This is a sample profile. You're not required to use this format, but I thought it might be helpful. The information in the "Vitals" spoiler is important to include in your profile header, though, so make sure to incorporate that somewhere.
STR 10 DEX 12 CON 10 INT 10 WIS 12 CHA 10
Due to amnesia, you have no background, so that step is being skipped. Instead, add +2 to any two stats. The only restriction is that you can't "double-up" on a stat.
STR 12 DEX 12 CON 12 INT 10 WIS 12 CHA 10
Third, gain +2 to a stat that’s tied to your class. This will generally be your spellcasting or practitioner modifier, but it’s fairly flexible. Example: The Undine is a Druid, so he’s gaining +2 WIS.
STR 12 DEX 12 CON 12 INT 10 WIS 14 CHA 10
Last, gain +2 to four different stats of your choice. The only restriction is that you can’t “double-up” on a stat. Example: I’m putting them in STR, DEX, CON, and WIS.
STR 14 DEX 14 CON 14 INT 10 WIS 16 CHA 10
Optional: Take -2 to two stats to gain +2 to one other.
STR 14 DEX 14 CON 14 INT 8 WIS 18 CHA 8
------------------------------------------------------------------------
You’ll also gain a single trait of your choice and 150gp to purchase gear.
House Rules
Perception is no longer a skill. Instead, your Perception bonus is equal to your character level + WIS + any additional modifiers. Skill Focus (perception) can still be taken, as can anything else that boosts Perception. Out of combat, I'll assume everyone is "taking 10" on Perception unless you state otherwise. Warning: Traps won't show up with this automatic check unless you have Trap Spotter or a similar ability.
I mentioned the Hit Dice mechanic in the recruitment thread, but as a reminder, you have a pool of “hit dice” equal to your character level. These can be used to power an ability related to your background or used to heal by spending an hour patching yourself up. In terms of actions, this is similar to the actions needed to prepare spells (and can be performed during that same period). The amount of healing is determined by your class (d6 for Wizards, d8 for Rogues, etc).
Feint and Demoralize are now “psychological maneuvers.” PSB (psychological maneuver bonus) is determined by BAB + CHA. PSD (psychological maneuver defense) is 10 + WIS + PSB.
The "social skills" have been reduced to two: Deception and Influence. Usage should be pretty self-explanatory. :-)
Jumping is no longer determined through the Acrobatics skill. It's been moved to the new Athletics skill along with climbing, swimming, and running.
Since the skill list has been changed, quite a few Combat Spheres have been adjusted. For example, the Gladiator sphere grants a bonus to Influence (threaten) equal to your BAB, and the Beastmastery sphere grants ranks in Handle Animal regardless of the selected package.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Even though your characters aren't fully built, the game is starting right now. Head over to the Gameplay thread. Good luck!
|
Heya YBD, (or Whack-a-Rogue, a disturbing moniker in my view :p) I'm checking in. Thanks for choosing me!
I have a question about classes who don't have a casting stat but plan to pick up some casting in the future as a side gig. Which stat would they cast from? Is it a set stat or can we choose which to use?
Actually I'll tack on a second question. The advancement chart lists Ability Boost x3 at levels 4, 8, etc. Does that mean we boost three abilities at that time by +2, or that we boost one ability by +3?
Welcome! I had one more quick note that I forgot to add to the original post:
As you're creating your characters, don't worry about creating a hyper-optimized build. My system leads to rather high-powered characters, and it only takes a couple levels to get there. My website eliminated the majority of the 'trap options' for each class and gives many boons as characters level up. There's no need to sacrifice flavor for mechanical power. :-)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
@rdknight: It depends on where the casting is coming from. If it's the Minor/Major Magic Rogue talent, you can choose between INT and CHA. If it's the Basic/Advanced Magical training feat for spherecasting, you can choose between the three mental stats.
EDIT: That's something I was going to explain when the campaign reached that point, but now's a good time as well. :-) It's +2 to three different stats.
|
|
Okay cool, thanks. In thinking about my character up to this point I'd been expecting I'd prioritize DEX, CON, CHA since I wanted to stay out of a potential Investigator's lane. However things have shifted a bit now and INT might be more useful. On the other hand feinting, which is a likely direction for me to go, uses CHA.
On the other, other hand, with your ability advancement explanation, it looks like we have room to grow in new directions after initial ability scores in ways that wouldn't be so possible in standard Pathfinder. I'll think on it overnight, and post in gameplay tomorrow morning, but I'm thinking maybe my Rogue will just become more bookish if it turns out we need it.
Hey! Thanks a lot for choosing me!
Also, thanks a lot for the template, it'll help a lot.
I'll be able to do it tomorrow after work and I'll post as well.
Cheers!
Thanks so much! And it looks like a good group of players and an interesting party.
At first level, do we take both a regular and a background feat?
Just a regular feat. In a non-amnesia campaign, your Background would grant the background feat. For this campaign, you'll gain the various "Background" benefits over the course of the first level or two.
Great, thanks. One more Q: As I mentioned, I had my old character Tassa Bokrugscu in mind. Before I post with that profile though, "Bokrugscu" is a *very* specific surname (means "child of Bokrug" in Varisian, presumably at least being given to her by a parent or parents who worship Bokrug).
I have no attachment either way (and will assume nothing about my background either way, until it gets revealed in game) but figured I'd give you the choice about if you like the profile having that last name or rather I don't.
Oh, and another thing:
I'm still working on crunch but might take the Witchwarped drawback feat as a Boon. If I do, it grants a permanent trait that
#1) counts against my total traits when transformed with Blank Transformation, but NOT–as far as I read it, though let me know if I've got that wrong–when I'm using another transformation (e.g. serpentine or vermin). Pls let me know if that seems right or not.
#2) if I take it, my thoughts were either take a Bite (and then retrain it when I get my Bite from my archetype at L3), OR take Web (which I could keep forever). Preferences?
Oh...and another nuther Q:
Your Shifter gets a martial tradition. I switched back to the Spheres one (mid-caster, mid-BAB, d8 HD). That one doesn't typically get a martial tradition, but I'd happily keep the one you added to your version. ;-) Just let me know either way.
Thanks!
As it turns out, I did most of my sheet just so I can post today, since tomorrow I'll be home later than usual. I need to fill in my Feat and Spheres, but I have a question about the talents.
The Oracle mystery has a "Associated Sphere". Does this mean I get the basic ability from it or do I need to spend a talent on it anyway?
Thanks for the help!
|
Hi everyone and thanks for being chosen GM!
I have been thinking mechanically for my character and now I believe a fighter would work better than the sentinel, if you don't mind. Yesterday, I was going to say this in the recruitment thread and then I was in! Lol
I really like the idea of the net and I'm still go for it.
I have a good amount of questions about feats, but I need to get my thoughts straighter. Nevertheless, here are some:
1) Is the "Net Master" talent associated with any feat? It has both elements to the "Net Adept" and the "Net Maneuvering" feats, yet or doesn't completely covers either of them:
Net Master talent: removes unfolded penalties, gives the drag and reposition maneuvers on entangled foes and apply enhancement bonus to some stuff.
Net Adept feat: also removes unfolded penalties, but also reduces time to fold and let's it be used as ranged melee
Net Maneuver feat: Let's me use net to disarm and trip, and gives the exact same drag and reposition to entangled.
Should I take all of them? Or do you feel you could have Net Adept become associated with Net Master and transfer the option about it being used as a melee ranged weapon be moved to either Net Maneuver or (preferably) to Net and Trident?
2) With your stat generation, we can't ever get even numbers, yet all feats that require ability scores require them as a minimum. If nothing is changed, basically we'd consider them being 1 higher, which would be a nerf. Example, Net and Trident requires Dex 15, but since can I only have 14 or 16, it is "harder for me to get it".
3) Vanilla Fighter's weapon training also have is bonus to CMB and to some CMD vs disarm and sunder, but your modifications to the fighter do not mention those. Can we keep them? For once, the bonus vs sunder are extremely important.
@gyrfalcon: I have no issue with the name. Depending on how the campaign plays out, it may or may not have interesting effects down the road....
The trait granted by the Witchwarped drawback feat only functions while the mark is visible. As per the Witchmark drawback, using magic to hide your mark automatically succeeds, which means (due to how the Alteration sphere works) that it's suppressed when using anything other than Blank Transformation. The "Special" line in the feat is worded that way so you can still use polymorph effects (normally you can only be under one polymorph effect at a time, so since Witchwarped is permanent, it would otherwise completely ban the Alteration sphere). I'd say Bite would be more appropriate for the trait granted by this ability.
Due to the "blended training" class feature, you'll still gain a martial tradition. If you were curious, I made the Martial Shifter the default option for the class.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Wyshart: Thanks for catching that. You should unlock it at Level 1 and then gain a few bonus talents as you progress through the campaign. That's a good thing for me to mention to everyone: if you ever notice an error on the website, please let me know so I can fix it. :-)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Sir Longears: The Fighter can already add that bonus to "saves vs effects targeting their weapon," and I'd say that disarm and sunder attempts would qualify - especially since Fighters eventually become immune to both maneuvers. I'll adjust the wording on my website to make that more clear. As for your other questions, let me do some analysis and get back to you. In all my years of playing PF, this will be the first time I've seen a net used, so I need to see how everything interacts with my system. I know that my version of ABP means the "apply enhancement bonus" parts are no longer necessary, though, so that's a start. :-) I'll have a better answer for you this evening.
|
|
This will also be my first character to touch a net!
I've done some research about it and the four feats that modify it, so I think it is easy if I share this to you. I do not have the sources since it was taken from multiples discussion on Paizo, Stack Exchange and Reddit.
<>The net is thrown as a ranged touch attack that deals no damage no matter what other feats and abilities you have (like, being a warpriest and choosing it as your sacred weapon, because "-" damage is different than "0").
<>Using the net requires 2 hands (this is not explicitly mentioned, but the same happens to all other 2-handed weapons like bows).
<>Hitting the target causes it to become entangle (-2 to hit, -4 to Dex, move at half speed, cannot charge or run, to cast a spell requires concentration check of 15+level and, if I'm holding the trailing rope, target can only move beyond 10ft if he succeeds a strength check)
<>To escape, the target needs a full-round action and a DC 20 Escape Artist check or a DC 25 Strength to burst it.
<>The net has 5hp and hardness 0. While I'm holding the trailing rope, it is attended, so the target needs a Sunder combat maneuver to damage it. If I'm not, it is an unattended object with AC 5 and can be trivially destroyed. Piercing and Bludgeoning weapons do no damage to it.
<>A net must me folded to be used properly. If unfolded, it gives -4 to hit. It takes 2 full-round actions to fold it or 4 if I'm untrained.
Pre-Req: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (net), base attack bonus +1
Benefit: You can treat a net as a one-handed melee reach weapon with a 10-foot reach. Further, you take no penalty on melee attack rolls for using an unfolded net, and you can use one full-round action or two move actions to fold a net.
Comments: As an one-handed melee weapon with reach, the net now doesn't suffer from the drawbacks of being ranged (ooc to attack, cover, -4 to hit engaged target). It now threats a 10ft area around me (even if I can't use it againts adjacent targets) and allows me to use it in conjunction with other weapons on the other hand. This is HUGE for the style. It also removes the penalty for being unfolded in melee and reduce the actions to fold it by half.
The treating as a one-handed weapon is the most important part by far.
Net and Trident
Pre-Req: Dex 15, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (net), Net Adept, Two-Weapon Fighting
Benefit: You can treat a net as a one-handed ranged weapon, allowing you to wield a light or one-handed melee weapon and still make ranged attacks with your net. When you use your light or one-handed melee weapon to attack an entangled opponent, you gain a +2 bonus on damage rolls and on attack rolls to confirm a critical hit.
Comments: This adds to the former feat. With just Net Adept, I can already use it with two weapons, but I'm limited to use it as a melee weapon while now I can have the choice of using it as ranged or melee. This "flexibility" actually do not mean much because if the only penalty of it being melee is that I can't use it against adjacent targets, but if I use it ranged against adjacent target, I eat an AOO.
The interesting part of this feat is the +2 to damage vs. entangled target. The crit confirmation is just gravy.
Net Maneuvering
Pre-Req: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (net), Net Adept, base attack bonus +3
Benefit: In melee, you can use a net to trip or disarm opponents instead of entangling them. You gain a +2 bonus on disarm checks made to use a net in this way. Further, if you have an opponent entangled in your net, you can attempt to drag or reposition that opponent as long as he is within your net’s reach or you control the trailing rope on your net.
Comments: The part about trip is pointless RAW as you can trip with any weapon. I believe the intent was to say that it would be treated as if it had the Trip weapon ability, allowing me to drop the net to avoid being tripped in return. Note that giving a +2 to disarm with a net is exactly the same as giving it the Disarm weapon ability, which reinforces my previous RAI thinking about the trip part.
The part of Drag and Reposition is relevant to the point of allowing the transference of bonus with the net to CMB as you usually do these without a weapon.
Net Trickery
Pre-Req: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (net), Net Adept, Net Maneuvering, base attack bonus +6
Benefit: In place of one of your melee attacks, you can use your net to attempt a dirty trick combat maneuver to blind an opponent (Advanced Player’s Guide 320). If you have an opponent entangled in your net, you can attempt to trip that opponent as long as he is within your net’s reach or you control the trailing rope on your net. You also gain a +2 bonus on drag and reposition combat maneuver checks you make using your net.
Benefit: The point about allowing to blind is great, because Dirty Trick depends a lot on the present circumstances. It also allows to apply weapon damages to it. Since the feat requires Net Maneuvering, the point about trip is pointless IMO. The bonus to the other maneuvers are cool.
Additionally, you may make drag and reposition attempts against creatures entangled by your nets as long as you control the trailing rope. You may add any enhancement bonus to attack rolls that the net possesses on these combat maneuver checks. This talent applies to any weapon that functions as a net, such as the lasso (as applicable) and snag net.
Comments: The talent also removes the unfolded penalties like Net Adept, but since it doesn't change it to melee, this applies to both melee and ranged. The part about Reposition and Drag are exactly the same as Net Maneuvering
All in all, even with some overlaps, there are important changes on all feats plus the talent to justify me having all of them. The only point is that since there are overlaps, each feat that is a tiny bit nerfed.
I'm honestly not sure how good nets are.
Thanks for the help, YBD. I'm pretty sure I am done with my sheet. I've considered I got Alter Time from my Mystery and then picked 3 talents from there and also have chosen my feat.
I am assuming we are using the "ultimate" version from the Wiki and not the Core one. If that is not right, I can fix it easily.
For the other players: I put ranks in Influence, Knowledge (Divine, History, Planes), Sense Motive and UMD. If anyone wants to be the specialist on any of those, I can remove those ranks, no problem.
@Wyshart: That's correct. "Ultimate" Spheres is the newest version and incorporates all of the errata.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Sir Longears: Thanks for info. It's all stuff I've seen previously, but having it in one place is helpful. I spent downtime at work going over what I'm assuming are the same discussions you have. From what I've gathered, nets are a convoluted mess due to the rules changing as more sourcebooks have come out, and because the relevant information's spread across multiple sources, the feat authors missed a thing or two.
The same rules apply when you throw a weapon from each hand. Treat a dart or shuriken as a light weapon when used in this manner, and treat a bolas, javelin, net, or sling as a one-handed weapon.
This bit of information was helpful for me. Without any feats or talents, a net is a one-handed ranged weapon.
Net Adept lets you treat it as a one-handed melee weapon (10ft reach) and removes the unfolded penalty.
Net and Trident is mostly redundant due to the above TWF rule that I'm assuming the author overlooked. As it stands, it just gives a damage and crit confirmation bonus vs entangled foes (even if they aren't entangled by your net).
Net Maneuvering is a victim of rules changes on Paizo's part. If it was ever rewritten, I believe it would give nets the trip and disarm properties as everything else can already be done.
Net Trickery appears to work as intended although the tripping part could already be done.
Net Master Removes the unfolded penalty and makes nets harder to escape from. Everything relating to "applies enhancement bonus" is unnecessary due to ABP.
After reviewing everything, my opinion is that Net Master is fine as-is with the addition of reducing the required folding time. Net Adept would now let you treat it as a one-handed reach melee weapon and give the trip and disarm properties. Net Trickery would let you make a dirty trick to blind instead of a melee attack and give the bonus to drag/reposition maneuvers.
Personally, I don't think Net and Trident is necessary any more. It's not exactly the same, but the Perfect Set-Up talent from the Dual-Wielding sphere seems like a natural replacement. Main-hand net attack will entangle, and then off-hand trident attack will target FF AC and deal extra damage. That seems like a pretty nasty combo. :-)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
After doing a little reading on ability score feat prerequisites, it seems that it's a holdover from old editions mainly used to give odd ability scores some value. As my system doesn't allow for them, I think that can be changed without harming anything. I'd say treat any odd-numbered ability prerequisite as 1 lower (so Net and Trident would require DEX 14).
|
|
Ok, I agree. I believe Net and Trident is still worth just because of the damage. It is the equivalent of Weapon Specialization.
The weird thing about going a twf route is that after you throw your net, you've lost your weapon basically. Your hand is still occupied if you are holding the rope, so perhaps unarmed strike could be used Trident plus a kick... Or, if you let go of the net, you can grab the Trident two handed.
I'm kind of trying to work a very mixed fighting style. I'll see what I can cook. It can be great... Or stink!
It's definitely an odd fighting style. Either of the options you mentioned could work as there are four Spheres focused on unarmed combat, and the Lancer sphere deals with impaling opponents. Since you've settled on Fighter, by the way, I'll mention that Extra Combat Talent is a combat feat and therefore selectable with your Martial Spontaneity class feature.
From what I see of the party so far, I think it would be better to stick with base Rogue rather than going with the Assassin archetype. If one thinks about the Assassin as basically trading away some utility to be a bit better in combat, I think it's going to be better to keep the utility.
It was really tough to give up an 18 Dex to spread ability scores more since Dex is so fundamental to Rogues. I hope I don't regret it.
Funny, I was typing my gameplay post as YBD posted. It's a total coincidence that I chose right for my post since I hadn't seen the GM post before I submitted mine.
@Wyshart: Mya is definitely not on medium load.
Since she is small, all "sized equipment" (armor, shield and weapons) weight just half as much, so she is currently carrying 18 lbs and your light load should be 24.75 lbs (3/4 of 33 lbs).
@Everyone: Also, let me know if you are having trouble understanding what Baldrek is saying. I love to use accents whenever possible, but I can tone it down or get rid of it if you are not enjoying it.
@Sir Longears: You are absolutely right! I guess it slipped my mind. Thanks a lot for the help, I'll fix it later today.
About the accent, I don't mind it, it has not been hard to read so far.
|
|
@GM YBD: I've taken a look on the Lancer sphere and I like the impale thing since it is really fitting, however it is very confusing and, IMO, incredibly powerful.
Following are the RAW with my thoughts on potential clarifications and even nerfs... yes, nerfs, because I'd rather have those now than halfway through gameplay.
This impalement may be broken when you lose control of the weapon used for the attack (such as by being disarmed), or by the impaled creature making a combat maneuver check as a standard action with a DC equal to your CMD. If you control the weapon being used to impale a creature, you may choose to automatically remove the weapon as a move action. When the impaled creature loses the impaled condition, they take bleed damage equal to the damage dice of the weapon used to impale the creature. If a creature is impaled by a weapon that is not controlled by another creature, they are able to move, but all movement speeds they possess are reduced by 1/2 (minimum 5 ft.).
You must make an opposed Strength check against the impaled creature to move as a part of the move action (this Strength check is made by your mount if you are mounted), moving up to half of your base speed while the impaled creature is dragged along with you (this movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity).
If you are impaling two or more creatures, you must make an opposed Strength check against all currently impaled creatures in order to move, and if you are subjected to forced movement, you must make an opposed Strength check against all impaled creature; failing this check against any impaled creature forces you to release any weapons you’re using to impale a creature (or to end impaling a creature with your unarmed strikes or natural attacks) immediately, while success drags any impaled creatures with you during this forced movement.
You can also choose to release the weapon as a free action without dealing damage (although you cannot release natural weapons). A creature may attempt a grapple check against an impaled creature’s CMD to assume control of the weapon impaling that creature as long as another creature is not controlling it. If so, the creature making the attempt receives a +4 bonus on the grapple check.
Talents with the (impale) tag can only be used against creatures who are impaled by this ability when you are controlling the impaling weapon.
Now, here is a rearranged version with some small nerfs so it at least cover the gaps in it. Just to clarify, we can go with the RAW version for sure, but it could create strange situations.
While controlling the weapon, both you and the impaled creature's movement speeds are reduced by half and you may use the controlled weapon only to attack the impaled creature, ignoring its armor, natural armor and shield bonus to AC. If either you or the impaled creature attempt to move, you must make opposed Strength checks. If you fail, you lose control of the weapon, while if you succeed you can stop the impaled creature from moving or spend a standard action to move the creature with you. If you are disarmed, you lose control over the weapon and the impaled creature.
An impaled creature may attempt a combat maneuver check against your CMD to either break your control over the weapon or to remove it. If no one is controlling the weapon, the impaled creature may remove the weapon as a move action. Any creature may attempt a grapple check against the impaled creature's CMD to gain control over the weapon. This check is made with a +4 bonus.
<> Condition Impaled: An impaled creature is battered and must succeed a concentration check (DC 10 + user CMB + spell level) to cast any spell or spell-like ability. A creature can only be impaled by a single weapon and further attempts to impaled it automatically fail. When the impaling weapon is removed, the creature loses the impaled condition and it takes bleed damage equal to the damage dice of the impaling weapon.
Now here are some possible additional nerfs if you seem fit.
2) Remove the +4 bonus to grapple to regain control of the weapon.
3) Reduce the bleed damage by half the weapon die, or
4) Change the bleed damage to regular damage.
Once we settle what to do, we'll then need to figure out how this would interact with the net, since some of the effects are quite similar (reduced movement, strength check to move and concentration to cast spells). Here are some suggestions:
Strength check to move: Each effect asks for one check, but I think it is impractical. Since I'd be using both my hands, perhaps reduce it to a single check but gives me a bonus equal to half my Strength?
Concentration checks: One is already brutal, but two is absurd. We can use only the highest I believe.
With all that all of the way, there is also the simple option of me NOT taking it. Seems fiting, but oh boy, it is messy and crippling.
Sorry to be slow to dive in. Yesterday was my daughter's birthday, and we're dealing with someone rear-ending our car.
Hoping to make some progress on my sheet today, and looking forward to playing with yall!
I haven't had time to go through everyone's character sheet but will be doing so over the next day or two. There's nothing required mechanically in-game, so don't worry about having everything perfect.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Sir Longears: I appreciate the in-depth analysis you've done. I've used the Lancer sphere quite a bit, and while I like to think I have a solid grasp of it, there's definitely a bit of ambiguity RAW. Fortunately, it's not as overpowered as it seems at first glance. I'll do my best to clear things up. :-)
Spheres adds some new terminology - in this case, the relevant term is "attack action." This is a standard action, so using impalement is generally going to be your only attack that round. If you hit, you'll deal weapon damage and apply a -2 to the creature's CMD. In addition, the creature can't move from its current square, and spellcasting requires a concentration check. In addition, attacking the creature with the same weapon you're using to impale it ignores most AC - which makes sense considering the weapon's literally inside their body. While an impaled creature can't move, it can still attack with no penalty.
As a trade-off for these effects, you can't use an impaling weapon for anything else, have to keep hold of it, and moving from your own square requires an opposed STR check. In other words, your own mobility is severely limited (very important in Spheres), and it's difficult to attack other creatures unless you end the impalement or have other weapons.
You can end the impalement as a Free action by letting go of your weapon - the impaled creature can grab the weapon as a Standard action and then spend a Move action to automatically end the impale - suffering bleed damage. Alternately, you can spend a Move action to rip the weapon out of the impaled creature (dealing bleed damage) so you keep hold of it. An impaled creature can end the impalement by disarming you or spending a Standard action to tear itself free with a CMB check.
Overall, impalement is an excellent battlefield control ability that significantly reduces an opponent's mobility. It's particularly powerful if you take the talents that allow you to impale creatures with ranged attacks and/or pin creatures to objects. You'll need to make sure you have a high CMD, as otherwise you'll risk losing your weapon. Impalement is also less effective when you're attacked by multiple foes, as your mobility is hampered while you're impaling a creature. I usually see impalement as a two-round combo. First round: move to target (if necessary) and then impale. Second round: use a [impale] talent and then end the impalement to deal bleed damage.
The bleed damage is quite nice - especially when paired with the Duelist sphere. However, there are multiple ways to mitigate this. Both the Blood and Life spheres can end bleed effects, and the Duelist sphere can reduce bleed damage. In addition, the Berserker sphere provides temporary hp, and the Guardian sphere can stave off death. That's five different Spheres that have counters, and there's probably more that I'm forgetting. Spheres is a nice buff for martials, but it's balanced against itself. :-)
|
|
I haven't had time to go through everyone's character sheet but will be doing so over the next day or two. There's nothing required mechanically in-game, so don't worry about having everything perfect.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Sir Longears: I appreciate the in-depth analysis you've done. I've used the Lancer sphere quite a bit, and while I like to think I have a solid grasp of it, there's definitely a bit of ambiguity RAW. Fortunately, it's not as overpowered as it seems at first glance. I'll do my best to clear things up. :-)
** spoiler omitted **...
Since I'm pretty new to the system and have only "scratched the surface", I'll totally take your word on the matter. In any case, if you find it too strong on the future, I'm open to tone it down.
As I've mentioned, I'm going wide with a combination of many spheres instead of focusing in only one, the reasoning behind this because I was for Baldrek to be a wild fighter that will use basically anything and any tactic at his disposal to stay alive and win. I'm not sure how effective this will be lol.
Right now, I have the Gladiator and Lancer spheres and while I have a net, I did not go deep in its feats/talents because I feel I yet do not have the proper BAB to pull the two-weapon net/trident fighting style. Also went a bit heavier than anticipated on combat maneuvers.
I do plan to take the Dual Wielding sphere but also the Brute, Scoundrel and even others like Berserker and Barrage (since all my weapons will belong to the thrown weapon group).
The cool thing about it is that I feel that each combat will feel different.
I haven't had a lot of spare time for getting my character built yet. I'm hoping to finish up over the next couple of days. There are a few things I'm wondering about with skills and feats.
1. Rogue Skill Specialties grant a bonus to skills depending on which one is chosen. What is the amount of the bonus? No numbers are given.
2. I think I should have 2 feats. 1 for 1st level and 1 for human. We don't have backgrounds, but can we still select background feats?
3. "A rogue is considered a Proficient practitioner, gaining spheres and talents as appropriate," I get really lost here. I haven't been able to figure out what I can choose or how much among the spheres, talents, traditions, etc. Regardless of what I choose, what do I actually have from the choice at 1st level?
4. While the two clearest options for a Rogue seem to be fencer and duelist, at least those are the two the thief tradition is built around, both are a bit worrisome to depend on. There are plenty of things that feinting doesn't work on, so fencer semi-reliable. There are plenty of things that don't bleed (the seems to be the duelist trick), so duelist is semi-reliable. Having both helps but still doesn't provide complete coverage. Sneak Attack is very conditional as well. Are there any other martial routes you would suggest?
|
|
Questions
1) A quote from the ability: A rogue dedicates herself to refining specific sets of skills. A rogue gains one of the following skill specialties at 1st level, 4th level, and every 6 levels thereafter. Each skill specialty grants bonuses equal to 1/2 the rogue’s level (minimum +1) on certain checks. A rogue cannot gain a skill specialty more than once and bonuses from different skill specialties do not stack.
2) I believe the "Background Feats" are just weaker feats that you now get to choose at each even level. Pretty sure you can get one of those with your regular feat.
3) Take a look on the Rogue table. The last column is the amount of talents you get. The term "Proficient" just means this talent progression. As an example, the fighter is "Expert" and gets one talent per level. You use talents (or feats because there is the extra talent combat feat) to get access to spheres and their talents. You need to have the base sphere before selecting it's talents. You also get a Martial Tradition once, as it is described in the rogue's proficiency with weapons and armor, and each tradition basically gives you four preselected talents and/or spheres.
@Sir Longears: Fighter is one of the only classes that can invest in a bunch of combat spheres without spreading itself too thin. It should be quite fun - especially as you gain experience with the Spheres system. :-)
@Arberie: Sir Longears has the right of it. If you haven't already, I'd suggest reading the "How to Build a Practitioner" link on the sidebar of the Spheres Wiki. It's a nice write-up and also explains all of the new terminology. Regarding your question about specific spheres, I'll mention that both Fencing and Duelist have talents to mitigate the weaknesses you mentioned - Unlikely Feint and Ooze Ichor, respectively. The other rogue-ish spheres are Athletics (mobility), Alchemy (alchemical items and poisons), Dual-Wielding (two-weapon fighting), Scoundrel (dirty trick and steal maneuvers), and Scout (identifying weaknesses), but really any of the others can work as well depending on your fighting style.
|
|
@Arberie: I believe Baldrek will be able to provide you with many opportunities for your sneak attack. He will always try to set up flanks because I took Dirty Fighting (+4 to my maneuvers when flanking) and plan on being good at dirty tricks as well, which includes blinding.
With lots of trips and disarms, there should be many AOOs as well.
Thank you SL and YBD! That's immensely helpful. I have some traction now.
I misremembered the Thief tradition, it's actually Fencer and Scoundrel rather than Duelist. That's a better combo actually I think since Dirty Trick from Scoundrel tends to be more broadly applicable.
Do I understand correctly that if I took the Thief tradition:
Thief
Thieves avoid fair fights whenever possible. Their favorite tactic is to take their opponents unaware, but barring that, a dirty trick or a well-placed feint will let them end the fight quickly.
Bonus Talents:
Equipment: Rogue Weapon Training
Scoundrel sphere
Fencing sphere
Variable: Thieves gain either an Equipment talent of their choice, or a talent from the Scoundrel or Fencing spheres.
I would need to take the Finesse Fighting Equipment Talent to get Dex to attacks? Or does using finesse weapons like dagger or rapier use Dex for attack already? Also, getting the equipment talent from this would be a one-time deal, and further equipment talents would require taking the equipment sphere, which would include a talent since equipment has no base ability?
Of the other spheres you mention YBD, Athletics looks really good, but how tied to the athletics skill would it be? Arberie isn't investing in strength so would that be a problem?
The other strong contender would be Scout, which seems like a good one for general party support. Probably lots of creepies to identify in this AP. If I did pick up the Scout Sphere, is the Practitioner Combat trait Scout's Eyes available to take? Also, is there any mechanism that switches feinting to INT rather than CHA? It seems Scout demands DEX/INT, which works against Feinting well, and therefore Fencer.
I haven't had a chance to look at Alchemy yet, but maybe that could be better than trying to pick up casting. However, unless poisons are way better than in standard pathfinder, I'd rather not mess with them.
|
|
I believe I've read somewhere that whenever you'd receive a feat from wherever and that feat is associated with a talent, you get the talent instead.
In the GM's opening post in the general recruitment, he mentioned the Elephant in the Room rules were in place, so you'd get Weapon Finesse for free and thus should receive the Finesse Fighting Equipment talent for free instead.
You then could pick it again to get Dex to damage.
Ah, okay. If that's the case, I'd probably use the Equipment Talent for something else. Rogues get Dex to damage at 3rd level from the class ability Finesse Training.
The Mighty Conditioning talent lets you add both your STR and DEX modifiers to checks using any Athletics package you've selected. That should eliminate that particular concern. :-)
Due to "Elephant in the Room" rules, Power Attack, Deadly Aim, Combat Expertise, and Weapon Finesse are no longer feats. Instead, everyone automatically qualifies for them. Therefore, the Finesse Fighting talent isn't needed unless you want the damage boost.
Yes, since the Equipment Sphere has no base ability, it's always considered "unlocked" when you're selecting talents.
Scout's Eyes is allowed.
For INT-to-feint attempts, I'm not aware of anything off the top of my head, but it might be easier to take the Slayer's Feint feat.
Alchemy's big benefit is letting you create alchemical items for free. They can't be sold, and you can only have a certain number at once, but more can be created whenever you have the time. Poisons made with this sphere have a large number of potential effects, and since they're free to create, the major drawback of poison builds is eliminated.
Sir Longears's comment about "associated feats" is close, but incomplete. Talents count as associated feats when meeting prerequisites. For example, if you have the Barrage and Sniper spheres, you can spend a feat on Manyshot once you have BAB +6 and the necessary DEX score. In addition, if you would gain a feat from somewhere, you can instead gain the talent it's associated with. I don't think that will ever come up in my games since I've reworked so extensively, but it's good to know for a "vanilla PF + spheres" game as it'll affect Monk and Ranger bonus feats and whatnot.
In other news, character audits have started. :-)
EDIT: @Sir Longears: Looks like we posted at exactly the same time. :-) Could you clarify what you're asking about?
|
|
In other news, character audits have started. :-)
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
EDIT: @Sir Longears: Looks like we posted at exactly the same time. :-) Could you clarify what you're asking about?
On the first page of your house rules there is that table that informs about the feats, background, background feats and such. On the last column there is a "bonus +2 Good saves". Thought we got those as well
@Sir Longears: I figured that was it. If you check the Fighter class table, you'll see starting Fortitude is +1/2, due to my use of fractional BAB and saves. The +2 from the table on the homepage is there to bring saving throws back to where they should be at Level One. ;-)
Almost all of those are fine, but if it's from the Jester's Handbook or Catgirl's Handbook, check with me first. Those particular sourcebooks were released on April Fool's Day, and while everything's fine from a mechanical standpoint, they aren't necessarily appropriate for a serious campaign. There's a talent based on turning into a cheese monster, for example. The talent you mentioned is acceptable, though. :-)
Thanks for the audit YBD, fixed it!
And then work got really busy for the rest of the day...
So I can see a couple of pathways that could be good. One would be going with the Thief tradition, focusing on CHA and DEX, then adding athletics for the mobility. Maybe adding a bit of casting, like the Force Sphere to get a blast at least, later on.
On the other hand, if Baldrek is going to be dirty tricking a lot, maybe the Thief Tradition adds too much of that tactic. There are a couple of other traditions that could make for interesting, but less traditional builds.
Expedition Spotter goes more in the direction of a non-magical Archaeologist Bard and doesn't overlap with Baldrek any. DEX and INT of course.
Equipment: Rogue Weapon Training
Trap sphere (Dismantler drawback)
Variable: Expedition spotters gain either the Duelist or Fencing sphere.
Variable: Expedition spotters gain either the Scout sphere or Expert Eye from the Trap sphere.
Guild Training is the most ready right out of the box. I think it would have DEX to damage from 1st level. Might pair well with the Assassin archetype. Also DEX and INT. This would make Rogue's Finesse Training at 3rd level obsolete though.
Equipment: Finesse Fighting, Rogue Weapon Training
Alchemy sphere (poison) package
Variable: Individuals trained in the Guild Training tradition gain either the Fencing sphere or the Duelist sphere.
These two would most likely more or less converge after some levels though. It's a matter of whether I'd rather start with Scout or Alchemy, probably adding the one initially left out later.
What about creating a new tradition? That mixes and matches from these? I could name it something like "Loser Sneak Thief Drifter Who Dabbles in Cheating at Cards and Dice if She Thinks She Can".
Creating a custom tradition is always an option. There are a few requirements in terms of talent selection, but it's pretty simple. Honestly, the majority of my martial characters end up with a custom tradition. If you're wanting to go that route, I'm happy to help.
Alright, I've had some time to really look at things and I'm going to stick with the Thief Tradition. Between the Fencer and Scoundrel spheres Arberie will have feinting to help with sneak attack, dirty trick, and steal as options. It's a bit humanoid-centric but things like Unlikely Feint can help.
I can also pick up some things that can make crit fishing viable I think. Getting the Equipment Sphere later would give me access to Critical Genius, Dagger Bravo, and Dagger Dancer would allow Arberie to make melee and/or ranged attacks on the fly with an expanded crit range of 17-20 I believe. It's making daggers really tempting.
The Athletics Sphere looks like a ton of fun. But, if I dipped into it later there would only be a a small number of Talents I'd grab. Run is the obvious base package to take.
I'm dropping the idea of taking the Alchemy or Scout spheres. I think there are enough Rogue abilities to replicate what Scout does in terms of identifying monsters well enough. Stealth is just really hard to use in combat and it's a constant arms race against scent, blindsense, etc. to keep it viable. Too expensive. Using Athletics for a "you can see me, but you can't catch me" skirmisher seems better.
Alchemy looks really cool, but I think it's a Sphere better focused on than dipped into.
So I'm ready to finish up my build now. Hopefully I can be done today.
Ah! Okay. I wasn't holding an ability boost in reserve, so I guess I miscounted. I'll put it on Dex.
A question about the Equipment Talent I get with the Thief Tradition. Is it retrainable? It makes a lot of sense to take Weapon Finesse again so that I get Dex to damage with EitR in use. But, if I did that it becomes obsolete at 3rd level when Arberie gets Rogue Finesse Training.
If I can retrain, I could switch to a different Equipment Talent at 3rd. If not, I'll take a different Equipement Talent at 1st. Either way is fine. I can live without Dex to damage for 2 levels (well, I think I can...).
Ah, I wasn't reading closely enough. I see what you mean. Doesn't matter anyway if it's not retrainable. I'll take something else and just wait for 3rd level.
OK, my sheet is finally ready for review too.
|
|
Question for you, GM.
The various Spheres that work with Unarmed Strike mention that you get improved damage based on the number of talents and that you get the benefits of the Improved Unarmed Strike feat.
However, since we are using EitR rules, the IUS feat doesn't exist anymore since it was upgraded to Unarmed Combatant, which gives also bonus to grapple.
So, should I take these Spheres, would I gain the benefit of the upgraded Unarmed Combatant feat?
Thanks! Yeah, I kinda went wild with the tradition. So many ways to capture flavor, and that'll hopefully be mechanically interesting too.
She'll start the day with a CL of 0 (so unable to cast spells) unless I manage to feed enough the day before...but I can also drain blood on a grapple, so hopefully that gives me a way to feed and kick off some transformation, when I need to.
For CMD, thanks! I thought that Unarmored Training affected it...but I see it's an armor bonus (unlike things like a Monk's or Striker's AC bonus) which I think *doesn't* boost CMD. Alas!
And yeah, I know when I'm transformed I'll lose that benefit, but it gives me some AC when I'm not transformed...and it leaves the door open at L8 for unarmored mastery.
Oh, and I find it's easier for me to track consumable resources in a tracker like the one below, in my posts. It gives an audit trail of what changed when, and it means I don't have to edit my profile after editing my posts. Does that work for you? If not, I'll switch to the header.
HP 8/8
HD 1/1
SP 5/5
- - - EDIT - - -
Oh, I saw Longears' Q. I'd totally missed Unarmed Combatant. I was going to take a drawback that traded unarmed strike for the hammerlock talent...but I think I shouldn't if the bonus IUS can become Unarmed Combatant.