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That's it. I just don't think that any weapon should cost nothing. There are currently three - club, quarterstaff, and sling. I get that any stick can serve as a club, but that's ought to be an improvised weapon. A real, melee-grade club should be more finished, more balanced, etc., almost like a baseball bat. Same with a quarterstaff. A good quarterstaff ain't just any ol' sapling. Sure you can use a big stick but that should invoke the improvised weapon penalty or require a quick Craft check. Finally, sure you can make a sling for nothin', but it requires time and materials (and a Craft check). Or you can just buy one. In my opinion, they should all just cost 1 gp. Cheap, but not nothing.
Director of Brand Strategy
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In the big scheme of things, the difference of a few gp for a weapon is negligible in terms of character wealth. At first level, sure it matters a bit more than later, but after a PC's first encounter, they should have enough gold to buy any mundane weapon they want. But at character creation, sometimes you have to penny pinch, and the easiest way to do that is use a quarterstaff until you can afford a more expensive weapon that deals more damage or has a better crit range.
Still, it might be wise to make those weapons cost something. Say 5cp for a club or sling, 1sp for the quarterstaff.
But yeah, even once you're buying masterwork, the cost of the base weapon is negligible.
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Still, it might be wise to make those weapons cost something. Say 5cp for a club or sling, 1sp for the quarterstaff.
But yeah, even once you're buying masterwork, the cost of the base weapon is negligible.
Ross but whatif you take your walking stick from the neraby forest, or make your sling from some leather scrap or just break a table and get your club?
does this cost you?
initial wealth is only a mechanical thing... most of it the character already had and what part of his trianing or his old job...
or for example a fighter and his longsword "this sword is Farenhuten, my father gave it to me when i mmet my 16 summer, as his father did with him long time ago"
of course that is also more fun to play than "yeah i had 85 gps and i onlyc ould afford this lousy longsword"
I think it is important that some weapons me free, so that there's always something a character can get when they are disarmed, such as in prison. You can break out and make a staff out of a table leg or something.
Also, so that a character such as a monk could roleplay a aesthetic that has no possessions.
The problem is we already have rules for picking up a stick or random thing. They are improvised weapons, there are even feats related to it.
Grabbing that walking stick or random log are improvised weapons, the ones listed on the weapons table should be considered minimally crafted and have a cost to them.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I had a character in a campaign who spent all his starting money on a really fancy spellbook for roleplaying reasons. He did not have a weapon when we started the game. The party was exploring a ruined house, when he suddenly asks me "there's a table? okay, I take the leg." I puzzled over the statement and then said, "Uh, ok, you have a table leg." His response: "Sweet. I'm going to use it as a club."
Good times.
I don't have a particularly strong feeling about 0 gps weapons, but I also wouldn't be adverse to requiring a Craft/Survival/Etc. check to obtain one (and without such a check, the weapon is at a -2 penalty). Honestly though, given that hardly anyone uses the 0 gp weapons, I can't really get that excited about modifying the rules just for the sake of not having a free lunch. Plus, the cost really only matters at 1st level - after that point, buying a simple weapon is just not a relevant portion of the character's wealth.
Of course, I'm the type of DM that doesn't require my players to track every red cent they spend. If they go into a tavern and buy a few drinks, I just hand wave it away. I do the same for ammo. Conversely, I don't award them any gp value for the random weapons and armor that get generated from most combats with humanoids - I find that level of bookkeeping to be tedious beyond belief. Your mileage may vary.
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The mentioned three should be available for zero money.In addition to the above mentioned reasons... I have one or two player, who every once in a while like to play impoverished characters (if not to say bums or beggars) without any money. Depriving these lone souls of quality no cost weapons is plain nasty, if not evil...
By keeping it as it is, no harm is done, and options for real role playing are not made impossible. Otherwise these kind of characters would have to opt for an improvised weapon and pay the price, either in feats or in reduced to hit and/or damage.
I like the idea that any minimally intelligent bozo, given the right tools, can make his own club. YMMV.
Of course, I'm the type of DM that doesn't require my players to track every red cent they spend. If they go into a tavern and buy a few drinks, I just hand wave it away. I do the same for ammo. Conversely, I don't award them any gp value for the random weapons and armor that get generated from most combats with humanoids - I find that level of bookkeeping to be tedious beyond belief. Your mileage may vary.
Same here.
I played some Savage Worlds / Sundered Skies recently (it was 'okay'), but one thing made me smile.
You can buy a bag of sling stones for a few coins, or you can look on the ground for a few minutes. Your choice.
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How many caps for a plasma rifle?Depends on the condition.
Personally I prefer my Chinese Assault Rifle. Or since we are talking about Melee weapons specifically, the Shishkabob. I am itching to make a Deathclaw Glove though and see how that goes...
The Chinese SKS knockoff or the Chinese AK-47 knockoff?
The SKS was pure garbage. Jammed so much I thought it was toast spread...
The Chinese AK was only marginally better, IMO.
Give me that CCCP label any day...
1d6 with a crit of 20 (the stats of a 0gp club) is by no means a world breaker, players shouldn't be penalized for liking characters of improverished background.
How many caps for a plasma rifle?Depends on the condition.
Personally I prefer my Chinese Assault Rifle. Or since we are talking about Melee weapons specifically, the Shishkabob. I am itching to make a Deathclaw Glove though and see how that goes...
The unique version of both the Chinese Assault Rifle and the Plasma Rifle were my mainstays for much of the game. Though until the Conclave arrive in force, it can be hard to get replacements for the latter.
Why yes, this was a threadjack. But it started w/ Erik, so it's got to be ok ;-)
In my opinion, they should all just cost 1 gp. Cheap, but not nothing.
A quarterstaff should cost as much as five ten-foot poles?
A price of more than 1 sp (that's the wage for a whole day's labor, remember) is excessive for any of the three. A full gold piece is downright extortionate.
Not only does a sling not cost anything, it doesn't weight anything either. That's why all my characters carry infinite slings.
Convenant Plasma Rifles beat any other any day. if you only you could just put another battery on it instead of just having to throw it away, or just make those dammed Elites stope running...
Not only does a sling not cost anything, it doesn't weight anything either. That's why all my characters carry infinite slings.
Isn't there a rule that says 50 'light' items like coins and potion vials and anything else with a - weight are a pound?
Ross but whatif you take your walking stick from the neraby forest, or make your sling from some leather scrap or just break a table and get your club?does this cost you?
Use the craft rules: It's a DC 12 Craft check to make a club or quarterstaff. The raw materials may be effectively free, but there is a difference between a club and a branch.
Not only does a sling not cost anything, it doesn't weight anything either. That's why all my characters carry infinite slings.
This made me chuckle. Infinite Oregano!
When I seriously thought about it though, would infinite slings actually give your character an advantage? I think its OK that they cost 0 gp.
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I think it is important that some weapons me free, so that there's always something a character can get when they are disarmed, such as in prison.
Price doesn't have anything to do with what weapons you can find. If I had a pocket full of gold, I wouldn't be able to "find" a longsword in prision.
You can break out and make a staff out of a table leg or something.
This strikes me as the perfect definition of an improvised weapon, and it's why feats like Caught Off Guard and Throw Anything matter.
I originally said 1 gp. That is clearly too high, but it ought to cost something, even 1 sp. Somebody had to make it and they are going to want some compensation for their efforts, and if you want to make your own, cool, Craft away.
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Use the craft rules: It's a DC 12 Craft check to make a club or quarterstaff. The raw materials may be effectively free, but there is a difference between a club and a branch.
Ross but whatif you take your walking stick from the neraby forest, or make your sling from some leather scrap or just break a table and get your club?does this cost you?
branch, ok... still with proof an error even a wizard can get his quarterstaff, just takes him a while, and for a quarterstaff even a broom's stick will serve :P
and the contributor with the infinite sling... the DM should hit him with common sense (i know he is jocking) or just make on him an enlarge spell to see him drowning in infinite slings :P
powerplayers, munchkings and abusive players should be punished with the full letter of the DM common sense :P (and they ask me why some DMs are Evil DMs)
branch, ok... still with proof an error even a wizard can get his quarterstaff, just takes him a while, and for a quarterstaff even a broom's stick will serve :P
Sure. I have no problem with PCs being able to make clubs and quarterstaves for nearly free, but at least with a Craft check and a non-zero price it takes some time. And the folks with no craft bonus could conceivably need a do-over.
What a rediculous statement.
Based on your concept...meet me in the woods. Tonight. Alone.
We'll see who comes out :)
What a rediculous statement.
Based on your concept...meet me in the woods. Tonight. Alone.
We'll see who comes out :)
Who exactly are you responding to and why is is ridiculous?
Who exactly are you responding to and why is is ridiculous?
No, and I think it is obvious 8-P
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Who exactly are you responding to and why is is ridiculous?What a rediculous statement.
Based on your concept...meet me in the woods. Tonight. Alone.
We'll see who comes out :)
interesting question indeed
Ross, as you ask players to roll for their craft,are you going to RP how they buy all their equipment? from breaches to armor, to holy item and sword? or are they supposed to already have it with them?
:D
and in the forest a human beign would have troubles survving nature even with an stick or a plasma rifle... well theer are no more forest after the fallout
What a rediculous statement.
Based on your concept...meet me in the woods. Tonight. Alone.
We'll see who comes out :)
Be as provocative and opinionated as you like but please show your fellow posters respect. That's how we try and do it on these boards. Your aggressive post can only make an enemy out of someone who isn't really your enemy, and the only thing ridiculous about Ross Byers is his right pinky finger. It has a fingernail that splits into what are universally considered to resemble devil horns. Really unsettling, that.
Be as provocative and opinionated as you like but please show your fellow posters respect. That's how we try and do it on these boards. Your aggressive post can only make an enemy out of someone who isn't really your enemy, and the only thing ridiculous about Ross Byers is his right pinky finger. It has a fingernail that splits into what are universally considered to resemble devil horns. Really unsettling, that.What a rediculous statement.
Based on your concept...meet me in the woods. Tonight. Alone.
We'll see who comes out :)
E tu, The Jade?
I posted my response in this thread, without quoting anyone. That means, it is meant in regards to the original message in the post.
Second of all, with regards to netiquette...dear lords...please stuff it ? :)
Your aggressive post can only ....
Aggressive post? This, my friend, is *your* take on what I was trying to say. I was simply saying that with regards to the OP's thoughts on "no weapon being for 0g" was silly. Go into the woods. You'll find PLENTY of things to make a weapon out of.
Sheesh. Here, have a ladder.
Be as provocative and opinionated as you like but please show your fellow posters respect. That's how we try and do it on these boards. Your aggressive post can only make an enemy out of someone who isn't really your enemy, and the only thing ridiculous about Ross Byers is his right pinky finger. It has a fingernail that splits into what are universally considered to resemble devil horns. Really unsettling, that.
Did you HONESTLY think I was somehow attempting to suggest that someone meet me somewhere, in a wooded area ?
A wooded area that I made no effort to detail as to where it might be?
Wow...
Be as provocative and opinionated as you like but please show your fellow posters respect. That's how we try and do it on these boards. Your aggressive post can only make an enemy out of someone who isn't really your enemy, and the only thing ridiculous about Ross Byers is his right pinky finger. It has a fingernail that splits into what are universally considered to resemble devil horns. Really unsettling, that.Did you HONESTLY think I was somehow attempting to suggest that someone meet me somewhere, in a wooded area ?
A wooded area that I made no effort to detail as to where it might be?
Wow...
No. I didn't. Is that what you thought I thought? I truly understand the written word, and written communication.
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Director of Brand Strategy
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Um, Mr. flynnster...you do realize you've just posted three responses to the same post in a matter of minutes, right? Seems to me you're talking to yourself. But by all means, go ahead and keep justifying to yourself how your tone couldn't possibly be misconstrued as antagonistic and we'll see if you can convince yourself by post ten or so.
Um, Mr. flynnster...you do realize you've just posted three responses to the same post in a matter of minutes, right? Seems to me you're talking to yourself. But by all means, go ahead and keep justifying to yourself how your tone couldn't possibly be misconstrued as antagonistic and we'll see if you can convince yourself by post ten or so.
You've never had rapid fire responses over a matter of moments?
No. I didn't. Is that what you thought I thought? I truly understand the written word, and written communication.
Well, I previously thought you'd have "gotten it", rather than just skimming.
It appears I was wrong.
go ahead and keep justifying to yourself how your tone couldn't possibly be misconstrued as antagonistic and we'll see if you can convince yourself by post ten or so.
Justifying? No. My original intent was conveyed in the wording I chose.
Perhaps you might wish to retake some of the elementary level reading comprehension exams and self-paced learning books?
Be as provocative and opinionated as you like but please show your fellow posters respect. That's how we try and do it on these boards. Your aggressive post can only make an enemy out of someone who isn't really your enemy, and the only thing ridiculous about Ross Byers is his right pinky finger. It has a fingernail that splits into what are universally considered to resemble devil horns. Really unsettling, that.What a rediculous statement.
Based on your concept...meet me in the woods. Tonight. Alone.
We'll see who comes out :)
E tu, The Jade?
I posted my response in this thread, without quoting anyone. That means, it is meant in regards to the original message in the post.
Second of all, with regards to netiquette...dear lords...please stuff it ? :)
Hey, listen. You were asked a question by someone wondering if you were perhaps slamming them. You were asked to assign a victim for your nasty statement. Any misunderstanding after you refused is on you. It's not up to us to be psychic and 'get it'.
And it doesn't matter who you were talking to. Nasty is nasty. Paizo has its own brand of netiquette and you'll follow it or we'll see if that post flag option is really worth a damn.
Also, you tell me to stuff it when I ask you to show fellow posters respect? You're obviously young, and maybe I shouldn't engage you, but somebody has to teach you to NEVER use an unfunny ladder reference twice. It's just unambitious.
Hey, listen. You were asked a question by someone wondering if you were perhaps slamming them. You were asked to assign a victim for your nasty statement. Any misunderstanding after you refused is on you. It's not up to us to be psychic and 'get it'.
And it doesn't matter who you were talking to. Nasty is nasty. Paizo has its own brand of netiquette and you'll follow it or we'll see if that post flag option is really worth a damn.
Also, you tell me to stuff it when I ask you to show fellow posters respect? You're obviously young, and maybe I shouldn't engage you, but somebody has to teach you to NEVER use an unfunny ladder reference twice. It's just unambitious.
Wow, buckaroo. Calm down. I don't know you, you don't know me. Don't take anything so seriously.
For the benefit of The Jade, yoda8myhead, and the others here...
That's it. I just don't think that any weapon should cost nothing. There are currently three - club, quarterstaff, and sling. I get that any stick can serve as a club, but that's ought to be an improvised weapon. A real, melee-grade club should be more finished, more balanced, etc., almost like a baseball bat. Same with a quarterstaff. A good quarterstaff ain't just any ol' sapling. Sure you can use a big stick but that should invoke the improvised weapon penalty or require a quick Craft check. Finally, sure you can make a sling for nothin', but it requires time and materials (and a Craft check). Or you can just buy one. In my opinion, they should all just cost 1 gp. Cheap, but not nothing.
Dear Mosaic...
I strongly (but with much respect) disagree with your idea.
If you go out into any forest, I guarantee you that you can improvise (albeit for short term use) weapon quality devices with which you are fully capable of defending yourself.
Based off of your thoughts...if you and I were to go into the woods together (this is merely an effort to explain my opinion, not an invitation to violence nor a plan to commit bodily harm), if your ideas were correct, you would not be able to defend yourself against me. In my reality, however, I *could* readily defend myself against you.
Please think yourself warm and fuzzy thoughts...
Love and rainbows,
Onk'l Flynnster
Wow, buckaroo. Calm down. I don't know you, you don't know me. Don't take anything so seriously.Hey, listen. You were asked a question by someone wondering if you were perhaps slamming them. You were asked to assign a victim for your nasty statement. Any misunderstanding after you refused is on you. It's not up to us to be psychic and 'get it'.
And it doesn't matter who you were talking to. Nasty is nasty. Paizo has its own brand of netiquette and you'll follow it or we'll see if that post flag option is really worth a damn.
Also, you tell me to stuff it when I ask you to show fellow posters respect? You're obviously young, and maybe I shouldn't engage you, but somebody has to teach you to NEVER use an unfunny ladder reference twice. It's just unambitious.
yoda8myhead wrote:
go ahead and keep justifying to yourself how your tone couldn't possibly be misconstrued as antagonistic and we'll see if you can convince yourself by post ten or so.Flynnster wrote:
Justifying? No. My original intent was conveyed in the wording I chose.
Perhaps you might wish to retake some of the elementary level reading comprehension exams and self-paced learning books?
I wrote:
I hear you about letting stuff roll off your back, but how is yoda8myhead supposed to avoid taking an insult that demeans his intelligence seriously? He didn't call you names or character assassinate. He suggested you were out of order.
You want to spar with logic? There's lots of people here who duel all the time. Have at. Good luck and hope you win. But things heat up quickly when people aren't face to face. It's hard to say certain things without pissing people off and so we add in winking emoticons or say JK and the like. Seriously, we try to be a step above other forums with regards to showing each other due respect. For the most part, it works too. We do our best to talk to each other in a way that, even if we think we're right and the other party is wrong, offers no personal insult.
As for the your last post: that's (one snark shy of) a fine way to post in a way that others might actually know what you mean. You're a person who clearly has a lot to say, so I'd imagine that expressing yourself with great clarity in order to attract appropriate responses from others is something that would be important to you. Learn to not get kicked out of the sandbox and you can say almost anything.
If we're done here, and I mean done with that fuzzy thoughts/rainbow passive aggressive nonsense as well, then please let's just go back to square one. I do sincerely appreciate your effort to meet us halfway and I'm sorry if I vibed you out.