Ultimate Combat Playtest Away!

All this love for gunslingers ... and I suspect the majority of them would primarily hail out of the Mana Wastes (and Alkenstar) in the Golarion campaign world .... must mean .... that possibly ... maybe ... a Companion Guide ... shall surface?

Resistance is futile!

Think bigger!! Alkenstar AP. ;)

Bah! You put your "rifles" and "pistols" and "ninjas" and "katanas" in my pristine, clean, faux XV century Western Europe! Preposterous!

*waits until nobody is looking*

*dons a fedora hat, grabs two pistols and makes a running window smash while blazing akimbo at a bunch of ninjas*

Think bigger!! Alkenstar AP. ;)

DO WANT

Anyone have a guess as to what the thing hanging below the gunslinger's dagger is with the diamond and star on it is supposed to be?

Also, I'd just like to say that these iconics are ridiculously accessorized. I don't think the ninja and the gunslinger can sit down with all that junk hanging off their torso and waist. Also belts, belts everywhere.

Wow Paizo you really know how to get me through my work day! I only checked out the Gunslinger so far and I love it. My coworker buddy and I are both in agreement a Pathfinder mini of this is desperately needed. I always DM but I want to run a Slinger soon. Im saving the ninja and sammy for late day reading when I need a upper. Thanks again

Hmm Does this mean my wish will come true with a Companion guide for Alkenstar with nice detailed maps and perhaps even a sample terrain map for the wastes (oh would that just be desert?) I would love a better understanding on how the society runs and where those pesky sky bridges flow to and from... Yes I am excited about gunslingers as I also think of the unique monsters that must live in the Wastes just think of a sand drake charging at you while you stand with your side arm blasting away, hoping beyond hope that you can drop it before it overcomes your position and tears you to shreds... I LOOOve it.

Gunslinger?

I... I love you.

Urizen wrote:

All this love for gunslingers ... and I suspect the majority of them would primarily hail out of the Mana Wastes (and Alkenstar) in the Golarion campaign world .... must mean .... that possibly ... maybe ... a Companion Guide ... shall surface?

Resistance is futile!

Think bigger!! Alkenstar AP. ;)

There's a number of devs that wish Alkenstar never saw the light of day, but I'm hoping there's a change in thinking about being more accepting of it. AP may be a bit big (and I fear there may be a lot of revolt from those not wanting a line featured around it -- so I'd settle for a companion guide + module), but I like your manner of thinking. =)

Justin Franklin wrote:

Urizen wrote:

All this love for gunslingers ... and I suspect the majority of them would primarily hail out of the Mana Wastes (and Alkenstar) in the Golarion campaign world .... must mean .... that possibly ... maybe ... a Companion Guide ... shall surface?

Resistance is futile!

Think bigger!! Alkenstar AP. ;)

There's a number of devs that wish Alkenstar never saw the light of day, but I'm hoping there's a change in thinking about being more accepting of it. AP may be a bit big (and I fear there may be a lot of revolt from those not wanting a line featured around it -- so I'd settle for a companion guide + module), but I like your manner of thinking. =)

Personally I like the idea too. From a RP perspective an Alkenstar AP would eliminate a lot of classes as being useable. While I know many would find it interesting, I'm wondering if there is a big enough audience. Would not being able to play Arcane classes and such be enough of a deal breaker for purchasers that the AP wouldn't get done.

Bah! You put your "rifles" and "pistols" and "ninjas" and "katanas" in my pristine, clean, faux XV century Western Europe! Preposterous!

*waits until nobody is looking*

*dons a fedora hat, grabs two pistols and makes a running window smash while blazing akimbo at a bunch of ninjas*

Heh... was thinking the same thing... :D

Justin Franklin wrote:

Urizen wrote:

All this love for gunslingers ... and I suspect the majority of them would primarily hail out of the Mana Wastes (and Alkenstar) in the Golarion campaign world .... must mean .... that possibly ... maybe ... a Companion Guide ... shall surface?

Resistance is futile!

Think bigger!! Alkenstar AP. ;)

There's a number of devs that wish Alkenstar never saw the light of day, but I'm hoping there's a change in thinking about being more accepting of it. AP may be a bit big (and I fear there may be a lot of revolt from those not wanting a line featured around it -- so I'd settle for a companion guide + module), but I like your manner of thinking. =)

Well what if it was something to do with Geb or Nex and involved going to Alkenstar?

I love these new classes so much. Even though I already played a 3.5 converted ninja for pathfinder, I like this version much better than what I played and I'm really tempted to try it out. Also, one of my friends is already making plans to throw away the cleric that he was going to play and make a gunslinger, lol.

Also, I'd just like to say that these iconics are ridiculously accessorized. I don't think the ninja and the gunslinger can sit down with all that junk hanging off their torso and waist. Also belts, belts everywhere.

Don't forget the spats!

Thank you God, thank you Paizo, thank you Eric, Jason, Lisa, Design Team. I'm sooo excited about 2011 products!

My Paizo continue to crush the losers of the coast and their horrible abom4enation!

I'm posting this here since I did not find a "general feedback" forum in the playtest forum.

Please Paizo - use the same presentation you used for archetypes (even if it means slightly longer word count for those new archetypes).

Why?

First, it's easy to understand the relation between an archetype and it's class and the effect on multiclassing.

Second, it reduces the page count, making the book cheaper or leaving room for other things - we already have the progression tables - please do not print them again.

Finally, the less concepts you introduce into the game, the easier it is for us to introduce the game to new players. As today, we only have classes and archetypes to explain - do we really need to add alternate classes to the lot? The game is already concept heavy, keep the count as low as possible, I beg you!

Regards,

I have a nit pick. ("There he goes, at it *again*!") The play test period seems too short to me. Many of us only have time to play once a week, and some like myself, play/GM once every two weeks. In that environment how can can we really contribute effectively? Or rather, is Paizo getting a good enough cross section of feedback in such a short play test window? Could we have 30 days instead (Feb 24th)?

I'm posting this here since I did not find a "general feedback" forum in the playtest forum.

Please Paizo - use the same presentation you used for archetypes (even if it means slightly longer word count for those new archetypes).

Why?

First, it's easy to understand the relation between an archetype and it's class and the effect on multiclassing.

Second, it reduces the page count, making the book cheaper or leaving room for other things - we already have the progression tables - please do not print them again.

Finally, the less concepts you introduce into the game, the easier it is for us to introduce the game to new players. As today, we only have classes and archetypes to explain - do we really need to add alternate classes to the lot? The game is already concept heavy, keep the count as low as possible, I beg you!

Regards,

+1! I think that most of the "OMG NEW BASE CLASSES" problem comes from people going bananas the moment they see a 20-level progression table.

I know the playtest isn't too far into it, but just so we can get the point out, please don't give samurais intelligent weapons and ninjas an eidolon. Not too big a fan of those two shows. Thanks.

I've used various different firearms using classes in my current campaign and probably my favourite to date is the Arquebusier from kobold quarterly issue 13.
My biggest criticism of the gunslinger are the proposed rules for firearms. The reload time is unrealistically fast and the damage too low. With firearms being prone to misfire, why would anyone in a fantasy setting prefer these to, for example, more reliable and equally damaging longbows or crossbows? OK, the critical damage is higher, but still the expense and range of dfirearms make them a poor alternative to bow weapons.
A napoleonic musketeer would perhaps get 3, or 4 rounds off a minute if an expert. So that would be a reload time of three rounds, two rounds with rapid reload. Reloading in 6 seconds is ridiculously and unbelievably fast. I would increase the reload time for firearms, but also increase the damage. We use 2d6 for a wheelock horse pistol or flintlock dueling pistol, 2d4 for a snall snaplock, 2d8 for a snaplock or wheelock musket and 2d10 for a 'brown bess' musket. what tends to happen is that, as in history, players tend to have multiple pistols, and after an initial, high damage flurry, either drop the weapons and use a rapier or similar, or duck for cover and spend multiple rounds reloading. My players like this as it makes fireams more historically realistic and also makes them substantially different from bow weapons.
Weather should also be a consideration for firearms users. The best way to make blackpowder weapons useless is to throw a thunderstorm at the party.
These comments are based on three years of playtesting with different firearms rules with three different groups (including some ex-military players who have used historical blackpowder weapons).

The biggest differences between the Kobold quarterly Arquebusier and the gunslinger are the 'grit' rules, which seem to be a combination of a ki pool and action points, and the various crafting abilities and 'double tap' powers of the Arquebusier. It seems strange to me that a swashbuckling action points system is inserted into a firearms using class. It would perhaps be better to have a swashbuckler class, with an action points system for high drama "million in one chance" abilities that is more open (ypu could have dread pirate type characters, or Indian Jones type characters, not just gunslingers), and perhaps have a 'musketeer' or gunslinger prestige class to emphasise using firearms in the system.
I personally like the crafting abilities of the Arquebusier that allow weapon and black powder crafting that is lacking in the gunslinger. How often will village stores sell bullets and gunpowder in a campaign world? Unless firearms are ubiquitous, your gunslinger is going to find it hard to find ammunition. Also how frequent will magical firearms be? Mages will have been constructing magic swords for thousands of years, but presumably only magical firearms for a century or so, so numbers would be expected to be low. The powers of the Arquebusier give firearms users more equality in the magic items stakes.
Finally, having two free pistols (2000gp) of goods seems over balanced, unless the character has constructed them themselves. The starting cash of the gunslinger should be much lower to balance out their free high cost weapons.
I would give gunslingers a bonus with craft firearms and craft alchemy from first level, and only one weapon. I would remove the 'grit' system and instead place it into a more developed and less specific/specialized swashbuckler class, and give the gunslinger powers, like the Arquebusier, for magical ammunition use and focus on, but modify, the targetting skills in the gunslinger (but remove teh grit point system).

Quick question, and maybe I'm just looking in the wrong place, but does dual-wielding pistols (or hand crossbows for that matter) use the same rules as melee weapons for two-weapon fighting?

Quick question, and maybe I'm just looking in the wrong place, but does dual-wielding pistols (or hand crossbows for that matter) use the same rules as melee weapons for two-weapon fighting?

Yes.

Grit? That's for scrappy middle infielders that can't bat their weight, but usually play in dirty uniforms. Meh.