War of Immortals: Old Friends and New Faces

Monday, September 09, 2024

Welcome! I’m Michael Sayre, the Director of Rules & Lore here at Paizo, and I’m here to talk about some of the fun and exciting stuff we’ve got coming for you in Pathfinder War of Immortals! Specifically, I’m going to talk to you about some of the new character content we’ve got coming your way.

Class archetypes have been something that have existed, at least in theory, since the beginning of Pathfinder Second Edition. These are a type of archetype that is taken at 1st level, requires you to take a specific 2nd-level feat, and often trades out some specific portion of your class features (whether adding or removing a class feature entirely, requiring you to take a specific version of a class feature, or some similar adjustment). War of Immortals introduces a new set of class archetypes to the game, so let’s dive into talking about those!


Art by Kendal Gates. The iconic avenger, Zadim.

The avenger Zadim. Art by Kendal Gates.


Avenger

The first of the new class archetypes I’m going to talk about is the avenger. This class archetype for the rogue was inspired by the iconic of a Pathfinder First Edition class, the slayer. This iconic, Zadim, was a potent dual-wielding combatant who worked for a splinter branch of Sarenrae’s faith. For War of Immortals, we wanted Zadim and the avenger class archetype to be very representative of the type of rogue character who would get involved in godly affairs.

This rogue class archetype requires you to choose a deity, adjusts your starting skills, gives you a special avenger racket, and replaces the rogue’s surprise attack class feature with the Hunt Prey action. It also makes some adjustments to your sneak attack, allowing you to sneak attack with your deity’s favored weapon. Avengers excel at combatting enemy priests while wielding the favored weapons of their chosen deities, making them deadly and feared warriors during a time when gods and their servitors are at war!


Art by Kendal Gates: Pathfinder iconic bloodrager, Trzikhun, Reaper of Ukuja

The bloodrager Trzikhun. Art by Kendal Gates.


Bloodrager

In Pathfinder First Edition, the bloodrager was a class that mashed together the sorcerer and the barbarian to create a bloodline-oriented warrior with rage and limited spellcasting. We wanted to reimagine this class for Pathfinder Second Edition into something that better embodied the name and that tied more tightly into our game world, which is what we’ve done with this barbarian class archetype. With that reimagining, we brought a new character in to represent the concept: Trzikhun, Reaper of Ukuja, a Matanji orc who is part of a tradition of orcish demon-slayers who drink the blood of shadow demons to gain magical power.

Bloodragers have some modified skills and must choose the bloodrager instinct, which gives them blood rage. Blood rage allows the bloodrager to inflict persistent bleed damage while raging and applies their additional damage from rage to their spells. Their dedication feat at 2nd level gives them spellcasting and adds the rage trait to the spells they gain from this archetype while they are raging, as well as giving them the Harvest Blood action, which allows them to refresh their temporary Hit Points and boost their saving throws against the magical attacks of enemies who they have used Harvest Blood against. This ability plays into later feats like Spelldrinker, which allows them to temporarily add spells to their repertoire when using Harvest Blood based on the type of target creature, such as granting them the wall of thorns spell when they use Harvest Blood against a fey enemy!


The vindicator Imrijka

The vindicator Imrijka. Art by Kendal Gates.


Vindicator

The final class archetype we’re going to talk about today is the vindicator class archetype, which alters the ranger class. This class archetype requires the ranger to choose a deity, is automatically trained in Religion instead of Nature, and is trained in their deity’s favored weapon, gaining deadly simplicity if that weapon’s damage dice is smaller than d6 and treating the weapon as martial for the purposes of proficiency if the weapon is advanced. They also gain a special hunter’s edge called the vindication edge and learn their warden spells as divine spells, as well as gaining the ability to select domain spells as appropriate to their deity. They gain their deity’s sanctification and have some other adjustments to class features like trackless journey and masterful hunter to make them better fit with the other changes.

This class archetype is represented by Imrijka, who was the iconic inquisitor in Pathfinder First Edition. As part of her update to Pathfinder Second Edition, Imrijka’s outfit is now done in Pharasma’s holy colors, and she is known as a vindicator; only vindicators of evil deities are called inquisitors.* This class archetype allows characters like Imrijka to combine the ranger’s strong skill and combat chassis with the potent focus spell casting supported by the vindication edge, making vindicators well-rounded characters who excel at hunting down monsters who lurk among the faithful of their chosen religion. With powerful focus spells like vindicator’s mark and vindicator’s judgment, the vindicator can mark their prey, hunting them down and dealing devastating damage. With feats like Call the Hunt, vindicators make their hunted prey off-guard if they and at least one of their allies are both adjacent to the target, and the vindicator can share their divine sanctification with their allies!




With these three class archetypes (which are not the only new class archetypes in the book!), we’ve brought a couple old friends forward from Pathfinder First Edition and enabled some new character concepts that weren’t quite able to be fully realized to our satisfaction in Pathfinder Second Edition. We’ve also added powerful new warriors to our players’ arsenals that each have their own particular motivations to participate in the War of Immortals. We’re looking forward to seeing you unleash them when the book drops this October!

Michael Sayre (he/him)
Director of Rules & Lore


* Paizo’s move away from the term “inquisitor” is a deliberate choice due to the term’s negative historical connotations. Our intent is to provide our players with a more heroic title for a class mechanic that we know appeals to a large portion of our audience.

Paizo Editorial Staff

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Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Idk. I would rather see Bard become an advanced/non core class or something and have something else fulfill this role people seem to want to fulfill. Music is such an important about myths, legends, stories and culture. Not to mention other kinds of performances. I truly think it can stand on its own as a concept and has a lot to add to it. ( If we do end up going that route, I honestly think an impulse style system with overflows and stuff instead of spellcasting can be a really fun way to make mechanics feel like rising, keeping tension and then releasing said tension that makes performances of all kinds exciting).

But I think we are getting away from the blog post at this point.


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It's worth noting that in D&D 1e, Bard was a VERY advanced class by default, much like the Monk. (I don't remember whether the Assassin was likewise, even if having too low a starting Charisma score locked you into that. Especially irksome when you consider that Assassins had to be evil-aligned.) In fact, the Bard and Monk were expressly optional classes for any given campaign. The Bard was even basically a prestige class.

Step one: Human/half-elven fighter, 15 STR/DEX/WIS/CHA, 12 INT, 10 CON.
Step two: Get to level 5-7, then switch to thief.
Step three: Get to level 5-9, then switch to bard proper, which adds druid capabilities (spellcasting included), entrancing music, and built-in legend lore abilities.

I wonder how much the original Bard's Tale CRPG convinced TSR to make the Bard far more readily accessible. Even if neither the Monk nor Half-Orcs were available in the 2e Players' Handbook.


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^Yes, 1st Edition AD&D Bard was THE original prestige class. Monk and Assassin were straightforward base classes by comparison, but (along with the Druid) had limits on how many characters over a certain level could exist of each, and in addition these all had hard caps on level. Then AD&D Unearthed Arcana introduced higher levels of Druid which restarted the numbering and bypassed the number of characters cap, but didn't get rid of the cap for lower level characters, thereby making it effectively a prestige class of itself.

Liberty's Edge

Ezekieru wrote:
exequiel759 wrote:
There's a confirmed new orc deity, so bloodrager (which has an orc iconic) makes sense in this book.

Honestly, seems like we're getting several new orc deities, if the fabled "orc challenges orc god to take their seat" is gonna be showcased for War of Immortals/Divine Mysteries. Mike Sayre had this fun little tease he gave on Discord about the very same thing:

Michael Sayre wrote:

Michael Sayre — 09/06/2024 12:54 PM

These are excerpts from one of my favorite pieces of lore in War of Immortals. They are not the whole piece of fiction and I have removed the most spoiler-ific spoilers but there's probably some stuff in there a few people on this server will squee about.

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
I feel YY must be of Torag's family and that duty as the second is the witness to a ritual suicide (or could be witness to a duel I guess).

It does not sound good for YY's survival in any case though.

Dark Archive

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Kobold Catgirl wrote:
Also, it might be blasphemy, but I think the old "class art is just a picture of a guy staring at the camera" model is a shibboleth. I think the iconic class art should always show them *doing* something. Draw them parrying a vampire's attack with their bell!

Yes to this! I want to see Valeros in a combat maneuver, blocking high and swinging low (cause that's totally Valeros, swinging low), Merisiel doing that flippy-white-chucking-daggers thing she does with such grace, Ezren throwing a magic missile (some low level fairly generic spell that an 'iconic' wizard should have), Lini with a lit produce flame (or whatever the remastered versions of those spells are going to be).

Standing there like they are prepping for a fashion shoot is boring!

We got the lights. We got the camera. Gimme some *action!*


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Here's hoping we get a war priest closer to the 1e version, reduced spell casting, more reliant on focus spells, and focused on enhancing their deities favoured weapons into usefulness. (Upping a weapon to 1D6 doesn't make it good, just makes it kinda useable).

But apart from that, like the description of the archetypes so far, and having the Slayer sort of back is welcome, while the Inquisitors name being changed makes sense.


^This. I don't have my own experience to back this up (not even time to observe any 2nd Edition PbPs), but I've read in pre-Remastered 2nd Edition guides that Warpriest doesn't really stand out except at the low levels.


Ryangwy wrote:
Kaliac wrote:

Honestly pretty worried after that Vindicator preview, just based on the feat part:

"With feats like Call the Hunt, vindicators make their hunted prey off-guard if they and at least one of their allies are both adjacent to the target, and the vindicator can share their divine sanctification with their allies!"

It sounds like once again the ranger is being designed for melee. Which I get they CAN do, but martial ranged rarely get anything and the Howl of the Wild book is a prime example of that.

And funnily enough whenever a ranger is depicted in art they're usually always depicted with a bow or ranged weapon, yet they're rarely actually designed, mechanically, to favor a ranged weapon.

And this one is no different!

??? Rangers are great at range, what are you talking about. Flurry loves not moving, Precision has a big damage bump that doesn't care about being in melee, they have plenty of ranged feat support and animal companions.

Yep, and both edges and animal companion mechanics all perform objectively better when you play a melee build.

The majority of ranger combat feats require melee, there are no agile bows and all combat pet feats are based around you being in melee with them and flanking is of course significantly easier to position if you're melee.

Ranged ranger might be "great", but melee ranger is just always better :(


Kaliac wrote:
there are no agile bows

There is a reload 0 ranged weapons with agile though: Air Repeater.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Kaliac wrote:


Ranged ranger might be "great", but melee ranger is just always better :(

I mean, given that a ranger with a longsword has 55 less range to work with than one with a shortbow I'm not sure that's a problem.

Like it would be pretty bad if it were the other way around.


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Kaliac wrote:


Yep, and both edges and animal companion mechanics all perform objectively better when you play a melee build.
The majority of ranger combat feats require melee, there are no agile bows and all combat pet feats are based around you being in melee with them and flanking is of course significantly easier to position if you're melee.

Ranged ranger might be "great", but melee ranger is just always better :(

I'm struggling to understand how you got to this conclusion. Hunted shot is strictly better than twin takedown (what with not needing a second weapon), most of the warden spells would prefer to not be in melee with a potential RS user, Snap Shot lets you use reactions (normally a weakness of ranged builds in general)... like, if you just dislike ranged builds in general that's fair, but the ranger has the most support for ranged builds of any core class. You don't need agile or off-guard to function, you're not the rogue. Like, genuinely, how can you look at the class that gets Snap Shot and one feat per level that says 'ranged weapon' and claim it is designed for melee.

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