Augmented Gearsman

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SHIFTER


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Only one: SYNTHESIST SUMMONER


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Slyme wrote:

In case anyone missed it, here is the latest FAQ update:

Domo arigato, Jello-san

Slyme wrote:


Clears up several things, and makes them mostly playable...still doesn't answer the Kitsune Oozemorph being able to shift into human form at will, since the Kitsune shapeshift is not form dependent.

You are still stuck in your oozelike form the majority of the time up until level 4+

Would it be better if Oozemorph would be changed to have more uses per day from the first level to morph into humanoid? Like 1/2 level (minmum 1) plus Con modifier.

Or better, have the A Thousand Faces, Shifter's new gift, right from first level instead of 18th level? It would be balanced out by the (annoying) fatigue condition after each minute of transformation, while removing for a while all the impendances of blobform and making the class viable. And as side effect would make Kitsune oozemorph less "broken".
The fatigue effect (which is, just for clarity, already included in the Fluidic Body feature) prevents from dipping one level into oozemorph.
It's an easy solution at least for an errata of the pdf...


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Gathlain Kineticists got more love in Ultimate Wilderness: with Tree-Born alternative racial feature, Gathlain lose their penalty to Constitution!


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666bender wrote:
Unsworn Shaman >> why? it's not even stronger then the vanilla one.

Minor Spirit vs Spirit class feature::
Minor Spirit lets you choose from Shaman or Witch hexes, while the standard Spirit class feature limits only to shaman hexes (which are inferior in number to teh witch).

By 20th an unsworn gets 6 hexes per day which can be from Shaman list or Witch or choosing from one of her two wandering spirits (which also changes everyday), while a standard shaman will have 8 hexes chosen from the list of her chosen Spirit at 1st level (a standard shaman can have exactly one witch hex, choosing the right hex), while also getting 2 variable hexes chosen each day from wandering spirit chosen or her standard spirit.

There are various witch hexes which are quite useful at low to mid- level (sleep, prehensile hair, peacebond, flight) , meaning that an unsworn gets to use them and later when advancing in level, but the winning point in favor of Unsworn is that it can change her hexes from low levels, adapting to adventure, while a normal Shaman is stick with whatever hexes he has chosen (and to remark, having chosen a single Spirit it can choose from that spirit hexes list only, while an Unsworn of 2nd level can choose an hex from his current wandering spirit, that can change on daily basis).

Wandering Spirits:

Standard shaman have one fixed spirit and one wandering spirit chosen each day, both of which have access to greater and true abilities faster in respect to the Unsworn two wandering spirits. Not too much difference in levels, it's two levels earlier at most. The key of power here is to have more Wandering Spirits, since those can be chosen each day of adventure, meaning the character can adapt more to difficulties. Also, Spirit Magic becomes more useful&stronger the more wandering spirits you have. Guess what? Unsworn shaman has two wandering spirit instead of one of the standard shaman. As a minor bonus, the unsworn shaman's familiar gets a different bonus each day chosen from the selected wandering spirits of the day. A standard shaman's familiar gets the spirit animal bonus of her chosen spirit at 1st level.

Comparation on Spirit Magic:

Spirit Magic for an unsworn is superior having two wandering spirits while a standard shaman having only one. Unsworn gets it at 2nd level though, a shaman at 1st. An unsworn has a wandering spirit right from 2nd level and an extra one at 6th, while a shaman from the 4th. Playing at low levels with soo much variation is fun and reward adaptive playstyle.

Final considerations:

Standard Shaman has wandering spirit and wandering hex to be versatile or to add more power, has more hexes (2 to 4 more), but most of those are restricted to the chosen spirit.
Unsworn shaman have some lag for some class features like Spirit magic (only for the 1st level) and Greater&True Spirit (unsworn stays two levels late), but also gains earlier Wandering Spirit. Also the unsworn gets an expanded list to choose for hexes (witch list and chosen wandering spirits of the day).
In terms of power Shaman and Unsworn are almost the same. In terms of versatility, Unsworn has the edge.


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Wow a lot of the archetypes mentioned so far are archetypes I do really love in concept!
Sadly I have to agree thou, while being great in concept, they are clunky/underwhelming/broken ( read as "not working",as once was almost the Bolt Ace with no proficiency in crossbows )

Adding to the list both the Havocker Witch, for being a witch with no patron and no hexes, in xchange for kineticist's base simple blast with some infusions to apply levels later for price of burning spell slots (and no gather power or internal buffer, no other ability to reduce the burn, except using spell slots); and Phantom thief Rogue, guilty of transforming a PC "class" to an NPC. Best NPC class btw.

Also Dasrak is right, value of archetype should be separated from value of class itself. There are many archetypes for Druid and Wizard class as an example, which have terrible features swaps (feral child& elemental ally for example, trading wild shape for... traps?? or what about elemental companion which also replaces the nature bond of an animal companion and don't allow creatures summoned through summon nature's ally spells???), that go unnoticed and seen as "OK" because those classes still can have full spellcasting ability.


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DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

Hi everybody, next year a friend of mine wants to run a campaign based in Iblydos and heavily focused on Ancient Greek style myth.

I want to build a warrior type character who might not be the strongest, fastest or smartest but is basically the most invincible.

So I'm looking for tips on how to create someone who is nigh-unkillable and I'm willing to sacrifice offensive power to do so.

My requirements are:

Primarily Warrior-type class levels (Barbarian/Fighter/Brawler etc)
Incredible Saves
Good DR
As many and as much Energy Resistance as possible.
Stacks of HP.
Good Charisma (This is a secondary thing).

I actually don't care that much about AC, as I think it'd be thematic to take hits regularly and just soak them up.

I know these boards know how to build an Achilles without that dodgy heel, show me what you got.

Everything of that you can get from Fighter, mostly from Advanced Weapon Training and Advanced Armor Training. Very greeky style would be to fight with shield and a spear, thanks to the feat Shield Brace . There are some AWT which increases fighter's reflex and will saving throws and initiative as well.

Or what about a Medium (the class) focused on Guardian spirit?
Being focused around Guardian spirit, gives proficiency in heavy armor, shields and tower shield, resistance to Acid, Cold, Fire, Electric, Sonic equal to HALF LEVEL, damage reduction HALF LEVEL /-, ability to block attacks directed to allies, bonus to AC.

As a Medium, your character will have naturally high Will saving throw, decent HP and med-high charisma.
With guardian spirit add a +1 up to +6 (can reach more with feats and items and archetype or gillman race) to Fortitude and Reflex savings, meaning it catches up with good saving throws, then adds the same bonus to AC and Constitution checks.

For the attack part there not too much benefit from Guardian Spirit because of medium bab, and simple weapon proficiency only. But there are two routes which are still viable in melee:

a) going through Spirited Charge feat, attacking with lance on mount will do triple the damage, just have to hit once (and medium bab it's still good at that)

b) have natural attacks, which they will attack at maximum bab

For route A, it will need martial proficiency with Lance. You can then optimize the damage adding Power Attack and Combat Stamina. Why combat stamina? because the build benefits from high constitution, synergizing well with combat stamina, and then because of Spirited Charge, you can spend stamina points up to Strength modifier to add damage to the charge which is also tripled if charging with a lance.

For route B, go Tengu or play a Fiendkeeper Medium archetype. With dark communion of Fiendkeeper, character gets instantly two claws and a bite. Instead of Tengu any other race which has some natural attacks is still good (catfolk?). Just remember to full-attack both with manufactured weapon and natural attacks.

Or route C, get Antagonize feat and get beaten instead of allies. Then heal later with some hierophant spirit... At high level with diehard feat chain and the Deathless spell it may work even better.


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Among occult classes in terms of power and versatility: Medium. Medium class can change from day to day its main features, which dictates its role. Medium can even change skills with the Trickster or spells with Archmage or Hierophant. If archetypes and feats are also a thing when speaking about Power and Versatility, I should mention: Channel Spirit feat, to channel a spirit during the day and still benefits of spirit bonuses, adds more versatility during the day to the typical Medium. Then Spirit Dancer, archetype. This is the apotheosys of versatility. Combine the two for dramatic results.

Here some builds of versatiles Medium characters:

Spellcaster Medium:

reanimated medium

halfelf (round ears, blended view, shadowhunter)

stats CHA>CON>all others

_Feats
1 channel spirit (hierophant)
3 channel spirit (archmage)
5 toughness
7 intensified spell
9 empower spell
11 quicken spell
13 legendary influence (spontaneous metafocus)
15 improved legendary influence (spell perfection)
17 ascendant spell
19 summon guardian spirit

_Spells
paragon surge (additional traits[magical lineage])

The goal here is to be a master of spells, choosing the needed spells each day from wizard class with the Archmage spirits, or gains access to the cleric spells with the Hierophant. This medium can be played both offensively as blaster, or supportively, with utility, crowd control, summons and healing (super healing with the hierophant channel and cleric borrowed spells).
With Legendary Influence feat each day you may choose a different spell for Spontaneous Metafocus and Spell Perfection, opening lot of potential for blasting spells like telekinesis, sirocco, battering blast. You never get bored.
It's important to be an halfelf to have access to Paragon Surge spell, adding lot more flexibility, especially if taking the feat Additional Traits for Magical Lineage trait.
Reanimated medium archetype is there because the build easily starts the day with Influence increased, in this way removing the penalties of influence instead of having them.

Spirit Dancer:

medium spirit dancer

human lich template??

traits (fate's favored, defensive strategist)

_Feats
1 Divine Fighting Technique (way of the shooting star)
3 two-weapon fighting
5 double slice
7 channel spirit (archmage)
9 improved two-weapon fighting
11 possessed hand
13 hand's autonomy
15 greater two-weapon fighting
17 noble scion (war)
19 channel spirit (hierophant)

With Spirit Dancer archetype you can change from round to round what class feature have, from sneak attack to spells, to extra attack and damage to channel like a cleric. The weak part is that Spirit Dancer cannot use those much time per day, just rounds per level plus charisma. The trick here is to use the Channel Spirit feat outside combat, to benefit from extra skills of Trickster, or extra spells from Hierophant. Then when you know you are going to battle, just end the channeling, and after the npc moment go battling with spirit dance alterning from Champion to Archmage or Guardian.
This build is focused on having highest charisma possible, then with divine fighting technique of Desna you can attack with charisma with starknifes. Noble Scion of war is there for charisma to initiative.

Skillmonkey:

medium

grippli

_Feats
weapon finesse
spirit focus (trickster)
spirit ridden
weapon focus
slashing grace
VMC rogue

_Spells
0 detect magic, ghost sound, grave words, stabilize, prestidigitation, open/close
1 long arm, expeditous retreat, detect undead, anticipate peril, ant haul, remove fear
2 heroism, purge spirit, rope trick, spiritual weapon, false life, nondetection
3 scrying, dimension door, greater invisibility, fly
4 summon monster V, teleport, deathless, telepathy, reincarnate

In this case the medium is built mainly around the Trickster spirit, which lets you select two skills each day to have maximum skill ranks. If using Spirit Ridden feat then it's an extra skill to choose each day that comes with maxed skill ranks.
In most of adventures having a lot of skills and a small spellcasting ability is enough.
For combat part it starts weak, but grows strong as soon as you get Surprise Attack (it's a sneak attack up to +6d6).
Variant multiclassing is convenient way to roll extra sneak attack dice and adding trapfinding, when choosing Rogue.
Grippli race is there because the grippli favored class bonus adds a +1/4 to all skills affected by spirit surge, which for the trickster translates to a bonus to Every skill...
Build is dexterity focused. Oh having a lot of initiative with the Trickster bonus you can prepare ambushes or scout areas.

Master Medium:

_Class
Medium Fiend Keeper

_Race
gillman
FCB +1/6 spirit bonus

_Feats
1 noble scion (war)
1 divine fighting technique (shooting star)
3 channel spirit (trickster)
5 channel spirit (archmage)
7 channel spirit (hierophant)
9 channel spirit (marshal)
11 channel spirit (champion)
13 channel spirit (guardian)
15 legendary influence (spirit focus)
17 possessed hand
19 hand's autonomy

_Equipment
any medium armor with spirit bonded property

This is similar to spirit dancer, trying to get the most of Charisma ability score. But it's a normal medium, so it has more endurance and spirit surge uses to be a good Marshal. Channel spirit feat is there to have access to any spirit type and change them during the day, which is not possible for a standard Medium .Fiendkeeper archetype is there mostly to have the increased bonus to Spirit Bonus. Legendary Influence feat with Spirit Focus is to have an extra +1 to Spirit Bonus. Spirit bonded armor adds an extra +1 to spirit bonus. Finally the gillmen favored class bonus adds another +1/6 to spirit bonus. Spirit bonus is a very good class feature for the Medium, so the highest the best

long speech about Power and Versatility of classes:
Occult classes are really good and thematic to play, also psychic spellcasting seems to be more "user friendly", especially for the no-material components thing.

That said, I will give my opinion both on my perceived side and actual experience, first with a small bullet list of points I consider when I'm looking for power and another one for versatility (de facto I consider Power and Versatility as two different parameters)

To be powerful:
-able to deal with a challenge of a CR higher X levels from his level. The more challengies it can surpass easily the more powerful it is. An example is the wizard which can use many different spells combined with a lot of skill ranks and deal easily in almost any situation, even fighting versus monsters alone.
Also, the higher the CR in a single field the class can deal with, is equally powerful. An example is the Barbarian or Fighter in a typical campaign which can outmelee easily any monster at equal CR, or an Investigator which can easily surpass any non-fighting urban and social challenge, like solving puzzles, get informations from lore or asking people, anything in which intelligence is involved.

-have a lot of expected powerful abilities that are, in a tacit agreement, recognized as superduper/must have. The more the class have of those abilities, the more powerful can be considered. Also, the sooner (read as "lower the level") the class can have access at those powerful abilities is a sign of power, by breaking the tempo of the campaign or overtaking the gamemaster. Finally, the more uses per X time the class gets, the more powerful the class is.
For the list of powerful abilities, that should deserve a separate thread on the forum, it would be interesting to discuss also about it, but for now I safely can throw a list of them and might be valid in majority of cases: flight, invisibility, teleport, telekinesis, pounce, healing, summoning, any polymorph augment/buff.
Similar abilities are equally valid. Counters to that abilities, like see invisibility or dimensional anchor, are equally valid.

-have power to share&receive. This is a tricky one. There are some class features that lets you add power to other classes. This is a powerful thing, especially in a cooperative playground, it means that the group will not be just the sum of the players/characters, but more of it. Both classes that can share a lot of powerful abilities and that can "receive" are powerful in terms of potentials. One example is the Skald&Bard, which can buff every member of group, easily and give exactly the same power to everyone as it gives to himself. The fighter from other side is a class which have lot of pluses, numerical advantages and lot of very specific/situational feats and features, being above to other classes in those terms, but lacking powerful abilities (see point 2 of the list, above). BUT if the fighter gets teleport from group support or from an item? And if fighter receives flight as well? The fighter will benefit from any of those. This is subtle, but balance of some classes is placed on dispensing powerful abilities (like Shifter class, it was given polymorph abilities, which are recognized as being powerful, so Shifter has the polymorph ability in the table, while a class from the fighter gets weapon training. Guess what? Polymorph abilities are not that rare, so they can will be added to the fighter's group via magical items and spells from the group spellcasters. That weapon training class feature which give untyped bonus and is a prerequisite of many good combat feats and class archetypes? Not really common to find...)

To be versatile:
- able to adapt, both improvising or changing class features (like spells prepared is the most common one) to surpass a challenging situation. There are some class features which let change their selection during the adventure day. Those are great for adventuring in terms of versatility. Alchemists for example can prepare any extract they know in one minute per extract. Brawlers can add extra combat feats to thei repertoire very quickly in combat. Shaman can change their spirits and hexes and spells from day to day, like they change almost all the class, being totally unpredictable and unstoppable.

- ability to have multiple ways when confronting a situation to deal with it. This is a thing alchemists can do it awesomely. They have lot of skills, then they have "spells", then create potions, mutagens and discoveries. And good combat proficiencies. And bombs. And have bonuses when using random alchemical mundane object or poisons. When facing a problem, an alchemist has just to pick what feature to solve it.

Can be versatility be a sign of power? yes, it may be. Having a lot of versatility will contribute having greater power. But is not the only factor, sometimes there's just an efficient, both in time and material resources, combo that can be use in every situation, and game master will have difficult time to deal with it (more because if one of the players is too much above the others, it will be harder to balance encounters).

Disclaimer: I may have mixed causes and effects and put alltogether in the bullet list


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nighttree wrote:
Zwordsman wrote:

VMC= Varient Multi Classing. allows you to trade feats for specific abilities from other classes.

-----

Huh....not something we have ever used....where are the rules for this ?

Pathfinder Unchained book, you can read them also here in d20pfsrd


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Aether Glue, to glue objects into mid-air


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from "Ultimate" "Wild"erness wrote:

Damage Reduction (Ex): At 2nd level, an oozemorph gains

DR 4/slashing while unencumbered and either wearing
no armor or wearing light nonmetal armor.

This might be an hint for either interpretations between:

- keeps abiding the vote of nonwearing metal armor and shields, plausibly losing benefits of Su and Sp class features if violating the druidic code
- or, Oozemorph lost the nonmetal code thing in proficiencies, but still cannot use for some reason light metal armor to gain Damage Reduction

Or, it's just a verbatim: someone forgot the nonmetal word between light and armor


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I played one focused mainly in Intelligence, Dexterity as secondary. The goal was to have the most out of intelligence:lot of skill ranks, spells and arcane pool points, having also a lot of spells, higher DC, having good melee accuracy with arcane acccuracy arcana and dealing good melee damage with Elven Battle Focus. Mainly played as melee combatant with spells used outside combat and pre-buffing, using a lot of arcane accuracy. Bladed dash spell wash shining. Later added combat reflexes feat, lunge (to prevent aoos and concentration checks) flamboyant arcana to get Opportune Parry and Riposte, then spell shield as magus arcana to improve defense. With a lot of arcane pool points and extra spells i could buff easily everytime. With lot of skills i could manage a lot of situations versus environment and other npcs. Later I took a familiar and improved familiar to have a Cassisian angel to wear as an helm. Awesome. Was a figment + sage familiar, used mainly to have all more skill ranks, and used that like the AI of Iron Man (Marvel). I roleplayed it also to unmask it easily in social situation to making the helmet familiar dissipate, and reappear later in combat. I played it till level 13th, when I learned telekinesis and started to use it combined in an spell combat... I was also starting taking two-weapon fighting chain feats to fight with two elven thornblades, but campaign finished shortly later after leveling up to 13th


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Hi
Any chance to see Aether, Wood, Metal and other typical fantasy elements as Jins for the Sha'ir Occultist?

No "that's up to your GM/depends on your play table/can be a good houserule" admitted

Aaand any chance to see printed in future an archetype for Medium class which makes him more Kineticist related, like maybe Elemental Spirits?


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Robert Brookes wrote:

Aldo, if folks wanna discuss archetypes I designed for Ultimate Wilderness I did:

Elementalist Shifter (shifter)
Fiendflesh Shifter (shifter)
Oozemorph (shifter)
Rageshifter (shifter)
Verdant Shifter (shifter)
Weretouched (shifter)
Commando (gunslinger)
Feral Champion (warpriest)
Filidh (bard)
Water Dancer (monk)
Wasteland Meditant (monk)
Menhir Guardian (monk)
Cultivator (bard)
Nature Bonded Magus (magus)

I wrote other parts of the book, too, but those are probably the most fun to talk about at the moment!

About the elementalist Shifter:

designing questions
1) what's the reasoning behind not allowing Elemental Strike class feature during a polymorph effect, like Elemental Form class feature?

2) what about restricting Elemental Strike to melee attacks? Wouldn't be thematic, aside as cool, to apply it to ranged attack or even make energy balls ranged attacks?

3) Elementalist keeps Final Aspect class feature of Shifter, shouldn't it get modified considering that Elementalist doesn't gain a fifth aspect at that level?

4) Why no Aether? Or wood element? it may be good fit for the same book to put some Wood related powers

5) what's the idea of limiting speech and language during Elemental Form? Just consistency with base Shifter class?

mechanics questions
1) elemental strike mentioning energy infusing attacks depending on element chosen. I'm blind, I cant find the part which says what energies are associated to each element, I guess it's like: air -> electricity, fire -> fire, water -> cold, earth -> acid?

2) Elemental Form, it's written "but she gains only the benefits listed in her elemental aspect". Does that mean that it discards normal rules of polymorph gaining base speed and natural attacks of the morphed new body, right? If so, why each elemental aspect then gives Improved Natural Attack (Slam)? It seems to imply that the slam attack of elementals creature is acquired

3) a Shifter at 20th may combine all of her minor aspects, this stays true for Elementalist Shifter. Should this work with Omnielementalist class feature, accessing so to each combined power altogether?


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This is the best class of Pathfinder, and of course it can shine in unarmed fighting as well.

Of course there's nothing to debate at this point anymore. When you will realize it, fav this post. That's all. Easy peasy.


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I hope that the following information can be useful: I've exhamined and rated every elemental defense, including the two new for Void and Wood, considering every defense both with and without burn points and taking in consideration wild talents that have each elemental defense as a prerequisite, in an attempt to find out what is the best defense.

Totals are expressed in a range from 1 to 10, which is the average value based on the following three criteria:
no burn, is the defense as it is with no burn point allocated;
with burn, a rating that considers the bonus gained for each point of burn invested and how much is useful the defense at capped values;
burn burst, this rating is for the "burst" a kineticist gets for the round when using a wild talent of the same element.

Each of these paramethers are ranked with stars(*), from 1 to 5.

Enveloping Winds (Air) Total 6/10:

no burn ** bonus is too small and situational.
with burn *** can shut down archers and the like. What is good here, is the max cap (75%), which is very high making a kineticist virtually immune to ranged physical attacks
burn burst *** great bonus, can even deflect other kinetic blasts. GMs might be tempted to metagame and stop focusing on you while it lasts which can be good for you or bad for your teammates

Wild talents with Enveloping Winds as a prerequisite
Aerial Evasion ***** evasion paired with kineticist' excellent reflexes means immunity to AoE
Engulfing Winds ** losing the defense bonus for a wind wall is not a good trade, unless when encountering a large number of archers or the like (which doesn't happen often). It is Burn free though

Other considerations
Enveloping Winds is very helpful for melee kineticist, but in any other cases most of the kineticists won't find useful to invest Burn in it.

Flesh Of Stone (Earth) Total 6/10:

no burn ***** DR that scales with level is always good, also enemies with adamantine or +5 weapons are very rare
bonus per burn ** as a single defense it may be good, but too much HP are lost in effort to resist more only against physical attacks. Good news, it also useful against other physical-attacking kineticists
burn burst *** DR against all but adamantine is already enough most of the times

Wild talents with Flesh of Stone as a prerequisite
Jagged Flesh ** very effective in those encounters with multiple-attacking monsters with no DR, but not always worth the point of burn it costs

Other considerations
damage reduction is a good way to mitigate the loss of HP by burn, but remember that your kineticist may be damaged by energy attacks also, so beware putting too much burn in this defense especially late in high level games. The best thing about FoS is that is great on its own without burn.

Force Ward (Aether) Total 6.8/10:

no burn ***** temp HP that regenerates in minutes? Yes please. An ability that prevents triggering secondary effects which don't go over those hp? Awesome!!!
bonus per burn **** investing two points in it means no HP loss, with a small HP pool that heals over time and elemental overflow bonuses without hindrances! This is the most suited defense to invest burn in the morning up to elemental overflow desired bonus
burn burst **** temp HP immediately heals a bit

Wild talents with Force Ward as a prerequisite
Force Barrier ** area is not great along with the short duration renders it difficult to use. In most situations your kineticist won't be using it
Telekinetic Globe ** telekinetic sphere is a good spell, but: first, to avoid concentrating every turn a burn is required. Second, Force barrier wild talent is a prerequisite. Third, telekinetic hand can lift more.

Other considerations
Note that there is not hard cap for burning. Gaining temp HP from it for each burn, translates in pumping this defense with Burn, up to elemental overflow max bonus (plus one, Force Ward do it better with an even number of burn points)

Searing Flesh (Fire) Total 5.6/10:

no burn * damage is too low, cannot bypass even Fire Resistance 5. Incinerate arrows only after they have hit
bonus per burn *** increased damage per burn, up to 7 times, which translates to double kineticist level of fire damage. This makes monsters to die while attacking and weapons to break down. The price to be paid is high though
burn burst **** damage is increased again. This serves perfectly as a deterrent for monsters that wants to attack you in melee

Wild talents with Searing Flesh as a prerequisite
Flame Shield *** extra damage which applies to all non-reach melee attack and damage halved by cold-based attacks along with evasion for those attacks is sweet.
Heat Wave *** this is the best defense the fire element has to offer, along with some debuffing. This has unlimited duration, but a kineticist using this must remember to switch it off after every encounter to avoid hindering your party with heat

Other considerations
fire is not a natural defensive element for the kineticist. It is easy though for GMs to metagame monster combat, knowing how much damage is done with searing flesh, which can be good or bad thing so be prepared to talk about it. Fire also is the only element at the moment that has a wild talent usable as an Immediate Action and costing burn, comboing well with searing flesh burst.

Shroud of Water (Water) Total 6.4/10:

no burn **** saves money and equipment slots. Any kineticist will always benefit from the shield bonus. However, it's replaceable by equipment at higher levels and kineticist are not really gold-starving
bonus per burn *** even more AC! the really good thing about it, is that a kineticist may interchange from armor to shield and benefit from burn point in excess. Beware, to keep on pair with magical equipment bonuses burn must used
burn burst * having both armor and shield bonus are not needed, the equipment should be doing this, and your kineticist' AC should not rely on taking burn every round of combat

Wild talents with Shroud of Water as a prerequisite
Cold Snap *** a good debuffer with solid area and unlimited duration. As with Heat Wave, remember to switch it off, and stay away from your party members
Shimmering Mirage ***** concealment bonus is low and does not scale, but it is always on. Concealment can be used also for Stealth skill

Other considerations
This defense can save your kineticist money from bracers of armors, ring of force shield or simply magic armors and shields. The armor or shield bonus is higher than the magical equipment counterpart when investing burn, but losing HP for some more AC may not be the right investment. The real winner here is Shimmering image

Emptiness (Void) Total 5/10:

no burn * bonuses are low and too circumstancial, but negative energy resistance is rare to find and the bonus to will saves helps kineticists a bit. Bonuses does not scale
bonus per burn ** the good thing is that there is no cap for burn
burn burst *** bonus to will saves against all mind effects is really good

Wild talents with Emptiness as a prerequisite
No Breath **** always in effect and does not cost a single point of burn! Your kineticist is now immune to any suffocation effect and cloud or inhaled smoke effects and survive in outer space.

Other considerations
Emptiness bonuses are too small and in most cases unnecessary. No Breath is the gold nugget, proving to be powerful and fun both in and out of combat.

Flesh Of Wood (Wood) Total 4.5/10:

no burn ** having higher AC is always a good thing. This defense begins with a good bonus, but does not scale with kineticist level, forcing burn usage on higher levels. Good news are it is an enhancement bonus, stacking with any existing racial natural armor and rasing AC even more at lower levels
bonus per burn ** the only way to increase that enhancement bonus is taking burn. Question is: is worth losing HP per level for each burn to increase by 1 the natural armor, which could be instead by increased with an amulet of natural armor? Unarmed kineticists will love this defense
burn burst *** burst is OK, but situational

Wild talents with Flesh of Wood as a prerequisite
Thorn Flesh ** very effective in those encounters with multiple-attacking monsters with no DR, but most of the time not worth the point of burn it costs

Other considerations
thorn flesh with jagged flesh and searing flesh can make up for a good retalation-build. Also for 1 to 4 burns, this defense saves your kineticist from buying the Amulet of natural armor

I take this opportunity to say thanks to everyone for their participation in this thread and support, first of all to N.Jolly for the efforts made so far and the great guide made.


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A very simple house rule we use is that Gathering Power for half an hour can be used to refill Internal Buffer


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Actually, a section showing how much burn is expected per level could be useful.
This is a sample chart, showing expected burn per Blast. It assumes a kineticist using a single form/substance infusion of the highest level compared to his class level

I'm also taking a moment to say that I really enjoy reading this guide, being the most complete among Kineticist guides. I would like to see a section of savvy Burn usage, giving advice on when to use Burn and what wild talent type should get prioritized, possibly comparing different playstyles at different character levels.


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Oracle class is powerful and fits any theme perfectly.


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.More kinetic defenses like: Incorporeal or semiincorporeal forms (force, sand, wind, flame, water); [elemental]Skins giving elemental resistances/immunities or maybe an ability to absorb [elemental] damage and reduce the Burn currently suffering; environmental bubble to resist gravity, deepwater pressure, space void, low/high temperature

.tricomposites (no idea sorry!)

.ash themed wild talents to create ashstorms, ashcurses, blighted ash spawn or other Morrowindesque effects

.move earth and stoneshape powers and heat manipulation so I don't have to wait a turn for solarbeam to recharge

.acid attacks, because missing the green guy of "Castle Crashers" as well as other corroding effects and rust

.wild talents to create Totems made of element to gather more energy or to obstruct other kineticists energy/elemental gathering. Also the "totem" reinforces the element is made of and weakens opposing elements

.glass and crystalline spell-like abilities, maybe creating mirrors to confuse enemies (working like some illusion spells) and crystal geodes working like "totems" to increase potency of earth spells or other effects with earth descriptor

.[elemental] sustain to eat/drink your element to survive and a sort of rope trick usable

.photokinesis attacks to blind and damage undeads, fungi and oozes and also to travel fast much like Solar Oracular Mistery

.Damage Over Time effects: lava pool, shockfield or a minor polar midnight

.melee touch buffs to transfer effects like kinetic defenses or transfer Burn from others to the kineticist

.anti-radiation aura, maybe absorbing in exchange of Burn points and Radioactive skin (maybe working like abundant ammunition spell) to recharge futuristic weapons

.use fire wild talents to fuel vehicles, for crafting and forging time reductions and illumination


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Quote:
Pathfinder Rules You Don't Like

Creatures Size Rules. An enlarged creature doesn't even have an increased speed. Also 5ft steps are the same for every size. The bonuses and penalties...

We pretty much houserule all, for those interested:

Spoiler:

-larger creatures than medium get Basic step (which was once upon a time the 5ft step) equal to their space (actually the shortest of the two dimensions), a +2 sq increment for every size larger than medium if the creature is enlarging or a penalty if reducing, to a minimum of 2 sq movement (10 foot)
-larger creatures have area attacks while attacking with manufactured or natural weapons (which is equal to its space)
-difference between tall and long creatures: long creatures have the Slight build special ability, while tall creatures have extra reach, increased basic step and area weapon attacks (they count as one extra size)
Many more I don't remember...


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Be a Sage Sorcerer and focus on INT, then go Arcane Trickster.


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This is a continuation of this thread. Some info about underwater combat are in the GMG while the CRB has only a short descriptive text and a table with penalties applying in water-environment combat. Apparently aquatic creatures just ignore the penalties, while land-based creatures take a -2 to hit and half damage while attacking underwater with any slashing or bludgeoning weapon.

James Jacobs stated however that manufactured weapons even wielded by aquatic creatures are meant to be penalized.
The questions are:

Are natural weapons (both of water native creatures and landbased creatures) affected by the penalties? Do aquatic creatures have penalties while attacking with manufactured weapons underwater?

Discuss and FAQ.

Also, Sanakht Inaros don't bite me for this. I understood your position :P

EDIT: actually the RAW in GMG seems to imply that aquatic creatures do not take penalties with neither natural or manufactured weapons. This part is also missing in the CRB, so the FAQ is a request for putting a text in the CRB.


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the thread title wrote:
Highlevel wizards are balanced IF you sandbag

I just realized that the title ends with sandbag and not douchebag as I was reading. Oh well, I can throw away my well constructed post about wizards with no self awareness...

TOZ wrote:
I had a character who didn't take Power Attack until 6th level. Am I a bad person?

The Pathfinder is a system, TOZ. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Minmaxers, roleplayers, rulelawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it. Were you listening to me, TOZ, or were you looking at the woman in the red dress?


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Jupistar you obviously have see invisibility! I hit the FAQ button to contribute.


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You are all wrong. The last and relevant part of the spell description answers clearly all these questions. I'll quote it for you:

from d20pfsrd.com wrote:


from Invisibility wrote:

Emphasis mine.


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- if you don't use finessable weapons and want a better initiative, get a +1 gauntlet of dueling.

- with a scroll of polymorph any object (3k cost) you can have a good and permanent buff, for example to your strenght using alter self or even immunity to critical hits, bleed and sneak attacks (PaO -> polymorph, greater -> elemental body III) if you play an outsider...

- a Quickdraw Steel Light Shield +5 with the feat quick draw will provide a +6 AC increase to any character without hindering it (just quickdraw the shield at the end of the turn and put it away at the beginning) for only 25 k.

- menacing weapons (one is fine though) and the outflank feat actually work really great together in a tactical party granting a +6 to hit and even better with an inquisitor or a cavalier.

- morning star is one of the best weapons, for base damage and ability to get around DRs.

- shatter defense with a lord's banner (terror) will make your enemies within 30 feet flat-footed with no action required.


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Darkholme wrote:

45ur4 wrote:

- I made a variant Synthesist that does not wear his eidolon, but instead the Summoned Creatures. Actually the Summoner is in an extradimensional space while 'Fused' and cannot use his class features from there, just perceive through his Summoned Creature senses and command it with telepathy.

> Could you explain how this works in more detail?

Binder Summoner Archetype

Lose ---> Gain
summon monster ability level 1 ---> bind summons
shield ally level 4 ---> favorite form I
aspect level 10 ---> favorite form II
life link level 14 ---> favorite form III
greater aspect level 18 ---> favorite form IV
twin eidolon level 20 ---> perfect fusing

Bind Summons:
- functions as normal SLA, except that instead of summoning creatures, the body of the summoner polymorphs and hosts the summoned creature for the duration.
- mind of the summoner is teleported away (unknown unreachable space), while body polymorphs to become the body (or bodies, for multiple evocation) of the summoned creature.
- the eidolon cannot be present while Binding occurs. If the eidolon is summoned when the summoner is Binding, the binding ends.
- magical equipment retains form and functionality, using the rules of the Polymorph subschool spells.
- whenever spells or effects are directed to the summoner binder's body/binded creature all the effects are applied to the creature. If any of these effects persists even after the duration of the binding (1 min per level) the summoner still suffer them until he gets cured.
- for the binded creature use all of his statistics just as if it were a normal separate summoned creature. If the binded creature/binder's body is hurt, the summoner receives 1 point of nonlethal damage for every point of damage suffered from the binded creature (immunities and resistances of the binder are not effective). Also if the binder is somewhat immune or resistant to nonlethal damage, the binder receive that damage without any resistance or converted to normal lethal damage if he were immune.
- during binding, the Binder mind can perceive all from his body surroundings through the binded creature's senses. He can communicate telepathically with the body/creature and has total control of the actions the body can take.Effectively the summoned creature is under total control of the binder.
- when the binder makes a binding through his Bindin summons ability he also makes an opposed charisma check with the summoned creature with a -2 penalty. If he wins he mantain control of the actions for the duration of the binding. If he lose, the binded creature has the control and can direct any action, tough the summoner can still communicate telepathically with it and at the beginning of every round make a new opposed charisma check to regain control for the round. Every round thereafter the summoner and the creature make a opposed charisma check as a free action to see who has the control for that round (usually after the binder gets control back he dismiss as a standard action the Binding).If the summoner fails the check by 5 or more, he loses the telepathic communication ability and cannot make control checks untile the duration has expired.
- if the binder has control he can cast his own spells from the binded creature as a standard action, with a concentration check like casting defensively. He cannot use any of his other class abilities, nor feats or skills that requires the use of the body (which the Binder hasn't).
- if the binder gets knocked unconscious due to non lethal damage (or killed by lethal damage) the binding immediately ends and leaves the binder unconscious or killed just as normal. If the binded creature hp reaches 0 while binded the binding ends also.

Favorite Form
at 4th level the binder select one creature from his list of available summoned creature he can currently cast (normally at 4th level one from the Summon Monster II spell). Whenever the Binder makes a binding thereafter with his favored form, he gets a bonus to the opposed charisma check to get control equal to his binder level. The favorite binded creature also gains 2 evolutions points that he can use for the 1pointcost evolutions paragraph from the eidolon evolutions. These evolutions are set in stone once chosen (though with trasmogrify he can then change the evolution from all of the eidolon and his favorite binding forms). At level 10, he can select a new second favorite form and that forms gains 2 evo points. Now the binder can select evo from the 2pointcost paragraph both for his 1st and 2nd favorite forms. The 1st favorite forms also gains two extra evo points for a total of 4 and can reselect his chosen evolutions. Also the 1st favorite form gains spell resistance 10 + binder level against dismissal and similar effects. At 14th, the binder selects his 3rd favorite form, which gains 2 evo points, while the 2nd and 1st forms gains both 2 extra evo points. The binder can now select from the 3pointcost evo paragraph for any of his favorite forms and can reselect evolutions for his 1st and 2nd forms. Now both the 1st and 2nd forms gains spell resistance 10 + level against dismissal, with the first form can now use any of the Binder's feats. At 18th, the binder selects his last favorite form, which gains 2 evo points, while other forms gain 2 extra evo each one (for a total of 8 for 1st form, 6 for 2nd, 4 for 3rd) and can select from the 4pointcost evo paragraph. For his 1st, 2nd and 3rd forms he has spell resistance 10 + lv against dismissal effects and a bonus to charisma opposed check for Control. For his 1st and 2nd forms he can use his own feats. For his 1st form he can now use his bab and base saving throw bonuses instead of the one of the creature.

Perfect binding:
the binder no longer needs to make a control check, his bindings are automatically under his control for the duration.He can also dismiss a binding with a free action at the end of his round.


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Maybe it's just my impression, but every Magus build I read prioritaze Str/Dex over Int, both for the basic score and by level progression. Even in Walter's Guide is evident (Str build has 18 Str and 14 Int; Dex build has 19 Dex and 16 Int) a predilection for the Physical one over Int.
I do prefer indeed a Int base magus like this:
human 16,11,13,18,10,7 or
tiefling 11,18,13,18,10,5
and by leveling up put every point into INT and divide my magical equipment between Str/Dex and Int enhancement.
More Int means:
- more arcane points
- a consequence of the first, more times you get use of arcane pool and magus arcana that requires arcane points and more spell recall
- more spells and more successfull concentration checks
- more skills (ice on cake)
- more affinity to Magus stuff in general (rod related arcanas, wand related arcanas, spells that use Int like Bladed Dash and Telekinesis and Bestow Curse for Hexcrafters).
Just curious.

Other random considerations:
1- chill touch and frostbite should have been rated higher. Expecially the latter. A quick comparison between shocking grasp and frostbite:

Spoiler:

- by level 2, assuming a spellstrike and spell combat
SG: (1d6 weapon + your Str damage (assume a +4) + 1 per weapon enhancement) * 2 + 2d6 with SG, with a 15% to crit (with a 18-20 weapon) for a total of 27.15 medium damage
FB: (1d6 weapon + 4 Str + 1 weapon enhancement + 1d6 + 1 cold damage) *2, with the same 15% probability to crit, for a total of 29.6 medium damage.

- by level 10, spell combat + spellstrike and extra attack for haste/boots/haste assault/whatever
SG: (1d6 weapon + 6 Str + 3 weapon enhancement + 4 power attack) * 4 attacks + 15d6 empowered intensified SG, with 30% critical keen weapon, totaling 153.15
FB: [1d6 weapon + 6 Str + 3 weapon enhancement + 4 power attack + (1d6+10)*1.5 empowered frostbite ] * 4 attacks with 30% critical, totaling 187.5

- by level 20, spell combat + spellstrike + extra haste attack + quickened magic (gives you one more spellstrike melee attack)
SG: (1d6 weapon + 9 Str + 5 weapon enhancement + 8 power attack) * 6 attacks + 60 + 5d6 maximized intensified empowered SG + 15d6 quickened empowered intensified SG with 30% critical, total of 358.9
FB: [1d6 weapon + 9 Str + 5 weapon enhancement + 8 power attack + (1d6+20)*1.5 empowered frostbite] * 6 attacks with 30% critical, total of 464.85


2- shatter defenses is a good feat chain for Magi, increasing their chance to hit. If Cha is dumped, take them and pick up a Lord's Banner (Terror) or atleast with spellblending arcana get the fear spell. If you are good with intimidation (expecially Str magus with intimidating prowess feat) grab also enforcer to make your enemy flat-footed during your spellcombat routine (you don't have to cast fear here). Just note also that Frostbite deals nonlethal damage, so I recommend a spellstrike+spellcombat with frostbite and enforcer. Also Kensai by level 13th get Int to damage against flat-footed enemies.
3- get contingency and put a Bladed Dash on it.


19 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the FAQ. 1 person marked this as a favorite.

Well, 2 things should be cleared to make more reliable judgements:

1) Can a Bladebound choose to apply a weapon special property instead of normal weapon enhancement? Let's say for example by level 5: the chart says that the Blackblade has a +2 bonus, can it be a +1 spellstoring blackblade? Also, can a Black Blade be further enchanted over the +5 with normal magical weapon crafting rules?

2) A Magus uses Arcane Pool to make his weapon a +1 flaming katana: does he need then to spend a standard action to activate with a command word the flaming ability?

If you think that clarification is needed, hit the FAQ button on this post.


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Haste + Slow.
Grease + Staggering Fall.
Aqueous orb on enemy 1 + Reckless Infatuation on enemy 2.
Jump + Feather Fall.
Stumble Gap + Create Pit (+ Staggering Fall).
Air Bubble + Dancing Lantern.
Ventriloquism + Vocal Alteration.
Alter Self (anyone who has hair) + Strangling Hair.
Countless Eyes on enemy + Any Blinding Spell or Phantasmal Killer-and-the-like.


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We are currently playing a campaign with all of 6 us are Magi (with different archetypes, feats and arcanas). From what we are seeing:

Accurate Strike ****: very good ability, it costs you 2 points, but is worth it (man... touch attacks?! reminds me of the old 3.5 wrathstrike spell). Mirmydarch and others distance master Magi will not benefit from it however.

Arcane Cloak **: good but you can afford by the next level the invisibility spell, so...

Arcane Edge **: nice, but you're probably dealing with it only if you are a Myrmidarch (cause the bleeding applies also to piercing weapons), otherwise you can rely on Brow Gasher UC spell to deal bleeding damage with your slashing weapon.

Arcane Redoubt * or ***: it is good only for Skirnirs. It eats up your Swift Action though.

Arcane Redoubt *: if you are a dex-based magus you can even ignore the bonus to reflexes. Two arcana, level 12, 2 to 6 arcane points and your SA to get a bonus on reflex and evasion? Buy the ring if you need it...

Bane Blade ****: Wow. The Inquisitor is a living proof of how much good it's a versatile Bane. Notice that unlike the other arcanas that offers you new weapon additions, this is automatically added to your weapon instead of your available options.

Devoted Blade **: it is good, but damn you have to pay 3 points at minimum to get that advantage and it occupies your weapon enhancement. They are good, but me prefers +5 weapon (that already bypasses DR)... So it's your choice here. It comes by level 12 also.

Disruptive *: nice feat, but if you ever need it take as a feat. Also Spellbreaker comes as an Arcana by level 9 with no prerequisite...

Enduring Blade *: well, I liked the idea of getting my weapon enhanced for a longer time, but seriously? The basic 1 minute duration will be enough for your encounters and that 1 min/lvl won't last enough for a second encounter so, save you an arcana.

Ghost Blade *: if you are going to need a ghost touch weapon just buy one. Also Bladebound magus can trasform its damage into Force, so you will not need it even if you have taken this archetype. Brilliant energy is good, but be patient and wait for level 12 to make touch attacks.

Lingering Pain **: well, I really really like this arcana, but I have to admit that not everyone will use a space for it, because by the time you are next to a spellcaster you have already killed him (spellstrike or spellcombat) or the reverse. I enjoyed using it when there was a Magus vs Magus fight...

Pool Strike Arcing *: you have to be a fan of the Pool Strike ability, otherwise skip these and instead cast a Lightning ball or Contagious Flame if you like zapping and crippling attacks.

Pool Strike Clinging *: it deals energy continuous damage. Not a good deal due to your Pool Strike damage...

Pool Strike Thunderous **: I'm giving it 2 stars. You know what? 2 arcanas and 2 arcane pts is too much, 1 star indeed.

Prescient Attack **: that's good if you have problem hitting enemies. I really would have liked either a) lose DEX against all attacks or b) the enemy is flat-footed for 1 round.

Prescient Defense * or **: you gain your INT as AC armor and Refl against the striked opponent. First, You don't need Refl. Second, You are relying on better armor bonus. If you are a Kensai or Staff Magus you can reach uber AC against the BBEG however. Last until the beginning of your next turn and uses an Immediate Action (probably your current swift action) and 1 arcane points. Spell Shield is better. And Skirnirs dont' bother with this...

Rod Mastery *: you have to play a very byzarre Magus build. Also you will rely on Metamagic Rods so why bother?

Rod Wielder *: same as Rod Mastery.

Spellbreaker **: I agree with what Walter said in his guide about the Magus' Counterstrike ability. If you have a free choice for your 9th level arcana take this, however remember:

Walter in his Magus Guide wrote:
It’s not worth changing your attack plan to accommodate this ability

Also, this arcana remains useful only while your are in the middle levels (from 9 to 14), when spellcasters still have many occasions to fail a concentration check (Spellbreaker is different here in regard to Counterstrike).

I would like also to say to the OP that I liked and enjoyed his Guide. Well done, Walter, now keep it updated!


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The Kensai on page 54 gives by level 7 a modified version of the Fighter Training class ability, but nothing later replaces the normal Fighter Training the Magi get by level 10. Is this intended?


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It's the same in 3.5, but many people in the area I live don't know it:
readying an action changes your initiative count.


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The Planar Shepherd prestige class of Eberron gives a Druid the ability to wildshape into outsiders and magical beasts with templates of his chosen planes.