Time for new entries on the wiki!
As always, I am happy to walk folks through anything that is confusing.
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Latest giant update: Proficiencies. This is basically a whole chapter.
Proficiencies are the 2nd edition equivalent of a skill system. You have two categories: weapons and nonweapons. Each class has a list of weapons that you can learn to use, but you spend weapon proficiencies to pick specific ones that you know how to use. Fighters and gladiators can also specialize in weapons to gain extra bonuses. (Single-classed fighters may only specialize in one weapon; gladiators may specialize in several. Rangers and multi-classed fighters can't specialize at all.)
Nonweapon proficiencies are all of your noncombat skills like dancing and survival. These are subdivided into groups, based on your class type. If you're a priest, for instance, you pick from priest-related skills—the kinds of things that you'd learn from your career. You can take non-priest skills, but it costs extra (+1 "slot"). There's also a general category that anyone can choose, for basic stuff like pottery and cooking.
I'm slowly filling out pages for each nonweapon proficiency. If there's one in particular that you want to know about, let me know and I'll add it right away.
Your class determines how many proficiencies of each kind you get: There's a table on this page, and it's copied to each class's page for ease of reference. In addition, your Intelligence score gives you extra nonweapon proficiencies (the "# of Additional Languages" column on that table counts as nonweapon proficiencies instead of languages, since DARK SUN always uses proficiencies. Of course if you want a language, you can spend a proficiency for it!)
Gladiator page is up. Note that there are a variety of gladiator kits, which are like PF archetypes. I will try to get those up (or at least short descriptions) so that you can see in case you want to take one.
For gladiators, you take no penalty for using a weapon with which you aren't proficient, but it still costs you 2 proficiency slots to specialize in a weapon (3 for a bow). This means you still need to keep track of your weapon proficiencies (5, if you're a level 3 gladiator).
EDIT: Added the list of kits to the class page for gladiators. If one of them strikes your fancy, let me know and I'll type it up.
EDIT TO EDIT: While I was there, added a kits list to psionicists. Same deal: Lemme know if one interests you and I'll add a page for it.
Remember that except for certain very special kits, you can only take a kit if you're single classed.
Is the Professional Gladiator (Complete Gladiator's handbook pp15-16) not an available option for a kit? If so I'd go with that. If not, probably Arena Champion
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Is the Professional Gladiator (Complete Gladiator's handbook pp15-16) not an available option for a kit? If so I'd go with that. If not, probably Arena ChampionGladiator page is up. Note that there are a variety of gladiator kits, which are like PF archetypes. I will try to get those up (or at least short descriptions) so that you can see in case you want to take one.
For gladiators, you take no penalty for using a weapon with which you aren't proficient, but it still costs you 2 proficiency slots to specialize in a weapon (3 for a bow). This means you still need to keep track of your weapon proficiencies (5, if you're a level 3 gladiator).
EDIT: Added the list of kits to the class page for gladiators. If one of them strikes your fancy, let me know and I'll type it up.
EDIT TO EDIT: While I was there, added a kits list to psionicists. Same deal: Lemme know if one interests you and I'll add a page for it.
Remember that except for certain very special kits, you can only take a kit if you're single classed.
I'll let you pick Professional Gladiator for a kit, certainly.
Thanks!!
BTW, for HP we're doing max HP rolls for your first 3 levels, with half + 1 + relevant CON modifiers with each subsequent level up.
The Professional is (aside from a minor proficiency and an admonition against poison) basically just the gladiator class as-is—same as the Adventurer kit for thieves is just "the thief class."
The Complete Gladiator, like the later Defilers & Preservers, is kind of a mishmash that reprints a lot of stuff and makes some assumptions without following through on them. For instance, the aforementioned Professional says that it automatically gains Armor Optimization nonweapon proficiency at 5th level, but almost everything in the kit is just a reprint of the basic abilities of the gladiator class, while the Armor Optimization NWP in the core box set states that it stacks with the gladiator's class feature, meaning that they are two separate things. So it appears that the writer (Walter M. Baas) didn't realize that the gladiator gets Armor Optimization as a class feature and could choose to take the NWP of the same name for an extra bonus—he seems to have thought that they were the same thing, which they aren't. Or the Jazst dancer, which can get up to +1d10 damage on its attacks with z'tal feathers, but it never says anywhere how much z'tal feathers cost or how you get them, so why wouldn't every Jazst just start with 10 z'tal feather scales on each limb so that they can get maximum bonus damage on every attack? You have to fill in a lot by context and just make assumptions based on principles of good game design.
I guess then I'd go with Arena Champion, although the fame thing might be more of a hindrance than a benefit with randos attacking you because they're fans of a rival.
Would be a good reason for me to be at this shindig in the first place though
If you want; there's nothing wrong with the Professional, it's just the vanilla class (more or less - you get +Endurance NWP, -no poisons allowed).
Honestly, Endurance might be worth t, and I'm a massive war machine...who needs poison? There are other people for that.
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Well I don't think we have a bard in the group yet :D
Having double hit points from 3d10 means you start with 60 hit points + Con bonus, so you're basically a giant wall of meat!
So since everything I need is large, should I be doubling weapon and armor costs?
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Yes.
Oh we're going with Max HP??
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We are.
I mean, there are other ways to kill PCs in DARK SUN than mere HP damage... :)
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Alrighty--reviewing initial team composition so far, we have:
--A human psionicist (beastmaster kit);
--A thri-kreen psionicist;
--A half-giant gladiatrix (professional gladiator kit);
--An elf ranger/thief.
No arcane magic or any elemental priest magic so far, in case anyone needs character ideas. :)
Since we have a thri-kreen, I've updated the thri-kreen page with the six kits just for them found in Thri-kreen of Athas. I've fleshed out pages for four of the kits—the ones that are legal for a single-classed psionicist—in case our PC is interested in taking one of those. Of course, a kit isn't required; they're just flavor.
This does mean that I added chitinworking to the proficiency list, of course!
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By the way, you're doing an amazing job compiling all this information and making things easier to find. Your passion for the setting is clear.
Is there anywhere where armor types cost and effect on AC are listed?
That'll be the equipment chapter, which will be my next big chunk!
For now, you should be able to get by with these:
• Leather armor: AC 8, 5 cp, 15 lbs.
• Padded armor: AC 8, 4 cp, 10 lbs.
• Ring armor: AC 7, 100 cp, 30 lbs.
• Studded leather armor: AC 7, 20 cp, 25 lbs.
• Brigandine: AC 6, 120 cp, 35 lbs.
• Scale armor: AC 6, 120 cp, 40 lbs.
• Hide armor: AC 6, 15 cp, 30 lbs.
• Buckler: -1 to AC vs. 1 attacker per round, 1 cp, 3 lbs. Can hold other light objects while holding this shield. Can use a bow or crossbow with this shield.
• Small shield: -1 to AC vs. 2 attackers per round, 3 cp, 5 lbs. Can hold other light objects while holding this shield.
• Medium shield: -1 to AC, 7 cp, 10 lbs.
• Body shield: -1 to AC in melee and -2 to AC vs. missiles, 10 cp, 15 lbs.
As a half-giant you pay double because you need large-sized gear, of course.
Lower AC is better in this edition, so hide is probably the best armor in the list above (cheaper and lighter than other alternatives).
I picked these specific armors because these are the ones that you can wear without getting horrible heat exhaustion (there are rules for this!). Also, metal armor is extremely expensive, but anything in the list above can be made without metal, using bones, animal scales, and chitin as substitutes.
Thanks! Hide it is! Which fits perfectly with the picture I chose. heh
I'm through most of the nonweapon proficiencies. If you need text for something that isn't filled out, just call out and I'll add it. Mostly we're down to secondary stuff like Cooking, and things from sourcebooks that aren't the core material.
I've moved on to doing equipment, and I'm working on the weapons table. (Why are there so many pole arms?!?) After that comes armor, and then general gear.
I've also given our DM co-GM access to the wiki for editing!
(Why are there so many pole arms?!?)
Gary Gygax.
(Why are there so many pole arms?!?)Gary Gygax.
I blame Charles Ffoulkes.
There, I have the current character sheet updated for the psionics portion sans the defenses.
Tik'tik should have 24 hit points (6 per level of psionicist, 2 per level from Constitution bonus). Tik'tik's saving throws are:
Paralyzation, Poison, or Death Magic: 13
Rod, Staff, or Wand: 15
Petrification or Polymorph: 10
Breath Weapon: 16
Spell: 15
Armor Class (AC) is 3 (base 5 for thri-kreen, -2 modifier from Dexterity 16).
I'll get in power write-ups on the wiki for the powers that you picked!
So the weapon costs posted are for metal, right? Also, the disparity in cost between a melee and ranged weapon is completely insane!
So the weapon costs posted are for metal, right? Also, the disparity in cost between a melee and ranged weapon is completely insane!
They are.
Lol. A gladiator that can't afford a single decent weapon. guess I'll be all about killing people and taking them until I can actually get something useful.
Because of the extreme expense of metal weapons, you have to go for nonmetal ones to start. Your best bets for melee are the spear and the club. For ranged, the sling and the javelin.
Oh, I figured that, but even non-metal. most of those at 1/3 cost are unaffordable, and for me, it'll be x2.
Like I was considering Carrikal and had initially picked that as a weapon specialization. Makes no sense since I couldn't even afford a bone one. (533 for a large bone one)
I'll have to re-tool my weapon proficiencies (specializations)
Also, I swear some of these must be typos in the original material (I know you're transferring the source material over, it's not you) How on earth does the large version of a thrown or melee weapon do less damage than the medium version?
Oh, the S-M/L categories are based on the TARGET. Some weapons suck against big targets. Some can inflict more grievous wounds if they have a bigger target to puncture or slash.
Your size bonus is factored into the huge bonus you get to Strength. :)
Ah so that's how much damage it does against an opponent of that size! Good to know since that'll be a lot of enemies against me. That makes way more sense. Thanks.
Oh, the S-M/L categories are based on the TARGET. Some weapons suck against big targets. Some can inflict more grievous wounds if they have a bigger target to puncture or slash.
Alright--I'll confess that for the longest time I didn't know that.
Accelerate psionic power (psychometabolism devotion)
Regenerate psionic power (psychometabolism science)
Life Draining psionic power (psychometabolism science)
Biofeedback psionic power (psychometabolism devotion)
Body Control psionic power (psychometabolism devotion)
Heightened Senses psionic power (psychometabolism devotion)
Danger Sense psionic power (clairsentience devotion)
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@Rysky: Do you need some assistance? If you have any idea at all, I can easily whip up a character for ya.
@Zelimah: If the DM allows, I can add some weapons from the Combat & Tactics list. There are a few nonmetal weapons there, like the bola and the warclub, that might be useful to you.
A lot of your weapon specialization stuff is gonna be aspirational. Some day you will have an awesome weapon, so you should be specialized in something good! But at the start you will likely have a garbage weapon.
You'll note that I started Laurelin with a hand axe because it's a rare metal weapon that you can actually afford at the start.
Regarding Combat & Tactics: go right ahead.
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Regarding Combat & Tactics: go right ahead.
Ok, added adze, bolas, boomerang, cestus, club (great), club (war), mace-axe, net, pilum, pike, spear (long), sword (sapara), torch, and two-handed axe. Weapons in italics are made with nonmetal parts (and thus cheap!). Also updated the weapon ranges for the throwables, and (over on the proficiencies page) the rate of fire for specialists. Notably, these are weapons from stone/bronze age cultures as listed in C&T.
I also updated the armor section with cord armor, light scale, and the larger variety of helms from C&T. (Helms don't matter much unless the DM uses Called Shot rules to have someone take a swing at your noggin, but because psionicists and wizards can't wear helms, you never know when that might happen.)
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Is it too late to stick my nose in here to play? I've always wanted to try AD&D.
On a I have way too many books. I have some of the brown Complete Guides and some of the Volos Guides that I've picked up over the years a secondhand book stores just for ideas. Now I have a reason to read them.
The mechanics are pretty different in some ways (low armor class is better! There are about a hundred skills! There are no feats!). The general motifs are the same, though, so if you want to do a ranger, a ranger still mostly does the same stuff that they do in PF. DARK SUN is a little different just because it's more like Conan/Spartacus/John Carter of Mars. If you have a character in that vein in mind it should be straightforward to make it once you know what your stats are gonna be.
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I'm still reading through the thread so this was probably already explained. Do you roll the stats and then decide what race and class you can actually play with what you rolled? That sort of sounds amazingly awesome.
I'm still reading through the thread so this was probably already explained. Do you roll the stats and then decide what race and class you can actually play with what you rolled? That sort of sounds amazingly awesome.
Yes, you roll first, and then this affects your choices. In this edition, you can't even play certain things unless your ability scores meet certain minimum requirements.
Fortunately, you can arrange your rolls in whatever order you want, so if you really want to play, say, a wizard, you can put your highest roll into Intelligence.
There's a little shuffling if you know what you wanna play ("I wanna play a thri-kreen druid/psionicist") but you have to look over your rolls to see if you can meet the minimums.
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@CariMac: Welcome aboard! :D
Also, in case anyone missed it, the introductory Discussion post also lists several homebrewed kits we're using in this game, courtesy of Laurelin's player.
@Rysky: Do you need some assistance? If you have any idea at all, I can easily whip up a character for ya.
@Zelimah: If the DM allows, I can add some weapons from the Combat & Tactics list. There are a few nonmetal weapons there, like the bola and the warclub, that might be useful to you.
A lot of your weapon specialization stuff is gonna be aspirational. Some day you will have an awesome weapon, so you should be specialized in something good! But at the start you will likely have a garbage weapon.
You'll note that I started Laurelin with a hand axe because it's a rare metal weapon that you can actually afford at the start.
Thanks that definitely helped. Re-selected weapons and will start with Specialization in War Club (likely the best weapon I'll have access to for a while)
Banking the other 3 proficiency slots to specialize in a better weapon when I come across one (by level 5 I can choose two, or I can even choose a bow if I find one big enough)
Banking the other 3 proficiency slots to specialize in a better weapon when I come across one (by level 5 I can choose two, or I can even choose a bow if I find one big enough)
Unfortunately there's a pesky rule about that too:
"The player must assign weapon or nonweapon proficiencies to all of these slots before the character goes on his first adventure."
This applies to your 1st-level slots, so you have to either specialize in another weapon, or else find some other use for those two slots. You can bank the slot you gained for 3rd level.
I'll try to update tomorrow with a few other options:
Unarmed combat specialization: You can specialize in punching, wrestling, or martial arts. Could be useful if you're ever without a weapon, especially since it stacks with your gladiator ability to shift the type of hit that you score with unarmed strikes. Wrestling is great for takedowns when you wanna capture someone. Martial arts is decent if you are unarmed and still need to defend yourself. Punching has the advantage that anyone can do it, so spending slots on it makes you even better and you can occasionally knock people out. (Not most monsters tho.)
Fighting style specialization: You can use slots to gain bonuses when you fight in a specific way: weapon + shield, one-handed weapon, two-handed weapon, two weapons, missile weapon. Each has its own benefits.
I'll get these up on the page tomorrow. They're also from Combat & Tactics and The Complete Gladiator.
Thank you! I'll go over those after you get them up and pick
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I lied, I did it right now.
Fighting Style Specializations
Punching, Wrestling, and Martial Arts
In general, unarmed combat sucks, because you just knock people out. (Once they're out you could just keep kicking them until they die, though.) There are some advantages if you play it well. Against humanoids you have a chance to knockout on a punch. Also, with your enormous strength, you will do a ton of damage even if you score a glancing blow that normally has a base of 0 damage. Being a specialist in punching could give you some decent backup options if you're ever without a weapon (and it only takes 1 proficiency slot, b/c everyone is "proficient" in punching and wrestling). Wrestling can let you get holds on people, which is great if you want to keep someone from running away.
Martial arts are a bit dicier because you have to spend a slot just to be proficient, but it uses a different hit table that can be more effective. You can spent a second slot to specialize. Martial arts are explicitly available in DARK SUN as they appear in the sourcebook The Will and the Way, and the sensei kit for psionicists is a psychic martial artist!
Gladiators' +/-4 "table adjustment" lets you slide up and down the unarmed combat table to change the type of hit that you score, which lets you fish for more damage or a better chance at a K.O. Specialization increases your ability to table shift.