Eberron or not to Eberron

Is Eberron up to snuff? Should I look into it? I’ve flipped through it and I liked the shifter race, but didn’t go to in-depth. I want a hard nose opinion about Eberron. Is it on the same level as Greyhawk or the Forgotten Realms? Should I be temped to open what could be a Pandora’s box and blasphemy or stay with GH and FR?

Fizz

My Eberron playing experience is fairly limited and I have yet to run an Eberron game as a DM, but here's what I can tell you about it:

Eberron is very dynamic and vibrant. There's a lot of stuff happening in it. Greyhawk and FR tend to fall into the "ancient evil over here is trying to take over this nation" and "this deity is using his clergy to seek a doomsday device" cliches a little too often, imo. Eberron has more down-to-earth adventure hooks and the reason for this is, I think, because Eberron tends to be lower level than the others. The only person in the main books that I've seen so far that is over level 15 is a GOD (well, kinda...). Most NPCs, even the important ones, are under level 10. This means that adventurers will become legendary much sooner than the other settings and also allows them to challenge things that other NPCs would consider "invincible" frequently.

One of the coolest features of Eberron is the continent of Xen'drik. It's like an Indiana Jones' fan's dream come true! There's ancient ruins, jungle tribes of barbaric humanoids, strange myths and legends, and all sorts of cool stuff going on down there. I'm not terribly familiar with Greyhawk, so I don't know if it even HAS a jungley area, but Xen'drik is definitely superior flavor-wise to FR's Chult.

Alignments are a little more blurred in Eberron and it allows there to be a kind of 'dark side' to all the facets of the world. Sure, there are bastions of good and purity to be found, but not every "good" person you meet will necessarily be nice. The religions are more like philosophies in Eberron than actual religions and the Gods themselves don't take an active part in ANYTHING with the exception of the Silver Flame "god" who is actually a living flame... thing... trapped in a temple... yeah.

Overall, if you're a big fan of 'traditional' fantasy, Eberron might not be for you. But if you and your group are getting tired of the Tolkien-esque feel of GH and FR, Eberron is a refreshing change. My group felt the same way and finally, when it was decided that I would run the game, I chose IK instead of Eberron because I like gritty, nasty, steampunk settings with guns a bit more. Still, Eberron has some quality stuff. It's definitely a different game than you're probably used to, but I think you'll enjoy it.

As usual, Fatespinner's analysis is excellent. Personally, I love the Eberron campaign setting - the high level of intrigue, the post-Last War feel, the dragonmarked Houses, the niches filled by each race, and, yes, even the warforged (I know there's a lot of 'forged hate out there - but honestly the race provides for some incredible RP opportunities...I have a player running a warforged fighter/wizard with a familiar fondly referred to as the Lizard King, and it's about the most amazing character I've seen RP'd). But for me, timing was probably the most crucial factor in choosing Eberron to run around in. Eberron is still new enough that as a new DM I feel like I can keep up with the setting. There is sooo much out there for FR that it's a bit overwhelming for me.

I agree with the previous two poster. Eberron is a great campaign setting.

However it doesn't lack high level NPCs especially, but it does lack high level GOOD NPCs. There are plenty of Evil factions to fight - Emerald Claw, Dreaming Dark, Lords of Dust, Lord of Blades (LoBster), but there are a distinct lack of high level heroes to call on to do so. This means it is a bit more realistic when the King is asking a bunch of level 8 or so PCs to undertake missions for the country, as they are really the only option.

Not to mention that they take a more sensible view of the effect of the great number of casters in the campaign.

Make the switch, you won't be disapointed, or even look back.

Another positive point about Eberron is that right now it is VERY easy to get into, as far as settings go. There's only a few novels and not too many game accessories out for it. In short, you get in nearly on the ground floor.

That's always been my major turnoffs about other D&D settings. Realms, Greyhawk, Dragonlance... All of those have TONS of novels, adventures, history, and game accessories put out. So much, in fact, it discourages me from even trying.

So I put Eberron in the same class with Dark Sun. It's a brilliant setting with a unique flavor, and best of all it's currently easy on the wallet.

As others said. My experience with Eberron is also still a bit limited but what so far I have liked it.
It is a step away from traditional settings like FR and GH but still not as far as, say, Dark Sun or Ravenloft. Magic is technology and gods are more distant so the result is closer to Renaissance period than Medieval times...but there are inded opportunities to go IndianaJonesing in jungles of Xen'drik or playing gritty and down-to-earth urban campaign in Sharn...

I would echo all of the above comments. I'm running an Eberron game and it has been a lot of fun - for me and (hopefully - they are still playing and seem keen) the players.

It certainly has a different feel to FR and Greyhawk - the term "steampunk" is bandied around, slightly inaccurately in my view, but it is not a sort of cod-medieval society with magic grafted on as an afterthought but rather a good stab at what such a society might be like if low level magic was relatively common. Again, some people don't like some of the new races, especially the warforged, but IMHO these people need to free their minds a bit and not see "fantasy" and "science fiction" as two separate boxes, the contents of which must never mix. And the artificer class is a very good, original addition to the core classes for any setting.

There is also the ""dragon-this" and "dragon-that" complaint which assumes the setting is dragon-mad - in fact, dragons are mysterious creatures of almost god-like power which hardly appear on-stage (not bit lizards for the PCs to off for their treasure) and the "dragons" referred to in the dragonmarks and dragonshards are the primordial dragons of the Eberron creation myth.

Add in the rules on clerics and alignment, which allow for clerical corruption as a possible story line much more easily, the incorporation of psionics as a major element (as opposed to another afterthough), the various interesting movers and shakers in the setting (nation states, dragonmarked houses, Lords of Dust, Emerald Claw, the Aurum, the Chamber, and so on and so on) and it has a lot going for it for plot generation and roleplaying purposes.

But, in the end, the basic "D&D experience" isn't actually that different. You are still looking at heroes trying to right wrongs (maybe) and fighting the bad guys. Most of what you can do in Eberron can be done in any other setting. But it has a flavour which I like and seems to stimulate my creative juices more than some other settings. Probably a personal thing, but there you go.

I have been DMing or playing Eberron since about a month after it came out, and everything that people said above is all true, but the facet that hooked me was the broken cliches.

In most DnD you see a halfling and thing, oh a Rogue, or you see a half orc and think another barbarian...

In eberron, there are Dinosaur Riding Halfling Barbarians who make up a major country, and the orcs and half-orcs were the first scions of druidic tradition and turned the tides in an ancient war against invading extraplanar entities.

Elves are obssessed with death, well some of them anyway. Humans got a big boosst by having access to more dragonmarks then any other race, and who doesn't think that fighters with the mark of sentinel are cool.

On the same line, the baddies aren't all cliche either. No more spider worshiping Drow, they were priveleged slaves granted extra power by their masters, and eventually they rose up... there are beholders who are simple philosophers... that red dragon over there is a paladin and he needs your help, that mind flayer is a pretty darn good mayor, that goblin you just attacked on sight was a messenger bringing you an invitation to a party, that rich merchant is being followed by his minotaur bodyguard, this guy is LG and the villain, those gibbering undead monsters are on your side, that horde of orcs coming through the mountain pass is the refuges fleeing from something that is actually evil...

Eberron took all the borders and boundries, cliches and niches,crumpled them up and through them out, and created a brilliant new world with a awesome canvas to work on.

my 2 coppers...

The one thing I seem to have picked up from Eberron and totally love is their attempt to put all the elements of D&D into one unified, consistent world. For example, aberrations.

Every major D&D setting has aberrations, particularly mind flayers, as major enemies. But to my knowledge, GH and FR don't really explain what they are, where they came from, why they are aberrant, etc. There was supposedly a mind flayer empire at one time that the gith races came from, but this seems to have little to no impact on the modern world.

Eberron seems to me to look at all the major racial groups and creature types of classic D&D, and asks itself, "Given that I am this kind of world, how can I make these creatures fit consistently inside with everything else that I contain?" It procedes to come up with an explanation that is conscious of and consistent with the rest of the setting. It's an approach that I've adopted in the building of my homebrew, and is one of the most appealing things about Eberron to me so far.

Saern, given you like of combining the random elements from different books into one, check out Secrets of Sarlona. I'm highly impressed with that book, given the range of materials they had to work with and still manage to make it into a cohesive whole.

It isn't comparable to GH or FR because it's designed to be a modern setting; modern politics about race, equality, ethnic identity, tolerance, terrorism and the horrors & benefits of technology are integrated seamlessly into the setting. It's not classic fantasy but more a genre of its own. I like it but only in small doses when I want a realistic low-fantasy setting.

It doesn't work well for epic, high-fantasy, save-the-world kind of games, but it does have a great film noir/Indiana Jones feel.

It's an urban setting primarily and works best in that domain.

It lacks high-level Mary Sue NPCs (thank God) and makes for more interesting low- to mid-level interaction for players.

Magic makes a lot more sense here than in GH or FR, but on the other hand it also feels more like "super-technology" than "glorious, wondrous, unknowable stuff".

It has more room for intrigue and machinations, but the central Five Kingdoms are rather boring and you have to travel to the ends of the continent (or to other continents) for the really interesting locales. Every place, except for Xendrik, seems very settled, so you lose out on the "wild borderlands on the edge of the unknown" feel that some settings have in abundance (Wilderlands of High Fantasy comes to mind).

Overall, I'd recommend it for a series of short modern fantasy adventures.

I'm also an Eberron fan. The setting isn't super developed (yet...) so there is plenty of room for a DM to play around without worrying overmuch about canon. Most NPC use NPC classes, so the characters have a real reason to be the go-to guys and gals for when someone needs something done. It's a great setting, in my opinion, and there's lots of room for all kinds of fun. Check out the Jason Bulhman DMs Eberron thread in the campaign journals to see it in action (sort of).

Wanna see if it's on par with The Realms or Greyhawk?
THE POLL!!!
Some like it, some hate it, I hate it but you need to sit in a Book store and look it over for a good amount of time before deciding. Nobody can tell if you will like it except you. That would be like somebody telling you that boiled cabbage with vinegar is something you would love (if you never had it), some people hate the stuff.

FH

That would be like somebody telling you that boiled cabbage with vinegar is something you would love (if you never had it), some people hate the stuff.

It's more like steak tartare.

And the poll isn't indicative of anything other than the preferences of Paizo forum visitors, which is a tiny fraction of a sliver of the gaming population. Go to a different forum and you'll get different results.

Echoing above ;)

Also, if you want a gritty feel to your game, check out the towers (and depths of Sharn). This floating metropolis holds any number of back-alley dealings, four vastly different crime gangs, as well as fallen angels, ruined districts, and a utopian neighborhood floating above it all. You can run entire campaigns in this place, with numerous hooks and angles that allow for a flexible and interesting plot arc, but I love it as a launching point for any solid Eberron campaign-- I even started an Eberron Red Hand of Doomgame out of Sharn.

I started playing Eberron about half a year after it came out and I have not regretted it at all.

As some people have pointed out, Eberron lacks the high level NPC, but it makes up for it with a high level continent: Xen'drik. And if you feel like going epic ,use Argonnesson.

I own five Eberron books and soon to have six once I buy Secrets of Sarlona (once I have that book and the Magic Item Compendium I own 33 D&D source books, scary, isn't it). I might not be the best person to listen to however since my experience is extremely limited when it comes to campaign settings.

Fake Healer wrote:

That would be like somebody telling you that boiled cabbage with vinegar is something you would love (if you never had it), some people hate the stuff.

It's more like steak tartare.

And the poll isn't indicative of anything other than the preferences of Paizo forum visitors, which is a tiny fraction of a sliver of the gaming population. Go to a different forum and you'll get different results.

The OP posted on a Paizo board, therefore asking for Paizonian preferences. The poll has relevance in this instance. I also followed this up with a very good statement telling the OP to give the book a good look before deciding even though I hate the setting because opinions differ from person to person, but thanks for trying to take the time to discredit everything I suggested.

FH

At the risk of getting flamed for heresy... I didn't like Eberron much. I bought the campaign setting and the Five Nations book and read through them, and ran into a kind of an issue.

They say at the beginning of the main book that, as much as possible, they tried to build the world so that you could include any part of the d20 system into the campaign setting, which is cool. However, the more I read, the more I began to wonder, is whether or not the campaign setting can survive the >removal< of any part of it? As has been mentioned above, the psionic race is fairly important to the world and its history. What if I don't want psionics in my campaign? Is there going to be a great gaping hole in the logic of the world? How about warforged? Are the people who refuse to run Eberron just because it's got robots in it actually correct, in that you can't run Eberron without the warforged?

To be fair, I played DDO for a couple months and enjoyed the very-dumbed-down version of the gaming world presented there, and in that setting, Warforged made perfect sense.

The OP posted on a Paizo board, therefore asking for Paizonian preferences. The poll has relevance in this instance. I also followed this up with a very good statement telling the OP to give the book a good look before deciding even though I hate the setting because opinions differ from person to person, but thanks for trying to take the time to discredit everything I suggested.

Well, many people have given reasons what they like or not like about Eberron which I consider helpful. Just like saying that boiled cabbage with vinegar is mushy and sour and has a strong smell gives an idea if I like it or not.

The poll is problematic since it wasn't multiple-choice "what is a good campaign setting"...Eberron is not my all-time favorite setting and thus didn't get my vote but it is a good setting, and for me better than FR or GH.

Fake Healer wrote:

The OP posted on a Paizo board, therefore asking for Paizonian preferences. The poll has relevance in this instance. I also followed this up with a very good statement telling the OP to give the book a good look before deciding even though I hate the setting because opinions differ from person to person, but thanks for trying to take the time to discredit everything I suggested.

Well, many people have given reasons what they like or not like about Eberron which I consider helpful. Just like saying that boiled cabbage with vinegar is mushy and sour and has a strong smell gives an idea if I like it or not.

The poll is problematic since it wasn't multiple-choice "what is a good campaign setting"...Eberron is not my all-time favorite setting and thus didn't get my vote but it is a good setting, and for me better than FR or GH.

If boiled cabbage is done right it isn't mushy, and I find it to be a good dish, which is why I suggest the OP try a few bites before ordering the dish.

FH

At the risk of getting flamed for heresy... I didn't like Eberron much. I bought the campaign setting and the Five Nations book and read through them, and ran into a kind of an issue.

They say at the beginning of the main book that, as much as possible, they tried to build the world so that you could include any part of the d20 system into the campaign setting, which is cool. However, the more I read, the more I began to wonder, is whether or not the campaign setting can survive the >removal< of any part of it? As has been mentioned above, the psionic race is fairly important to the world and its history. What if I don't want psionics in my campaign? Is there going to be a great gaping hole in the logic of the world? How about warforged? Are the people who refuse to run Eberron just because it's got robots in it actually correct, in that you can't run Eberron without the warforged?

That's an interesting point. I would suggest that Eberron would be less rich without the psionic races and the warforged. But, funnily, I had them both in at the beginning of my campaign, and as things evolved the players lost interest in them both, and those aspects "dropped out" (one had a warforged PC with whom he lost interest, and he was tied to a kalashtar-centric plotline which I then abandoned).

That's not to say they ceased to exist in the setting, but thay are not mentioned at all now. But we are still playing happily in Eberron, bashing giants in Xendrik, sahuagin in Shargon's Teeth, and agents of the Lords of Dust all over the place (my players aren't subtle - they like bashing things). And as far as I am concerned it is still a fairly vanilla Eberron setting.

So leaving them out might close off some possible plot avenues. But there is still plenty left in to keep a party (or parties) happy in lots of campaigns. Obviously, the more you leave out the more difficult it becomes - but once you are leaving out loads of stuff then maybe, yeah, you don't actually like the setting at all.

Is Eberron up to snuff? Should I look into it? I’ve flipped through it and I liked the shifter race, but didn’t go to in-depth. I want a hard nose opinion about Eberron. Is it on the same level as Greyhawk or the Forgotten Realms? Should I be temped to open what could be a Pandora’s box and blasphemy or stay with GH and FR?

Fizz

A "hard nosed opinion" huh?

One of the problems I had with Eberron was that none of the products go into any depth at all. If you read Baker's blog, and/or his posts around the Internets, you learn this was done on purpose. He wants people to make Eberron their own. LOL, as if every group doesn't house-rule the crud out of any "official" campaign setting they use.

Note also what James Keegan said, "The setting isn't super developed (yet...) so there is plenty of room for a DM to play around without worrying overmuch about canon."

And that's a big stumbling point for me with this setting. You have to be devoted to it from the start if you're going to run it 'cause there is no detailed published material available nor will there ever be. It won't be "super developed" ever!

And I'm not looking to hate on your favorite setting. Taking only this design limitation I'm just pointing out that, if you can overcome it readily, to run your own games in Eberron, then you don't need to buy anything published at all.

Want a good idea for The Mourning? Google it.

Want a good idea for building a Warforged true cleric? Google it.

Want to know what the Chamber really is up to? Google it.

Want to know why Jaela D'Irran was chosen to speak for the Flame? Google it.

Want to know how to spell "Jaela Daran"? Google it.

Want a good back story for playing a Lawful Good Medusa Paladin of The Mockery? because it is possible in Eberron ya know Google it.

Want to know... you get the idea.

Why would you ever want to buy official** Eberron stuff? It's just a collage of tropes and a bunch of loose ends wrapped in a high-priced package that makes you fill stuff in to "make it your own Eberron".

And yes, I expect Fizz is no longer active on the boards here but someone might read this and find it useful since 5th Edition will still be officially (and also actively?) supporting Eberron as a campaign.

** And I put "official" in quotes as that concept itself seems virtually anathema to the setting and is the subject of much debate in certain circles. Just Google it if you want read all about it ;^)