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Well here is my reasoning. Rolling is super fun plus it isn't like the Paladin is STUCK with that 1 with only nine days of down time he has his four. But the base idea is just allow people to pick from the base of what they would normal or allow to to at least train it up higher from there if their roll is same or lesser. It is just a thought.


This is a pretty basic idea I came up with because I'm a lover of fighters and Paladins. But they get short changed on the skills rather hard even with a skill bump and use of background skills I often just feel like the big juicy meat for the skill monkey type to stand behind which in some RP events made me feel VERY left out. My fix? Easy

For anything that would get 2 skill per level plus int give them 1D4(or average round down, It would still be 2) And allow them to spend the same time they would training their HP up to train to their max skill dice. If you think this is unfair to the 4+int skill users easy fix, Give them a D6, Etc. Following this logic the rogue with the most skill points gets a mighty powerful D10+int and it would more than likely raise the powerlevel of the group but that is at the very least my fix to the problem...Or just bump all the 2+int to 4+int and call it a day.


Alright, Thank you all this has been helpful. As for it getting too powerful no builds come to mind which would shatter the game. But that doesn't mean there isn't one hiding int he raw begging for abuse. But that isn't the problem or topic it was weather or not they could and it seems they infact can Multi Class with their parent and What would you call a hybrid class that shares a parent. Sibling class? What ever again thank you.


Rysky wrote:

Uh, and what "big point of the first book" are you talking about?

If you mean things like Ninja, Samurai, and Antipaladins those aren't Hybrids but Alternates.

I am talking about Hybrid classes, The bloodrager, Warpriest, Etc


Rysky wrote:

... that wasn't an Errata, they've been able to do that since the ACG's debut.

They just couldn't multiclass with one of the parents in the Playtest.

Are you sure about that. I could have sworn that I saw that in the full release of the books. I will have to check to see if what I have is out of date. It seems like it would be fairly powerful otherwise is why I would like to make sure this was cleared up.


Alright so I was told that the Hybrid classes got an Errata that allows them to Multi class with one of their parent classes. Now this sound insane and wrong since that was a big point of the first book of you can't do that or mix another Hybrid class if they had shared parent classes. Something I was also told was changed.

So I started looking and found...Nothing Not a thing. So maybe some one here can offer me a link or source for this claim before I start getting back in pathfinder as some of my favorite classes came from the Hybrid book and I would like to make full proper use of them if I can. I just want it cleared up is all. Thanks ahead of time


I was wondering can a Witch with the Hex of Healing brew potions of cure light wounds by using up a hex? It says it functions as the spell but I'm not sure.


Sorry for having a harder time reading through the whole thing but has any one suggested single nerfing her standard forms of AC by dropping her armor/Buff Spells and just upping her touch AC through the rings of Deflection and Protection? Which give Deflect and Dodge AC Which both go to touch. Her CMD will also go up if that was an issue.

I know I suggested super DM power rule last time but this is just basic gear she could have and it would target out almost just the Gunslinger while leaving her static AC to every one else pretty much the same


Well, I hope I'm not to late to offer my helpful advice...Which will seem very, very, simple.

You're the dungeon master it sounds like so make something up. You are in no way bound to the rules of the game as written. Not a single boss in my game uses only static from the book rules and I adjust and fudge on the fly as I feel nerfs and buffs might be needed. I find it keeps players on their toes and it isn't like it is out of no where I tend to give hints that these new powers are in and about.

But if you are still a hard sticker to those pesky rules because you're worried about upsetting your group you were given many tools in the kit to help with that. Whip open Ultimate magic and build your self a custom spell. Off the top of my head some sort of mod of stone skin which buffs up touch AC against ranged attacks.

Also just some advice for any and all dungeon Masters, get a set of fudge dice. With some clever usage they can be a great deal of fun to use for the more RP stuff and some soft combats


Alright so I was thinking about running a flip Vigilante where the social side was treated as the lesser used and the Vigilante side was a well known Gladiator. I wanted him to have a VERY flashy style of combat and I came up with the idea of mixing Star Tosser style with a Large or Huge Starknife since it's size doesn't effect the fact it is a throwing weapon and only stops me from using weapon Finesse on it. (Easy fix with magic items)

I know I'll be taking a -4 to hit but the idea of a Ring fighter bouncing this giant star of doom about his foes seems like just the type of over flash I was looking for with the character. But I was wondering if any one had any better ideas for me, or tips of how to improve the idea all together.


Well in truth my question was does the feat override that rule or not. But thank you I'll be sure to show my friend this.


Okay so this feat says Prerequisites: Goblin.

Benefit: You can wield Medium firearms without taking the penalty for an inappropriately sized weapon.

Normal: You take a –2 penalty when using an inappropriately sized weapon.

I don't believe this allows me to wield a two handed Medium firearm. Though afew friends were asking about it. Any FAQ's or hard ruling on that?


I was just wandering about it's real usefulness as a whole class feature. I guess since it isn't magic based can give you an edge and how nice your DM is with playing fast and loose with rules.


Am I the only one who doesn't fully get the purpose of Voice mimicry? Is it, Doesn't Disguise help cover that on it's own if not why would this take a WHOLE archetype to fix or add. Is this for like something you can do REALLY fast like out of sight. Like guards are trying to get into a door and rather than the 1d3 minutes to put on the full Disguise who can shout through the door? OR what.


I'm very aware of that. One of my favorite items for this one crazy anime build I got where this guy uses a large Elven Curve Blade. But thank you for the effort and help in my stupid question post.


That is what I know. I was just wanting to know if they ever made a statement about it. For me it being lighter in weight and the DR/Silver is good enough. Just a finessed long sword with out a late game four feat sink would be nice. But thanks maybe some one else has heard of something buried deep down in the forums.


Okay since armor for all things class and feat related are treated as a step lighter when made out of Mithral. Has there ever been any rules or standing that a one handed weapon made out of it being able to count as a light for Finesse? Or is it just like a home brew thing. I looked around and while it makes some sense I can't find anything that would allow it


So if I picked up Weapon Focus Ray. Does that count for both Ray of Frost and say Scorching Ray or would I have to pick up one for each?


Well..If a Rouge can use Evasion in a Mithrail breast plate I wouldn't see why it would stop a trait.


So does Ray of Frost, Since it is a ray that counts as a weapon which can be focused and Speced for can you Point blank Shot it?


I need some tips how I can make my War priest, Who is a knight in story. Have enough skill points with in the first three levels to better show study and combat. But I'm being strong armed by a 15 point buy and really only have a chance to pick one. I'm human but I got rid of the feat and skill point for 2 +2. Which made my stat lay out 14,12,12,12,16,12 Which works really well for the mid maxing of the stats. I was already suggested that I don't do that and take a 14, 12, 12, 12, 14, 12. Since my 6th level spells will be way down the road anyways and that gives me my human skill point per level back...Also a feat. So Advice or tips. Any other way to squeeze skill points into my list or are those my only two choices. One right...I get ONE trait. Which I used to reduce Armor check pen by 1


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First of all Wraithstrike, I'm Excited to see you in my thread. But no I don't have a detailed example I can give you. I was merely fishing for people to take my side, But I can admit when I'm mostly on the wrong. Even if I don't agree with it I can understand why it is more common or likely player control gets taken away then allowed to keep it. Thanks all the same for a very insightful discussion on the matter!


I guess the balance and setting a snowball effect through out the party is a fair point. Like saying well he got to be a lich, i want to be a half dragon. Which power is just...Off the chart. While I my self have had a half dragon character for a session which I dropped because of the power level issue I am starting to see some more the more reasonable points. If only those were the points my game masters took. But still just the act alone of taking a character sheet levels this awful bitter and sour taste in my mouth. Even if the reason is perfectly there, and I can't get over it. Just makes me feel nasty when I see it and unless it is a retiring player I watched it rip parties apart and end games. So maybe I've just had bad tables and it's left me biased.


Wow, I was thinking there would be a lot more support on my side for this. I knew I would get counter points but they are all the points that I shrugged off before. The no evil rule is the only one that was brought up int his thread that would really count if I was asked about it. But we aren't playing by PFS rules so that is hardly the case. But the idea that a player who becomes a lich has to give up on his story for good is nothing short of game ending for me. Don't think to see me back at the table next week. While a Vampire even has suggested rules in the Blood of the night book for playing one. I think it is mainly a case of
GM fear the players
Which I have always found silly. If as a GM you are playing against the players you've messed up down the line VERY VERY badly.

So what is the other case for this? Party infighting? I don't know about the rest of you but that is where some of the best story bits happen. The paladin wanting to slay the lich, who then points out that his new power is JUST what they needed to stop the evil mega doom boss and that he would be wiser to slay him after that, or the monster hunter gunning for a werewolf or vampire who didn't have a choice and tries to get a cure from the hunter. Look Quest just popped up.

So to sum up. I see a lot of your points and just CAN'T get behind them. Again I support the act when it comes to Feral Werewolves and Mind control, Or even an anti evil wall. Which means this shouldn't be a problem to begin with. But other than that...Nah bad manner to steal a character.


Well nearly all of my DMs have this rule that if the player gains some sort of template that they suddenly shouldn't have control over the character. With some cases like Werewolves i find it understandable that during the full moon or forced change that a none natural Werewolf wouldn't have control over the character. But my DMs won't stop there. Lich and Vampire are also suddenly you can't play that character anymore. I find that just an awful choice for a DM to do. It is only under rare cases I find it is okay for a DM to request the character sheet from a player for the purposes of control, anything sort of a mind control spell or feral werebeast or even a retired character. I would say those are the ONLY three things I can think of. At least from the top of my head. Any thoughts of those who agree or don't agree?


Okay, So here is the question. I want to make a Kensai using a wakizashi at the start, But when I get the power to Finesse a Katana.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
A kensai is proficient in simple weapons and in a single martial or exotic melee weapon of his choice. A kensai is not proficient with armor or shields and suffers normal arcane spell failure chance when casting magus spells while armored.

It says i can pick a weapon I am proficient with. This means I can retrain it as part of the class feature rules, right? That was the first question second question is how long will this take, Around retraining I'm going to be 9th or 11th level.

Sum it up. Can i do it, and how long will it take.


Okay, I found a way to Finesse my Katana on my Magus. The down side is it doesn't come into play until 9th level. But I think I found a fix. I recall a magic item which can reduce a weapon from a one handed weapon to a light weapon and a two handed weapon to a one handed weapon. But I can't for the life of me find it. Any one here know the item or have a better idea for now to make this work? I'm working on a very strict 15 point buy so it is dex or str can't have both


Here comes a new Challenger! The weapon master hand book gives you the chance to Finesse with anything your heart pleases. A little tricky for anything not straight a fighter but the Kensai gets an edge up. It'll take you until 9th level but you'll be finessing with the weapon master feat. Just take the feat that gives you weapon training.


I'm looking to build a sword and pistol Pirate character, I'm seeking the best way around the reload problem of two weapon fighting with it. Only simple firearms are a real choice. If I want to keep the fluff while being a bit pricey i could take the quick draw and have a few pistols on my person. But that seems a bit like madness. Anyways any advice would be looked at lovingly with the hope there is a better choice than quick draw or weapon cord.


I'm sure this was answered before. I know that there is an archetype called the titan mauler which lets you use a two handed weapon of your proper size at a -2 in one hand and that was a feature which let you do that...But then I found this

Thunder and Fang (Combat)

You have mastered the ancient Thunder and Fang fighting style, allowing you to fight with increased effectiveness when wielding an earth breaker and klar.

Prerequisite: Str 15, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (earth breaker), Weapon Focus (klar)

Benefit:You can use an earth breaker as though it were a one-handed weapon. When using an earth breaker in one hand and a klar in your off hand, you retain the shield bonus your klar grants to your Armor Class even when you use it to attack. Treat your klar as a light weapon for the purposes of determining your two-weapon fighting penalty.

Normal: An earth breaker is a two-handed weapon, preventing the use of a klar in one hand without imposing penalties for using the earth breaker one-handed. A klar can be used either as a one-handed weapon or a shield; it does not grant a bonus to AC during rounds in which it is used as a weapon.

Now it clearly states taking penalties for using an earth breaker one handed. Which has me all jumbled up. The only thing I can think of us using an earth breaker one size smaller than you making it one handed not two. Is there something I missed in the rules some where that had made the titan Mauler's Class feature worthless?


Alright so I'm wanting to run a shaman but I found the feat Unfettered Familiar, Does my spirit animal count as a Familiar for taking this feat? I believe it does but having back up or if it doesn't would go along way with my Dungeon master if it can't or can.


MeanMutton wrote:
They're just adding the two missiles together. They can strike the same target but on rare occasions will attack different ones. Each missile is 1d4+1.

Okay thank you so much, I just didn't understand why it was worded like it was in all the forums, Something about how it catches my eyes. I mean if that damage was to each missile it would make sense of why there are so many items/spells to just stop it lol.


I'm not often a spell caster so i had a question about Magic Missile's damage. I know it is 1d4+1 and you get an extra missile every two levels but I've been seeing people showing 2d4+2. Does that mean every missile gets +2 damage or do i pick a target to get that extra damage. Like is it (1d4+2, 1d4+2) Or is it (1d4+2, 1d4) Or (1d4+1, 1d4+1) Again sorry I'm not good at understanding magic all that well, and please have a book name or a linked source. Game masters are very heavy sticklers for that kinda thing

Full Name

Kai the Crane; Kai the Underfoot

Race

Halfling

Classes/Levels

Underfoot Adept Master of Many Forms 5

Gender

NEVER USED Male

Size

Small

Age

25

Alignment

LN

Location

Ustolav

Languages

Common, Halfling, Elf

Strength 10
Dexterity 20
Constitution 14
Intelligence 12
Wisdom 16
Charisma 9

About Kai the Crane

Kai is a 3ft tall male with tanned skin and worn clothes common among travelers. He has black hair and green eyes. He walks around barefoot and has heavily calloused feet.

    HP: 36
    AC: 21 =10 +1 Size +1 Monk +3 WIS +5 DEX + 1 Armor
    Init: +5
    Resist: Evasion
    Immune: Disease

    SAVES
    F: +7 +4 +2 CON +1 Racial
    R: +10 +4 +5 DEX +1 Racial
    W: +8 +4 +3 WIS +1 Racial
    +2 racial bonus vs Fear
    +2 Trait bonus vs Fear
    +2 vs Enchantment

    COMBAT:

    OFFENSE (+1 Size to attack rolls)
    Unarmed Strike (Magic), +9 melee, 1d6 dmg, crit x2, melee

    DEFENSE
    Fighting Defensively: Part of Attack Action, -1 to hit, +4 Dodge to AC (+2 Base, +1 Acrobatics, +1 Feat)
    Total Defense: Standard Action, +7 Dodge to AC (4 base, +2 Acrobatics, +1 Feat)
    In both instances, can deflect one melee weapon attack per turn. You expend no action to deflect the attack, but you must be aware of it and not flat-footed. An attack so deflected deals no damage to you.
    After deflection, can make an attack of opportunity.

    BAB +3 (Equal to Monk levels for CMB/CMD)
    CMB +4 (-1 Size factored in)(Disarm, Sunder, Trip use DEX, so add +5)
    CMD 23 (-1 Size factored in)
    Treated as Medium for Trip and +3 to CMB/CMD for Trip attempts, Trip doesn't provoke AoO

    Racial Abilities:

    =====Standard Racial Traits=====
  • Ability Score Racial Traits: Halflings are nimble and strong-willed, but their small stature makes them weaker than other races. They gain +2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma, and –2 Strength.
  • Size: Halflings are Small creatures and gain a +1 size bonus to their AC, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, a –1 penalty to their CMB and CMD, and a +4 size bonus on Stealth checks.
  • Fleet of Foot: Some halflings are quicker than their kin but less cautious. Halflings with this racial trait move at normal speed and have a base speed of 30 feet. This racial trait replaces slow speed and sure-footed.
  • Languages: Halflings begin play speaking Common and Halfling. Halflings with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following: Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, and Goblin. See the Linguistics skill page for more information about these languages.
    =====Defense Racial Traits=====
  • Fearless: Halflings receive a +2 racial bonus on all saving throws against fear. This bonus stacks with the bonus granted by halfling luck.
  • Halfling Luck: Halflings receive a +1 racial bonus on all saving throws.
    =====Offense Racial Traits=====
  • Weapon Familiarity: Halflings are proficient with slings and treat any weapon with the word “halfling” in its name as a martial weapon.
    =====Senses Racial Traits=====
  • Keen Senses: Halflings receive a +2 racial bonus on Perception checks.

    Additional Favored Class Option: Add +1 to the monk's CMD when resisting a grapple and +1/2 to the number of stunning attacks he can attempt per day.
    Choices: Skill point x5

  • Class Abilities:

    Weapon Proficiency: Monks are proficient with the brass knuckles, cestus, club, crossbow (light or heavy), dagger, handaxe, javelin, kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shortspear, short sword, shuriken, siangham, sling, spear and temple sword.

    AC Bonus (Ex): When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds his Wisdom bonus (if any) to his AC and his CMD. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC and CMD at 4th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every four monk levels thereafter, up to a maximum of +5 at 20th level.

    These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the monk is flat-footed. He loses these bonuses when he is immobilized or helpless, when he wears any armor, when he carries a shield, or when he carries a medium or heavy load.

    Fuse Style (Ex): At 1st level, a master of many styles can fuse two of the styles he knows into a more perfect style. The master of many styles can have two style feat stances active at once. Starting a stance provided by a style feat is still a swift action, but when the master of many styles switches to another style feat, he can choose one style whose stance is already active to persist. He may only have two style feat stances active at a time. At 8th level, the master of many styles can fuse three styles at once. He can have the stances of three style feats active at the same time. Furthermore, he can enter up to three stances as a swift action.

    At 15th level, the master of many styles can fuse four styles at once. He can have the stances of four style feats active at the same time. Furthermore, he can enter up to four stances as a free action by spending 1 point from his ki pool.

    This ability replaces flurry of blows.

    Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk's attacks may be with fist, elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may make unarmed strikes with his hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply his full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all his unarmed strikes.

    Usually a monk's unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but he can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on his attack roll. He has the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling.

    A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

    A monk also deals more damage with his unarmed strikes than a normal person would, as shown above on Table: monk. The unarmed damage values listed on Table: monk is for Medium monks. A Small monk deals less damage than the amount given there with his unarmed attacks, while a Large monk deals more damage; see Table: Small or Large monk Unarmed Damage.

    Bonus Feat: At 1st level, 2nd level, and every four levels thereafter, a master of many styles may select a bonus style feat or the Elemental Fist feat. He does not have to meet the prerequisites of that feat, except the Elemental Fist feat. Alternatively, a master of many styles may choose a feat in that style’s feat path (such as Earth Child Topple) as one of these bonus feats if he already has the appropriate style feat (such as Earth Child Style). The master of many styles does not need to meet any other prerequisite of the feat in the style’s feat path. This ability replaces a monk’s standard bonus feats.

    Underfoot Grace (Ex): At 1st level, an underfoot adept uses his size and grace to avoid the attacks of those he passes. When using the Acrobatics skill to avoid attacks of opportunity by moving through a threatened area or an enemy's space, he only takes a –5 penalty when doing so at full speed, instead of the normal –10 penalty. This ability replaces the bonus feat gained at 1st level.

    Underfoot Trip (Ex): At 1st level, an underfoot adept learns a number of maneuvers and grabs that can cause even the largest opponents to stumble and fall. He gains Improved Trip as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the requirements. At 4th level, and every four levels thereafter, he acts as if he is one size larger for the purposes of determining the maximum size of creatures he can trip and when determining his CMB and CMD for purposes of a trip combat maneuver. This ability replaces stunning fist.

    Evasion (Ex): At 2nd level or higher, a monk can avoid damage from many area-effect attacks. If a monk makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if a monk is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless monk does not gain the benefit of evasion.

    Fast Movement (Ex): [40ft] At 3rd level, a monk gains an enhancement bonus to his land speed, as shown on Table: monk. A monk in armor or carrying a medium or heavy load loses this extra speed.

    Maneuver Training (Ex): At 3rd level, a monk uses his monk level in place of his base attack bonus when calculating his Combat Maneuver Bonus. Base attack bonuses granted from other classes are unaffected and are added normally.

    Still Mind (Ex): A monk of 3rd level or higher gains a +2 bonus on saving throws against enchantment spells and effects.

    Ki Pool (Su): [Ki: 5] At 4th level, a monk gains a pool of ki points, supernatural energy he can use to accomplish amazing feats. The number of points in a monk's ki pool is equal to 1/2 his monk level + his Wisdom modifier. As long as he has at least 1 point in his ki pool, he can make a ki strike.

  • At 4th level, ki strike allows his unarmed attacks to be treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Ki strike improves with the character's monk level.
  • At 10th level, his unarmed attacks are also treated as lawful weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
  • At 16th level, his unarmed attacks are treated as adamantine weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction and bypassing hardness.

    By spending 1 point from his ki pool, a monk can do one of the following:

  • Make one additional attack at his highest attack bonus when making a flurry of blows attack, or
  • Increase his speed by 20 feet for 1 round, or
  • Give himself a +4 dodge bonus to AC for 1 round.

    Each of these powers is activated as a swift action.

    The ki pool is replenished each morning after 8 hours of rest or meditation; these hours do not need to be consecutive.

    Slow Fall (Ex): At 4th level or higher, a monk within arm's reach of a wall can use it to slow his descent. When first gaining this ability, he takes damage as if the fall were 20 feet shorter than it actually is. The monk's ability to slow his fall (that is, to reduce the effective distance of the fall when next to a wall) improves with his monk level until at 20th level he can use a nearby wall to slow his descent and fall any distance without harm.

    Improved Underfoot Grace (Ex): At 5th level, an underfoot adept's ability to avoid attacks of opportunity against those he passes improves. When using the Acrobatics skill to avoid attacks of opportunity, while moving through a threatened area or through an enemy's space, he takes no penalty when doing so at full speed. This ability replaces high jump.

    Purity of Body (Ex): At 5th level, a monk gains immunity to all diseases, including supernatural and magical diseases.

  • Skills:

    Skill (Ab) Total rank + class + ability + misc

    Acrobatics (Dex) +13 5 +3 +5
    Climb (Str) +4 1 +3 +0
    Craft (Int) +1 +1
    Escape Artist (Dex) +13 5 +3 +5
    Intimidate (Cha) -1 -1
    Know history (Int) +1 +1
    Know religion (Int) +1 +1
    Perception (Wis) +13 5 +3 +3 +2 Racial
    Perform Comedy (Cha) +4 2 +3 -1
    Profession (Wis) +3 +3
    Ride (Dex) +5 +5
    Sense Motive (Wis) +8 1 +3 +3 +1 Trait
    Sleight of Hand (Dex) +13 5 +3 +5
    Stealth (Dex) +17 5 +3 +5 +4 Size
    Swim (Str) +4 1 +3 +0

    Equipment:

    5000 Amulet of Mighty Fists +1
    4000 Belt of Incredible Dexterity +2
    302 Mwk Kama
    1000 Braces of Armor +1
    150 Potion: Cure Light Wounds x3
    42gp spare change