Optimization of Hex Strike?

Hey,

I've had a look at this feat and really want to like it.
But how to make it work on a straight HEXCRAFTER

First Can we combine the unarmed strike with spell combat?
2 If you make you're Unarmed strike as an offhand attack then do you take full TWF penalties?
You're offhand strike would not get an enchantment bonus to hit since your hand is empty, maybe brass knuckles would workor at least a casting of Gtr magic fang (via scroll).

Huh. I hadn't thought about this combo before. Seems like a FANTASTIC way to get the most bang for your buck out of Hexcrafter.

If you want a straight hexcrafter, you have to take the Improved Unarmed Strike feat anyways. To answer both of your questions, you need to wield a weapon to use Spell Combat (though I feel the RAI allows unarmed strikes), but simply wielding brass knuckles or Cestus should allow you to bypass this rule, no problem. In addition, if you use an unarmed strike as part of a full attack to do two-weapon fighting, then yes, you take the penalties. However, you cannot use two-weapon fighting in conjunction with Spell Combat.

This does, however, allow you to deliver a hex, spell, and unarmed strike all in the same round, which is BEAUTIFUL action economy. You get to apply AC penalties, Saving Throw Penalties, and whatever else your heart desires, all while doing fun touch spell damage.

Oh, and since Brass Knuckles/Cestus are weapons, you can enchant them via your Arcane Pool.

I found this combination a few weeks ago, but decided not to bother posting it, because of one huge problem:

By RAW, it doesn't work.

Here's why:

Hex Strike (Combat)

Chanting and cursing, you put a hex on your enemy as part of your unarmed strike.

Prerequisites: Hex class feature, Improved Unarmed
Strike.

It specifically requires the Hex class feature. Why is this a problem?

Hex Magus (Su): At 4th level, the hexcrafter magus gains access to a small number of witch’s hexes (see the Advanced Player’s Guide). The hexcrafter magus picks one hex from the witch’s hex class feature. He gains the benefit of or uses that hex as if he were a witch of a level equal to his magus level. This feature replaces spell recall.

Hex Arcana: A hexcrafter gains access to the following magus arcana, or may select any witch hex in place of a magus arcana. At 12th level, the hexcrafter may select a hex or major hex in place of a magus arcana. At 20th level, a hexcrafter can select a hex, major hex, or grand hex in place of a magus arcana. He cannot select any hex or arcana more than once.

The Magus does not gain the Hex class feature. He instead gains pseudo-access through special class features called Hex Magus, and Hex Arcana. Unfortunately, this is not the same thing. Currently only one class has the Hex class feature, and that is the Witch.

That being said, maybe a single-level dip into Witch would bridge the gap.

----------------------

To answer your other questions:

For Spell Combat:
Your main hand can be an unarmed strike.

Your off-hand cannot; the RAW may not explicitly say this, but it is clearly outside of the intent. The off-hand is supposed to be too busy casting a spell to be able to strike with it. And even though, technically, an unarmed strike can be from any limb; by game mechanics a normal humanoid can only possess one "off-hand," and your off-hand is the spell. If you also perform an off-hand strike, you're essentially getting two off-hand abilities at once, and that is beyond the intended function of Spell Combat.

Edit: And yes, if you "off-hand" your unarmed strike, you are considered fighting with two weapons, so TWF penalties will apply.

So,

If a DM were to allow Hexcrafter to take it, accepting the pseudo ability.

Then a Magus with Improved Unarmed Strike could Wear brass knuckles or a Cestus to get an enchantment bonus on his attack (rather than the usual Scimitar.

This would allow a Magus to Spell Combat/Hex strike with his main hand and cast the spell with his offhand.

Or even Spellstrike/Hex strike.

Well if that works it's a nice way to get a continual hex (probably evil eye, since it has a duration and can apply different effects) but by not having a Scimitar your spell crit range sux

So,

If a DM were to allow Hexcrafter to take it, accepting the pseudo ability.

Then a Magus with Improved Unarmed Strike could Wear brass knuckles or a Cestus to get an enchantment bonus on his attack (rather than the usual Scimitar.

This would allow a Magus to Spell Combat/Hex strike with his main hand and cast the spell with his offhand.

Or even Spellstrike/Hex strike.

Well if that works it's a nice way to get a continual hex (probably evil eye, since it has a duration and can apply different effects) but by not having a Scimitar your spell crit range sux

Oh come on now -- Cestus with a 19~20 isn't sucks, it's just to the absolute best. These two things are not the same.

Just remember that one of the key strengths of Evil Eye (and a few other hexes) as a Witch was the ability to Cackle. A Hexcrafter Magus is a lot less likely to Cackle, since he ideally spends his rounds in Spell Combat. So, your Evil Eye may not always persist long enough to keep multiple debuff effects in a constant cycle.

Still quite useful though. I wanted to make a short guide on ways to pimp this concept when I first stumbled upon it, but I refrained from doing so because of the RAW issue I pointed out before. The single-level dip into Witch was something I literally hadn't considered until I was typing my previous reply (yay random epiphanies).

Maybe I'll rethink making the guide in light of this.

Interestingly enough, I had completely forgotten about the Prehensile Hair hex. All of a sudden Hexcrafter seems like it could present a flat damage upgrade for the Magus :P

Also... Cestus doesn't count as an unarmed strike.

Necro- Do brass knuckles count as an unarmed strike?

Or could a Glove provide an enhancement bonus to Unarmed Strikes?

Working on my Hexcrafter guide and want to know if this is workable.

Couldn't a conductive weapon allow hex strike to work through a weapon? Not that it has anything to do with unarmed strike, but hex crafter and spell combat... Kinda makes a hex combat, doesn't it?

There are no unarmed strike weapons as per errata.

Couldn't a conductive weapon allow hex strike to work through a weapon? Not that it has anything to do with unarmed strike, but hex crafter and spell combat... Kinda makes a hex combat, doesn't it?

That might actually work.

Any rules lawyers agree

There is no need for rules lawyers to state that conductive works with a witch's hex. It works.

Yes but could you use it in leau or an unarmed strike for a spellcombat/hex strike?

Lanitril wrote:

Couldn't a conductive weapon allow hex strike to work through a weapon? Not that it has anything to do with unarmed strike, but hex crafter and spell combat... Kinda makes a hex combat, doesn't it?

That might actually work.

Any rules lawyers agree

Actually a bit of rules lawyering is needed.

The conductive special ability only works with spell-like and supernatural abilities that relies on a melee or ranged touch attack to hit its target .

Since hexes don't have an touch attack roll, they cannot be transmitted through a conductive weapon.

Even if they had attack rolls, they could only be used with a ranged conductive weapon, due to this:
"This weapon property can only be used once per round, and only works with magical abilities of the same type as the weapon (melee or ranged)."

Well an immediate use I do see is the healing hex and Major healing.

Now as a Hexcrafter this is better for them than a straight witch.
Mostly because 1. The healing hexes are 1/day for yourself and all allies.
That's why a witch takes it.

2. A magus with his conductive scimitar can use a weapon to deliver a healing hex to undead, saving a spell you would have used to spellstrike instead. A witch can do this but witches don't like melee.

Away from books. Are there any other choice touch hexes a Hexcrafter would like?

Away from books. Are there any other choice touch hexes a Hexcrafter would like?

Actually I just noticed that the grand hex Eternal Slumber requires a touch. So at lvl 18 it could be quite useful, giving an effective save or die on the attack.

Could a conductive bow deliver evil eye?

Shoot -debuff AC
Shoot- debuff saves, cackle
Etc

Could a conductive bow deliver evil eye?

Shoot -debuff AC
Shoot- debuff saves, cackle
Etc

You can only use the conductive ability of a weapon once per round.

But quick-drawing an additional conductive weapon could do it. If funds are availiable a returning conductive thrown weapon might be nice.

Just checked.

Conductive only works with
Healing Hex
Scars Hex
Major Healing
Eternal Slumber

I'll give it an orange in my Hexcrafter guide.
Blue.for undead heavy games.

With a Ki scimitar you could use hex strike on a magus.

How? Hex strike doesn't use ki.

How? Hex strike doesn't use ki.

Stunning fist isn't a ki ability either but you can use it through a ki focus weapon. Hex strike is extremely similar in effect and method I would argue it qualifies just as much as stunning fist does (which you can get without a ki pool).

But don't you need Ki to use it?
At a minimum that would need a 1 level dip to monk

But don't you need Ki to use it?

At a minimum that would need a 1 level dip to monk

No you don't need Ki -- just like you wouldn't need Ki to use it with stunning fist. If it required an actual Ki pool it would say so.

Why not just conductive, as mentioned earlier?

Conductive only works with Touch Attacks. The only hexes that works with are:
Scar and eternal slumber.

Won't work with hex strike.

Magus: When using spell combat, can the weapon in my other hand be an unarmed strike or a natural weapon?

Yes, so long as the weapon is a light or one-handed melee weapon and is associated with that hand. For example, unarmed strikes, claws, and slams are light melee weapons associated with a hand, and therefore are valid for use with spell combat. A tail slap is not associated with a hand, and therefore is not valid for use with spell combat.

so yes to unarmed strike for your wielded weapon for spell combat
with hex strike swift action

A little late to the party on this one :p