Archmic's page

I know I tore it apart in my post, but there are elements of the class that work just fine. I agree that it doesn't feel like a Wisdom based class, but it has the feel of being a Dwarven Exclusive archetype.

Change the runes around a bit and give level restrictions to them, give it a proper spell progression and caster level, possibly even a unique ability or two, and remove most of it's ungodly power and it becomes balanced. It has fine options for allowing a player to do some things that are fun and unique, but nothing to keep it constrained.

Let's see...

Alignment: I don't really see them being chaotic... but honestly shouldn't have a restriction

Race: Dwarf... because it feels right.

Casting ability: Intelligence; you're doing research here not getting divine inspiration.

HP: d6; you're not a cleric you're a weird Dwarven spell caster.

To keep some of the feel, give it medium armor pro but only simple weapon proficiency. Again, we're going for Dwarven feel.

BAB: 1/2 You're a weird wizard Harry.

Saves: Will good, Ref and Fort bad.

Skills: Appraise, Craft, Fly, Heal, Knowledge (Arcane and History), Linguistics, Lore, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device.

Skill Points: 2 + int mod

Spell progression up to 6th level spells, require a spell book and give it spell slots up to 4 from class per level like a wizard.

Spells: Give it a unique spell list. Mix and match spells from several different classes.

Rune Casting: complete overhaul. Make it a pool of points equal to 2 or 3+Int Mod. and increase it by maybe 2 points a level. Have it spend those points to make the runes.
Limit the number of runes to location. One per armor set, one on a shield, one on a weapon. One on a person and have it use a spell slot.

Size and visibility: not sure why size is a thing with it but the runes should have to be visible at all times to be used/activate.

End state: get rid of this concept... it just doesn't work.

Dismissing and Dispelling: Dispell magic should work on a rune; even an inert one; like normal for a spell. Erase should work on runes with an opposed caster check. Dismissing... well that thought should just be thrown out.

Runes (Renamed to Runic Mastery) (SP): This should be the uniqueness of the class, and it should be limited. Activating them should be a move action or standard action. Should be be allowed to pick on every 2 to 3 levels.
Accuracy: remove; or have it allow you to ignore all cover bonuses save for total cover for a round or a few rounds as the class levels up.
Air: see Elemental Runes at bottom.
Bear: see Animal based runes at bottom.
Blast: can be placed on a piece of ammunition, adds 1d6 per Rune point used. Limit the number of points to something like 1 point per 2 levels up to 5 points. This gives them some attack bonus. Note: only one piece of ammunition can be modified with this so if you want more you're spending more points.
Bleed: can be placed on any slashing or piercing weapon but not ammunition. Lasts for 1 round per 2 levels, adds 1 point of bleed damage to the weapon.
Blocked Trails: remove
Cougar: see animal based runes at bottom
Earth: Rename it to invulnerability make it work on armor and have it give a bonus to saves or resistances for a few rounds.
Eldritch: remove
Fire: see elemental runes at bottom
Fog: get rid of it.
Hardness: Keep what it does for armor and shield, change duration to 1 round per level.
Healing: place on a person. Allow it to be activated by them as a move action and have it heal like a cure light wounds spell. Have it upgrade with levels to change into cure moderate and serious.
Incompetence: remove
Inspiration: remove
Misfortune: remove
mitigating: remove
Mongoose: see animal based runes at bottom
owl: see animal based runes at bottom
ownership: change it so that it persists for 1 day per caster level or 2 and would probably be the only mark that doesn't have to be visible. Allow the Rune Caster to sense the items location while the mark is activated. Fun little utility thing.
Shielding: allow it to give resistances to elemental damage; 5/10/15; that has to be designated by the activator at time of activation and have it last for 1 round per 4 levels.
War: remove or change so it affects the user, giving them a +X morale bonus to attack rolls for the next round; NOT ROUNDS.
Wolf: See animal based runes at bottom.
Elemental: place on a weapon and give it one of the following properties for 1 round per 2 levels - Flaming, Frost, Corrosive, or shock. Allow it to upgrade at a higher level to include the upgraded versions of these abilities or have it deal a flat damage amount of the elements.
Animal Based Runes: could do the following; gives a small limited bonus to ability scores, or skills, or feats, or something like that for a few rounds or minutes and the abilities should fit the animal. Ex: Wolf could give scent, or owl could improve perception, fish could grant a swim speed or water breathing etc. etc.
Add a few more runes to give it a few more options.

Logos: replaced with proper spell casting

Rune Lore: remove or have it grant read magic, or create scroll, or something to that affect.

Runic Mastery: removed and name taken and given to the "Runes" ability

Runelord: Allows you to double to the number of runes you can have active on yourself. So two runes per area on yourself or allows you to spend X Rune Pool points to increase length of time Runes are active.

There... a few hours work and the class is WELL on it's way to being balanced and mildly unique.

Being Mercenary Types they did build connections. You just haven't realized it yet.

Party was hired by client A. Mission was successful. Party leaves. Client A talks about Party to Clients B, C, and D. From one mission the party has gained some renown. They are indirectly connected to Clients B, C, and D through Client A. The land of the Linnorm Kings books use a renown system I love for things like this. To help the Party build connections.

Unfortunately, I can't really give advice as to where to go from where they are as I don't know the setting that well nor how your players really interact with the world on whole.

Murder Hobos love fighting, but build enemies quickly that could be amassing power.

Political groups usually have fun with the interactions they have and things like court intrigue could serve to keep them happy or even building a kingdom itself.

Do they have any ambitions besides wealth? Have they made enemies? Anything in their backstories you haven't exploited yet?

I have a problem with this class.

Over all: It's TOO powerful. It gives you way too much: D8 HP, Simple and Martial Weapon proficiency, Light and Medium Armor proficiency, the ability to create your own weapons as well as double enchanting them, replacement of used ability bonuses, a ridiculous number of active powers at once; some with no way to be countered... it literally allows you to make a character that can easily overpower any other character in a party or even the enemy.

The class needs a major overhaul to be balanced. Time limits on many powers are a MUST as well as certain restrictions. It needs to be closer to being a spell caster than a melee combatant and some of it's abilities make absolutely no sense; Number of runes known=1/2 your Wisdom score... number of ACTIVE runes=3+Constitution Modifier +20 once you reach level 20. You can LITERALLY make a char with mostly crappy stats, make him a dwarf for the +2 to both Wisdom and Constitution... I'll build an example char here to show you.

Grimbahl Runicheat Level 20 Runecaster
Str: 10
Dex: 10
Con: 18 changed to 20 by level 8 changed to 26 with belt
Int: 12
Wis: 20 changed to 23 by level 20 changed to 29 with headband changed to 35 with Runic insight and if we really wanted to push it change it to 40 with a tome of wisdom.
Cha: 10

HP: (Taking average here save for level 1) 244
BAB: 15/10/5 (ANY weapon created using Runic Weapon changes this to 20/15/10 then adding your Wisdom mod to it because why not changes it to 35/30/25 the weapon can be enchanted using the War Rune changing it to 40/35/30 and adding a +1 magic ability to the weapon. This combination also gives the weapons damage +20 per hit. If it's a two-handed weapon that's +27 besides the weapons damage)

I'm sorry I can't continue with this I'm so disgusted with it and I haven't even gotten to the saves, armor, feats, or spell choices or even how you can have MULTIPLE of the same rune on but not active just waiting for you to turn them on when the other reaches its "End State". The class is broken.

I'll post again proposing things that could balance the class out into a more... useable and fair state if you want.

So that's one yes and one no.

The reason for the drawback is my own personal feeling that Artifacts are
a little too powerful.

As far as being a Major Artifact; I disagree. While it gains abilities and becomes more powerful the higher your FE bonus is a Ranger will only ever reach the top tier ability if they focus on a single creature; the rest will only give it a +1 enhancement bonus. It's power also isn't as high as most Major Artifacts: Heart's Edge, and Heart's Bane for examples of class specific Artifacts.

So I like to design things; creatures, spells, dungeons, pantheons, etc. But, one thing I have yet to touch are artifacts. Mostly because what makes an Artifact an Artifact is well... annoying. Technically, the only real requirement for an Artifact is it's inability to be broken; or at least very few ways to break it. Anyways, I've created an idea for an Artifact and I would like the community to rate it. If you like it; feel free to use it in your campaign.

Devoted of the Hunt (Minor Artifact)
The craftsmanship of this bow is incredible; the Yew wood is polished to a high gloss and delicate gold patterns adorn it. As the light catches the gold you notice the shapes of creatures appearing in the patterns which quickly vanish never to be see again.
This Yew Short bow is a Masterwork Composite 1 Short bow in the hands of everyone save for a person with the Favored Enemy ability. In the hands of such a person its true abilities come to life.
The bow gains the Distance ability and increases in strength as the user becomes better at hunting their chosen foe; +1 enhancement per +2 Favored Enemy bonus. At FEB (Favored Enemy Bonus) +4 the bow gains Adaptive, at FEB +6 it gains Seeking, at FEB +8 It gains Bane, and finally at FEB +10 it gains the ability to make an arrow of slaying vs it’s owners +10 Favored Enemy; once a day.
However, the bows devotion to killing its owner’s enemies is fanatical. Each time one of the owners favored enemies comes within one range increment (140ft) for the first time in a day; whether the owner can see it or not; the owner must make a Will save; DC = 10 + Favored Enemy Bonus + Weapons Enhancement bonus versus that foe. On a successful save the owner may act as normal. On a failed save the owner is filled with killing intent and must attack and kill any creature that falls under that Favored Enemy Category on sight for the rest of the day. This check must be made for EVERY favored enemy group that is encountered. Example: You run into one enemy that belongs to Favored Enemy group A you have to make a check the first time. Later in the day you run into an enemy that falls under Favored Enemy group B you have to make a check for that one as well since they are from separate groups. If running into an enemy that falls into more than one group, you make a check for each group that applies separately as if it were two separate creatures.
DCs are 13 (FE +2), 16 (FE +4), 19 (FE +6), 24 (FE +8), and 27 (FE +10)
Destruction: Owner must resist the urge to kill a max FEB enemy; +10; and administer first aid to that creature using the bow as part of the heal check. Minimum DC 35 to do this as the bow will resist being used in such a way. If the DC is missed by 5 or more the bow will vanish to find a more worthy Owner.

The deeper they go the more powerful the undead his repeated reawakening would bring back. Kind of a mines of Moria thing.

In case you're wondering the whole campaign was designed around the BBEG and he was inspired by the song "Silent Tears of Frozen Princess" by Glory Hammer. Was listening to them while playing around with campaign ideas when this scene popped into my head.

The BBEG still alive. Placing his hand on a giant ice crystal, tears rolling down his cheeks as he looks at his beloved. Swearing to take revenge on those that killed her. Turning away from her his expression changing from pure sorrow to a raging tear streaked fury.
Fast forward to the day that the PCs reach him in a citadel carved out of the ancient ice. He sits on a frozen throne. Necromantic energy leaking from his empty sockets like perminant tears. He stands, pulling his blade from the frozen floor and pointing it at them.
His voice ringing out hollow with eternal sadness and fury, "You have NO RIGHT to stand between me and my JUSTICE! Your dying screams shall be the heralds of their END!"

It was too perfect not to make a campaign around and so i did.
I always leave more than one way for the PCs to defeat or weaken the BBEG. One way is a little... evil; the bad end if you will. To break the armor they would have to recover his lovers body and put it on her; in this scenario his own spirit would destroy the armor as he would never desecrate her. Not the best ending as his reason for coming back is more of a tragic love story; it's his own rage and grief that made him a GK not some dark entity. The second way would be for the players to either resurrect his lover or at least contact her spirit to have her talk to him; this is the good but harder ending as it affords the players to make a decision: let his soul rest with his beloved in the after life, create an eternal guardian for the free cantons, or create another faction in my world. It also turns it into an escort quest; her tomb being hollowed ground and once she leaves you now have to protect a very low level cleric in a much higher level area.

The armor thing I haven't done directly. I have informed them that a couple of the undead had on symbols that they had seen in a previous village... they didn't feel like going back to check it out. I'm hoping that this defense encounter sparks some interest in looking into the past as they are going to encounter intelligent undead that are leading the others. Much less a horde attack and more like a siege.

The issue with letting them blunder isn't that the fight is impossible; it's literally a 1v4 scenario. It's that it's impossible to KEEP him dead without it.
I've tweaked the magic item creation system a little bit. A Grave Knight is linked to his armor. Due to his deeds while alive his armor became a minor artifact giving it only one way to be destroyed which involves his lover; think Mr Freezes wife. Making it kind of a big deal in the story. While I could trash this part of the story it kind of seals the whole thing as the end of the campaign.

If they ignore the armor thing; I'll try the haunted ancestor thing, but I don't have very high hopes for them worrying about one little ghost when they are fighting a lot of undead.

Thanks for the suggestions.

So here's my issue:
I have a campaign that's going really well, but the players are about to hit a major road block if they don't start doing some research or asking questions.
Premise:
The campaign is an undead based one with no Paladins or Clerics allowed as the area they are in is hostile towards anyone of those two classes; this involves the background of the world which I won't get into here. They have reached level 6 and are in the middle of defending one of the biggest human towns in the area; the mountains; which I think they are wanting to make into their base of operations. They think that it's just a necromancer that's raising the dead to attempt to make an army which is WAY off track. The actual BBEG is a Cavalier Grave Knight that's waking up; think Lich King from WoW but different. There is a Historian that they can get the information from and a few more clues and what not they can gain from talking to the other two factions in the area; Dwarves and Half-Orcs; but without them doing any research into the past at all I fear they will be severely underprepared to fight a melee combatant without gaining this information.
I want them to talk to the Historian or at least get interested into researching but I don't want to just drop the Historian on them or railroad them into getting the information.
Any suggestions on how to do this while making it still feel organic to the story and not railroading them?

Context: of an event
the influences and events related to a particular event or situation:
Context: of surrounding words
the text or speech that comes immediately before and after a particular phrase or piece of text and that influence how it is used and what it means

Event: Attack

Text immediately before:
If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls.

Text itself:
This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one.

Text immediately after:
If a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack, regardless of its type.
Definition of Context
I'll just leave this here for you Lord.
I'm done arguing... It's just not worth it.

Question... does it EVER state in the Natural Attack rules that the additional attacks HAVE to be Natural Attacks or are you assuming?
Because I can assure you that it doesn't specify type of attack but it does specifically say Natural Attack when it's talking only about Natural Attacks.

This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one.

It never states that it has to be another natural attack just multiple attacks.

Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action.

So what are multiple attacks? This is pulled from Combat

A character who can make more than one attack per round must use the full-attack action (see Full-Round Actions) in order to get more than one attack.

This is relevant because it show us what Multiple Attacks are; the ability to make more than one attack a round.

An argument could also be made that White Hair and Prehensile hair aren't the same ability. They look similar but work very differently: damage, classification (Prehensile Hair is a secondary while White Hair is a primary), Prehensile Hair has it's own strength score, etc. etc.
As such they should be handled individually based on the rules than by things that one person has said about one of them. Just like a longsword and a shortsword. Very similar but also very different.
Please note: When I posted both the Powerful Charge and Constrict parts it was because Isaac had used them in an attempt to prove his point earlier as well as attempt to get a cheap shot in and I was highlighting specific things in those abilities that I had said could not be used as proof of 1-1/2 mod bonus on damage.

I have read everything you put up. From Tiger, to multiple links to Universal Monster Rules.

I understand the point you are making, and have presented a number of examples which prove it false. A number of other people have also agreed and presented evidence to prove your point false.

The arguement you've presented is "well, it says typical, so your point is invalid", or alternatively "that doesn't count because I disagree". If everyone here were the proverbial table, you would be the individual dragging things out, as you've been the only one here refusing to look at the provided evidence.

First, none of the examples you posted proved me false as I then posted my counter arguments with links to proof.

Most creatures possess one or more natural attacks (attacks made without a weapon). These attacks fall into one of two categories, primary and secondary attacks. Primary attacks are made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and add the creature’s full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature’s base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one. If a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack, regardless of its type. You do not receive additional natural attacks for a high base attack bonus. Instead, you receive additional attack rolls for multiple limb and body parts capable of making the attack (as noted by the race or ability that grants the attacks).

Some creatures treat one or more of their attacks differently, such as Dragons, which always receive 1-1/2 times their Strength bonus on damage rolls with their bite attack. These exceptions are noted in the creature’s description.

Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their available natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack’s original type.

Some creatures do not have natural attacks. These creatures can make unarmed strikes just like humans do. See Table: Natural Attacks by Size for typical damage values for natural attacks by creature size.

Damage 1d2 (small), 1d3 (medium); Critical x2; Type Bludgeoning

Category Light; Proficiency Simple
Weapon Group Close

An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon. Therefore, you can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with an unarmed strike. Unarmed strikes do not count as natural weapons (see Combat). The damage from an unarmed strike is considered weapon damage for the purposes of effects that give you a bonus on weapon damage rolls.

A monk or any character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat can deal lethal or nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes, at his discretion.

*Sharks have no additional limbs that they can use to attack so they only ever get one attack. Because of that, they add 1-1/2 str mod to their damage.

When a creature with this special attack makes a charge, its attack deals extra damage in addition to the normal benefits and hazards of a charge. The attack and amount of damage from the attack is given in the creature’s description.

*No concrete formula is shown for how much the damage is increased so there is no other choice than to look at the creature's description for clarification.

*A creature with this special attack can crush an opponent, dealing bludgeoning damage, when it makes a successful grapple check (in addition to any other effects caused by a successful check, including additional damage). The amount of damage is given in the creature’s entry and is typically equal to the amount of damage caused by the creature’s melee attack.

*Typically is actually written into the wording for the ability and we are told to look at the creature's entry to find out exactly how much damage it deals.

Do I disagree with your arguments? Yes, and here's the proof that I'm citing and have been citing this entire time.

Archmic wrote:

YOU as a player will eventually gain a higher BAB and the ability to make multiple attacks using different things.

That doesn't apply to Natural Attacks. To the point the Shifter needs a special ability to allow them to do so, Shifter's Fury.

Melklador and Cavall have the point. Though on Cavall's, holding a weapon wouldn't invalidate things. Using it would, because it would overwrite being the only natural weapon bonus by defaulting it to secondary during the full attack. Like Minotaur and his Axe + Gore.

It would become more complicated if weilding a weapon altered things, because technically anything can be an Improvised Weapon (and of course Unarmed Strike is a weapon (and specifically called out as not a natural attack)), which would make it as Archmic is trying to argue that anything with hands cannot have only one natural attack.

Isaac... you realize that you are COMPLETELY IGNORING whole sections of the rule; right?

I've shown MULTIPLE times in MULTIPLE ways using MULTIPLE sources and even your OWN EXAMPLES against you in this discussion. The Minotaur's Powerful Charge ability stats it increases the damage, but it doesn't specifically state what the increased damage is. The Planetar Angel's Slam attack states that if you use it you can't use the greatsword. Your defense of it was actually so weak I didn't even want to point out that there are ENTIRE BUILDS that allow you to use a two-handed weapon and a one-handed weapon for two-weapon fighting.

WE can even use TENGU which shows the amount of damage its bite deals when you use it by itself or if you use it with a weapon as well. It's an even BETTER example because it's a PLAYABLE RACE!
It and the link shows that it's a level 1 Rogue that has the same 0 BAB as the WHW and shows the penalty to attack that it receives when it uses it in conjunction with a weapon. BUT IT CAN STILL BE USED WITH A WEAPON AT LEVEL 1 WITH 0 BAB. WHICH MEANS IT'S NOT THE ONLY ATTACK THAT CAN BE MADE AS A FULL ATTACK ACTION AT 0 BAB AND IF YOU DECIDE TO ONLY MAKE ONE ATTACK THAT ROUND WITH YOUR BEAK THAT'S YOUR CHOICE. It's also using Weapon Finesse which clearly shows that if it's used with a weapon that the Tengu is taking a -5 to it's hit.
What's your argument now Isaac? That it doesn't show the bite attack by itself in the stat block and therefore isn't a good example? Please come up with another weak argument for me to shoot down; not that you'll actually admit that you're wrong while still being completely unable to provide proof for your side of the discussion.

Not being able to attack with a slam and a great sword in the same round has nothing to do with 1 1/2x STR. A slam requires a limb to attack with (usually an arm). The greatsword requires both the creatures hands. So it can’t slam, because it’s already used the limb that it needs.

And again, here is SKR stating that prehensile hair gets 1 1/2x INT,
here he is farther down the thread clarifying that adding a second natural attack makes the hair go back to secondary,
and here he is stating it follows the normal rules for natural attacks

Prehensile hair is a secondary natural attack, unless it is the only natural attack you have, in which case it’s a primary attack. It is also a witch ability. If being able to wield a weapon prevented being able to use the prehensile hair as a primary natural attack, he would have said so instead of stressing that it becomes primary when it’s your only natural attack.

I hate to use this against you, but you should probably reread his quotes again. At no point is he stating that it gets 1-1/2 int mod.

The Minotaur.

They have Str 19 Greataxe for 3d6+6 with Gore secondary at 1d6+2. However, their Gore is listed again under their Powerful Charge special attack. Powerful Charge adds the weapon damage again (and I had to double check charging had no additional damage, and that he had no feats to offer that at all) and the end result is the Gore listed at 2d6+6, giving it 1.5× Str mod.

This is pulled directly from Universal Monster Rules - Powerful Charge with pertinent points in bold.

I'm sorry, but you keep quoting partial points of the rules and misinformation about what an ability does.

...Powerful Charge adds the weapon damage again...

No where in the description of Powerful Charge does it state that it exclusively adds the weapon damage to the attack a second time. It states that the damage will be given in the creatures description.

You do this with the Salamander's constrict ability as well.

Constrict states this; pulled directly from the text with bold:
"The amount of damage is given in the creature’s entry and is typically equal to the amount of damage caused by the creature’s melee attack."
Meaning that it is usually the same, but not always and you should reference the creature's entry to verify that it is the same.
This once again proves the following from the Universal Monster Rules; also pulled directly from the text.

"Some creatures treat one or more of their attacks differently, such as Dragons, which always receive 1-1/2 times their Strength bonus on damage rolls with their bite attack. These exceptions are noted in the creature’s description."

The reason you can't understand why the damages are different is because you keep ignoring the rule for Natural Attacks that I have quoted above. The creators of the stat blocks made them that way and can by using the catch-all quoted above.

Archmic wrote:

But, it also states that it can't use that attack and make attacks with it's greatsword in the same full round action.

No it doesn't.

Quote:

Planetar Angel:

Melee +3 holy greatsword +27/+22/+17 (3d6+15/19–20) or slam +24 (2d8+12)

It either attacks with its greatsword or it attacks with its slam, not both.

Similarly, a balor can attack with its whip and longsword, or its slams.

Not sure what you're trying to say here by disagreeing with what I posted and then agreeing with it... pretty sure that you misread what I posted.

But, it also states that it can't use that attack and make attacks with it's greatsword in the same full round action.

So for those of you who are looking at the monster entry Planetar Angel you missed a section of what I quoted from the Natural Attack rules.

o "Some creatures treat one or more of their attacks differently... These exceptions are noted in the creature's description..."

If you look at the entry for the Planetar Angel it clearly states that it gets to add 1-1/2 it's strength bonus to it's slam attack. But, it also states that it can't use that attack and make attacks with it's greatsword in the same full round action.

Planetar Angel:
Melee +3 holy greatsword +27/+22/+17 (3d6+15/19–20) or slam +24 (2d8+12)

So no the Planetar Angel isn't the perfect example for 1-1/2 int mod, but is the perfect example for my argument.

If the Planetar Angel uses it's slam attack can it make ANY other attacks? No. It clearly states that it is the ONLY attack that can be made. This causes it's slam attack to fall under the Natural Attack rule for 1-1/2 mod because it is the ONLY attack that can be used that round.

o "If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature's full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature's strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one..."

Once again; using it's slam attack makes it the only attack that can be made so it gets 1-1/2 mod.

The WHW can use it's hair in conjunction with normal attacks once it gets a high enough BAB so the attack doesn't get 1-1/2 mod. Which is why it's written 1d4 + int and not 1d4 + 1-1/2 int. Just because the WHW may choose to ONLY make an attack with it's hair doesn't mean that it gets the multiplier.

o "...This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one..."

Another reason why the WHW doesn't get to add 1-1/2 mod is the following: "...Some creatures do not have natural attacks. These creatures can make unarmed strikes just like humans do."

It's important to remember that the WHW is a CLASS that grants a SU; Super Natural Ability; that gives you a natural attack, but your RACE doesn't have a natural attack, but can make UNARMED STRIKES. So even WITHOUT a MANUFACTURED WEAPON you still have an attack inherent to you that you can use.

But, regardless I will use Planetar Angel and WHW to show why it's only mod and not 1-1/2 mod and it lies in the description of the attack.

Planetar Angel: Slam +24 (2d8+12)
WHW: The hair deals 1d4 points of damage (1d3 for a Small witch) plus the witch’s Intelligence modifier.

It states right in the ability that it deals 1d4 + mod. NOT 1d4 + 1-1/2 mod. Which means it falls under the "... treats it's attack differently... this is noted in it's description..." rules of natural attacks.

A Tiger get's it's full str mod to both of it's claw attacks and it's bite attack despite it getting to make three attacks a round.
An Iron Golem gets to add 1-1/2 it's str mod to BOTH of it's slam attacks a round.
A Beheaded-Giant only gets to add it's str mod to it's single slam attack; though there might be an error on the site since it says slams instead of slam.
A Shark gets to add 1-1/2 it's str mod to it's single bite attack.
A Were-Shark only adds 1/2 it's str mod to it's bite attack but can make two attacks a round with a BAB of 3; one with it's trident and one with it's bite.

So in conclusion... no... you only get 1d4 + int mod to damage for your hair. As it stats that as the damage it does in the ability description and fits into the RAW for natural attacks.

Link to Universal Monster Rules, White-Haired Witch, and Planetar Angel.

Reading through the ability and then referencing Natural Attacks makes it pretty clear.

From White Haired Witch:
o "This ability functions as a primary natural attack..."
o "The hair deal 1d4 points of damage... plus the witch's intelligence modifier..."

From Natural Attacks:
o "Primary attacks are made using the creature's full base attack bonus and add the creature's full strength bonus on damage rolls..."
o "If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature's full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature's strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one..."
o "You do not receive additional natural attacks for a high base attack bonus. Instead, you receive additional attack rolls for multiple limp and body parts capable of making the attack..."
o "Some creatures treat one or more of their attacks differently... These exceptions are noted in the creature's description..."
o "Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack... Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their available natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack's original type."

So to break it down:
o The WHW does not get to apply str to damage because it states in her ability what it applies to damage.
o It will only EVER get to attack with it's hair once a turn, because you never get to attack with a natural weapon more than once; AoO excluded in that number.
o It only gets to apply it's INT mod to damage because it has other options for attack; even if it only chooses to use it's hair to make an attack; because it has the option of making a natural attack or a weapon attack REGARDLESS of if you have a weapon on you or not.
o If it uses it's hair and a manufactured weapon to attack in the same round the damage the hair does is reduced to 1/2 INT mod because it automatically gets down graded to a secondary attack.

Examples of some of the references above:
o Sharks, regardless of what their BAB is they only get one attack a round because they don't have any other limb capable of making an attack.
o Dragons, who always get to apply 1-1/2 STR to their bite attack because it's noted in the attack damage itself.
o Barbarians who can gain a bite attack while raging but only apply 1/2 STR mod because it is considered a secondary natural attack.
o Tigers get to make two claw attacks a round because they have two claws so they are really only making one attack with each claw.

Hope this translation of the rules helps you guys.

That isn't an interpretation. It is how it works. Read the FAQs.

Vital strike is useful for creatures that make a single attack and roll a lot of dices. There are plenty of monsters like that and it can be useful for some druid build.
Not all the feats are meant to be beneficial for the PCs.

And Barbarians.

Add weapon abilities like furious and impact, or whole arch-types like Titan Mauler and you've got a beast that takes down things in a hit or two.

Not sure about the wizard follower thing... pretty sure the one doing the crafting has to have the spell as well as the feat but it's not something I do very often.
There is the Figurine of the Dwarven Forge which lets you use scrolls with the proper spell to craft the item rather than having the spell yourself.

Yes.
All aspects of the channeled energy are modified.
Since a half-elf with the FCB would normally heal for 6d6+2, for example, it is now reduced to 3d6+1.
This is under the assumption that you need to take the FCB 3 times to add +1 rather than it modifies the amount by +1/3 each time you take it; in which case you would normally heal for 8d6, 6d6 + 1/3, but now heal for 4d6 when using the variant channeling.
In short the end result is modified.

Un-typed bonuses are the same bonus with the difference of what it is; reference stacking dex and Wis for monks ac unlike armor and bracers of armor; one being magical and the other being mundane but give the same exact bonus so don't stack.
A sacred bonus and a profane bonus are two different types of bonus. Vindicators shield simply allows you to use the required abilities, channel positive/negative energy, in a new way.

Interestingly the weapon ability gray flame seems to be specifically tied to the channel smite feat that the vidicator gets for free. As it states thus:
Gray flame
This weapon responds to channeled positive and negative energy.

When the wielder spends a swift action to channel energy through the weapon, it ignites with a strange gray flame that sheds light as a torch, increases the weapon’s enhancement bonus by +1, and deals +1d6 damage (as the divine power from flame strike) to creatures struck by the weapon. This flame lasts for 1 round for every d6 of damage or healing the channeling normally provides. When charged with positive energy, the flame is a silvery gray, good creatures are immune to the weapon’s extra damage, and the weapon counts as a good and silver weapon for the purpose of bypassing damage reduction. When charged with negative energy, the flame is an ashen gray, evil creatures are immune to the weapon’s extra damage, and the weapon counts as an evil and cold iron weapon for the purpose of bypassing damage reduction. This special ability can only be placed on melee weapons.

Channel smite
Before you make a melee attack roll, you can choose to spend one use of your channel energy ability as a swift action. If you channel positive energy and you hit an undead creature, that creature takes an amount of additional damage equal to the damage dealt by your channel positive energy ability. If you channel negative energy and you hit a living creature, that creature takes an amount of additional damage equal to the damage dealt by your channel negative energy ability. Your target can make a Will save, as normal, to halve this additional damage. If your attack misses, the channel energy ability is still expended with no effect.

While not stated in the ability it is implied you are channeling through the weapon; additional damage equal to.

As activating one will cause the other to activate since it's stated like an if then statement in a computer; if person does this then this happens.

These bonuses would also stack with other such smite abilities for damage; such as smite evil/good but couldn't be activated in the same round due to the one swift action a round limitation.

So we agree then that holy vindicator was never designed with this loophole in mind.

Since this guy can channel like flipping God; Channel Energy (Su): The vindicator's class level stacks with levels in any other class that grants the channel energy ability; he can boost his shield to... okay, need to find a weakness for this char now to be able to challenge him. Thanks guys.

Unless I am missing something, the bonuses happen WHEN a channel happens, so when this Vindicator channels positive, he gains a sacred bonus and when he channels negative he gains a profane bonus.

No need to choose or any thing. If there are bonuses that are always on, unrelated to actually channeling energy, I'd make the player choose which one and have that always apply.

The bonuses happen when the class activates the ability stigmata.

Stigmata (Su): A vindicator willingly gives his blood in service to his faith, and is marked by scarified wounds appropriate to his deity. He may stop or start the flow of blood by force of will as a standard action; at 6th level it becomes a move action, and at 10th level it becomes a swift action. Activating stigmata causes bleed damage equal to half the vindicator's class level, and this bleed damage is not halted by curative magic. While the stigmata are bleeding, the vindicator gains a sacred bonus (if he channels positive energy) or profane bonus (if he channels negative energy) equal to half his class level. Each time he activates his stigmata, the vindicator decides if the bonus applies to attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, Armor Class, caster level checks, or saving throws; to change what the bonus applies to, the vindicator must deactivate and reactivate his stigmata.
Paladins in pathfinder don't have to have a God so the wounds would be appropriate to his ideals.

I guess you're right. The build is pretty cool and completely legal. Done through class combination rather than feat manipulation and turns into a very viable and flexible char so I'll leave it at that.

Yeah, just let him choose which one he wants. I would limit him to having to choose between the sacred or profane bonus rather than having both at the same time, since they technically do stack and would be a bit OP if you could get both.

And I agree with you; honestly, him finding a loop hole to allow him to channel both was a little ridiculous but if do that I do want to reward him some how as well... I mean he did put all this work into the build just to get both so any ideas on that?

Got a player playing an interesting build. This build allows him to channel both negative and positive energy. This causes an issue with the holy vindicators stigmata which gives you a bonus depending on if you channel positive or negative energy. Being able to channel both through a loop hole should the player have to choose one or the other or because he can channel both should he be allowed to gain both?

Depends on archetype.
Anti-paladin tyrant might actually be friend to a paladin; better to manipulate him to his ends.
A paladin probably would never know if an anti-paladin was near because what anti-paladin travels through any city that they or their master doesn't control without taking steps to hide their alignment?

Because they are from different stats they will stack. If they were both using the same stat they would not stack as per this FAQ

Thank you.

Okay, so looking at a few classes a question came to mind; stat bonus to ac.
I'm thinking that they are un-typed. Reason: both monk and sword-devils can add an additional stat bonus and dex bonus to ac and the bonuses aren't listed as having a type.

The reason I ask is the following build: 9 levels ranger (sword-devil archetype) + 1 level monk (martial artist archetype to allow different alignments). I believe these should stack giving you your dex, wis, and cha bonus to your ac.

Why is this important? Well, my group roll stats and I got some pretty nice ones: 18 17 16 14 10 6. So my char is built as such: str 10, dex 18, con 14, int 6, wis 17, and cha 16. We are starting at level 10. I built an aasimar and my final stats adjustments are this: dex 19, wis 20 and cha 18 giving me a base ac of 25 (10 + 4 dex + 4 cha + 5 wis + 2 dodge) before feats and magic items. I just want to make sure I'm not missing anything or that the bonuses can't stack.

Both monk and sword-devil abilities are listed below.

Monk
AC Bonus (Ex): When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds his Wisdom bonus (if any) to his AC and his CMD. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC and CMD at 4th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every four monk levels thereafter, up to a maximum of +5 at 20th level.

Sword Devil
Untouchable (Ex): At 4th level. the sword-devil's confidence and personality distract her foes in combat, making her more difficult to hit. When unarmored and unencumbered. the sword-devil may add her Charisma bonus (ifany) to her AC and her CMD. In addition, the sword-devil gains a +1 dodge bonus to AC at 6th level, and every three sword-devil levels thereafter (9th, 12th, 15th, and 18th). She loses these bonuses when she wears any armor, when she carries a shield, or when she carriers a medium or heavy load.

I agree with Rylden.

The way it's stated would require you to look for presidence. The pummel strike dead sets that presidence. I believe it's stated the way it is to allow the use of the two-weapon fighting feats.

It's stated that you use the statistics for a light mace for dmg, crit range, and crit multiplier. If you look at pummel strike it gives it the same stats only in long hand and with two exceptions: it can't be used in conjunction with two-weapon feats, and it can't benefit from effects like improved crit or keen.

However, it still benefits from the weapon group and pretty much any other effect. So things like impact, flaming, holy, ect. Should all still apply.

The two-bladed sword only needs 4 feats to complete the tree while you need 5 just to complete the spear dancing tree and 7 to get the same number of attacks.

Note: both ends of a two-bladed sword can have impact since the off-hand side is considered light for two-weapon feats only.

So I got bored and started building a char; like I always do and made these two combinations; note whenever I build a char I build up to level 20 even if the char never gets that high so I don't waste time leveling the char later:

Level 20 TN Human Cavalier - Esquire
Level 18 NE Tiefling Fighter (Aide-De-Camps)
Level 18 NG Aasimar Oracle - Lunar (Leadership Feat)
Level 20 Celestial Tiger (Used the Aasimar favored class alt to raise to level 20 and the Primal Companion Revelation to initially get as well as the Celestial Servant Feat to give it the template)

The other combination is:

Level 20 TN Human Cavalier - Esquire
Level 18 NE Tiefling Ranger (Aide-De-Camp)
Level 18 Tiger Pet (Boon Companion feat used)
Level 18 NG Aasimar Oracle - Lunar (Leadership Feat taken)
Level 20 Celestial Tiger (Used the Aasimar favored class alt to raise to level 20 and the Primal Companion Revelation to initially get as well as the Celestial Servant Feat to give it the template)

While not the most min-maxed build created it did essentially create a party controlled by one player; yes technically the Aide-De-Camp, Cohort, and their pet(s) are NPCs that the DM could control and do with as he will, but everyone knows how people feel when the DM takes control of something that is essentially yours. Also, the favored class ability for the Aasimar doesn't state that you can't raise the level of the pet above your own; though I can understand why people would say you couldn't and lowering to level 18 would be as easy as removing the ability.

Aasimar Favored Class alt: Oracle Add +1/6 to the oracle’s level for the purpose of determining the effects of one revelation.

This also includes the hit to your leadership score for essentially having two companions and I didn't see anything that stated there was a hit to your leadership score for you cohorts having pets; I assume this is because the pets are from the companions and not you the player.

So is my build correct or did I miss something in the rulings that would alter this?

The Fighter/Ranger is from a class ability while the Oracle is from a feat. So, at no point did I take the leadership feat more than once.

Also, are there other ways to achieve the One-Player Party without getting too janky; example: I take the leadership feat, then my cohort takes it, and my cohort's cohort takes it... etc. etc..

Can you copy the text from the PDF of the adventure? It's available at DTRPG. Would save you some time...

Unfortunately no, the PDF I keep getting is image only and doesn't recognize the words as anything but part of the image. So I'm hand jamming all of it.

This is reserved for updates for those interested.

So, typically I HATE pre-constructed adventures... but this is the exception.
The Labyrinth of Madness was and still is a masterpiece dungeon crawl that needs to endure into the future of gaming. I have looked at several forums and sites that have so called conversions... but I find them unsatisfying and most of them are incomplete so I'm doing one myself.

So here's my problem... it's a tall order; a little too tall. Working for several hours I finally got the page set up I want and text right. However, I'm only on page 13 after 2 hours of work. So I have a request. As I'm essentially retyping the WHOLE module by hand, if there would be a few people willing to help me with that. Just taking a few pages would be a huge help.

For those willing to help me... I'm simply referencing where generic monsters can be found in the Beastiarys; at least for the ones that are in those. Others that need FULL conversions are going to be a little tricky and I haven't come up with an actual reliable way to convert those over, but they will be at the very end of the document in it's own Beastiary.

Did you tell the sorcerer player about this houserule before they built the character or afterwards?

I informed all players that they needed to tell me what classes they would be playing before hand so as that I could help them with creating their chars and cover anything that they might not see or know as explaining every rule in the game takes a lot longer than answering char specific questions.

I don't actively attempt to sabotage or destroy my players. I've just been playing not only pathfinder but pen and paper games much longer than any of them.

So to answer your question directly, no, but in my defense he created his char without informing me of what he wanted to play.

As it was we ended up spending 6 hours going over and fixing almost every players char before we actually got to start playing due to several of them making their chars on Hero Lab, rather than using their books.

@Murdock & Chromantic: Please follow Chromantic's advise and take this discussion to its own thread. This has nothing to do with the OP's questions anymore and is derailing the thread.

@Archmic: Sorry for piggy-backing on others posts and not being more helpful. I should also ask a few question to get clarification so I can try and help you better, if you don't mind.

1.)

Arhmic wrote:

What do I consider legal spells for a Sorc? Any spell found on the Wizard/Sorcerer spell list in the CORE book.

Is the core rule book the only book you are using in your game? Did you allow your Sorcerer to choose a bloodline from another book? Did you allow your other PC's to make characters from other Pathfinder books?

2.)

Archmic wrote:

A common spell is translated as any spell found in the Wizard/Sorcerer spell list in the CRB.

Is this your interpretation of what a common spell is? If not, could you please cite where this is written?

Now a couple things I think I can answer with examples, hopefully.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/coreRulebook/classes/sorcerer.html#sorce rer wrote:

A sorcerer's selection of spells is extremely limited. A sorcerer begins play knowing four 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells of her choice. At each new sorcerer level, she gains one or more new spells, as indicated on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known. (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a sorcerer knows is not affected by her Charisma score; the numbers on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known are fixed.) These new spells can be common spells chosen from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, or they can be unusual spells that the sorcerer has gained some understanding of through study.

My thoughts here pertains mostly to the bold text. If I were to follow your interpretation of this rule in the second bold section, then in the first bold section the Sorcerer should be allowed to select any spell from any source they wish. (Off the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list of course)....

Please reference my latest updated post.

This is my last post:

Under the magic section of the CORE BOOK just above the section where it covers divine magic; Chapter 9 page 220 of the book I have under the Sorcerer and Bard section for adding spells it states this.

"Adding Spells to a Sorcerer's or Bard's Repertoire: A sorcerer or bard gains spells each time she attains a new level in her class and never gains spells any other way. When your sorcerer or bard gains a new level, consult Table: Bard Spells Known or Table: Sorcerer Spells Known to learn how many spells from the appropriate spell list she now knows. With permission from the GM, sorcerers and bards can also select the spells they gain from new and unusual spells that they come across while adventuring."

I will point the very last line: "With permission from the GM, sorcerers and bard can also select the spells they gain from new and unusual spell that they come across while adventuring."

EVERY spell NOT PRINTED in the Core Book is NEW compared to the spells printed in it as the rest of the books are NEWER than the CORE BOOK.

Following this line of thinking; one can assume that spells not in the CORE Book would fall under the "Unusual" spells that they would have to gain some study of to learn.

I never said that my player couldn't LEARN the spells, but he'd have to either encounter it or find something that would explain how the spell works; such as a scroll or spell book; to be able to learn it.

Note, I have supported my understanding of the rules via book; Core Book Chapter 3 page 22 and Core Book Chapter 9 page 220; and given where you can find this information and how I am drawing my conclusion to what I have read.

In conclusion, unless you can support that what I have concluded is wrong; by Developer post with link, Book Chapter and page reference, or Errata; I ask that you stop posting replies to what I have asked clarification on. Replies such as: "You showed him" and "You're wrong but I'm not going to post anything you can look at to prove it" aren't helpful, wanted, or needed.

To those of you denying that it was in 3.5, grab a PHB open it to page 54 and read the right set of text; if I could post a picture on here I would, and you'll find that you are wrong.

And can a developer please answer this question, as the most useful answers have come from people referencing actual material. I'm not interested in opinions and should never have asked for one.

So, DEVELOPERS what constitutes a common and uncommon spell in BASE GAME; I'm not interested in PFS or any premade setting. Just the ruling on that obscure line in the CORE BOOK.

Thank you for your time and thank you to the people who ACTUALLY troed to help by giving me references to look at.

I don't see it as odd at all seeing as how a wizard must do the following: keep all spells in a book that can be lost or destroyed forcing them to recollect their spells, get 4 spell slots per day of any given spell, must spend time every day after resting preparing their spells to include adding effects from metamagic which means getting their rest interrupted or their study time interrupted keeps them from being able to cast spells at all until they can find time to sit down and study, and his class abilities are literally just a few feats, a familiar, cantrips, and scribe scroll...
While a sorcerers only real restriction on their spells is the limited number they are allowed to know at anyone time. This seems much more balancing and fair between the two classes.

Note that no other class has the "common spells" part written into their spell descriptions.

Also, I never said he couldn't learn spells outside the core, because using your own words RAW states that he can learn other spells, however it states that he has to study them to be able to gain them by spending time like a wizard and learning to understand the magic involved. But, starting a fresh char I don't believe most if any sorcerers would take the time to study something they'll developed naturally.

Also, it's not a house rule. Pathfinder was made to be backwards compatible with 3.5, now before you dismiss this statement off hand, the developers themselves have stated this to include James Jacob in his defense of the campaign settings clerics needing to have a god to cast spells.

The wording in the core book, which is the second time I've quoted this source, for the sorcerer is almost an exact carbon copy of the 3.5 entry of sorcerer only you have to.look at slightly older versions to find the rest of the rule which is written as such; "an uncommon spell is any spell not found in this book". Which is easily translated into the core book when applied to pathfinder.

Which is why I was asking for a SOURCE or ERRATA that I can get clarification on the rules for the sorcerer. Because, it seems pretty clear to me, and the other players who played 3.5 and 3.0 before that this is a pretty well known rule. This last session was the first time anyone had played together and the one player was the only one new to gaming.

The example you showed isn't an uncommon spell, it's a unique spell, as in it was never intended to enter normal play.

So while DMing a campaign, a player of mine figured that they'd play a Sorcerer; because they are all powerful or something like that.
So looking over his char sheet everything seemed to be in order until I checked his spell list and found several spells that shouldn't have been there. Which I had him take off of his sheet and replace with legal spells.

What do I consider legal spells for a Sorc? Any spell found on the Wizard/Sorcerer spell list in the CORE book.
There is a rule written into the Sorcerer's spell entry that reads as thus:

"These new spells can be common spells chosen from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, or they can be unusual spells that the sorcerer has gained some understanding of through study."

A common spell is translated as any spell found in the Wizard/Sorcerer spell list in the CRB.

This rule was made to balance out the Sorcerer and Wizard class: Sorcerer can cast more spells per day and don't need to prepare them ahead of time while the Wizard who studies magic has a deeper understanding of how it works and essentially makes the new magic as they gain levels.

I also translate this rule to mean that if a Sorcerer found a spell book with non-core spells in it and studied it, they would then be allowed to gain the non-core spell as a new known spell, once they gained a level.

To help my player out, because he was quiet distraught, is there anything that someone can SHOW me through a link or by being answered by one of the creators themselves where this is not the case, and how they feel about the rule in general, and if there isn't a change in the rule I might become a little more flexible and give him access to an additional book to draw spells from.

The 'Ranged Flank' feat you listed has a couple of drawbacks:

• You need to be at least 10th level to get it (less of an issue for the OP than most, as he is starting at 5th level)
• It still requires someone to get behind your opponent, which makes party composition very important. Presumably, you'd want a melee rogue to tumble behind your opponent and another melee to keep your target from charging you while somehow not standing between the flankers, which will be awkward with medium size or smaller targets.
• Unfortunately, this feat is very specific on it's requirements, which means it won't work in conjunction with the various feats that have been introduced to make melee flanking easier (I seem to recall there's one that lets you treat the wall as an ally, and one that works with adjacent allies)

It's not unworkable by any means, but it's probably not going to easy to pull off reliably. Mechanically,...

First, waiting until level 11 isn't really an issue for anyone. Since most builds don't really get their power until that level anyways.

Second, the feat states "the nearest adjacent space", doesn't really matter if there's other people in the way as long as that space right next to the enemy is open, which is the space the char would have to be standing in if they wanted to do melee flanking anyways.

Third, I don't see the problem with comboing it with other flanking feats. Those feats would modify the required threatening ally with "wall" and the adjacent ally can easily be interpreted as the ally standing next to the open spot. As they do with normal flanking.

It's written the way it is to match up and get the player to fully understand that it works like normal flanking. Getting a bonus for you fighting an enemy while you have an ally on the exact opposite side from you.
Normal Flanking
X=Players
O=Enemy
xox

Ranged Flanking
X=Players
O=Enemy
-=empty spaces

x-----ox

Either way flanking is established
The difference is that you aren't technically threatened, and anything in your way provides a cover bonus to the enemies AC. If you wanted to completely remove that you just have to take Improved Precise Shot.

I would say... not allowed.

Interesting idea, but in the end it doesn't really work out well. But, I can't give too much because I actually ban Summoners from my game because of the amount of complication. My players find it hard to keep up with their own numbers.

But, gestalt designed to affect the player, not the players things. So what you would be really dealing with is 5 players being controlled by 1 player.

Even the rule of cool would be shaking his head in this context.

Can't flank with a ranged weapon. It's melee only.

Ranged Flank (Combat)

Benefit: When attacking with ranged or thrown weapons from a distance of up to 30 feet, if the nearest adjacent space to your target is unoccupied and the opposite space is occupied by a threatening ally, you are considered flanking. Both you and your ally gain all the benefits of flanking, including +2 flanking bonus on attacks, rogues can sneak attack, etc.

Normal: Only characters in melee are considered flanking.

Also you don't need to be flanking to get your sneak attack.

Sneak Attack:
The rogue’s attack deals extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target.

Flanking is just the easiest way which is why I mentioned it. There's also Bluff, Stealth, flat footed, several feats and several magic items.

I am starting a gestalt campaign soon and Im trying to powerplay. At level 5 a gunslinger adds dex to damage on firearms. A two handed fighter (fighter archetype) can add double strength to damage on two handed weapons (never mentions melee).

Therefore would you be able to apply dex and X2 strength to damage per attack?

If you want to "powerplay" a Gunslinger, easiest method requires you to ask your DM a couple questions...

Up Close and Deadly (Ex): At 1st level, when the pistolero hits a target with a one-handed firearm that is not making a scatter shot, she can spend 1 grit point to deal 1d6 points of extra damage on a hit. If she misses with the attack, she grazes the target, dealing half the extra damage anyway. This is precision damage and is not multiplied if the attack is a critical hit. This precision damage increases to 2d6 at 5th level, to 3d6 at 10th level, 4d6 at 15th level, and 5d6 at 20th level. This precision damage stacks with sneak attack and other forms of precision damage. The cost of using this deed cannot be reduced with the signature deed feat, the true grit class feature, or any similar effect. This deed replaces the deadeye deed.

This is a pistolero special, and combining this with sneak attack would be devastating.

16/11/6/1/16/11/6/16 (Assuming you put haste on one of them)

1d8+5d6+10d6 a shot... 8 shots a turn... low side damage is still 5 damage a shot.

High side damage is 122, on a crit with max damage a shot.

Average is 57 a shot.

Add a few feats; which I'm not going to tell you because you need to find them on your own to truly understand the power behind such a combination; and you'll be murdering almost everything your party runs into... add onto that you'll be able to survive on your own should an enemy come knocking on your door with no flank and you'll be just fine.

I prefer a fighter/Sorc/DD/EK build myself since your fighter levels stack with the EK levels for feats.
Level 1 Fighter (1)
Level 2-5 Sorc (4)
Level 6-12 Dragon D (Effective Sorc 9, FTR 1)
Level 13-20 EK (Effective Sorc 16, FTR 9)
This combination can be mixed and matched to which ever style you want.
True you lose 9th level spells, I feel they are a little over rated, and you only learn one 8th level spell but all in all it's a fairly balanced build with 16 BAB, 16 effective caster level, +3 Nat. Armor, 11 Fort, 6 Ref, 11 Will, and an average HP of 109.
All of this before modifiers like ability and feat bonuses.
What you lose as far as if you're not playing a magus is the ability to cast your spells in any class of armor, but being able to cast 8th level spells, a little more attack and better defense, I think it's a reasonable trade.

Archmic wrote:

How about an "Egg of rebirth"?

Rather than actually bringing the char back to life when it activates it changes them into a rabbitfolk, lock them in that race and puts them under a geas to plant bombs in cities? This would make the desire to be able to be reverted back to their original form, especially if the rabbits are running a muk.

Hahaha! that's fantastic!

How hard would it be for them to return to their original race afterwards?

I'd say pretty hard. Since it would be a cursed version of the druids spell reincarnate.

End result could be that the only way to break the curse would be to eat the carrot or use it to change the egg of rebirth into a chocolate egg they have to then eat.

For added suspense they have a time limit to cure the curse otherwise they change completely and forget they were ever anything other than rabbitfolk and lose their chars as they become faithful servants of the... Easter Bunny...

The egg could even change color.to show them how much time they have left... "when the egg turns brightest pink your former self will be lost forever! Mwahahahahahahahahahaha!"

The truth is alchemical items aren't a major class feature and the player isn't being robbed of anything.

At low levels alcehmical weapons are very effective. They usually target touch AC and cause okay damage, at least compared to anyone who isn't two-handing a melee weapon. Down the road, the haven't scaled while everyone else has.

However, there are plenty of alchemical items that can be useful, but none of them are weapons.

Antitoxin - +5 bonus to saves against poison
Allnight - Avoid fatigue and stay up all night

I'm sorry but my advice to you and your player is change your way of thinking. The alchemist is a powerful class, it's just not supposed to be powerful using using the standard alchemical splash weapons. That's literally what the bombs are for.

Agreed.

How about an "Egg of rebirth"?
Rather than actually bringing the char back to life when it activates it changes them into a rabbitfolk, lock them in that race and puts them under a geas to plant bombs in cities? This would make the desire to be able to be reverted back to their original form, especially if the rabbits are running a muk.

There also seems to be a misconception of the template. You are descended from something evil but you aren't inherently evil yourself.
Being a native outsider still subjects one to certain spells and if you're running/playing a good aligned campaign why are there no antipaladin?
Being what you're being though you will automatically be seen as dirty and unclean, in a roleplaying sense, and you will be treated as such, but any normal Paladin who attempts to smite you will find his smite to have no effect.
However, a magic user needed some demonic blood for a spell might hunt you down to sacrifice you as it doesn't matter what your alignment is for the spell; just that you have demonic blood.
Tieflings aren't so unheard of that being descended from a succubus would be completely unheard of.
You could take a page from wizards of the coast, I know that's slightly taboo, but they made two alternate Paladin classes in the unearthed arcana book. Paladin of freedom (CG) and Paladin of Tyranny (LE). Which both gain their smite abilities for alignment, smite law/chaos respectively.

So I've been playing around with an idea.
A monk/barbarian mix char.
If you take the martial artist arch type you can be any alignment you want then mix it with the brutal pugalist arch type and it sounds really fun.
There is a recommended rage power that I have a view point on though: Brawler.

For those not familiar with it the brawler rage power upgrades the barbarian's unarmed strike to 1d6; if he already has improved unarmed strike; or gives him the imrpoved unarmed strike feat; if he doesnt have the feat. Both of these effects only happen while raging.

In essence it upgrades his unarmed strike one step. It makes sense to me then that if he already has an unarmed strike damage of say 1d10; from his monk levels; and he takes this rage power his unarmed strike damage should upgrade one step while raging to 2d6.

Any thoughts on this or the build?
I like the tHoughton of the build because you can cross class two classes that were never compatible before; unless you were playing oriental adventures but even then the restrictions were hard to make a fun char with.