Only time I considered a d4 weapon was with Throwing Stars on a Starlit Span Magus, only because Spellstrike makes the weapon die considerably less important. Of course, Chakri's were better and I still wanted a Dueling Sword as a back-up / switch hitting option. That character never saw play, swapped to a Targe with a Breaching Pike.
SuperBidi wrote: Hard disagree. The Wizard is the epitome of the specialized caster. I can build you a Wizard blaster that will outdamage any competition as early as level 7, something much harder to achieve with other classes (even if the Sorcerer definitely competes). Who is more spell generalized than the Wizard? Wizards have the freedom to do almost anything aside from healing. That seems pretty generalist to me, but this is an opinion battle I don't/won't get into. I would genuinely like to see how a Wizard blaster can beat ALL competition by level 7 though, please educate me, I would love to pass it on. I honestly am not trying to stir the pot, but I don't see anything to support that claim. Are Detonating Spell and Explosive Arrival, with Blending, enough to take the edge?
Constant critique is the best way to show dissatisfaction with the current state of the Wizard, influencing developers to make a change or fix a later iteration next edition. Granted it gets repetitive, but people can also just ignore these posts. My 2 cents: I for one, agree the Wizard is one of the least fun/weakest classes in the game. In our party, we have a Wizard who is so stubborn to 'make it work' that he's borderline miserable with the lack of effectiveness outside of no-save spells: utility, archetype healing, and buffing. Which is all he does now, giving up on offense due to lack of success. We're currently only lvl 9, but if he hears "it will get better in later level's" one more time he's likely to quit lol. I'd argue a Wizard's best trait is (shocking) versatility, specifically Spell Substitution, allowing any Wizard to have the ENTIRE arcane spell list at their disposal so long as the spells are learned. That isn't even a core feature, but a specific Thesis. That in itself is insanely strong, but outside of that (or if you picked any other Thesis), Wizards are vanilla spellcasters in a system that makes spellcasting difficult without help. Yes it is a team game so the party should be helping, but not all parties have optimal teamwork, and CHA casters at least have the option to Bon Mot / Demoralize on their own. This places the Wizard on a higher 'difficulty' tier, but that also makes it a 'weaker' class to those who cant find a way to make it work with system mastery or teamwork. And, as others have said, there's nothing unique aside from the insane versatility. Which I feel is where many of the issues come from. Many people just want to be a Wizard because of a preconception, but then discover it has a high skill and teamwork requirement. Or perhaps some don't see the value in versatility and focus more on the difficulty to land offensive spells. When everyone else in the party is contributing and all you see is critical saves, it feels bad.
One thing I wouldn't mind seeing changed is wave casting. I thoroughly enjoy the playstyle and mechanics of the Magus, clunk and all, but my only real gripe is wave casting. You end up with a spell book full of spells that you mostly don't even think about anymore since you only have four slots and studious spells. I use cantrips exclusively with Spellstrike because spell slots are just way too valuable to me to blow on a bit of extra dmg. I use them for buffs or clutch utility like scouting eye or clairvoyance (Though having Howling Blizzard as a Standby Spell was solid). Along with archetyping, the ways to get spell slots are through items such as the Spellstriker Staff (staves in general), scrolls, Ring of wizardry, Grimoire, tattoo, etc. I know these items are supposed to alleviate this issue, but getting to keep a single spell slot per level under your 'wave' would go a long way I think.
Riddlyn wrote: People keep complaining about reactive strike, in all honesty how many melee players have eaten a RS while spellstriking? In 3 years across 3 separate campaigns and I've only ever had it happen once. Considering RS is uncommon AND you need to be crit to lose the SS, I never got why it's so complained about. If it's a big concern, some possible strategies to reduce RS are Striding an extra 5ft to bait RS, delay if you think an ally can bait it, Steady Spellcasting (sucks I know, but it technically helps), or use a reach weapon. I started using a Breaching Pike on my Sparkling Targe, and I only made the swap because the extra 5ft range can sometimes remove my need to Stride. Plus Spartans are awesome. I know many think the action economy is messy, but IMO if it was simplified more the Magus would be in danger of becoming boring. Thinking about what I want to do, and how to pull it off, is half the fun. That's why I could never rock Starlit Span, Spellstrike => Recharge ad nauseum sounds exceptionally boring.To circle back to OP's question, I wonder if it might be a decent idea to make Expansive Spellstrike part of the core chassis? With the amount of spells losing attack rolls in favor of saves, it might open the variability to the Magus spell options. If it becomes a feat everyone feels they need, why not bake it in? The feat has grown on me, as the lower odds are somewhat of a wash since the spell will still do 1/2 dmg on fail, and a Howling Blizzard SS is beautiful. Just a thought.
I suppose I did come off a tad presumptuous. You make a very good point, and in my ignorance never experiencing PF1 (aside from Kingmaker on the comp) I hadn't given that metric much weight. I don't agree with it, but cannot deny it's extant. My Magus experience in PF2 actual play is also mostly Sparkling Targe so I'm a bit biased, but even prioritizing survival the damage output is still obscene.
I feel most people who are not happy with the state of the Magus haven't really played one for any decent period of time. They function very well as is. Spellstriking every turn is a whiteroom line of thought, or Starlit Span which goes against the typical Magus play style.
To address OP question, I personally hope they add a little more flavor for feats aside from Spellstrike augmentation. Expansive, Devastating(II), Distracting(LS), Spellswipe, Lunging (TT), Meteoric (SS), Overwhelming, Dispelling, Versatile, Supreme, Whirlwind... so many feats tweak Spellstrike and I wish the class feats had a little more variability. Feats like Resounding Cascade which is fantastic for weakness exploitation, and Arcane Shroud is really cool. However, since the errata did address quite a few things, I don't expect anything anytime soon.
First Trigger: An enemy hits you with a melee Strike. Reactive Shield may be used as a Reaction to Raise a Shield. Second Trigger: While you have your shield raised, you would take damage from a physical attack. The damage roll happens AFTER the melee Strike roll, so it is a new Trigger, thus your extra Reaction for Quick Shield Block may be used. Dazzling Block is an upgrade to your Shield Block so that happens immediately after the Second Trigger and the conclusion of the Shield Block. Third Trigger: You Shield Block a melee Strike made with a held weapon. You may now attempt a Disarm as a Free Action after you have used your Shield Block Reaction, right after the Dazzling Block occurs. This all assumes you are in Arcane Cascade, your AC didn't exceed the Strike roll after Raising a Shield (negating the Trigger for Shield Block), and the enemy is wielding a weapon. I would definitely run it by your DM so you dont surprise anyone, but yes you should be able to use all 4 of Reactive Shield, Quick Shield Block, Dazzling Block, and Disarming Block in response to a Melee Strike.
I think you did fine, and I'm interested to see how it plays out. It should make for some interesting RP with the brother dead once the sister wakes. I assume finding someone to resurrect him isn't impossible either, especially at that level. It should also impart a solid lesson that retconning the death or allowing NPC death saves could diminish, that you shouldn't murder hobo too often. I also think you described the Redeemer reaction well. If one PC was able to determine what was going on then I feel you did just the right amount of describing, without revealing so much that you almost meta the mechanics to them.
Fighter with Rogue Archetype is how I'd build him.
Deriven Firelion wrote:
Hydrolic Push is great, starts off a bit weaker than Shocking Grasp but has a shove rider. After spell lvl 6 it out damages SG as well
I guess I am envisioning an opening Spellstrike salvo followed by magus analysis. When the enemy closes to melee, Sword Spellstrike and stride away if they're still standing, or Shield if my party could finish it off. That would be the jist, swapping from ranged to melee depending on the enemy movement. I also can't see having enough true strikes to spam it reliably, without fused staff working on a bandolier. Would save them for tougher encounters.
Thank you everyone for your suggestions, been really helpful! Dumping Cha for Str, and maybe lowering Con to 12 for 12 Wis. I think I can pull it off being at range more often than not.
Greetings everyone! I had a build idea for a Finesse Magus, may not be optimal but I wanted to see if it looked viable, had any glaring holes, or anyone just has some advice. The background is that an Aldori outcaste, a half-elf that is spurned due to his elven heritage but still born into Aldori house. Without going too far into the fluff, here is the starting build. Ancestry: Human
The play style is that of a flashy, stylistic duelist. Thrower's Bandolier is a requirement, with shurikens due to reload 0. Moving around the battlefield throwing ranged Spellstrikes with the dueling sword reserved for when enemies close into melee, a true switch hitter. I really like the Gambit-esque feel of ranged Spellstrikes, but hate the concept of a standing turret, seems boring. Free Archetype is in play, going to start with Psychic(Tangible Dream) for the buffed Shield and Imaginary Weapon, and extra spell slots. Eventually going to also grab Rogue for Strong Arm and Sneak Attacker. Considered switching that order if I needed to drop Int to 12. Slightly worried about my Ability array. With him being an Aldori I felt I HAD to take a bit in CHA, though mechanically it isn't all that useful. Perhaps for the occasional Bon Mot, but how often would that even land. Dumping WIS feels like a bad idea also. I know Expansive Spellstrike can be a trap, but it's particularly good with Starlit Span I think. Obviously base damage is low with STR 10, and shurikens rocking a d4, but theoretically the Spellstrikes will make up the difference, and STR will be increased as he levels. Looks really, really MAD. Could drop CON to 12 (risky) and CHA to bump WIS & STR to 12. Other thought was to flavor it as an Eldritch Scion, drop INT, pump CHA... but then Expansive Spellstrike is kaput. Also I had the Remaster in mind with the build, so focus points will be leaned on heavily. Cannot really give the party composition as I dont know it yet. Does this seem viable, or am I trying too hard to make finesse work? Thank you in advance!
I hesitate to put my opinion out as I am no Pathfinder expert, but to the core of the thread, I never looked at the Monk as primarily a master of unarmed combat. A Monk is someone who has dedicated their life to religion (spirituality, ki, what have you), and the perfection of the body and mind. I believe the class represents this basis admirably. The class core bumps their fists to a larger die of dmg before considering stances or monastic weaponry, and it penetrates a lot of defenses... that right there represents their skill in unarmed combat. They have a slew of stances to fill almost any style you might envision. They also come with a lot of bonuses in the form of mobility, legendary AC, and a unique selective Save progression that also brings one to legendary. With all this I dont understand why legendary in unarmed is warranted. Why would they be better at hitting something than a Barbarian who's known combat since childhood, or a Rogue who knows how to target just the right spot. Their talent for martial arts is represented well, and adding +2 to hit doesn't add much, but upsets the balance that PF2e is so focused on. Now, I am not stating that they dont need a bit of help. YuriP's suggestion to touch up Flurry is spot on IMO, and I agree it is too easy for other classes to snatch it. But combat for the sake of combat... fighting... is the province of Fighters and that is why they are the only class (aside from Gunslinger but I'm not going there) that gets to legendary, rightly so. A Fighter who archetypes Monk to be a Brawler should be better at unarmed combat when looking solely at to-hit and dmg. The Fighter focuses it's entire class on fighting, and that's what that +2 represents. My point is a Monk is so much more than unarmed combat, so I dont agree they need legendary proficiency.
Lollerabe wrote:
Sorry, I had posted them both yesterday in different threads before I got your response. You are probably right, I am over reacting a bit. The OP asked about minor power creep, and though it is a very small overall dmg increase, and it is there non-the-less. That was just my personal opinion on it. Is it OP? You are right it is probably not, so I knee-jerked a bit too hard. Time will tell.
I agree it can seem a bit unfair its locked out unless your a Fighter or of a specific ancestry, but I think it works.
CaffeinatedNinja wrote:
100% agree with you, the Falcata does introduce creep, and deadly would be a good errata for it, or Fatal d10. Considering the formula for advanced weapons is usually just a die increase, or an additional trait, when you compare it to a Pick (d6, Fatal d10), the Falcata gets both a die increase and a boosted trait. Fatal d10 would've been fine. It is minor though, and the crit spec might be the reasoning... I just feel we just have a clear cut 'best in slot' for a 1H (and definitely sword and board) Fighter, in a system that seems to try not to have one.
Gotcha, my bad. Well, you sound like you've got the build ideas in hand, nothing left to do but try them out and see which one you like better. No one build is going to be significantly 'better' than the other, just your preference of playstyle and the party you roll with. And you can always retrain if it gets stale. Enjoy! Final personal thoughts: I never really thought True Strike was so important for a Fighter, but to each their own. You already have the best accuracy in the game (next to Gunslingers), and when including demoralize, flanking, or any other buffs from a bard or other source, you will hit often, and crit often comparatively. You'll need to stride fairly often, and the action used on True Strike vs the damage increase from a second attack you have to weigh yourself. It is crucial for, say, a Magus with Spellstrike, and has value if you rock Power Attack with a big 2H weapon (without having to stride), but hardly necessary. Final 2 cents.
I guess I was implying that it seems you might be stretched a bit thin, but you pointed out you are aware of this.
Blessed One is amazing and will allow you to bench Medicine. Trick Magic Item is a great feat that anyone will get value out of. Grab any wand you can think of and you have all the utility and versatility you could ask for.
Kyle_TheBuilder wrote:
Nope, the dedication lets you pick a school but you gain no other benefits from your school selection. There is, however, a feat in the dedication called Arcane School Spell, that will give you the spell associated with the school you chose. As Martialmasters stated, it seems like you are trying to be proficient at too much. I feel you need to find out what the rest of your party is focusing on and build your character to compliment them. You cannot be great at everything, system is just built that way. I came into PF2e with the mindset to optimize as well, but as sessions went on (on session 15 now) I am learning to focus my character and not worry about being 'optimized,' but being compatible with my party. Also, as roquepo is pointing out, playing without Free Archetype to learn the system has solid merits. As you play more and more you will fine tune your character concept and get a feel for your overall goals. Retraining is a thing, and it is great, so you're not locked into anything. It sounds like your GM is lenient, so things you cant normally retrain (like Ability scores) he will probably let you fix if you want to go another direction.
I haven't actually played it because I thought it pushed power-playing too much, but if you are playing with a free archetype, the Fighter with a Magus Dedication, followed by the Psychic Dedication, can pump out some obscene damage and has access to decent magic. On top of just being a Fighter (which means you already have a great class chassis, high HP, dmg output, defense, saves, etc...) you can Spellstrike once per combat... a Strike paired with an Amped Imaginary Weapon for way too many d8's, or an Amped Produce Flame for a bunch of d12's with a splash fire effect.... and those are just cantrips (albeit Amped so it uses a Focus Point, if you don't Amp them the dmg is still really high, just not obscene), so you will still have access to spell slots for whatever kind of casting you desire. Take Dimensional Assault with your Hybrid Study (which works with a sword and shield btw, if you want that extra defense) and you also gain a one-action teleport strike. This build will eventually have 3 focus points but can only refocus 1 at a time, so you can't go all out all the time, but if you manage it well you'll have enough per day. And all of this comes online at lvl 6, with your spell slots coming in at lvl 8. Or, to Spellstrike more often than once per encounter, just roll a Magus class with the Psychic Archetype. Less durable but constant nova spike damage, and Refocus will net you more focus points back. That said, again it is a power-play build for sure, and very combat oriented as you wont have many spell slots to use for utility (but you will have some), and those spell slots will be behind actual casters. It's about the most broken synergy I have found... but it felt too dirty to try.
My first Pathfinder character, I have an Orc named Zol'Gorok. As a child he joined a few raids against those annoying Shoanti, yet due to some nasty cinderstorm activity (and not at all the 'formidable' Shoanti...) he was left alone and near dead... until found by a caravan of the Aspis Consortium. They saw opportunity, Zol saw a life debt. Now adopted by them to be a strongman, he worked in Cheliax for a bit, until being stationed in Osirion. Attaining a bronze badge, he formed new trade routes while aiding with the 'appropriation' of ancient artifacts.
Abomination Vaults begin! He's a fun character, not tied much to the Hold of Belkzen. Rough and gruff, but educated and laid back (usually). Planning on getting Living Monolith as an archetype eventually. Orcs are a lot of fun, and hard to kill! Has a bit of a mercantile flair and a 'life sucks, get over it' attitude, but a good friend and loyal to a fault. Currently level 4, axe and board fighter.
Thank you very much for the input so far. It is greatly appreciated. I have a terrible problem with decision paralysis and I come from 5e so I have a habit to try to optimize. I am trying to move away from that. My stats are: Str 18, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 12, Dex 10, Cha 10. My primary skill will be crafting. So far my typical round is raise shield, stride, strike. If I'm lucky enough to start next to an enemy, raise strike strike. My reaction has been pretty much exclusively shield block with aggressive block. I hear you with your concern about shield durability, and investing too much in my shield only to have it break is a worry. Sturdy Shield can't come soon enough. In theory quick repair will help with that, but combat is so short it won't be practical until I hit legendary in crafting. I am leaning towards Bastion, as I feel like that will allow me to get some Fighter shield feats with my archetype feats, allowing me to be a more fleshed out fighter with my core feats. Sprinkle in a little (very little sadly) bit of casting, Spellstrike for the occasional nova, and a teleport strike. And having three Focus points when I know they will run out since I can't refocus enough doesn't sit well with me. It's just so tempting to expand my spellcasting pool by 2X, and increase my Spellstrike nova potential, by grabbing Psychic. A big part of my plan to fix my action economy is Paragon's Guard, but that doesn't come until level 12.
As far as I understand it, with Magus being an archetype I do not get to pick a Hybrid Study. The Hybrid Study Spell feat allows me to "Gain the conflux spell from a hybrid study of your choice." Dimensional Assault looks to have no requirements, along with Shielding Strike, and is 1 action verbal so it should be viable. Shielding Strike seems a bit meh without the recharge working. I figured being a shield fighter with the ability to teleport strike for 1 action was too good to pass up, especially with the axe crit spec. But Shielding Strike is a flat action economy booster for 1 round, so I appreciate the advice. It may be a better pick with DA only having a 10 ft range.
Hello all! We are playing Abomination Vaults with free archetype, and I have made an orc Fighter that will act as the primary defender/tank: Level 2, just started but I love future planning and theory crafting. We are playing with free archetype, and I was pretty set on playing a gish before I decided to act as the front line guard, so I chose Axe/Shield style with Magus as my archetype, with the plan of getting Spellstrike and Dimensional Assault(Hybrid Study). Spellcasting was a big requirement for me, but with it being wavecasting, and the archetype version at that, it's pretty sub-par... but I am happy with it. Any magic is better than no magic IMO. Party of 6, with a Monk(wrestler), Cleric(champion), Wizard(familiar master), Rogue(hunter), and Thaumaturge(Marshal). With that being said, I was planning on taking Bastion as my second archetype to double down on using the shield, but the Psychic just keeps calling my attention. Better casting than the Magus (in terms of spells slots and getting up to 8th level spells) and it quickly gets me up to 3 focus points (vs just 1 from Magus). The Tangible Dream was my first choice with Imaginary Weapon pushing broken paired with Spellstrike, and the Amped Shield. The Oscillating Wave has been the new frontrunner with the Amped Produce Flame, and my character's affection of Nethys paired with the Oscillating Wave dichotomy. Dropping a Spellstrike with massive fire dmg and AOE splash makes me smile... in theory. I know I can only Spellstrike once per encounter, so my question is: Is grabbing Psychic really worth it over Bastion? It would enhance my Spellstrike significantly and grant me a ton more spell slots, at the cost of shield feats from Bastion such as Shield Warden, Shielded Stride, etc... I can only get so many with my Fighter feats. I would also have to sacrifice Fighter options such as Sudden Charge for Reflexive Shield (Bastion would give that for free). Am I over thinking it with a desire to do more damage, or is Gouging Claw (or limited Shocking Grasp) sufficient? Will I run out of focus points so fast (can only refocus for 1) to make having 3, and therefore the Amped Cantrips, moot? Are shield related feats as required for the playstyle as I feel they are? I know it comes down to "What do I want to do: more damage and magic, or more shield utility and defense." But I am asking any of you with experience to enlighten me on what I can expect to see or feel with the build. So far I have learned that Aggressive Block is waaaay better than it looks on paper. Thankfully retraining is a thing so I can find my own niche, but I would like to tap the infinite knowledge of the Paizo wellspring if I may. Thank you in advance!
Thank you everyone for your input, it has been really helpful. I ended up switching orc to half-orc... optimizing is overrated, multi-talented is really tempting, and my weapon of choice wouldn't feel right on a full orc. As a background I chose Former Aspis Consortium Agent for story and that awesome Reach asp coil (shout out to Ivy). Figure reach will help a little bit with durability. Plus using that with acid splash spellstrike is so thematic... Gnome Flick Mace just feels dirty. Had another character join as a paladin wielding a bastard sword, so with him and a monk, I won't have to hold the front line all the time, though I am the only Shield user. Plan to use cantrips mostly for spellstrike, with the slots going to buff spells and walls. Psychic archetype eventually for the amped shield and a few extra spells. Going to be hard to fit that in with Bastion and Sentinel though.
Hello everyone, first time poster and new to Pathfinder, came from 5e. We are currently going through The Beginner's box, and asking anyone who has experience with the Magus, I was wondering if a Sparkling Targe Magus would make a viable Defender/Tank? I realize that the title 'tank' is a bit inappropriate as that's not really how Pathfinder works, but as a Defender other than Attack of Opportunity it seems a little lacking unless you grab Champion as an archetype, which has a steep Charisma cost. Party currently consists of:
I am pretty dead set on the Magus because I think it is awesome as a class and I've always wanted to play a Gish Style character, but was originally Inexorable Iron before I switched to Sparkling Targe because we had no real frontliner aside from the Monk. We do have free archetypes, so I plan on getting Bastian and Sentinel. I guess my concern comes from the relatively low HP and AC compared to a Champion, Fighter, or Monk that dedicates to this role. And from my little research, later tears of play involves such high to-hit and damage output that Shields would break constantly and my AC would not negate crits well enough. Also the lack of Party defense, from trips, intimidate, or the like. The Magus seems very action-intensive with Spellstrike, Recharge/Conflux, moving, etc... All that being said, I'm going to do it anyway because it sounds awesome. Just curious if I am setting myself up for a hard time or if there's any obvious tactics I am missing. Thank you everyone in advance. |