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Well here is my reasoning. Rolling is super fun plus it isn't like the Paladin is STUCK with that 1 with only nine days of down time he has his four. But the base idea is just allow people to pick from the base of what they would normal or allow to to at least train it up higher from there if their roll is same or lesser. It is just a thought.


This is a pretty basic idea I came up with because I'm a lover of fighters and Paladins. But they get short changed on the skills rather hard even with a skill bump and use of background skills I often just feel like the big juicy meat for the skill monkey type to stand behind which in some RP events made me feel VERY left out. My fix? Easy

For anything that would get 2 skill per level plus int give them 1D4(or average round down, It would still be 2) And allow them to spend the same time they would training their HP up to train to their max skill dice. If you think this is unfair to the 4+int skill users easy fix, Give them a D6, Etc. Following this logic the rogue with the most skill points gets a mighty powerful D10+int and it would more than likely raise the powerlevel of the group but that is at the very least my fix to the problem...Or just bump all the 2+int to 4+int and call it a day.


Alright, Thank you all this has been helpful. As for it getting too powerful no builds come to mind which would shatter the game. But that doesn't mean there isn't one hiding int he raw begging for abuse. But that isn't the problem or topic it was weather or not they could and it seems they infact can Multi Class with their parent and What would you call a hybrid class that shares a parent. Sibling class? What ever again thank you.


Rysky wrote:

Uh, and what "big point of the first book" are you talking about?

If you mean things like Ninja, Samurai, and Antipaladins those aren't Hybrids but Alternates.

I am talking about Hybrid classes, The bloodrager, Warpriest, Etc


Rysky wrote:

... that wasn't an Errata, they've been able to do that since the ACG's debut.

They just couldn't multiclass with one of the parents in the Playtest.

Are you sure about that. I could have sworn that I saw that in the full release of the books. I will have to check to see if what I have is out of date. It seems like it would be fairly powerful otherwise is why I would like to make sure this was cleared up.


Alright so I was told that the Hybrid classes got an Errata that allows them to Multi class with one of their parent classes. Now this sound insane and wrong since that was a big point of the first book of you can't do that or mix another Hybrid class if they had shared parent classes. Something I was also told was changed.

So I started looking and found...Nothing Not a thing. So maybe some one here can offer me a link or source for this claim before I start getting back in pathfinder as some of my favorite classes came from the Hybrid book and I would like to make full proper use of them if I can. I just want it cleared up is all. Thanks ahead of time


I was wondering can a Witch with the Hex of Healing brew potions of cure light wounds by using up a hex? It says it functions as the spell but I'm not sure.


Sorry for having a harder time reading through the whole thing but has any one suggested single nerfing her standard forms of AC by dropping her armor/Buff Spells and just upping her touch AC through the rings of Deflection and Protection? Which give Deflect and Dodge AC Which both go to touch. Her CMD will also go up if that was an issue.

I know I suggested super DM power rule last time but this is just basic gear she could have and it would target out almost just the Gunslinger while leaving her static AC to every one else pretty much the same


Well, I hope I'm not to late to offer my helpful advice...Which will seem very, very, simple.

You're the dungeon master it sounds like so make something up. You are in no way bound to the rules of the game as written. Not a single boss in my game uses only static from the book rules and I adjust and fudge on the fly as I feel nerfs and buffs might be needed. I find it keeps players on their toes and it isn't like it is out of no where I tend to give hints that these new powers are in and about.

But if you are still a hard sticker to those pesky rules because you're worried about upsetting your group you were given many tools in the kit to help with that. Whip open Ultimate magic and build your self a custom spell. Off the top of my head some sort of mod of stone skin which buffs up touch AC against ranged attacks.

Also just some advice for any and all dungeon Masters, get a set of fudge dice. With some clever usage they can be a great deal of fun to use for the more RP stuff and some soft combats


Alright so I was thinking about running a flip Vigilante where the social side was treated as the lesser used and the Vigilante side was a well known Gladiator. I wanted him to have a VERY flashy style of combat and I came up with the idea of mixing Star Tosser style with a Large or Huge Starknife since it's size doesn't effect the fact it is a throwing weapon and only stops me from using weapon Finesse on it. (Easy fix with magic items)

I know I'll be taking a -4 to hit but the idea of a Ring fighter bouncing this giant star of doom about his foes seems like just the type of over flash I was looking for with the character. But I was wondering if any one had any better ideas for me, or tips of how to improve the idea all together.


Well in truth my question was does the feat override that rule or not. But thank you I'll be sure to show my friend this.


Okay so this feat says Prerequisites: Goblin.

Benefit: You can wield Medium firearms without taking the penalty for an inappropriately sized weapon.

Normal: You take a –2 penalty when using an inappropriately sized weapon.

I don't believe this allows me to wield a two handed Medium firearm. Though afew friends were asking about it. Any FAQ's or hard ruling on that?


I was just wandering about it's real usefulness as a whole class feature. I guess since it isn't magic based can give you an edge and how nice your DM is with playing fast and loose with rules.


Am I the only one who doesn't fully get the purpose of Voice mimicry? Is it, Doesn't Disguise help cover that on it's own if not why would this take a WHOLE archetype to fix or add. Is this for like something you can do REALLY fast like out of sight. Like guards are trying to get into a door and rather than the 1d3 minutes to put on the full Disguise who can shout through the door? OR what.


I'm very aware of that. One of my favorite items for this one crazy anime build I got where this guy uses a large Elven Curve Blade. But thank you for the effort and help in my stupid question post.


That is what I know. I was just wanting to know if they ever made a statement about it. For me it being lighter in weight and the DR/Silver is good enough. Just a finessed long sword with out a late game four feat sink would be nice. But thanks maybe some one else has heard of something buried deep down in the forums.


Okay since armor for all things class and feat related are treated as a step lighter when made out of Mithral. Has there ever been any rules or standing that a one handed weapon made out of it being able to count as a light for Finesse? Or is it just like a home brew thing. I looked around and while it makes some sense I can't find anything that would allow it


So if I picked up Weapon Focus Ray. Does that count for both Ray of Frost and say Scorching Ray or would I have to pick up one for each?


Well..If a Rouge can use Evasion in a Mithrail breast plate I wouldn't see why it would stop a trait.


So does Ray of Frost, Since it is a ray that counts as a weapon which can be focused and Speced for can you Point blank Shot it?


I need some tips how I can make my War priest, Who is a knight in story. Have enough skill points with in the first three levels to better show study and combat. But I'm being strong armed by a 15 point buy and really only have a chance to pick one. I'm human but I got rid of the feat and skill point for 2 +2. Which made my stat lay out 14,12,12,12,16,12 Which works really well for the mid maxing of the stats. I was already suggested that I don't do that and take a 14, 12, 12, 12, 14, 12. Since my 6th level spells will be way down the road anyways and that gives me my human skill point per level back...Also a feat. So Advice or tips. Any other way to squeeze skill points into my list or are those my only two choices. One right...I get ONE trait. Which I used to reduce Armor check pen by 1


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First of all Wraithstrike, I'm Excited to see you in my thread. But no I don't have a detailed example I can give you. I was merely fishing for people to take my side, But I can admit when I'm mostly on the wrong. Even if I don't agree with it I can understand why it is more common or likely player control gets taken away then allowed to keep it. Thanks all the same for a very insightful discussion on the matter!


I guess the balance and setting a snowball effect through out the party is a fair point. Like saying well he got to be a lich, i want to be a half dragon. Which power is just...Off the chart. While I my self have had a half dragon character for a session which I dropped because of the power level issue I am starting to see some more the more reasonable points. If only those were the points my game masters took. But still just the act alone of taking a character sheet levels this awful bitter and sour taste in my mouth. Even if the reason is perfectly there, and I can't get over it. Just makes me feel nasty when I see it and unless it is a retiring player I watched it rip parties apart and end games. So maybe I've just had bad tables and it's left me biased.


Wow, I was thinking there would be a lot more support on my side for this. I knew I would get counter points but they are all the points that I shrugged off before. The no evil rule is the only one that was brought up int his thread that would really count if I was asked about it. But we aren't playing by PFS rules so that is hardly the case. But the idea that a player who becomes a lich has to give up on his story for good is nothing short of game ending for me. Don't think to see me back at the table next week. While a Vampire even has suggested rules in the Blood of the night book for playing one. I think it is mainly a case of
GM fear the players
Which I have always found silly. If as a GM you are playing against the players you've messed up down the line VERY VERY badly.

So what is the other case for this? Party infighting? I don't know about the rest of you but that is where some of the best story bits happen. The paladin wanting to slay the lich, who then points out that his new power is JUST what they needed to stop the evil mega doom boss and that he would be wiser to slay him after that, or the monster hunter gunning for a werewolf or vampire who didn't have a choice and tries to get a cure from the hunter. Look Quest just popped up.

So to sum up. I see a lot of your points and just CAN'T get behind them. Again I support the act when it comes to Feral Werewolves and Mind control, Or even an anti evil wall. Which means this shouldn't be a problem to begin with. But other than that...Nah bad manner to steal a character.


Well nearly all of my DMs have this rule that if the player gains some sort of template that they suddenly shouldn't have control over the character. With some cases like Werewolves i find it understandable that during the full moon or forced change that a none natural Werewolf wouldn't have control over the character. But my DMs won't stop there. Lich and Vampire are also suddenly you can't play that character anymore. I find that just an awful choice for a DM to do. It is only under rare cases I find it is okay for a DM to request the character sheet from a player for the purposes of control, anything sort of a mind control spell or feral werebeast or even a retired character. I would say those are the ONLY three things I can think of. At least from the top of my head. Any thoughts of those who agree or don't agree?


Okay, So here is the question. I want to make a Kensai using a wakizashi at the start, But when I get the power to Finesse a Katana.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
A kensai is proficient in simple weapons and in a single martial or exotic melee weapon of his choice. A kensai is not proficient with armor or shields and suffers normal arcane spell failure chance when casting magus spells while armored.

It says i can pick a weapon I am proficient with. This means I can retrain it as part of the class feature rules, right? That was the first question second question is how long will this take, Around retraining I'm going to be 9th or 11th level.

Sum it up. Can i do it, and how long will it take.


Okay, I found a way to Finesse my Katana on my Magus. The down side is it doesn't come into play until 9th level. But I think I found a fix. I recall a magic item which can reduce a weapon from a one handed weapon to a light weapon and a two handed weapon to a one handed weapon. But I can't for the life of me find it. Any one here know the item or have a better idea for now to make this work? I'm working on a very strict 15 point buy so it is dex or str can't have both


Here comes a new Challenger! The weapon master hand book gives you the chance to Finesse with anything your heart pleases. A little tricky for anything not straight a fighter but the Kensai gets an edge up. It'll take you until 9th level but you'll be finessing with the weapon master feat. Just take the feat that gives you weapon training.


I'm looking to build a sword and pistol Pirate character, I'm seeking the best way around the reload problem of two weapon fighting with it. Only simple firearms are a real choice. If I want to keep the fluff while being a bit pricey i could take the quick draw and have a few pistols on my person. But that seems a bit like madness. Anyways any advice would be looked at lovingly with the hope there is a better choice than quick draw or weapon cord.


I'm sure this was answered before. I know that there is an archetype called the titan mauler which lets you use a two handed weapon of your proper size at a -2 in one hand and that was a feature which let you do that...But then I found this

Thunder and Fang (Combat)

You have mastered the ancient Thunder and Fang fighting style, allowing you to fight with increased effectiveness when wielding an earth breaker and klar.

Prerequisite: Str 15, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (earth breaker), Weapon Focus (klar)

Benefit:You can use an earth breaker as though it were a one-handed weapon. When using an earth breaker in one hand and a klar in your off hand, you retain the shield bonus your klar grants to your Armor Class even when you use it to attack. Treat your klar as a light weapon for the purposes of determining your two-weapon fighting penalty.

Normal: An earth breaker is a two-handed weapon, preventing the use of a klar in one hand without imposing penalties for using the earth breaker one-handed. A klar can be used either as a one-handed weapon or a shield; it does not grant a bonus to AC during rounds in which it is used as a weapon.

Now it clearly states taking penalties for using an earth breaker one handed. Which has me all jumbled up. The only thing I can think of us using an earth breaker one size smaller than you making it one handed not two. Is there something I missed in the rules some where that had made the titan Mauler's Class feature worthless?


Alright so I'm wanting to run a shaman but I found the feat Unfettered Familiar, Does my spirit animal count as a Familiar for taking this feat? I believe it does but having back up or if it doesn't would go along way with my Dungeon master if it can't or can.


MeanMutton wrote:
They're just adding the two missiles together. They can strike the same target but on rare occasions will attack different ones. Each missile is 1d4+1.

Okay thank you so much, I just didn't understand why it was worded like it was in all the forums, Something about how it catches my eyes. I mean if that damage was to each missile it would make sense of why there are so many items/spells to just stop it lol.


I'm not often a spell caster so i had a question about Magic Missile's damage. I know it is 1d4+1 and you get an extra missile every two levels but I've been seeing people showing 2d4+2. Does that mean every missile gets +2 damage or do i pick a target to get that extra damage. Like is it (1d4+2, 1d4+2) Or is it (1d4+2, 1d4) Or (1d4+1, 1d4+1) Again sorry I'm not good at understanding magic all that well, and please have a book name or a linked source. Game masters are very heavy sticklers for that kinda thing


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