Hey all,
Was just reviewing combat rules and an optional/houserule idea came into my head. What are your thoughts on having a kind of disabled/hurt condition applied (say only a standard or move action allowed) if hit points are below 50%? (Monsters too)
I would just like to simulate a real struggle a bit better rather than being at full strength one round and dying the next. This might also make in combat healing a more strategic option. I already use EL's strain/injury option and thought about adding this too. Any comments welcome.
Once one side gets more disabled than the other, I imagine the fight will end very quickly. Then again, some groups already have most combats lasting 3 or fewer rounds.
While I personally hate 4e dnd, I thought the bloodied rules and second wind ability every pc has was actually an interesting mechanic that simulated what you are looking for well.
I would just like to simulate a real struggle a bit better rather than being at full strength one round and dying the next.
This statement will get you into a lot of trouble when designing rules.
If your stated objective isn't very concrete, it'll be anyone's guess as to whether this rule accomplishes what you want.
With Hit Points, it's far better to avoid any talk of "simulation" and think of a few specific results that you feel are missing.
Note that hobbling full-round actions limits martial characters much more than it limits spellcasters, because most spells are standard actions. Designing rules that limit both types of combatant equally is actually quite difficult. It may be that you have a low-magic or martial-dominated campaign, and this kind of thing doesn't matter.
Since hit points are really a "story" simulator and not a "reality" simulator, it would be wiser to ask yourself: "What story elements pertaining to injury would I like to include?"
The answer to that question might lead you in a slightly different direction than changing the available actions at half HP.
This would just hasten the death spiral effect for the PCs or NPCs. Penalties for being at half HP might be workable but conditions like disabled are basically an excuse to get ganked.
A basic abstraction (Taking Evil Lincoln's suggestion, I like how you think Sir):
*Just know that I am coming from an odd angle here, I feel like people hit their peaks after they have taken some damage, as bodies go into overdrive, adrenaline starts pumping, etc.*
75% Health or more than 3 points of Ability damage: -1 to skills and concentration checks. +1 to attacks and damage rolls.
50% Health or more than 6 points of Ability damage: -2 to skills and concentration checks. +2 to attacks rolls. -2 to damage rolls.
25% Health or more than 10 points of Ability damage: -5 to skills and concentration checks. -5 to attacks and damage rolls. -2 to Armor Class and saving throws.
You can make them stack, which for the most part punishes your casters dramatically.
Hey all,
Was just reviewing combat rules and an optional/houserule idea came into my head. What are your thoughts on having a kind of disabled/hurt condition applied (say only a standard or move action allowed) if hit points are below 50%? (Monsters too)
I would just like to simulate a real struggle a bit better rather than being at full strength one round and dying the next. This might also make in combat healing a more strategic option. I already use EL's strain/injury option and thought about adding this too. Any comments welcome.
Well, I'm with you for wanting some kind of "fatigue/injury" mechanic, but I think what you propose is a little harsh.
First, technicalities; what you want is Staggered, as with Disabled you lose a hit point (and fall unconscious) after taking your one action. Also, I would lower the threshold to maybe 1/4 of max hit points.
Or perhaps you could use the Fatigued condition at a higher level, like say 1/3 or 1/2 hit points. Then you could impose Exhausted at 1/4 or 1/10 hit points.
-Cheers
The real problem with rules like this is they are nearly always death knells to low level characters, where even small minus' can wipe out their combat ability.
At high levels you have the HP's, combat time and abilitys to counter a loss of HP. At low level one good hit puts you at (for that level) a pretty large minus and will get you dead.
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The same effect could probably be had by just taking every character's max HP and chopping it in half.
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.check out the "wounds and vigor" alternative rules concept. That might work for you.
(bottom of the page)
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/variant-rules
check out the "wounds and vigor" alternative rules concept. That might work for you.
(bottom of the page)
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/variant-rules
I second that,
and why don't you try it the other way around: instead of penalizing those who have lost 50% or more hp, give any character who drops under 0 hp a Fortitude save to stay awake and be only disabled instead of unconcious/dying. I know this drains ferocity or diehard a bit, but it would support Evil Lincoln's "hp as story simulator".It also goes hand in hand with cinematic playstyle; I never liked that the rules didn't support what you see in every other action movie: the hero (or villain) is badly wounded, but still able to crawl the 30' over to the panel to hit the disable-(or disintegrate-)button.
Why is that? When you are unconcious and dying, you make one roll to stabilize. Just make a second roll, and the combination of the results will show whether you are concious/unconcious and stable/dying.
I've ben toying with this idea:
If you are under 50% hp roll a d10 along with your d20 when doing an action. If this die comes up as a natural 1 you have failed the task.
This die is a d6 at 25%.
Cheers! :D
This is still quite comfortable for casters.
One thing I've toyed with (but haven't convinced myself to implement) is the Condition Track from Star Wars SAGA edition. Basically you have hit points, but you also have a Fortitude defence (IIRC) which, if exceeded in a single attack, drops you down the condition track. You start suffering penalties as you move down, and you can do stuff to move back up. It's also handy to deal with poisons, diseases, psychological attacks and environmental hazards.
It would also require some hefty redesigning, which is why I've avoided it (plus, I use Hero Lab, which doesn't support it).
Still, might be worth a look for you...
You could do a Vitality/Wound thing for HP.
Vit is just like HP, minor scratches, injuries, Wounds are more deadly/disabling.
There is a variant in the Pathfinder SRD similar, have you looked at it?
Thanks for the ideas all. As I said, I'm currently using Evil Lincoln's ( and others) strain/injury variant and our group of two fighters, rogue, and alchemist enjoy it. I'll look into wounds and vigor a bit closer as a next step.
A thought I've had about such systems is that if you want to implement something like this you need to raise the amount of HP first, maybe give everyone their MAX HP per level and some bonus HP at level 1, as it stands now a character who is at half or 25% HP is usually in enough trouble as it is.
First, start using your crit deck or wound location dice at half or quarter hits.
Second, these rules only apply after a creature cracks the 20 hits fully healed ceiling.
Third, head trauma for undead means their head falls off and their field of view stays with it. The same with constructs.
I hope this helps. If it enhances the fun of the game, gopher it!
Why don't you simply turn it all around? Instead of penalizing characters for falling below a certain threshold, give a small morale bonus to characters who manage to stay above that threshold.
A +1 on rolls for AOOs, for example, or maybe even a morale bonus on Saves? Nothing more powerful than what you could accomplish with a cantrip to keep the balance.
I wouldn't mind implementing that kind of house rule and it does mirror what we find in cinematics and often real life as well: If you get hit, you feel it and you might get desperate. You lose morale. So, make it a bonus for those who manage to not get hit. ;)