Guerrilla Rogue - Cover of Night Question


Rules Questions


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Hey Folks, I was helping a friend make a character earlier today when I came across this particular archetype and ability. It gave me some serious pause, for reasons I'll explain as I go. First things first:

Guerrilla Rogue

Cover of Night:
Cover of Night (Ex): At 2nd level, a guerrilla learns to use darkness to her advantage. She gains a +5 bonus on Disguise, Sleight of Hand, and Stealth checks while she is in areas of dim light or darkness, and can create mundane disguises in dim light or darkness with a full-round action (instead of the normal 1d3 × 10 minutes). Additionally, while in dim light or darkness, if a guerrilla would have concealment, she instead has total concealment.

Now, with that taken care of, the sentence I have questions about is that final sentence under the Cover of Night ability. Gaining Total Concealment is HUGE according to the rules and I wanted someone else to help me interpret the ramifications. I'd also like to note that this ability is not phrased like some of the other Rogue abilities that increase your miss chance from concealment to 50% but don't actually grant Total Concealment. It just says that in Dim Light you have total concealment.

Here is what I think this sentence means:

Total Concealment means that opponents can't target you with attacks, you do not have line of Sight to your target only line of effect, and can only target the square in which you believe they reside. You are also, as your opponent cannot see you, invisible denying them their Dex to AC and gaining +2 to hit (though I understand that this last bit is arguable under the rules). As you have total concealment from dim lighting this concealment does not go away when you successfully land an attack (as you are not gaining this concealment from the Stealth Skill or the spell Invisibility); but, instead are gaining concealment from your environment. So, unless the light level increases you will maintain Total Concealment despite any actions you take. An opponent successfully making a perception check can detect which square you are in, but cannot negate the benefits of concealment. They still lose their Dex to AC against your attacks as they still cannot see you, and you can freely sneak attack them. Ergo, opponents without Dark Vision that fight you in Dim Light or Darkness are absolutely screwed unless they can change the light level.

Please help me understand if this is not correct.


Oh my ...

and Dotting for later reading. But start with "if a guerrilla would have concealment" first and go from there. And yes its huge but so is having Evasion which is what has been replaced with this ability.


I'd like to note that a bunch of other abilities in pathfinder increase the concealment miss chance from 20% to 50% without granting total concealment to avoid the mess of conclusions I came to in my opening post.

This one, very clearly, provides the Guerrilla with Total Concealment.


From the section, "Combat, Concealment, Ignoring Concealment: Concealment isn't always effective. An area of dim lighting or darkness doesn't provide any concealment against an opponent with darkvision."
There is no concealment partial or otherwise vs an opponent with Darkvision owing to light levels. But that's my current thinking and I know I'm not totally up to date with the mess that is Stealth or if that is even important to the question. As you can be concealed but not using or being stealthy. So No I do not believe it would be correct to give a Guerrilla total concealment vs a foe with darkvision.


Oh, absolutely not. That was never in question. What's in question, is just how much benefit does total concealment apply to folks who lack the extra-sensory bonuses. Total concealment is one of the best buffs around, and why Greater Invisibility is set at just the right spell level that you get about 2 levels use of it before everyone and their mother in the bestiary gains True Sight/Blind-sense/Tremorsense.


ShroudedInLight wrote:
Total Concealment means that opponents can't target you with attacks, you do not have line of Sight to your target only line of effect, and can only target the square in which you believe they reside. You are also, as your opponent cannot see you, invisible denying them their Dex to AC and gaining +2 to hit (though I understand that this last bit is arguable under the rules). (1) As you have total concealment from dim lighting this concealment does not go away when you successfully land an attack (as you are not gaining this concealment from the Stealth Skill or the spell Invisibility); but, instead are gaining concealment from your environment. So, unless the light level increases you will maintain Total Concealment despite any actions you take. An opponent successfully making a perception check can detect which square you are in, but cannot negate the benefits of concealment. They still lose their Dex to AC against your attacks as they still cannot see you, and you can freely sneak attack them. Ergo, opponents without Dark Vision that fight you in Dim Light or Darkness are absolutely screwed unless they can change the light level. (2)

1.

While I'd argue for the +2 to attack that is unfortunately not RAW. They are denied their Dex to AC since they can't see you, though.

Blindsense wrote:
A creature with blindsense is still denied its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class against attacks from creatures it cannot see.

2.

Darkvision is pretty common, so if you rely on the concealment from light conditions you're not gonna get much mileage out of this ability.

My previous Guerrilla relied primarily on the Palelight Torch (250 gp) to secure Dim Light, and it worked pretty well even in the middle of the day as long as I kept to the shade. Since it's dirt cheap you can get it at 2nd level, too. I also had the Undine race trait Whiteout which in combination with Cover of Night gave me total concealment whenever it rained or when I managed to fill the air with water.

At early levels a Smokestick was pretty handy to gain concealment, but at mid-levels a Wand of Blur and the Spell Storing Rogue Talent basically gave me Greater Invisibility with a minutes/level duration. While explicitly stated trumping the See Invisibility spell.

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