Hi GM Sorry for the insistance , But Even with Imp. uncanny dodge would Saya have gotten the Sneak dmg? assuming that was the extra dice?
Just for clarification
Cheers
No you are correct, I missed that. Saya would only 3 points of damage from that attack.
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Oh of course!!! ;-)
Supervillan, you and I have played so often together and I really like your characters!!
I think Quenly is my favorite!
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Seems like one of the biggest problems with this challenge (the opera) is that three of the outfits come with heavy armour, and none of us is proficient in heavy armour. One of us is stuck wearing it, if the rest take the 5 options with no armour, and has to suck up a -7 penalty to attack rolls and skill checks, and can't cast spells either.
As far as Tooth's choice goes, most if not all of the spells he'd want to cast can be cast before the curtain goes up. The Noble Warrior appeals to Tooth's vanity, but sticks him with that -7 heavy armour penalty. Cruel Bandit would be better, as he could use Sense Vitals to add 3d6 sneak attack. Almaas, I think Cruel Bandit is stuck using the knife. We're all restricted to the armour and weapon that comes with the outfit we get.
Tooth's cunning plan to employ Murderous Command spells looks like a non-starter, since the tournament official said that she'd decide who is "responsible" for bloodshed.
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Tentative suggestions for outfits:
general (armour + weapon) -
monkey king (spells) -Meylara
warrior woman (armour + weapon) - Saya
wizened crone (spells) - Undy
noble warrior (armour + weapon) -
cruel bandit (sneak attack knife) - Tooth
clowns (improvised wpn + spells) - Almaas and Kat
I'm suggesting Saya take the warrior woman role because she's used to fighting with a polearm (proficient) and although she'll take the Armour proficiency penalty, she'll still be able to use Aid Another and her awesome performances, and she'll be able to cast Good Hope and Haste right before we start.
Taking unarmoured roles lets our two monks keep their good AC, and Almaas can use Divine Favour and Bane to do decent unarmed nonlethal damage.
I'm sure I've missed things that everyone can do though, so please just take this as a starting point :)
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Works for me too.
How do people feel about the Stoneskin option? Better to save it for later? Or use it now? Or just too expensive and prefer not to use it?
Incidentally, as long as Riddy can participate in the performance I should have good options not only for non-lethal dmg but for debuffs as well. (Which could be an argument for saving Stoneskin for some other more dangerous fight).
I've been going over the section again to answer some of the questions and I think I gave the one piece of information that is wrong. One change that will need to be made is that the party will be allowed none of their gear for this challenge. No rings, cloaks, headband, belts, or any other gear. You will have access to no additional gear on stage, neither mundane nor magical.
For example, if you playing the role of "Monkey King" you will only have a "monkey mask".
There will be an exception for basic spell components and items like holy symbols.
I know there is at least one issue with this, but let me know if there are other questions.
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Undy: Riddy can participate in the performance.
Saya: Your performance, along with Katrina, is not a spell for the purpose of these roles. You can use bardic performance in any role.
Almaas: There are no weapons aside those listed so no bows. You could use a bow if it was magically summoned by a spellcaster during the performance.
Tooth: Animal Companions. Yes, but I believe it would be a push action to command your animal companions to deal non-lethal (unless your companions know the subdue trick). To my knowledge that would be a DC 25 Handle Animal as a move action for both Petal and Claw. If you have some other ability to allow that, then that very well could work.
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Clown is definitely the better outfit for both Saya and Kat, but one of us still has to take a heavy armour outfit.
If it's Saya or Kat, they can still use Performance but they won't be able to hit very well and won't be able to cast spells.
If it's Almaas, he'll be at roughly +1 to hit before Divine Favour and Bane. Taking any unarmoured option Almaas will have an AC of 23 (mage armour) and attack at +7 (before buffs) with nonlethal unarmed strikes. He should get to +13 for 3d6+2 damage using Divine Favour and Bane.
Meylara's druid vows prevent her from taking an armour outfit (assuming it's got any metal in it, splint mail would have).
Undy is a wizard, so he has to avoid the armour options altogether.
Tooth in armour will attack at +5 (using vermin focus). If he takes the Cruel Bandit, he can attack at +12 and add 3d6 sneak attack via Sense Vitals.
So I think that, although Almaas has volunteered to wear the heavy armour, Saya can contribute the most if she wears it. She'll still have Performance and around a 50% chance to Aid Another for AC or to hit each round, and can pre-cast some spells. Kat, in comparison, would have Inspire Courage and an attack at +0 for 1d8 dmg (assuming sword proficiency). In an unarmoured role Kat can cast cure spells, though she'll still be bad at attacking.
But as I said, I am sure I have missed some abilities that you all have.
This is a harsh set up, depriving many characters of their abilities. At least none of us appear to be wholly dependent on our gear.
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I'm assuming that since it is the following day, we are rested.
No armor please - other than that, Meylara can go as a spellcaster or non-spellcaster, assuming spells cast off-stage (pre-buffing) are allowed. She can also easily do non-lethal with no penalties.
Monkey king seems reasonable for her, and wild-shaping seems like a perfect fit for a trickster.
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Ah, well the restriction on gear changes things completely for Undy/Riddy. Their whole shenanigans with the Teamwork feat Elemental Commixture relies on a Ring of Tactical Precision and several pages of spell knowledge. So none of that will work which is quite a pity since one of the Elemental Commixture options would be to cast spells and cause the dmg to be non-lethal. But that's out now.
Losing his headband will also cause Undy to lose a level 2 and level 3 spell slot. GM, how do you want to handle this? Are the spell slots still there since the headband was worn when spells were prepped in the morning?
Btw, GM, is it confirmed that we are on a fresh day (i.e. all daily resources reset)?
In any case, the equipment restriction means that Undy and Riddy will have a bit they can do but still much less than before.
Lastly, are there any takers for Communal Stoneskin? So far I don't think anyone has expressed interest, in which case I'll likely keep it in reserve since it doesn't seem worth it to use it for just Undy and Riddy.
I realize Undy asked the same question. (Even before the most recent post which was made while I was typing this out) You were able to get a full nights rest following the combat with the assassins in the inn.
In this case it does seem like the main question is who is wearing armor.
Currently I have the costumes as the following (based on stated preferences and Tooth's list)
Casting:
Meylara as the Monkey King
Tooth as Cruel Bandit
Katrina as Black-Eyed Clown
Undy as White-Eyed Clown
Roles left are
(Armored Roles)
general
warrior woman
noble warrior
(Spellcasting Role)
wizened crone
With either Saya or Almaas taking on one of the armored roles.
(And if needed Undy seemed fine with being shifted into the Wizened Crone role if it needed, but had listed Clown as a preferred role).
I will start this later today, but I'm only really waiting on that last decision of who would be wearing the armor.
Ah, well the restriction on gear changes things completely for Undy/Riddy. Their whole shenanigans with the Teamwork feat Elemental Commixture relies on a Ring of Tactical Precision and several pages of spell knowledge. So none of that will work which is quite a pity since one of the Elemental Commixture options would be to cast spells and cause the dmg to be non-lethal. But that's out now.
I will say that I thought for a long while about this restriction. I do hope the party sees it as a unique experience rather than an onerous restriction. (and the same goes for the fact someone will need to wear heavy armor while non-proficient as well).
Losing his headband will also cause Undy to lose a level 2 and level 3 spell slot. GM, how do you want to handle this? Are the spell slots still there since the headband was worn when spells were prepped in the morning?
For ease I will say that you don't lose the spell slots. This will be the same for both prepared and spontaneous casters.
Also I'm saying that the performance is short enough that you will be able to regain the full benefits of your belts/headbands after you recover them following this encounter.
Btw, GM, is it confirmed that we are on a fresh day (i.e. all daily resources reset)?
You are on a fresh day with all your resources reset. You can also make purchases on the way to the theater (although you can't use it in this immediate encounter).
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Tooth will take armour in preference to Almaas, GM.
If Saya is willing to take the armour, then Tooth will take Cruel Bandit (and I assume Almaas will take Wizened Crone or a Clown outfit).
If Saya prefers a spellcaster outfit, then Tooth will take the Warrior Women (preferring the polearm) and Almaas will take Cruel Bandit.
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Sata would like to have the Crone if possible . she is one of the leads as well in case Perform is needed for the Show we are putting a show after all .
So , I belueve Saya would prefer that ne. Cane i guess would count as club improvised weapon if any , . bascially could use that to give aid to those adyacentsm with a -4 of any , bt song has to help .
So back to the ol AC 14 Heh Since no magic items would be available
DC 14 Reflex or she drops the weapon. Even if she passes she has to make a DC 14 Reflex every round she attempts to use the weapon.
I can still make the saving throw since it would certainly be a very effective attack, but my reading of grease is that the initial Reflex save negates the effect.
Material objects not in use are always affected by this spell, while an object wielded or employed by a creature requires its bearer to make a Reflex saving throw to avoid the effect.
With this sentence and specifically "make Reflex saving throw to avoid the effect", it seems as though that the initial Reflex save (when grease is used against an object) negates the grease spell rather than it continuing to effect them regardless of their saves.
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Almaas, you have something that lets Divine Favor go over it's cap of +3?
@GM - don't we get a will save vs Slow?
@GM - don't we get a will save vs Slow?
From what I found, the answer is no.
The example in there seem to indicate when slow and haste are cast against one another, the other is dispelled without a check or saving throw.
Since haste and slow counter and dispel each other, you can use one to dispel the other with no saving throw (or spell resistance).
Note that it doesn't matter if the target would normally get a saving throw or spell resistance to negate or avoid the spell used to dispel (such as casting slow to dispel an already-caste haste); to speed up gameplay and prevent lopsided applications of this sort of dispelling, the "diametrically opposed" spell automatically dispels its opposite, regardless of the desires of the creature affected by the opposite.
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Thank you Undiana for the reminder. The full text is in my profile. I think I have been applying the penalty throughout. Rereading it I think I might missed it on a couple of the damage rolls, but for the ones that didn't land. So everything should be accurate.
Wow - been playing this version of the game for 12 years and never knew that. Thanks!
It was the same for myself. I was ready to have each of you make will saves against the effect, but since I had time I ended up double checking how dispelling these sorts of opposed spells worked and that is how I found that FAQ entry.
That is in part why I'm very happy for point at things I might be getting wrong (especially in PbP where me checking a rule will not slow a session), because there are a lot of rules and edge cases I might be reading wrong just because in many cases I might still be going on assumptions from 3.5.
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GM .- for future rounds if we don't finish this in time, I'd like Saya to see about the people in the crowd being distracted of the show.
Not sure if a sensemotvie check would be allowed or how can She figure out this.
This is after all a performance, something she wouild like to enjoy doing amoung a well . martial arts tournament thing, so its not nice on her view that the people is losing the intrest on the performace . as fake or excuse to a figth that it might be.
Let me know and what kind f actions it may take .
Cheers
GM .- for future rounds if we don't finish this in time, I'd like Saya to see about the people in the crowd being distracted of the show.
Not sure if a sensemotvie check would be allowed or how can She figure out this.
This is after all a performance, something she wouild like to enjoy doing amoung a well . martial arts tournament thing, so its not nice on her view that the people is losing the intrest on the performace . as fake or excuse to a figth that it might be.
Let me know and what kind f actions it may take .
Cheers
At the pace you are going I think you will be able to talk to them if you are interested, as the theater is largely empty aside the judge and costumers. I will wait though until after the combat because there might be time to talk and otherwise roleplay with the pace you set.
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For the Mephit's attack, it does help, but it is still a bit short of a hit (with a 16) against the costume armor. If there were any other missing bonuses that could change that.
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Realizing that we need to be doing nonlethal, Meylara tells Petal Down!
I don't think we should be doing any damage to the Judge now.
He has to be conscious to hear us ring the gong. And he has to be conscious to tell us which door to go through. And he wants us to impress him. I'm not sure knocking him out and tying him up is going to work.
Given the position in the special I don't want to imply things that give incorrect impressions.
While ringing the gong would resolve much of the encounter, dealing him enough damage so that he acknowledges your victory will resolve it as well. Killing Judge Heng will not end this encounter.
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A note that on Katrina's next turn she'll cast Good Hope.
This spell instills powerful hope in the subjects. Each affected creature gains a +2 morale bonus on saving throws, attack rolls, ability checks, skill checks, and weapon damage rolls.
Hopefully that'll help people make their saves. It lasts for 11 minutes
I do believe Saya already cast an extended good hope during the fight with Judge Heng. I can't recall if it couldn't catch anyone, but I'm assuming it affected the entire party.
Also, Tooth is correct that he did dispel the heightened glitterdust. It may have been the case that the DC was high, if I were to adjust the DC it would have still not changed the successes and failures against the effect (unless counting other bonuses like good hope). Given the abilities of the party to respond to problems, I think the DC was, in this case, fair. I will keep it in mind going forward though.
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Yes Good hope should have covered everyone but Petal if i recall well, she was too far,
It was extended and cast on the first or second round of the combat , Extended would last for 20 minutes.
Also As per Bodyguard It says that it proveides a +2 Bonus to AC only, sadly it doesn0t apply in my understanding to CMD as much as i'd like to be otherwise , I've always been run to not work against manouvers, even if i consider it stupid. heh.
I'll leave it to you on how to judge that ruling.
Cheers
Saya: I hadn't realized Bodyguard was an untyped bonus to AC as written. I do think other dodge bonuses might be in play and protect against this particular sunder attempt. I'm going to avoid this ruling just yet, but if forced into it, I would say that the bonus Aid Another gives to AC is meant to be a circumstance bonus to AC (and therefore would aid CMD).
Meylara: I would say that it would be 1 standard to change from one form into another. I don't think you would need to spend the action to dismiss.