Let me start with the first answer:
"Just make a Magus."
NO. If I wanted a magical booster of my own melee might, yes, agreed. But I'm looking to focus on battlefield control with decent melee backup. Someone who's closer to a full caster. That would be an Eldritch Knight.
What I'm thinking right now, is start with a level of Bloodrager, then go into Blade Adept Arcanist. My first and third level exploits are taken, but my fifth level can be Bloodline Development, my feat at character level 7 (Arcanist 6) can be Extra Exploit: Weapon Specialization, and at Arcanist 7 (so I've got 8 levels for the bloodline) I choose Eldritch Blade. Then I go up EK.
A few notes: I can dump Charisma with this build, because I'm never getting Bloodrager spells, and I'm choosing exploits that don't rely on Charisma. My bloodline will remain at Level 8 until after EK10, and never rise above 10, so the best bloodline will be one that doesn't rely on 12th level powers and above to become awesome.
Yes, this character isn't going to be wading into battle casting spells and engaging in melee at the same time. But that's not the plan. This is essentially a form of switch hitter, dropping the control spells to start, then mopping up.
Thoughts on the plan? Would you do something different?
My thoughts on an Eldritch Knight is a different idea.
Look at sorcerer, psychic bloodline. that is the paizo one, there is also a dreamscarred press bloodline of the same name. Spells don't have somnatic components.
Means you can cast in any armour w/o any problem of feats.
For the martial side of things I would take paladin or anti paladin 2. You want a high cha anyway, and all those bonuses to all your saves are golden.
The only real drawback is it takes a long time to set up. 8 levels sorcerer, 2 of paladin. At level 20 you have 17 levels of spellcasting.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Psychic sorcerer is a psychic caster, so no Eldritch Knight unfortunately.
I would build an Inspired Blade Swashbuckler/Wizard (Wizard is normally best for faster spell progression and therefore earlier EK levels, and therefore better BAB) with fencing grace, that alternates the use of a rapier and using blast spells with 3/4 BAB and full power with magical knack.
You can dump Charisma, Strength, and even Wisdom if you really wanted to. You can go melee with the rapier, buff with the spells, hex others with them, blast with them, whatever you want. The trick to Eldritch Knights is to consider the combat capability after the spells. A Magus is a fighter with spells. An Eldritch Knight is a Wizard that can also kick ass with weapons.
I'm looking to focus on battlefield control with decent melee backup. Someone who's closer to a full caster.
[...]
Would you do something different?
It seems to me that you could simply go full cleric or druid and achieve your goal.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
|
I'm looking to focus on battlefield control with decent melee backup.
And that's still the Magus, if you prioritize int (and thus, save DC) over str/dex. He's got a lot of solid BFC spells on his list, and can easily switch hit like this. Check the third sample build at the bottom of that thread.
You're allowed to take Weapon Spec directly, and can take your pick between the Bladebound (which is an improved version of the eldritch blade) and the Eldritch Scion (which gets a bloodrager bloodline for free). Unless you're actually playing level 13 or above, this Magus appears to fit your idea better than an EK does.
I just started using an EK in my campaign, and while it's early, I do like how I've built him. I went fighter 1/sorc(sage) 6/EK 5 for current level 12. I've grabbed a lot of support/buff spells to boost the party so I don't have to have an insane cast stat for DC checks, as well as vamp touch and shocking grasp, as melee touch spells when things approach me. I've got a falchion to swing around with imp critical and both wondrous and arms&armor craft feats which helps with WBL to get a good belt and headband to support the MAD build. After that, spell penetration, still spell, extended spell, and next lvl quicken spell to take full advantage of sorcerer metamagic manipulation. Spell storing on my weapon to give it some extra bite 1/combat.
Spell storing on my weapon to give it some extra bite 1/combat.
With another bloodline, conductive would be an another great addition to an EK's weapon. I love spellstoring conductive weapons.
|
|
Here's my Eldritch Knight build. He's currently at level 4 at the moment but he's been quite effective. This was a CORE only character and is limited to Core options so keep that in mind.
Class: Universalist Wizard 5 / Fighter 1 / Eldritch Knight 5
Race: Elf
Traits -
* Magical Knack
* Reactionary
Arcane Bond –
* Bonded Weapon: Elven Curved Blade
Stats -
Str: 10
Dex: 14+2
Con: 14-2
Int: 17+2
Wis: 11
Cha: 7
0, 5, 5, 13, 1, -4
1) Fighter 1: Bab +1 | Point Blank Shot (lvl 1), Precise Shot (Fighter)
2) Wizard 1: Bab +1 | Spell Focus: Necromancy (Wizard)
3) Wizard 2: Bab +2 | Arcane Armor Training (lvl 3)
4) Wizard 3: Bab +2 | +1 Int
5) Wizard 4: Bab +3 | Weapon Finesse (lvl 5)
6) Wizard 5: Bab +3 |
7) Eldritch Knight 1: Bab +4 | Arcane Armor Mastery (lvl 7), Combat Casting (EK)
8) Eldritch Knight 2: Bab +5 | +1 Int
9) Eldritch Knight 3: Bab +6 | Spell Penetration (lvl 9)
10) Eldritch Knight 4: Bab +7 |
11) Eldritch Knight 5: Bab +8 | FREE (lvl 11), Disrupting Shot (EK)
You could adjust this to lean higher on Dex and 13str to grab power attack. Universalist's Guided Hand ability is extremely fun throwing an ECB 30ft. Later on upgrade the ECB to Spellstoring and have fun throwing it around. This build leans more towards lots of spell slots and high spell DC's to rely on at higher levels, using melee whenever or having as a solid backup.
I quite like the Wizard 5/VMC Battle Oracle option (taking Skill at Arms as your 3rd level revelation.)
This allows you to jump into Eldritch Knight right at 6th level. This works especially well if you're feeling pretty good on your feats (you sacrifice a lot from VMC, but you pick up a total of 4 bonus feats between Wizard 5 and Eldritch Knight), because you can take Prestigious Spellcaster and have an Eldritch Knight with full spellcasting ability.
Alternatively, you can use Prestigious Spellcaster instead of VMC if you don't mind that 1 level hit by going the "standard" Wizard 5/Fighter 1 into Eldritch Knight at 7 (lining up your level 7 feat for Prestigious Spellcaster - that way you still end up with the same casting progression as the VMC Oracle option.)
My favorite build I've come up with that utilizes this is actually a Spellslinger build, believe it or not. At 16th level, the build is firing off a maximized and a quickened disintegrate each round with no spell level increase that each have an 18-20 crit range, a x3 crit modifier, and a 34 DC (hooray 90d6 crits!) No, it's not the craziest thing that a Wizard could be doing, but the build still has other things it can do, too.
I've been playing a wood elementalist wizard lately and I've got to say the school abilities make playing a wizard who fights a lot easier. Their school spells are well suited to control also.
Something like wizard 5-6 / guide ranger 1 / EK is my thought if it turns out we need someone else to handle melee later on.
Thoughts on the plan? Would you do something different?
Personally, I'd go swashbuckler (inspired blade) 1/arcanist (blade arcanist) 6/eldritch knight X. Trait: Magical Knack (Arcanist); 1st level feat: Fencing Grace (Dex-to-damage at 1st level); your Sentient Sword is a rapier; Arcanist Exploit at arcanist 5: Eldritch Blade*; 7th level feat: Extra Arcanist Exploit (Spellstrike)*. Fill in the rest as desired.
*- or vice versa
I'm personally fond of using Eldritch knights to make transmutation wizards work
Going sorc, barb, dragon disciple, Eldritch knight balancing it to get 8th level casting you can get Str starting 16+4(rage)+4(dragon diciple)+4(level)+6(belt)+10(size)
To have a huge dragon with 44 strength if you got manuals that can be 50 really min max it and start with 20 STR and you can have 54 being a dragon with like 17BAB and 8th level casting
I consider that kewl.
I'm personally fond of using Eldritch knights to make transmutation wizards work
Going sorc, barb, dragon disciple, Eldritch knight balancing it to get 8th level casting you can get Str starting 16+4(rage)+4(dragon diciple)+4(level)+6(belt)+10(size)
To have a huge dragon with 44 strength if you got manuals that can be 50 really min max it and start with 20 STR and you can have 54 being a dragon with like 17BAB and 8th level casting
I consider that kewl.
Sub the Barbarian for Bloodrager, and you're golden.
**EDIT**
One problem, though, is that Inherent Bonuses won't stack. The Dragon Disciple bonuses and the Manual bonuses are both Inherent.
The more you know
Fine by me I'm not a massive fan of manuals as it goes.
One problem, though, is that Inherent Bonuses won't stack. The Dragon Disciple bonuses and the Manual bonuses are both Inherent.
The bonuses from the dragon disciple are not inherent bonuses: "Ability Boost (Ex): As a dragon disciple gains levels in this prestige class, his ability scores increase as noted on Table: Dragon Disciple. These increases stack and are gained as if through level advancement." Advancement bonuses stack with each other and all other bonuses.
If you want to boost Str even more, take Eldritch Heritage (Abyssal) and Improved Eldritch Heritage (Abyssal; Strength of the Abyss); this gives +2 Str at 11th level (assuming that's when you take the feat), increasing to +4 Str at at 15th level and +6 Str at 19th level (including the "effective sorcerer level of character level -2"). These are inherent bonuses, but don't eat into available WBL.
I must've confused the Dragon Disciple stuff with the Abyssal stuff. Oh well, we know those won't stack.
I prefer a fighter/Sorc/DD/EK build myself since your fighter levels stack with the EK levels for feats.
Level 1 Fighter (1)
Level 2-5 Sorc (4)
Level 6-12 Dragon D (Effective Sorc 9, FTR 1)
Level 13-20 EK (Effective Sorc 16, FTR 9)
This combination can be mixed and matched to which ever style you want.
True you lose 9th level spells, I feel they are a little over rated, and you only learn one 8th level spell but all in all it's a fairly balanced build with 16 BAB, 16 effective caster level, +3 Nat. Armor, 11 Fort, 6 Ref, 11 Will, and an average HP of 109.
All of this before modifiers like ability and feat bonuses.
What you lose as far as if you're not playing a magus is the ability to cast your spells in any class of armor, but being able to cast 8th level spells, a little more attack and better defense, I think it's a reasonable trade.
From an earlier post (slightly edited):
Reach Eldritch Knight (however, Rules As Written, Maneuver Mastery doesn't work due to lack of effective Magus levels for Magus Arcana effect, because VMC Magus only gives effective Magus levels for qualifying -- therefore, you may need to pick another Magus Arcana instead -- see the following few posts, and the build below that manages to work around this problem). But if you get your GM to rule in your favor on this, you're good to go, although consider Transmuter Wizard instead of what is recommended in here.
To work around the above problem, see Reach Blade Adept Arcanist with Bloodrager Dip and the following few posts (however, some on these boards argue that the Arcanist Exploit Bloodline Development doesn't work on Bloodrager Bloodlines, so expect table variation; on the other hand, if you get past that, this one DOES fix the above problem with the Magus Arcana Maneuver Mastery with Rules As Written, because Blade Adept Arcanist gives you effective Magus levels for effect, and while it doesn't offer Maneuver Magus itself, VMC Magus does). It doesn't even need to go into Eldritch Knight (which would in fact be detrimental to this build), although instead of your spellcasting class being Wizard, it will be Arcanist (1 level delayed spellcasting progression, although avoiding going into Eldritch Knight compensates for this from the middle levels onwards, so your only non-Arcanist level is the Bloodrager dip).
Also see this introductory post (race selection for the next 2 linked posts) and this Transmuter-based Eldritch Knight build (uses Dual-Talent Human) and this other Transmuter-based Eldritch Knight build (uses Elf; also see next post in that thread).
At one point, I would have recommended Orc Scarred Witch Doctor (+4 Strength makes up for several levels of 1/2 BAB), but the Scarred Witch Doctor errata of around a year ago killed this, even though it made otherwise conventional Half-Orc Scarred Witch Doctors overpowered (did the errata writers forget that Half-Orcs can put that +2 ANYWHERE?).
I prefer a fighter/Sorc/DD/EK build myself since your fighter levels stack with the EK levels for feats.
Level 1 Fighter (1)
Level 2-5 Sorc (4)
Level 6-12 Dragon D (Effective Sorc 9, FTR 1)
Level 13-20 EK (Effective Sorc 16, FTR 9)
This combination can be mixed and matched to which ever style you want.
True you lose 9th level spells, I feel they are a little over rated, and you only learn one 8th level spell but all in all it's a fairly balanced build with 16 BAB, 16 effective caster level, +3 Nat. Armor, 11 Fort, 6 Ref, 11 Will, and an average HP of 109.
All of this before modifiers like ability and feat bonuses.
What you lose as far as if you're not playing a magus is the ability to cast your spells in any class of armor, but being able to cast 8th level spells, a little more attack and better defense, I think it's a reasonable trade.
I like the build but it does require you to take Draconic bloodline for your sorcerer bloodline. Also I think only 4 levels of DD would be better so you only lose 1 more spell level and you can still get the EK capstone Spell Critical. But to each their own. You could also use the new Prestigious Spellcaster feat on DD to get two spell levels on your build and get a single 9th level spell.