[Publishers] Doug Seacat: [we] have decided not to adopt 4th Edition for the Iron Kingdoms[...]


4th Edition

Liberty's Edge

Read the full newson the Privateer Press forums in the Status Of The Ik Rpg Line thread or read it in the spoilerized bit below.

Spoiler:
Doug Seacat wrote:
There has been considerable speculation and expectations about the RPG line so I wanted to clarify the situation before GenCon. As our fans know the RPG line has won a number of awards over the last several years and has earned a dedicated following. We have great appreciation and fondness for the readers who have stuck by us despite the occasional long wait between these books. It has been gratifying to have the support of people who have eagerly devoured every scrap of setting information and RPG rules we could produce.

As you are aware, we put future book publications for the RPG line on-hold after we determined that 4th Edition was a reality. With the future status of 3.5 edition uncertain and not knowing the shape of 4th Edition we decided it would be a mistake to invest further time and resources on upcoming products. After evaluating our options we have decided not to adopt 4th Edition for the Iron Kingdoms. We will not be converting our material for the Full-Metal Fantasy line to that system. We will continue to provide periodic RPG articles in No Quarter Magazine for the foreseeable future. This will be the best place to find information pertinent to your Iron Kingdoms campaigns in the months ahead.

As we have additional news or information related to the RPG line or pertinent to our existing books, including those which are currently out of print, we will let you know either here or in No Quarter Magazine. We are definitely aware of the difficulties being faced by those seeking the out of print books in particular.


Having run an Iron Kingdoms campaign I never thought 4th ed would be seriously considered for the core rules of the setting. Regardless of what one’s opinion of the new edition of D&D is, the basics of it are at odds with the general feel of IK. The grim low fantasy atmosphere of the Iron Kingdoms is very different with the inherently high-fantasy rules of 4th ed. On top of that add firearms and cannons and warjacks. Plus the conversion of all the setting specific classes would be a monumental task in and of itself. I really hope that this isn’t the beginning of the end of the setting. A few articles in a magazine aren’t very much for sustaining the life of a world.
This is one of the problems my friends and I expected with the end of 3.5 in regards to all the OGL properties out there. They have all this source material and no core on which to attach it. Yes they could go with Pathfinder but, as cool as it is, it isn’t going to be the only 3.5 surrogate.
As kind of a side note about Iron Kingdoms, does anyone else that has played it think that War Machine’s storyline detracts from the RPG setting or vice versa? In this I mean that what would be cool for a table top minis combat game isn’t necessarily cool for a RPG setting not as a which one is better/more fun.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Well I hope to be able to buy some IK products now, likely their minis since I don't need another setting. Maybe their Monsternomicon.

At least they aren't going Cortex *Shudder*


Audrin_Noreys wrote:

A side note about Iron Kingdoms, does anyone else that has played it think that War Machine’s storyline detracts from the RPG setting or vice versa? In this I mean that what would be cool for a table top minis combat game isn’t necessarily cool for a RPG setting not as a which one is better/more fun.

Not necessarily. I just found it a pity that the storylines they devised for Warmachine were not mirrored in their RPG products, or that the two product lines were not made more compatible so you could do your own conversion work. I loved reading about the Warmachine campaigns in No Quarter magazine, but why were they never made into a wartime campaign or even a single adventure for the IK RPG? I found that this always detracted a bit from the usability of the setting, you as a RPG player were feeling "left out" from most of the "new" stuff they developed.

That is not to say that their RPG books were anything short of excellent, though. I love both Monsternomicons and the Five Fingers sourcebook, especially. And I seriously hope they will find the time and resources to produce some more books for their RPG line, now that 4e seems to be off the table. I know I would continue to support them.


Character conversion rules for the mini’s game would have been cool. I did play War Machine a few times it’s a good solid game. I had to drop out about the time Hordes came out due to the usual life related reasons.
By the way, does anyone else have the creeps over Khador....I mean Russia invading Georgia?


I read somewhere that they may make their own inhouse system based on the minis game.

BTW is Cortex the system of Firefly RPG?

If so *SHUDDERS*x2


Hmmm actually:

Warmachine Universe + D&D 4E high fantasy= Makes and excellent Final Fantasy wannabe.

This may not be a bad thing.


Nahualt wrote:

BTW is Cortex the system of Firefly RPG?

If so *SHUDDERS*x2

Yes.... yes it is...


Audrin_Noreys wrote:

Having run an Iron Kingdoms campaign I never thought 4th ed would be seriously considered for the core rules of the setting. Regardless of what one’s opinion of the new edition of D&D is, the basics of it are at odds with the general feel of IK. The grim low fantasy atmosphere of the Iron Kingdoms is very different with the inherently high-fantasy rules of 4th ed. On top of that add firearms and cannons and warjacks. Plus the conversion of all the setting specific classes would be a monumental task in and of itself. I really hope that this isn’t the beginning of the end of the setting. A few articles in a magazine aren’t very much for sustaining the life of a world.

This is one of the problems my friends and I expected with the end of 3.5 in regards to all the OGL properties out there. They have all this source material and no core on which to attach it. Yes they could go with Pathfinder but, as cool as it is, it isn’t going to be the only 3.5 surrogate.
As kind of a side note about Iron Kingdoms, does anyone else that has played it think that War Machine’s storyline detracts from the RPG setting or vice versa? In this I mean that what would be cool for a table top minis combat game isn’t necessarily cool for a RPG setting not as a which one is better/more fun.

Amusingly enough Id say 4e is closer to warmachine style rules than 3.5. Now its not as gritty as IK but then again warmachine isn't. The 4e ritual seperation of magic fits in quite well. The lack of summoning and such as well. I mean how early can you fly in 3.5? They spent a lot of time removing/redoing spells in the IK guides, cause 3.5 had too much high magic. The weaking of magic items is great since IK items are suppose to be unique. Actually with less healing potions and the healing rules of IK, you better not get hurt. The warlord fits quite nicely. Now Tielfings, Dragonborn and Eldarin don't fit so well. Then again the 3.5 elf, gnome, dwarf, and half orc didnt. In fact they rewrote humans. Of course Warlocks fit quite well, just with diffrent pacts. I mean the gun mage is a warlock.

However, saying that, thats a lot to redo. Id prefer they keep it more like the World Guide and Five Fingers. Few rules and less system specific.

I never found the warmachine storyline a problem for the rpg. It just adds another layer and diffrence between it and other settings. It also adds in some great hooks. Its certainly less damaging in my eyes than the Realms/Dragonlance novels for those worlds.

Sovereign Court

Here is another example how 4.0 prevents authors from telling the stories they wish to tell. This community's alignment to 3.5, and subsequently, Pathfinder, makes for a community that can find other players anywhere they go who play a widely supported system.

Just as Doug's company has made their decision, I encourage all 3.5 players to remind others at Gen Con that 3.5 and the open game movement is alive and well.


Pax Veritas wrote:


Just as Doug's company has made their decision, I encourage all 3.5 players to remind others at Gen Con that 3.5 and the open game movement is alive and well.

I will make sure to tell that to everyone while I am there. ;P


Lensman wrote:
Pax Veritas wrote:


Just as Doug's company has made their decision, I encourage all 3.5 players to remind others at Gen Con that 3.5 and the open game movement is alive and well.

I will make sure to tell that to everyone while I am there. ;P

But the real question is wheter or not there will be physical confrontations between the 4e and 3e camps at GenCon.

Lol ... should they sell tickets?


Ixancoatl wrote:


But the real question is wheter or not there will be physical confrontations between the 4e and 3e camps at GenCon.

Lol ... should they sell tickets?

Good question. I wonder how close the Paizo and Wizard booths will be in the Dealers Room.? They might start shooting each other angry looks during GENCON. Maybe even some heckling and name calling too. LOL!


Lensman wrote:
Ixancoatl wrote:


But the real question is wheter or not there will be physical confrontations between the 4e and 3e camps at GenCon.

Lol ... should they sell tickets?

Good question. I wonder how close the Paizo and Wizard booths will be in the Dealers Room.? They might start shooting each other angry looks during GENCON. Maybe even some heckling and name calling too. LOL!

Oh, I doubt the booths (those manning them) will be the problem. I'm betting on the nerdragers to start a hilarious nerd-brawl. Beer and pretzels event if I ever heard of one.


Actually, I can see people from both camps in white shirts, black pants, and ties with a crazed look in their eyes walking around with player hand books(of either edition) stopping people at random and asking if they have heard the good word.


Ixancoatl wrote:


Oh, I doubt the booths (those manning them) will be the problem. I'm betting on the nerdragers to start a hilarious nerd-brawl. Beer and pretzels event if I ever heard of one.

Last year there was a booth selling those foam covered swords and axes with padded armor. They had little fights set up between prospective buyers. They should set up some 3.5 and 4e matches. :)

Liberty's Edge

Lensman wrote:

Actually, I can see people from both camps in white shirts, black pants, and ties with a crazed look in their eyes walking around with player hand books(of either edition) stopping people at random and asking if they have heard the good word.

I was thinking something more like West Side Story, with a snazzy dance number and faux, stylized fighting. Hmmmm.....never mind. The idealized visual was just replaced with the actuality. Not pretty at all.

The Exchange

Very cool. I like Iron Kingdoms and 4e should be an excellent fit for it.

As much as I hate to add fire to the edition wars - speaking as someone that is not currently playing either 3e or 4e - both editions are high fantasy and both can be altered to play in a lower tier. The whole argument that 4e embodies too high a level of fantasy for setting X, Y, or Z has no real merit.


I am here to inform you that I have been hired as security at Gen Con. Rest assurred that with my presence all Gen Con participants, both venders and guests alike will behave in an orderly fashion. Failure to comply to my security measures will ensure a unsatistfactory FATE and I shall properly dispose of any riff raff that may appear.

Dark Archive

crosswiredmind wrote:

Very cool. I like Iron Kingdoms and 4e should be an excellent fit for it.

As much as I hate to add fire to the edition wars - speaking as someone that is not currently playing either 3e or 4e - both editions are high fantasy and both can be altered to play in a lower tier. The whole argument that 4e embodies too high a level of fantasy for setting X, Y, or Z has no real merit.

You do realize that IK is NOT going to have anything to do with 4e right?

Thus saving one of the best settings around.

IronKingdoms is NOT high fantasy. We're not talking the Forgotten Realms here.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
crosswiredmind wrote:

Very cool. I like Iron Kingdoms and 4e should be an excellent fit for it.

As much as I hate to add fire to the edition wars - speaking as someone that is not currently playing either 3e or 4e - both editions are high fantasy and both can be altered to play in a lower tier. The whole argument that 4e embodies too high a level of fantasy for setting X, Y, or Z has no real merit.

That 4e cannot be used for X, Y, or Z, yes, that is a dubious argument. Any system can be used for any style of game.

Whether or not it should be, or as to how well it will actually run as a game with that style, though, those are valid arguments.

Scarab Sages

Ixancoatl wrote:
Lensman wrote:
Ixancoatl wrote:


But the real question is wheter or not there will be physical confrontations between the 4e and 3e camps at GenCon.

Lol ... should they sell tickets?

Good question. I wonder how close the Paizo and Wizard booths will be in the Dealers Room.? They might start shooting each other angry looks during GENCON. Maybe even some heckling and name calling too. LOL!

Oh, I doubt the booths (those manning them) will be the problem. I'm betting on the nerdragers to start a hilarious nerd-brawl. Beer and pretzels event if I ever heard of one.

Maybe not tickets, but Paizo could make some coin by offering "I heart 3rd Ed" buttons, and then Wizards would have to counter with 4th Ed versions. Then there would be roving gangs of button-wearing losers throwing miniatures at each-other! ;)

The Exchange

Alex Draconis wrote:
You do realize that IK is NOT going to have anything to do with 4e right?

Oops - misread the thread title.

Alex Draconis wrote:
IronKingdoms is NOT high fantasy. We're not talking the Forgotten Realms here.

Sure its high fantasy. Are there wizards just like the ones in the PHB? Are there planes? Demon s? Dragons? Are there guns that use magic rather than gunpowder?

IK is gritty but that does not make it low fantasy. It is definitely HIGH fantasy. Just because it does not have the crack based wackiness of FR does not make it low fantasy.

The Exchange

Kvantum wrote:
crosswiredmind wrote:

Very cool. I like Iron Kingdoms and 4e should be an excellent fit for it.

As much as I hate to add fire to the edition wars - speaking as someone that is not currently playing either 3e or 4e - both editions are high fantasy and both can be altered to play in a lower tier. The whole argument that 4e embodies too high a level of fantasy for setting X, Y, or Z has no real merit.

That 4e cannot be used for X, Y, or Z, yes, that is a dubious argument. Any system can be used for any style of game.

Whether or not it should be, or as to how well it will actually run as a game with that style, though, those are valid arguments.

True. The same is true for any game system which is why the OGL and the proliferation of genres covered by it always bugged me.

Liberty's Edge

There is also no mention of any upcoming books in the IK line. The only new content will be provided through the No Quarter magazine.

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