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Yes, mythic Age of Worms can work.

Holy Sh*t, mythic PCs are ridiculously powerful.

I think it makes a really cool arc. Each evil mythic encounter for us has been the PCs getting closer and closer to Kyuss and his divine power. Sort of like the quickening in the highlander series. They absorb the power of the defeated mythic foes.

I started mythic with their ascension when the PCs fought a mythic Harbringer at the bottom of the Spire of Long Shadows.

That was epic. The PCs had no idea what was coming.

Then the question became, what tier will they reach by the end?

Pros: as the DM you get to throw mythic bad guys at the party.

Cons: you have to build the mythic bad guys and triple their hit points.

Seriously, I have a group of serious gamers that lean a little too much on the power gaming side. They recognize it so now they're trying to not add "power" but instead trying to add "fun" to their PCs but they're already ridiculous.

I highly recommend DMs triple or quadruple hit points on any bosses or they will not last one round. Good luck hitting a PC's AC with anything but a boss.

Extra Pro: I get to make a mythic dragotha, which will be freaking amazing and hopefully terrifying.

Because my PCs are so unbelievably powerful, I get to bend rules all the time just to make it a tiny bit challenging.

Rule #1 is that everyone is having fun. Don't forget that part.

Challenging your mythic heroes will be an epic task in itself.

Good luck!


Thank you so much for your detailed suggestions.

Some of them are great!

Unfortunately, spellstoring is an ability that can only be applied to a melee weapon.

Even if spellstoring could be added to an arrow, it would have to be a +1 arrow first, which makes it a very expensive arrow since adding spellstoring would make it a +2 arrow (so 8,000 gp for 50 arrows).

I do plan on using some of your ideas. I didn't even know "cyclonic" existed as a magical property.

Thank you to everyone who has responded to my request for feedback.

I have sent everyone a private message except for Adahn.

Adahn, thank you for the link to that message board on high-level play. I appreciate it.

“For even the very wise cannot see all ends.” - Gandalf

Hi. I am hoping you might be able to help me.

This is a request for some DM/GM feedback.

I'm working on a high-level homebrew campaign and it would be nice to get some feedback from some experienced DMs, especially if you have DM'd a game in the 15-20 level range.

Obviously, I could just post my content and questions on the boards but I really do not want my players to read about it. That would totally ruin all the fun and surprises. Spoilers!

I realize this is totally selfish of me to ask but I want someone I could trade emails with and bounce some ideas around.

Personally, I have been playing D&D for nearly 30 years. I've been DMing a game for almost 20 years.
I still think it would be helpful get some opinions from other DMs since I have never DM'd a high-level game.

We're playing pathfinder. The party is level 17, mythic tier 1.
They're about to hit level 18.

If you don't want to trade emails we could use the message board's private message feature.

So if you're interesting in helping me polish the outline of my campaign arc. Send me a note.

Thanks for your time!


Why are you adding +4 from dex to your damage output?

your damage should be:

@ 5th: 1d6 +1 str, +1 (hitter) +2 brawling +3 close (1d6+7)

Unless I missed something, I'd love to know how you're adding your DEX bonus to damage.

To continue with the "cold" based Wyvern idea, consider this:

34. Frostbite Wyvern: The dark blue scales on this wyvern have faded to an icy blue. Shards of ice jut out from its body at painful angles. It's eyes look like frozen orbs glowing with a pale blue light. It's body emanates with an unnatural cold.
Add the Frostfallen template

This provides a ton of benefits: gains the undead and cold subtypes
natural armor +4
immune to cold, gains vulnerability to fire
flight maneuverability drops to clumsy
special attack: cold: 2d6 damage
body generates intense cold. creatures striking it with unarmed or natural weapons take cold damage on each hit.
+2 strength, +6 charisma, no con, no intel, wisdom becomes 10
skill ranks dropt to zero
feats drop to zero, gains toughness
gains lifesense 60'

Hard to believe but this is a +1 CR template

Dang, I just looked at the Mexican peso exchange rate. I still can't afford them.

Good luck!

um... are we talking U.S. dollars? As in K = $1,000.00?

Because if it's Japanese yen, or maybe Mexican Pesos, then, deal! I'll buy them now.

If you're talking $10,000.00 U.S. that seems a little high. ;-)

I do think they look awesome. You did an excellent job!

why are you putting so many points into intelligence?

You already get a lot of skill points as a ninja.

I would lower the intelligence and raise your strength.

A bad encounter with a shadow or two and you're dead.

You are welcome, Conundrum.

Trace, thank you for posting that link for the companions of the hall.

Byrdology is correct, Forgotten Realms 3.0? (or was it 3.5) had twin weapon style but I think it was for Drow characters only, or maybe Drow and natives of Waterdeep but I'm not sure.

I couldn't find any stats on Cattie Brie or Drizzt.

page 77 says Bruenor Battlehammer is a level 13 fighter

HP 163, init +0, speed: 20' AC 23

Attack: +21/+16/+11 melee (1d12+11/17-20/x3) +3 keen greataxe

neutral good, fort +14 ref +4 will +8

str 18, dex 10, con 22, int 15, wis 13 chas 13

height: 4'6"

+3 plate, +3 keen greataxe, amulet of natural armor +2
gauntlets of ogre power (str 18?)
periapt of wound closure, potion of cure serious wounds,
potion of heroism

After reading all the books, I pictured Bruenor with a shield in one hand and a dwarven battle axe (1 handed exotic weapon) in the other.

in the book, page 96, Wulfgar is a 9th level barbarian.

HP: 99, init+2, speed: 30' AC 18
attack +18/+13 melee (1d10+10/19-20/x3) with Aegis-fang
or +16 ranged (1d10+8/19-20/x3) with Aegis-fang

chaotic good, Fort +9, Ref +5 Will +4

Str 19, dex 15, con 17, int 13, wis 12, chas 13

height: 6'10"

he has +3 hide armor

Aegis-fang is a +4 throwing maul of returning.

I disagree with the comment it was 1/2e version.

I have this book, this is the 3.0 version (I believe)

here's a the link

They ask their 20th level casting buddies to help. ;-)

The only thing ugly about my PC "Rex" encountering a paladin will be the paladin's vision of my backside running away.

I fully realize that as undead I probably smell like dead flesh, but there is nothing in the bestiary that says zombies, juju zombies or other undead suffer any stealth penalties for their stench. Thus I don't see any need for gentle repose. Zombies don't slowly turn into skeletons so I'm not worried about my flesh falling off.

I believe the DM is keeping the "why" I am undead as a secret for now. That's fine. I'm sure he has a story element to it down the road. I'm probably cursed. Only he knows. The chance to play an undead monk in an evil pirate campaign just sounded like too much fun when he offered it to me.

I am worried about the lack of hit points. We did discuss that undead are normally destroyed at zero (0) hit points. The DM says he has plan for that and I shouldn't worry. Maybe the "curse" provides a way around that issue. I can still die (again) and I certainly feel vulnerable.

I am considering some sort of charisma boosting item to help with my HPs. I'd hate to pass on raising my wisdom since wisdom boosts my ki pool and my AC.

You're right that being undead provides plenty of advantages, especially in this pirate campaign. Right now the DM is imposing a one level penalty to make sure I don't become overpowered.

Trying to use disguise and bluff are not going to work because my charisma is so low.

here are my stats. I'm happy with them. I think they're probably too good for a level 3 character. Keep in mind that in addition to the undead traits, I also gained +3 natural armor, +4 strength, +2 dex, and the rest of the juju zombie template including the toughness feat and improved initiative feat (pretty sweet for a melee character like myself).

current stats: (charisma was my dump stat)

Str: 20 +5
Dex: 18 +4
Con: 0 (was 14)
Int: 8 -1
Wis: 18 +4
cha: 5 -3

At level 3 my hit points are currently: 21
Everyone else in the party is level 4 and has 40-50 HPs

hit point breakdown:

monk d8: 8
cha penalty: -3
favored class: +1
toughness: +1
total: 7 hp per level x 3 = 21

Note: the DM is experimenting with HPs and giving all the PCs max hit points at every level. Basically the concept is that if the PCs have more HPs he can beat on us harder ( and I think most of the bad guys might have max hps too but that just makes combat longer).

Right now my thought is crank up my armor class so I don't get hit and thus the lack of HPs won't hurt so bad.

My armor class is 23, pretty good for a level 3 character.

+1 bracers of armor
+4 for wisdom bonus (monk)
+4 dex
+1 dodge
+3 natural armor
10 base
23 armor class

One of the posters suggested I use poisons, but I'm not sure how that would really work for me as a monk.


dotting to read later.

I've got some ideas. For example, when I can afford it, getting a 'hat of disguise' for those times I might be around people (in port?) that are not part of my crew.

I'm eager to see what the forums come up with.

Opinions/Suggestions wanted!

by a strange twist of fate (a.k.a. DM fiat) my previously dead PC is now back as an undead PC (juju zombie template).

It wasn't my idea but something the DM came up with.

We're both excited to see how this unexpected change will work... I've got some cool ideas on how to play him (btw, he's a monk). We are in the Skulls & Shackles campaign, which helps mitigate most of any potential alignment issues of being undead.

As a balancing factor, I will always be one level behind the rest of the party and at the moment, my hit points are about half the weakest PC. Why is that? good question. It's because I have a penalty to my charisma, which affects my hit points as an undead (and I'm a level behind).

SO.... this thread is just to see what the incredibly clever PRPG community can come up with on how to pimp out my undead monk to make him the biggest, baddest pirate the seas have ever seen.

Currently the PCs are level 4. My monk is level 3.

Got ideas on how to make him awesome? Then let's hear it.

Ready, Go!

Our little game group, actually our awesome little gaming group, has several campaigns running at the same time. We definitely use WBL when a character dies and we need to bring in a new PC. However, we're pretty strict about keeping with the Pathfinder's gamemastering guidelines on not more than 25% on weapons, not more than 25% on armor, etc. As a DM i usually ask to see the gear list that the new character is bringing into the party.

There are exceptions. If there is a DM-created unique item, those tend to be very expensive and skew character wealth substantially.

!! Fun exercise... in my high-level campaign where all the PCs are level 17, they just lost all their gear. Seriously, they are all naked with only one item. I'm looking forward to seeing how this progresses. I'm planning to start any new encounters low to watch how a lack of gear effects play. I know that eventually I'll get them back to a normal WBL.

We discussed this idea of armor as DR in our game.

Unfortunately, some of the PCs would have so much DR that the DM would not be able to damage them with a normal CR monster.

It looks like it could go the other way as well with some monsters having so much DR that we, the players, would not be able to hurt it.

We toyed around with the idea that maybe a "sunder" attack could lower a monster's DR, even natural armor, to try and get around this stalemate.

Eventually we decided it seemed like an interesting idea but combat already takes too long and we don't want it to take any longer.

I know this thread is old, but did anyone every see anything about a conversion?

"Scale of War" is a 4E adventure path. I'd like to know if someone converted it to 3e or Pathfinder.

oh my gosh, I know I'm late to the conversation here but this is ridiculous.

I just looked up a bear animal companion.

The bear is getting robbed!

the large cats get the special attacks (grab, rake, pounce) when they advance but bears do not get grab?

The wolf gets to advance from medium to large but the bears is stuck at medium???

This is not right!

looking on the boards, it seems the best answer was to just use the large cat stats and call it a bear (with maybe an adjustment to lower its dex) and add the grab ability.

.I saw what James Jacobs said about how a "maze" spell works normally on an eidolon, but what happens if you use a "maze" spell on the summoner? Does the eidolon stay now that the summoner is in the maze's extradimensional space?

.Question about Eidolons and magic.
.Eidolons are a "summoned creature".
.The rules concerning eidolons say that " The eidolon cannot be sent back to its home plane by means of "dispel magic".
.Would a "mage's disjunction" (9th level spell) send the eidolon back to his home plane?

Or would he stay since mage's disjunction says " spells and spell-like effects are unraveled and destroyed completely (ending the effect as a dispel magic spell does)"
.I am confused.

I thought a "mage's disjunction ended all spell effects and sent summoned creatures back home.

.P.S. as a side note, we used to believe that when an eidolon went home that any gear it was wearing stayed here on the material plane. Yet we cannot find that in the rules anymore. Was that in the beta and has since been removed?

.if you're building the dragon, then double his HPs and make sure he has the spell "fickle winds" to shut down those archers (either himself or a minion casting the spell).

.then my next thought is "does this mean the PCs are under a constant polymorph effect that can be dispelled?"

since it says "duration: permanent" not that it's an instantaneous effect.

That makes me think it could be dispelled.

.true, you could argue for +7
same kingdom (+5)
and same size (+2)

adding wings doesn't change your intelligence either.
that means you could also add
same or lower intelligence (+2)

that's +9 total for a duration of permanent.

really? no one has any opinions on this idea?

.we still don't have a definitive ruleset from Paizo on PaO (see my previous post)

.However, now my 16th level players are thinking about using PaO on themselves to grow permanent wings.

I'm curious what my fellow DMs out there think about this use of the spell or any other uses to modify party members.

Personally, since "shapechange" is a 9th level spell, I would also suggest that the other polymorph spells like "monstrous physique" and the undead one, and the vermin shapes would also be permissible.

I vote that Paizo should errata this into "shapechange" abilities.

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

my interpretation of the rules would suggest you could not have any walls blocking off where you want the designated landing spot for these intruding teleporters. There would need to be (some) open space from where they were teleporting into and where you direct them to.

However, that doesn't necessary fit with the examples they gave below:

"Pathfinders of the Grand Lodge make use of permanent teleport traps in several key locations, trapping would-be intruders in a small wing of jail cells. At least one crypt of the Whispering Tyrant makes use of the spell as well, trapping grave robbers in coffin-sized stone cysts, there to die a slow and agonizing death from thirst and starvation."

It seems like the intent of the spell does not match up with the RAW of the spell.

.well I found what I needed so I'm good.

Thanks for the quick reply, Wraith!

as I suspected, wraithstrike.

Talk of the sun and what not were examples I found from other threads on these boards. They didn't make sense to me.

.Everyone is wrong! (or maybe it's just me)
So far every post I have read about this spell, the poster has misused used the spell.
(I'm asking my players to stop reading here! Venom, Sparky, Cid!)

Using it wrong:

The spell I am talking about is "teleport trap".

According to Pathfinder rules the area you are redirecting any teleportation movement must be within the area of the spell:

"Teleport trap wards an area, redirecting all teleportation into or out of the area to a specific point within the area determined by you at the time of casting. The destination must be an open space on a solid surface."

So... you CAN NOT use teleport trap to redirect interlopers into the sun, the bottom of the lake, halfway around the world, etc.

It looks like you have to redirect any traffic into a specific spot within the 40-ft cube a level area specified in the "teleport trap" spell.

While this is helpful, I fail to see how that really stops a party of PCs. It merely slows them down for a round or two. (of course the defender will hopefully have something in the destination area to hinder/attack these intruders).

I am wrong here? Or can I use teleport trap to send unwanted teleport traffic somewhere outside of my castle?

.check out the "wounds and vigor" alternative rules concept. That might work for you.

(bottom of the page)

since you mentioned what this is *NOT* where would I find an optimization guide to polymorphing?

Good point, MPLindustries.

I think you might be right. casting "spell immunity: silence" would only provide immunity from someone casting (targeting) silence on the protected player, not make them immune to a silence spell already in effect.

.listening to "Clash of Kings" (Game of Thrones, book 2) the mp3 version!

awesome stuff.


@mysterious stranger, Thank you! That looks like an excellent suggestion on how to solve this challenge.

@venomblade, i don't see how a level one "bless" spell will counter the higher-level "unhallow" spell. Besides, "bless" just provides +1 on attack rolls and a bonus to saves versus fear.

a lot of replies have suggested archers. Yes, archers used to be a lot of fun until the party started putting "fickle winds" on every PC.

One you used listed all the "lessons" on beating the barbarian. You were mostly correct. at level 16, his CMD is outrageous 40 something.

I do try to target his will save when I can, but if he's raging, he does have a bonus.

Unfortunately, spell DCs do not scale with PC saves.

REMEMBER, the goal here is not to kill the barbarian or the party,
just to CHALLENGE the barbarian.

Again, I want to say thank you for all the wonderful suggestions. They have helped.

@Turin, I don't understand your comment about using the "Maze" spell. that could take the Barbarian out of the fight for quite a while. Most barbarians probably have a low intelligence score, meaning they would have to roll a "20" to get out of the Maze spell. I don't see how a targeted "dispel magic" would help the person inside the "maze" spell since they gone. The barbarian is physically in another plane. Are you suggesting the dispel would end the maze spell prematurely?

The PCs had their first encounter with High Wyrmlord Azarr Kul last night.

He definitely has a few minions and "protectors". I just want to avoid a PCs versus an army again. We've done that too many times.

(unfortunately, there was a shortage of throw-able children around. I'll have to save that for another bad guy)

.I am running a game and they PCs have reached the climatic fight where the BBEG sits inside an unhallowed area with a silence spell effect tied to it.
This has shut down any PC ability to speak or cast spells.

.we have been discussing how would someone remove the unhallow effect without casting the natural opposite hallow (because casting hallow takes too long to work).

After looking through the core book for spells, it seems like "break enchantment" is the best choice, but even break enchantment takes too long in a combat (one minute cast time).

.Are there any other solutions to remove the unhallow effect?

.Right now I am considering a little DM fiat and giving "greater dispel magic" a chance to work for the PCs.

.The PCs have access to 8th level spells.

.We did discuss the use of an anti-magic spell, but that's pretty extreme and has a very limited range and doesn't really help that much.

.There were suggestions that amounted to just completely remove or damage the FLOOR through various spells, (casting from the entry way into the room). That is not a very desirable solution and arguably just scraping away the top layer of the floor doesn't necessarily remove the unhallow effect for the entire area.

So I am just wondering if we missed something in the Pathfinder system that would let the PCs bring down the unhallow effect.

(note: no PCs have the silent spell feat, no one has any silent meta magic rods, yet.)

P.S. Not sure if it matters but we are playing a Pathfinder game and the adventure is an older 3.5 module. The unhallow/silence dynamic was written in the book by the designers. The designers discussed how this is a tough challenge for the PCs to overcome.

campaign spoiler (what adventure we are playing):

This is a heavily modified Red Hand of Doom game for high-level PCs

An awesome adventure and story!!

.little kids as thrown weapons? Genius!

I love all the suggestions.

I just want to say I've done the army of little guys before. It's fun. The PCs definitely get to shine. I just want to avoid having too many bad guys on the map since combat can slow down too much.

All hail the Paizo boards! You guys are awesome.

First and foremost I wanted to say, "thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, and thank you" for all the wonderful suggestions.

Really, some of your ideas are great. Some are quite amusing. They're all fun.

For the record, I am familiar with Tucker's Kobolds. I read about them years ago and have read their story more than once.

The CHALLENGE I have is that we have an overpowered player in combination with an overpowered team of PCs and most of them are pretty smart players to boot.

Does a barbarian have poor will saves? Yes, until he starts raging.

He'll kill anything within reach within a round or two.

The party knows what his weaknesses are. That's why they normally cast True Seeing on him so eliminate pesky problems like invisibility or mirror image or concealment.

This level 16 barbarian and most of the party usually has mass fly, energy resist 30 (all of them) and fickle winds, and freedom of movement already cast if they know they are going into battle.

If I can surprise them, then things are fine and I get a few rounds before the buffs go up.

If the party knows they are going to fight, then the buffs make it almost impossible to slow down or impede these guys, especially the barbarian.

I definitely appreciate all the suggestions.

As I said in the beginning, the problem as the DM is to challenge the players, not kill them.

I like wave of exhaustion and maze but the maze spell just might be too mean. I still want everyone to have fun and if you're not in the fight, that's really frustrating.

@dunebugg, I had not looked at the DivineScion, that is interesting. I definitely like the extra weapon feats a Dscion would get.

@starbuck_II, what is a God blooded template? What books are you using for these?

@Arizhel, wow! that's a lot of work building those characters. Thank you! I'm worried the party would chew through them pretty quick. One critical hit from the barbarian's sword and that halfing is dead.

@Oterisk, Now you're getting into the spirit! Cool ideas. I'm going to have to consider some of these. I'm glad someone suggested an environmental hazard.

The idea of an NPC with Stockholm syndrome is very clever!

@Tandriniel, I like the idea of a dragon disciple. it's very thematic with the story. I've been wondering is someone would suggest alternative classes or a prestige class.

@Yosarian, you are so RIGHT about the real challenge being his one round of actions versus the party's round of actions. part of the challenge is trying to play a BBEG that's smart than I am. ;-)

@wraithstrike, I had not even considered a diviner. I do like the idea of him calling in friends. I just don't want there to be too many bad guys. the last several fights have been the party vs. small armies.

@Dilvias, love the details. and definitely the glyphs on the floor. Here's a rule question for you: if a PC is flying, how close would they have to be for the glyph to activate with a proximity trigger?

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