader wrote:
Yeah, give us a link so we can throw some artillery at the 4E fanatics. ;-)

We prefer the term 4natics. If you can use a 4, you should. Sheesh. ;-)


cr0m wrote:
Sometimes I feel like I'm a weird minority when I read the so-called "edition wars" threads that are all over gaming sites. Doesn't anyone plan on playing 3.5e sometimes, Pathfinder sometimes, 4e sometimes... Traveler, Spaceship Zero, Call of Cthulhu... am I the only one who doesn't have a one-size-fits-all game?

Although there are a lot of us that might OWN these games, it would surprise me if the average person has time to play more than one or two at a time. And a lot of game play revolves around D&D. So D&D, then Traveller, then D&D , then Call of Cthulhu, then D&D, etc. So the Edition War is about what is the center of your gaming universe.

Or maybe I am the minority that only does this as a hobby. It is not the center of my universe (despite what my wifes says.)


Joela, does every thread you start have to reflect some sort of ongoing drama between Pathfinder and 4E?

Is it possible to discuss Pathfinder on it's own merits without making it a popularity contest? Or even worse, trying to start crap between two different messageboards?

I don't understand how many people miss the point that this isn't a black and white issue - 4E doesn't have to lose for Paizo to win. Paizo doesn't have to lose for 4E to win. Both companies have slightly different target markets. Where the markets overlap, it's not a problem, because people are allowed to buy and play more than one game.

Is it possible to talk about Pathfinder on the Pathfinder board, or do we have to continually bring 4E into it? Do you periodically hit Macintosh-centered boards and stir up crap about Windows Vista, too?


joela wrote:
Think of Pathfinder as being in the same camp as True20, Arcana Evolved, Iron heroes and other D20 spin-offs, and it will stop looking like a waste of time, and just another cool game that will appeal to segment X of the gaming population.

[I think that might be someone else's quote that just expressed you view but I am close to quoting you correctly]

The games mentioned were after a segment that had a style of play. I think that PfRPG hopes to keep a good percentage of the old 3.5 crowd from all styles of play. But I think the biggest difference between your examples and PfRPG is that PfRPG builds off of tons of material. I got about sixty 3.5 books that I can easily use with PfRPG. I got about six Arcana Evolved books. I got about six Conan books. These books are best used within their sub-system.

I really like some of the systems you mentioned. But I would never subscribe to them. People are subscribing to Pathfinder. This is a big step up from anything done before. And when you think of it, that is exactly WotC has as their biggest goal. Monthly subscription fees. Pathfinder has already set the bar and WotC should be jealous.

This is not a derogatory statement towards 4e. 4e has just started out the gate. But what Paizo has done is impressive.

Scarab Sages

pres man wrote:


I hope that clarifies things a bit.

Ah, much better. My head no longer explodes.

Sebastian wrote:
...4natics...

I thought we were just calling it "4" now, instead of "4E" or "4th Edition".

Also:

If you 4bly 4ssess 4t 4ll 4ppro4ch4ble 4ngles, 4rguments 4bout 4ctivities 4nd 4musements 4re 4mic4bly 4melior4ted.

If you can read the above statement, you have been on the edition-wars threads to long.

Contributor

Jal Dorak wrote:


I thought we were just calling it "4" now, instead of "4E" or "4th Edition".

Also:

If you 4bly 4ssess 4t 4ll 4ppro4ch4ble 4ngles, 4rguments 4bout 4ctivities 4nd 4musements 4re 4mic4bly 4melior4ted.

If you can read the above statement, you have been on the edition-wars threads to long.

There's always the "D&D in name only," which is always good as flamebait.

Liberty's Edge

Sebastian wrote:
Darrin Drader wrote:
Yeah, give us a link so we can throw some artillery at the 4E fanatics. ;-)
We prefer the term 4natics. If you can use a 4, you should. Sheesh. ;-)

I call them 4nicators.

Dark Archive

DeadDMWalking wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
Darrin Drader wrote:
Yeah, give us a link so we can throw some artillery at the 4E fanatics. ;-)
We prefer the term 4natics. If you can use a 4, you should. Sheesh. ;-)
I call them 4nicators.

Well since fornication is sex, and sex is good, then I'm assuming that's a compliment ;p

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Darrin Drader wrote:


There's always the "D&D in name only," which is always good as flamebait.

*pulls out fire extinguisher*


DeadDMWalking wrote:
I call them 4nicators.

This is the RPG world, each game consists of one DM and a group of 4players. Everyone knows gamers are to geeky to 4nicate.

To be honest I'm quite sick of hearing "XXXX says Pathfinder is Doomed". Does it really matter what some numbskull on ENworld thinks about the future of Pathfinder? Why drag a stupid debate from one forum drag onto another?


Dennis da Ogre wrote:
Why drag a stupid debate from one forum drag onto another?

'cause you all bite.


Aarontendo wrote:
DeadDMWalking wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
Darrin Drader wrote:
Yeah, give us a link so we can throw some artillery at the 4E fanatics. ;-)
We prefer the term 4natics. If you can use a 4, you should. Sheesh. ;-)
I call them 4nicators.
Well since fornication is sex, and sex is good, then I'm assuming that's a compliment ;p

Are you assuming any of them are actually having sex?


Dennis da Ogre wrote:


To be honest I'm quite sick of hearing "XXXX says Pathfinder is Doomed". Does it really matter what some numbskull on ENworld thinks about the future of Pathfinder? Why drag a stupid debate from one forum drag onto another?

QFT. I don't really care what anyone at EnWorld, Gleemax or RPGnet thinks. There is enough crud flying around these boards without stirring up more controversy by showing what more anti-3E/Pathfinder boards are saying.

Joela, I know you are trying to help, but this recent rash of postings about other boards and their feelings towards Paizo strikes me as particularly non-productive. It is just riling up the extremist partisans. We are starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel on this ridiculous edition war here at Paizo, let's let sleeping dogs lie.

Pathfinder is Pathfinder, 4E is 4E, True20 is True20, Car Wars is Car Wars. Everybody with an axe to grind is staring into their magic eight ball, predicting doom for either camp when we are only in the second month of 4E's release, and the Pathfinder ruleset is not even going to be finalized until 2009. It's all a crock. NO ONE KNOWS WHAT WILL HAPPEN!

I'll give you my prediction: They'll all eventually learn to live with each other, and all this wasted typing predicting the end of D&D as we know it will seem completely foolish. No one has to defend or protect anything. You want to make a real statement? Don't buy the rulebooks of the edition you despise. that is the only real effect you can have on either game.

/rant


Patrick Curtin wrote:


I'll give you my prediction: They'll all eventually learn to live with each other, and all this wasted typing predicting the end of D&D as we know it will seem completely foolish.

CONCENTRATE AND ASK AGAIN

Scarab Sages

joela wrote:
Kevin Mack wrote:
got a link for enworld at all? Also would these be the same people that every five minutes were saying Paizo would crash and burn for not going with the GSL? (Months before we saw the thing I might add)
Here you go. ENworld was slow. Again. :(

There only seems to be your post & one non-inflammatory reply. Did the space marines arrive and employ a scorched earth policy on the thread?

Contributor

Patrick Curtin wrote:


Pathfinder is Pathfinder, 4E is 4E, True20 is True20, Car Wars is Car Wars. Everybody with an axe to grind is staring into their magic eight ball, predicting doom for either camp when we are only in the second month of 4E's release, and the Pathfinder ruleset is not even going to be finalized until 2009. It's all a crock. NO ONE KNOWS WHAT WILL HAPPEN!

I'll give you my prediction: They'll all eventually learn to live with each other, and all this wasted typing predicting the end of D&D as we know it will seem completely foolish. No one has to defend or protect anything. You want to make a real statement? Don't buy the rulebooks of the edition you despise. that is the only real effect you can have on either game.

I agree with you in principal and I think that fanning the flames of edition wars and WotC hate is generally a bad thing. That said, this amuses me and I'll self censor after sharing. http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/326740%5C

Having been with WotC customer service in a former life, I can say that the most commonly used word in a WotC email response is "unfortunately."

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underling wrote:
joela wrote:
Kevin Mack wrote:
got a link for enworld at all? Also would these be the same people that every five minutes were saying Paizo would crash and burn for not going with the GSL? (Months before we saw the thing I might add)
Here you go. ENworld was slow. Again. :(
There only seems to be your post & one non-inflammatory reply. Did the space marines arrive and employ a scorched earth policy on the thread?

I've wondered about that, too. I'm beginning to think that ENworld's tacit support of Pathfinder may have had an influence. That, or its moderation policies. Interestingly, though the d20 section of rpgnet is younger than ENworld, it seems to be more active especially among more extreme factions.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

DeadDMWalking wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
Darrin Drader wrote:
Yeah, give us a link so we can throw some artillery at the 4E fanatics. ;-)
We prefer the term 4natics. If you can use a 4, you should. Sheesh. ;-)
I call them 4nicators.

Dang it, you beat me to it.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

DeadDMWalking wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
Darrin Drader wrote:
Yeah, give us a link so we can throw some artillery at the 4E fanatics. ;-)
We prefer the term 4natics. If you can use a 4, you should. Sheesh. ;-)
I call them 4nicators.

4 real?

Dark Archive

Sebastian wrote:
DeadDMWalking wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
Darrin Drader wrote:
Yeah, give us a link so we can throw some artillery at the 4E fanatics. ;-)
We prefer the term 4natics. If you can use a 4, you should. Sheesh. ;-)
I call them 4nicators.
4 real?

Argh! 4 the love of gaw...!

Oh, GREAT! Now I'm sayin' the "F' word. I'm going to 4wrd this to the admins...! :p


Darrin Drader wrote:

I agree with you in principal and I think that fanning the flames of edition wars and WotC hate is generally a bad thing. That said, this amuses me and I'll self censor after sharing. http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/326740%5C

Having been with WotC customer service in a former life, I can say that the most commonly used word in a WotC email response is "unfortunately."

That is a pretty funny story. My first question is with all the freely downloadable character sheets out there... does anyone still buy character sheets? At $10 for 32 characters sheets it's expensive, $10 for 4 character sheets? That's crazy talk. You can go to kinkos.com (maybe it's on a fed-ex site now I don't know) and get 50 printed for less than that.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8

joela wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
DeadDMWalking wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
Darrin Drader wrote:
Yeah, give us a link so we can throw some artillery at the 4E fanatics. ;-)
We prefer the term 4natics. If you can use a 4, you should. Sheesh. ;-)
I call them 4nicators.
4 real?

Argh! 4 the love of gaw...!

Oh, GREAT! Now I'm sayin' the "F' word. I'm going to 4wrd this to the admins...! :p

I think I'm going to sick...

I need to make a 4titude save... :)

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Zynete wrote:
joela wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
DeadDMWalking wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
Darrin Drader wrote:
Yeah, give us a link so we can throw some artillery at the 4E fanatics. ;-)
We prefer the term 4natics. If you can use a 4, you should. Sheesh. ;-)
I call them 4nicators.
4 real?

Argh! 4 the love of gaw...!

Oh, GREAT! Now I'm sayin' the "F' word. I'm going to 4wrd this to the admins...! :p

I think I'm going to sick...

I need to make a 4titude save... :)

You, sir, go too 4.

Sovereign Court

Dennis da Ogre wrote:

To be honest I'm quite sick of hearing "XXXX says Pathfinder is Doomed". Does it really matter what some numbskull on ENworld thinks about the future of Pathfinder? Why drag a stupid debate from one forum drag onto another?

Dennis, very well put. Joela - could you please cut it out. This isn't Enworld. Who gives a f@*! what some numbskull on ENworld thinks about the future of Pathfinder.

To all: As we know, the future of Pathfinder Roleplaying Game is what WE make it. Its YOUR world now.

Liberty's Edge

Sebastian wrote:
Zynete wrote:
joela wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
DeadDMWalking wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
Darrin Drader wrote:
Yeah, give us a link so we can throw some artillery at the 4E fanatics. ;-)
We prefer the term 4natics. If you can use a 4, you should. Sheesh. ;-)
I call them 4nicators.
4 real?

Argh! 4 the love of gaw...!

Oh, GREAT! Now I'm sayin' the "F' word. I'm going to 4wrd this to the admins...! :p

I think I'm going to sick...

I need to make a 4titude save... :)

You, sir, go too 4.

For horrible puns, I sentence you all to death by being stabbed with a 4k!

Contributor

Dennis da Ogre wrote:


That is a pretty funny story. My first question is with all the freely downloadable character sheets out there... does anyone still buy character sheets? At $10 for 32 characters sheets it's expensive, $10 for 4 character sheets? That's crazy talk. You can go to kinkos.com (maybe it's on a fed-ex site now I don't know) and get 50 printed for less than that.

Yeah, I don't get it either. Most people have a computer and a printer these days, but the one thing that the D&D character sheets have always been good for in the past has been giving people a large quantity of sheets for a fairly low price. This product just doesn't make much sense to me.

Scarab Sages

Insert Neat Username Here wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
Zynete wrote:
joela wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
DeadDMWalking wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
Darrin Drader wrote:
Yeah, give us a link so we can throw some artillery at the 4E fanatics. ;-)
We prefer the term 4natics. If you can use a 4, you should. Sheesh. ;-)
I call them 4nicators.
4 real?

Argh! 4 the love of gaw...!

Oh, GREAT! Now I'm sayin' the "F' word. I'm going to 4wrd this to the admins...! :p

I think I'm going to sick...

I need to make a 4titude save... :)

You, sir, go too 4.
For horrible puns, I sentence you all to death by stabbing with a 4k!

May the 4ce be with you.

Or

Don't turn to the darkside of the 4ce.

Scarab Sages

This thread makes me 4lorn. I 4got how 4cefully people 4m opinions.

Scarab Sages

Jal Dorak wrote:
This thread makes me 4lorn. I 4got how 4cefully people 4m opinions.

4tunately, we're here to in4m you.

ughh. it hurts.

Dark Archive

Jal Dorak wrote:
This thread makes me 4lorn. I 4got how 4cefully people 4m opinions.

Cure. I'm still trying to 4igure out, though, how Sebastian and Bella Sera are linked....

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Dennis da Ogre wrote:


That is a pretty funny story. My first question is with all the freely downloadable character sheets out there... does anyone still buy character sheets? At $10 for 32 characters sheets it's expensive, $10 for 4 character sheets? That's crazy talk. You can go to kinkos.com (maybe it's on a fed-ex site now I don't know) and get 50 printed for less than that.

At first, I thought this was dumb too, but then I thought about it some more, and now I think it's a work of marketing genius!

Think about it:

4 sheets
4e!

It all fits together!!!

Dark Archive

Sebastian wrote:


At first, I thought this was dumb too, but then I thought about it some more, and now I think it's a work of marketing genius!

Think about it:

4 sheets
4e!

It all fits together!!!

I think Sebastian's suffering a bit of "paizonaria" from overexposure to the boards. *Summons the burly men in white*. Here, Sebastian, let's try on the white jacket, okay...?


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I just don't understand all this going back and forth about Pathfinder and 4. You should all realized that my Arduin/MERP rules for running Judges Guild modules will be the way everyone plays in 2 years.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Insert Neat Username Here wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
Zynete wrote:
joela wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
DeadDMWalking wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
Darrin Drader wrote:
Yeah, give us a link so we can throw some artillery at the 4E fanatics. ;-)
We prefer the term 4natics. If you can use a 4, you should. Sheesh. ;-)
I call them 4nicators.
4 real?

Argh! 4 the love of gaw...!

Oh, GREAT! Now I'm sayin' the "F' word. I'm going to 4wrd this to the admins...! :p

I think I'm going to sick...

I need to make a 4titude save... :)

You, sir, go too 4.
For horrible puns, I sentence you all to death by being stabbed with a 4k!

Oh yeah? Well, 4Q!

Dark Archive

Vic Wertz wrote:


Oh yeah? Well, 4Q!

No, 4Q2!

Liberty's Edge

joela wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
Insert Neat Username Here wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
Zynete wrote:
joela wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
DeadDMWalking wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
Darrin Drader wrote:
Yeah, give us a link so we can throw some artillery at the 4E fanatics. ;-)
We prefer the term 4natics. If you can use a 4, you should. Sheesh. ;-)
I call them 4nicators.
4 real?

Argh! 4 the love of gaw...!

Oh, GREAT! Now I'm sayin' the "F' word. I'm going to 4wrd this to the admins...! :p

I think I'm going to sick...

I need to make a 4titude save... :)

You, sir, go too 4.
For horrible puns, I sentence you all to death by being stabbed with a 4k!
Oh yeah? Well, 4Q!
No, 4Q2!

4 great justice.


Resistance is futile.

Scarab Sages

Duncan & Dragons wrote:
cr0m wrote:
Sometimes I feel like I'm a weird minority when I read the so-called "edition wars" threads that are all over gaming sites. Doesn't anyone plan on playing 3.5e sometimes, Pathfinder sometimes, 4e sometimes... Traveler, Spaceship Zero, Call of Cthulhu... am I the only one who doesn't have a one-size-fits-all game?

Although there are a lot of us that might OWN these games, it would surprise me if the average person has time to play more than one or two at a time. And a lot of game play revolves around D&D. So D&D, then Traveller, then D&D , then Call of Cthulhu, then D&D, etc. So the Edition War is about what is the center of your gaming universe.

Or maybe I am the minority that only does this as a hobby. It is not the center of my universe (despite what my wifes says.)

Actually, my RPG of choice is HARP. I had already given up on 3.5. I am now playing Pathfinder for (sort of) fixing the majority of things I had grown to dislike about D&D. A friend convinced me to give it a try, btw (Thanks Jamar). I am very glad that I listened to him. Pathfinder is a great step in the right direction.

My gaming looks something like this...

30% HARP
20% Pathfinder
40% Boardgames/ Non-CCG card games - Arkham Horror, Dungeon Twister,Tannhäuser, Runebound,Citadels, Dust etc...
10% Miniatures Games - Confrontation, Hordes

I would prefer more minis right now, but I am trying to get things together for Gencon and all...

As far as how often I game, usually twice a week or so, 2-6 hours, when I am lucky (People do have lives, as someone mentioned).

-Uriel


Brent Stroh wrote:

Is it possible to discuss Pathfinder on it's own merits without making it a popularity contest? Or even worse, trying to start crap between two different messageboards?

Is it possible to talk about Pathfinder on the Pathfinder board, or do we have to continually bring 4E into it?

^this.

Im not sure what the op wanted to accomplish here either.

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