Katana and weapon finesse


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

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Can a katana be used with the weapon finesse trait?

Silver Crusade

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No.

Sovereign Court

Nope*.

(*Unless you and your GM agree that it can. Whatever so long as you and your friends are having fun.)

Liberty's Edge

So even with the Kensai (magus arch type) weapon focus.

Sorry I should of mentioned that before. I was thinking it could work.

Then I want to eventually cross class with sword saint.


The weapon has to be a light weapon, or specifically say in its description (rapier) that it can be used with weapon finesse. I don't know of any ability that will make a katana a light weapon.


Unless I am missing it, the kensai never mentioned Weapon Finesse at all. The only thing it does mention is Weapon Focus, which only gives a +1 bonus on attack rolls.

Weapon finesse can only be used with light weapons, or weapons that specifically say you can finesse them (such as rapiers.)

The only way I know of to use Weapon Finesse with a katana is to use a katana sized for a creature one size smaller then you. But then you also take a -2 penalty on attack rolls for using a weapon that isn't sized for you, as well as doing less damage.

Sovereign Court

I'd suggest a Wakizashi.

Silver Crusade

Jeraa wrote:
The only way I know of to use Weapon Finesse with a katana is to use a katana sized for a creature one size smaller then you. But then you also take a -2 penalty on attack rolls for using a weapon that isn't sized for you, as well as doing less damage.

Even that won't work!

Weapon Finesse wrote:
Benefit: With a light weapon, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls. If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your attack rolls.


Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
Jeraa wrote:
The only way I know of to use Weapon Finesse with a katana is to use a katana sized for a creature one size smaller then you. But then you also take a -2 penalty on attack rolls for using a weapon that isn't sized for you, as well as doing less damage.

Even that won't work!

Weapon Finesse wrote:
Benefit: With a light weapon, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls. If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your attack rolls.

I even read the feat before I posted that, and still missed it.

Lantern Lodge

One thing I've noticed with weapon finesse weapons is ethier they are light or they can only do piercing damage (unless I'm horribly wrong). The Katana is neither.

Dark Archive

HOUSERULE:

anything with the "deadly" property;

(Deadly: When you use this weapon to deliver a coup de grace, it gains a +4 bonus to damage when calculating the DC of the Fortitude saving throw to see whether the target of the coup de grace dies from the attack. The bonus is not added to the actual damage of the coup de grace attack)

gains finesse quality;

(Benefit: You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a finesse weapon sized for you, even though it isn't a light weapon.)

instead

Silver Crusade

FrodoOf9Fingers wrote:
One thing I've noticed with weapon finesse weapons is ethier they are light or they can only do piercing damage (unless I'm horribly wrong). The Katana is neither.

The Elven Curve Blade is an exotic two-handed slashing weapon.

Quote:
You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with an elven curve blade sized for you, even though it isn't a light weapon.


As I said in my post above, its generally light weapons, unless it says it in the item description, or a feat makes it a light weapon. Or class abilities.

Rapier and elven curve blade say it in the description

Thunder and fang feat turns the klar into a light weapon

Edit: Added for kodger

Lantern Lodge

I stand corrected, thanks :)

Sovereign Court

The Dervish Dance feat allows you to use a scimitar with Weapon Finesse and also adds your DEX bonus instead of your STR bonus to damage. The scimitar can still be used if you take the Duelist Prestige Class.

Scimitars have an 18-20 critical range.

Kodger

Shadow Lodge

Aldori Dueling blades can be Finnessed if you take the Aldori Dueling feat tree


Kodger wrote:

The Dervish Dance feat allows you to use a scimitar with Weapon Finesse and also adds your DEX bonus instead of your STR bonus to damage. The scimitar can still be used if you take the Duelist Prestige Class.

Scimitars have an 18-20 critical range.

Kodger

Actually Dervish Dance itself lets you use DEX for attack and damage on the scimitar, Weapon Finesse is only a prerequisite. This is proven by the Dervish Bard archetype that gets it for free not needing to take Finesse and still uses DEX for attack rolls.

The Dueling Sword has statistics exactly like a longsword, however if you have EWP in it you can use it with Finesse.


Weapon finesse is really good, so it's meant to be available sparingly. That said, Housrule away.


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A Whip can also be finessed and it's a one-handed slashing weapon... with reach no less. Hell, strictly speaking, a Bladebound Magus could have a Whip as their Blackblade. If you want to finesse a "katana", use a wakizashi and say it's longer than a normal wakizashi, but made much lighter so it doesn't pack as much "punch", but it can be used with a lot more finesse.


Here comes a new Challenger! The weapon master hand book gives you the chance to Finesse with anything your heart pleases. A little tricky for anything not straight a fighter but the Kensai gets an edge up. It'll take you until 9th level but you'll be finessing with the weapon master feat. Just take the feat that gives you weapon training.

Sovereign Court

Ganondorf? (He's a necromancer and could cast Animate Thread, right?) :P

Swashbuckler could use Swashbuckler's Finesse with a Katana, allowing it to be used with Weapon Finesse.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Well, since it's been necro'd anyway, Slashing Grace works with katanas, I currently have a Samurai/Swashbuckler in Jade Regent using that combo.


Lets not forget Effortless Laces is a thing too. Or rather, it wasnt a thing when the question was asked but it is now.

Liberty's Edge

This threw me for a loop when I ran Jade Regent for my friends; one group of ninjas in (I think) Book Five are armed with katanas, and breaking down their stat block suggests that they're using Weapon Finesse.

Fun Tidbit: Katanas were in the original Fifth Edition playtests, and they were basically a longsword you could finesse with. (Then the katanas got removed and they put a note in the book saying "If you want a katana, pay for a longsword and write 'Katana' in the blank instead.")


Okay, I looked into this for ages as I wanted my Ninja/Monk to be able to use a Katana with Weapon Finesse.

The Ninja class proficiency allows him to use a Katana no problem, but to finesse with it you must spend 500gp (most expensive of all) a feat:

When your Katana is crafted get a weapon modification: Versatile Design+500gp

Choose to apply the Fighter Weapon Group 'Blades, Light' to the Katana.

With DM approval, this will allow you to treat the weapon as a light weapon and as such you can apply Weapon Finesse.

The only problem is the Katana is already an exotic weapon, so you'll need to take the feat Modified Weapon Proficiency in order to use the modified design.

If your DM is on the fence with this (though really he shouldn't be as you have a specifically designed weapon as well a feat to use the bloody thing) get it made from Mithral.

If he doesn't agree to that, he's a complete arse!


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Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

A warrior poet (Samurai Archetype) gets Graceful Warrior (Ex).

Silver Crusade

Dominic Gernon 466 wrote:

Okay, I looked into this for ages as I wanted my Ninja/Monk to be able to use a Katana with Weapon Finesse.

The Ninja class proficiency allows him to use a Katana no problem, but to finesse with it you must spend 500gp (most expensive of all) a feat:

When your Katana is crafted get a weapon modification: Versatile Design+500gp

Choose to apply the Fighter Weapon Group 'Blades, Light' to the Katana.

With DM approval, this will allow you to treat the weapon as a light weapon and as such you can apply Weapon Finesse.

The only problem is the Katana is already an exotic weapon, so you'll need to take the feat Modified Weapon Proficiency in order to use the modified design.

If your DM is on the fence with this (though really he shouldn't be as you have a specifically designed weapon as well a feat to use the bloody thing) get it made from Mithral.

If he doesn't agree to that, he's a complete arse!

Or, just ignore all these nonsensical shenanigans and get an Effortless Lace.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

If you can use 3PP check out Path of War- Expanded. It has the following:
Daisho Expertise (Combat)

Your grace and skill with both the katana and wakizashi is on the level of a prodigy.

Prerequisites: Proficiency with the katana or wakizashi.

Benefit: Increase the damage die of katanas and wakizashi you wield by one die step. In addition, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier when making attack rolls with either weapon. This feat counts as Weapon Finesse for purposes of meeting the prerequisites of other feats.

Special: If you are proficient with the katana as a martial weapon, you meet the prerequisites for this feat, although you only gain its benefit while wielding a katana in two hands (to gain these benefits while wielding the katana in one hand, you must possess Exotic Weapon Proficiency with the weapon). You must possess Exotic Weapon Proficiency with the wakizashi to gain the benefits of this feat with a wakizashi.


Effortless lace is good stuff for weapon finesse.

In a different direction, does swashbuckler precise strike work with an undersized 2 handed piercing weapon?


Jaga wrote:
Can a katana be used with the weapon finesse trait?

1 lvl dip in swash with slashing grace allows you to

Swashbuckler Finesse (Ex)
At 1st level, a swashbuckler gains the benefits of the Weapon Finesse feat with light or one-handed piercing melee weapons, and she can use her Charisma score in place of Intelligence as a prerequisite for combat feats. This ability counts as having the Weapon Finesse feat for purposes of meeting feat prerequisites.

Slashing Grace
Prerequisite(s): Dex 13, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus with chosen weapon.

Benefit: Choose one kind of light or one-handed slashing weapon (such as the longsword). When wielding your chosen weapon one-handed, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing melee weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a swashbuckler’s or a duelist’s precise strike) and you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon’s damage. The weapon must be one appropriate for your size.

You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows, or any time another hand is otherwise occupied.

Go elf for eastern weapon training treating katanas and wakazashis as martial and you're set. Tho not sure what class you plan on taking. Also if you dip 5lvls instead you gain improved critical meaning katanas now crit on 15-20 with 1d8+dex and hit is dex based not str based. Only feat you'll need is weapon focus.


Woglin wrote:
Jaga wrote:
Can a katana be used with the weapon finesse trait?

1 lvl dip in swash with slashing grace allows you to

Swashbuckler Finesse (Ex)
At 1st level, a swashbuckler gains the benefits of the Weapon Finesse feat with light or one-handed piercing melee weapons, and she can use her Charisma score in place of Intelligence as a prerequisite for combat feats. This ability counts as having the Weapon Finesse feat for purposes of meeting feat prerequisites.

Slashing Grace
Prerequisite(s): Dex 13, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus with chosen weapon.

Benefit: Choose one kind of light or one-handed slashing weapon (such as the longsword). When wielding your chosen weapon one-handed, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing melee weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a swashbuckler’s or a duelist’s precise strike) and you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon’s damage. The weapon must be one appropriate for your size.

You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows, or any time another hand is otherwise occupied.

Go elf for eastern weapon training treating katanas and wakazashis as martial and you're set. Tho not sure what class you plan on taking. Also if you dip 5lvls instead you gain improved critical meaning katanas now crit on 15-20 with 1d8+dex and hit is dex based not str based. Only feat you'll need is weapon focus.

You just raised a 6 year old thread from the dead.


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To be fair this is not the first instance of necromacy, this thread last crawled from the grave nine months ago.

But swawhbuckler/slashing grace was mentioned already.

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