Tragically, Wisp literally can't carry another pound without hitting a Medium Load. That said, if Brental wants to buy some alchemist's fire or acid flasks, Wisp would happily spot him the dough to keep bugs out of her face. She's got 30 gp to spare.
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No Wand to start! That's fine. It probably won't take too long to get enough funds to purchase...or find one.
I put together a spreadsheet comparing the five of us on major nuts-and-bolts elements, which you can peep here.
It might have some errors, especially if people have been updating their sheets, but I figured it would be a good place to start. Yellow means I'm pretty sure the person has the skill trained, while gray means that it can't be used unless it's trained. I don't think I incorporated armor check penalties for anyone unless you had already marked it.
I haven't included our two animal companions or the phantom yet, and I kept Lorna to just the shared consciousness form.
@Signy: that would probably work out with the timeline, annual pilgrimages and all. We can work out specifics later! (I would also very much like to think of Brental as hot ^_^)
As far as items, Brental has about 10 gp left unless I switch a few things around, but he would be happy to pick up some alchemical items!
Brental can have anywhere between 30 and 130 gp to spend on alchemical items as he sees fit—I'll just have to scrap my potion and the antitoxin, which each cost me 50 gp.
EDIT: Oh, goodness help us, Wisp has the highest Int in the party. I guess this actually kind of makes her the skill monkey! Next level I'll start focusing much more on that role. I just had to get her basic essentials covered first.
I might swap out Sense Motive, since we're really well-covered for that, and nab Spellcraft or a Knowledge skill. I'm... open to swapping out Gregarious for that one Disable Device trait you mentioned. I'll look into it.
EDIT x2: Okay, yeah, this is a really cool trait. It actually fits Wisp really well, if Rackal is okay with her having encountered the Witchmarket and traveled with it for a time—either her Green Faith mentor introduced her to it and she visited it frequently as a child without fully appreciating the dangers it posed, or she joined up for a time over the last twenty years. It might even be related to how she ended up close to drowning in the river. Maybe her parents traveled with the Witchmarket (or were working off a debt to it), and she inherited some of that familiarity. Tons of options. But her having had some dealings with the Witchmarket really fits her "all-too-easy to spirit away" weakness, and helps explain her Fey-Taken drawback even better.
Regardless, thoughts, Rackal? It's technically a Regional trait, so it's presumably your call if Wisp can get it.
If we're okay with that, I'll drop my rank in Sense Motive, put a rank in Disable Device, and swap out Gregarious for Voices of Solid Things (Disable Device). That'll give me a +7 to Disable Device and shore up a big skill hole in our party. Plus, it's really cool lore.
I LOVE that trait! It's perfect for fey-oriented campaigns and characters. Glad you enjoy it!
I usually play high Int or high Cha characters. Welcome to skillmonkeydom!
If you grab Disable Device, I'll pick up Spellcraft.
And then I'll probably grab a few alchemist's fires and acid flasks. Any other alchemical preferences?
Tanglefoot bags are never not fantastic. You can be at 20th level and still get annoyed if one hits you.
@Wisp: If you want to pick up Disable Device that's fine with me, but remember Signy will be dipping at 2nd level to get Disable Device and Trapfinding. The trait you're looking at won't allow you to disarm magical traps, so it could have a shelf life.
Or, if you really want to be the traps person, I'll hand that job over to you and alter my dip. You'll probably want to be able to handle magical traps at some point though.
Signy picked up 2 acid flasks and 1 alchemists fire.
Oh, I didn't remember that. That makes things trickier, then. I really like the flavor, but flavorful mechanics that only come up for 1st level... not so much. Shoot.
There are two options, if we still want to go with that:
- I take a level dip into something like Rogue at 2nd level.
- I spontaneously combust from sheer nitpicky fury and get reincarnated as a PC from a Mummy's Mask campaign, so I can grab that one trapfinding trait at 3rd level with the Extra Traits feat. :P
Trapfinding is such an annoying little rule, isn't it? I'll think about it.
You could take a 1 level dip and get both if you want to do traps. Your options would be:
1. Seeker Sorcerer
2. Seeker Oracle
3. UnRogue (Go Vanilla, many archetypes lose Trapfinding)
4. Crypt Breaker Alchemist
With all these except Rogue you could pick up at at least a couple of utility spells as well.
Same idea as what Signy would be doing.
Oh, yeah, there's a lot of level dip options I can see—it's just not my favorite thing. A part of me is probably just compulsively annoyed about having to diverge from my druid spell progression for a single level all for one little class feature. It feels "messy" to my brain. I'll probably go that way if Rackal okays the trait, but it's going to tickle at the back of my head for the rest of the campaign, I just know it. :P
There’s also the VMC option if the GM is okay with it. Honestly, though, hopefully we will be fine even without it. :)
Looking at the spreadsheet - man I suuuuck! Well, I’m happy with the flavor anyway, so it’s fair game. Lorna’s phantom is quite strong, but it has too much of a heavy toll on her (especially at these first levels) to really be much of a factor.
Are drawbacks in play? I didn’t know it. There are certainly some very thematic drawbacks for Lorna, and I could use another trait.
Well, with Signy's wisdom offensive casting isn't something she's set up to do. She'll be buffing mostly with her spells. The loss of a caster level isn't much of a big deal to her.
If Wisp doesn't do it, she will.
The recruitment Reqs say a drawback is fine, but no extra trait for it.
Drawbacks are in that "you can take 'em, but it won't give you any extra traits" space a lot of PbPs put them in. Wisp has them strictly because I like reflecting a character as accurately as possible, and her limp, in particular, is an important aspect of how she interacts with challenges.
In other words, there's absolutely no reason to take them, but I like customization options too much for Wisp's own good. :P
Oh, and it's not about caster level. It's about having to look at the sheet and see a single rogue level marring a perfectly steady Pure Druid Progression Line. It's like having a one-block hollow in Tetris I just can't get to no matter how hard I try. But if you're sure you're okay letting me take over trapfinding, I will happily put up with the level dip! The flavor for the trait is really cool for Wisp.
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I have no stake in who takes Disable Device, but I'm more than happy to point out that there is such a thing as good overlap.
That being said, I think Disable Device is probably one of those skills that doesn't really need more than one PC in a party to have. So, uh... I support taking traits for flavor purposes?
Yeah, I just wanted to be part of the conversation and forgot I didn't really have anything to say.
Yeah, I'd happily just assist Signy with Aid after level 1 if I could, but Disable Device is specifically a wonky skill for aiding on.
Signy, if you want Disable Device, the last thing I want to do is push you out of that role for the sake of a trait I liked. If you're okay with me taking it, though, and Rackal approves the Regional trait, I'm gonna grab a level of Rogue next level—see if I can get some extra skill points while I'm there, too. Too bad quarterstaves aren't finessable.
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I don't really care one way or another. If Wisp dips Rogue, Signy will still dip, but with a mind toward helping her combat abilities.
Or maybe I'll still pick it up. Check this teamwork feat out. With Solo tactics Wisp wouldn't need to take the feat.
Cooperative Disabling
You are skilled at working with an ally to disable traps.
Prerequisite(s): Disable Device 1 rank, trapfinding class feature.
Benefit(s): When you use the Disable Device skill and fail the check against a trap, a single adjacent ally with this feat who is also within reach of the trap can attempt a Disable Device check against the same device as an immediate action. The ally must have remained adjacent throughout the process of disabling the device and must have either aided your Disable Device check or taken no other action. If your ally succeeds at the check, your attempt is considered to be successful. If your ally fails, your attempt is considered to have failed by 5 or more, even if the original check failed by 4 or less.
There’s a feat for spiritualists that lets me keep the phantom progression for some levels and multiclass. I was considering something like fighter on in these lines, but between us I’ll get whatever I feel the party needs most once we get to that level, and I have a feeling it won’t be rogue :) and man, do I love druids. Some great, insane optimized builds are possible, especially around shapeshifting. I love the flavor of the class, but I played them so much that nowadays I’m all for trying these new weird classes and archetypes no one plays (because they’re generally terrible!) like this one :)
Man, I love Solo Tactics. It's like tactician, but better. Mind you, since Meneas doesn't get tactician, I can't exactly complain.
But I totally agree with taking on weird archetypes and stuff - it's fun to experiment, even when they're terrible. Except for the drake companion classes. Because those are so bad they're not fun.
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Nothing is worse than the oozemorph shifter, and I was able to play with it an entire AP. The quintessentialist is bad but I might still make it work at higher levels... hopefully :) flavor trumps all and I’m sure you guys will compensate. My biggest concerns are healing related and I feel I will still manage it somehow. In party terms, though, the lack of an arcane caster might be our biggest downfall, so let’s tread carefully. We gotta find someone to do spellcraft too.
I did originally have ideas about Wisp going Mystic Theurge, but I think I must have assumed Spiritualist was an arcane class? Point being, I can go back to Mystic Theurge if we want and provide some nice arcane utility. In that case, I'd likely go something like:
Level 1: Druid
Level 2: Rogue
Levels 3-4: Druid
Levels 5-7: Arcanist
Levels 8-17: Mystic Theurge
I don't think arcane casters are critical, but if we're worried, I am fine going down that route. Basically, whatever's needed. :)
Also, Brental offered to grab Spellcraft, so we're covered for that. As for healing, of the five of us, three of us should have at least one Cure Light Wounds on hand apiece, plus my roughly two free potions per day (which, unlike alchemist extracts, do carry over). I think we'll be covered nicely until we can purchase that wand. :)
Also also, if we're really pressed, we should buy some scrolls, or a mostly-used wand, if Rackal will allow the latter. Scrolls are really nice to have.
Or maybe I'll still pick it up. Check this teamwork feat out. With Solo tactics Wisp wouldn't need to take the feat.Cooperative Disabling
You are skilled at working with an ally to disable traps.
Prerequisite(s): Disable Device 1 rank, trapfinding class feature.
Benefit(s): When you use the Disable Device skill and fail the check against a trap, a single adjacent ally with this feat who is also within reach of the trap can attempt a Disable Device check against the same device as an immediate action. The ally must have remained adjacent throughout the process of disabling the device and must have either aided your Disable Device check or taken no other action. If your ally succeeds at the check, your attempt is considered to be successful. If your ally fails, your attempt is considered to have failed by 5 or more, even if the original check failed by 4 or less.
Hot dog! This feat looks like fun, and I'm always a fan of team maneuvers. It's especially fun with Wisp's trait's "talk to objects" flavor—"Wisp, this magical trap is giving me trouble, can you have a word with it?"
Speaking as someone who doesn't have an arcane caster in one of my games... I think it varies, honestly. Depends on what role we'd expect such a caster to take. Like, AoE damage, maybe we'll be missing. Some sorts of utility spells? Definitely...
Dunno. But I'd be more focused on healing and such than on the other stuff. Just from personal preference.
Yeah, in my game, the most "arcane" they have is an alchemist and bard. I think the biggest things we'll miss are arcane utility like teleport, and a lot of those spells are just replacements for the fun mundane alternatives. It's not a thing to worry about in the short term.
I also don't think Rackal is planning on running a meat grinder here, so we might be overthinking things a little. But it shows that we're all excited to start! :P
All the multiclassing will likely harm you too much, mate. I think we will just have to be creative with stuff like AoE, crowd control, utility, etc.
And I know we literally have three arcane casters which could do CLW and similar, plus wands etc. - but I'm not sure how stuff like restoration, heal, resurrect, remove blindness, dealing with curses etc. works on the druid and inquisitor lists. Hopefully well enough despite no channel? - still, though, if I put my Phantom out, I'm essentially taking 1d6 damage every round. By level 3, sometimes Lorna will just be plain nauseated while the "other girl" is out. Not complaining, I know where I was stepping when I came out with this concept.
I will work on getting boots of the earth, at some point maybe a ring of regeneration. I thought about multiclassing into something like spelleater bloodrager (couple levels) to get some extra fast healing (nauseated rage ftw!), and likely get the Fast Healer feat.
I'm not too worried about multiclassing—once Mystic Theurge kicks off, the sheer versatility makes up for a lot. But I'm happy to stick with druid. With one dumb rogue level grumble grumble...
Druids get Lesser Restoration and Remove Disease and Resurrection isn't an issue—we've got reincarnate, after all! The rest will be an issue. I'm sure there are magic items or the like we can invest in, though, and it's a long ways off still.
It's a really cool archetype. You're right. It's terrible. I love it. It reminds me of the Sandman bard in that way. When we get the wand, I'm pretty on board for Wisp running full "keep Lorna alive" duty while her exemplar is out. Honestly, I think that's a very interesting combat role for Wisp.
You know, if you do trapper ranger instead of rogue, there are some interesting feats (like shapeshifting hunter for example) that would be quite powerful (full progression in favored enemy fey? Not losing a level of wild shape? Etc.) - I mean, plus full bab and other toys the further you’d go. Useful even with a single level and you’d get trapfinding.
That's a good idea, but Wisp isn't built around wild shape, really. I might not even take Natural Spell for a while. Like, some utility stuff is nice, but she's not going to be able to capitalize on it for a lot, thanks to her low Dex and lower Strength. I think I might rather get the skill points. Plus, Rogue Finesse will help her if she absolutely has to resort to melee wild shaping.
Maybe I can put some ranks in UMD at some point and get us some scrolls of restoration and the like, when such magic becomes a priority. I dunno. We'll feel that out.
With Rackal's permission, I will take the Witchmarket trait and put a rank in Disable Device. Regardless, I will see you all in the morning!
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Wisp will also get some arcane enchantment and illusion spells to boost versatility. For most of what else we need, Use Magic Device covers a multitude, and Lorna has a good start to that. If we're in serious need of arcane power, Wisp can go mystic theurge, or Brental could go Empyreal Sorcerer--which would fit *quite* well.
Wisp will certainly be taking a dip into Rogue then? I'll scan through some alternative options if that's the case.
As long as Rackal's okay with the trait (and I think it's actually meant to be available for Kingmaker?), yes, that's my plan. And I'm game for the teamwork feat combo if you want to go for it.
Oh, and yeah, poly, I forgot about that! I'd forgotten because I was planning on going theurge, and thus wasting that fun feyspeaker ability, but since I'm not... you can do a lot with illusion and enchantment, especially with the shadow conjuration-type options.
After Lorna gets to level 3, I might get the Phantom Ally feat for 4 levels of multiclassing. Considering currently Spelleater Bloodrager, as I said, and Brawler (Hinyasi, potentially Snakebite Striker), two levels in each for the "right edge", then back to spiritualist for the rest of her levels. This will net her the improvised weapons edge, feats, fast healing, and hopefully nice toys like raging for a boost at health.
I like the skills too you'd get from rogue, Wisp, but ranger gets 6+INT (which is already nice, though not 8+INT). Keep in mind shapeshifting hunter isn't only about wild shape, but also favored enemy - which is a huge boost to combat if you can pick a nice one. A single level in ranger would already give that, trapfinding and full BAB, and you wouldn't harm your druid spell progression as much. I just feel it has a lot more synergy with druid but if you happy with rogue, go for it!
Wisp's combat abilities are, uh, nil. Especially since Feyspeaker gets the Slow BAB progression. Couple that with her cowardice and Wisp entering combat is strictly a last resort. Favored Enemy does give nice skill bonuses, though, which I am a fan of. They're both good options, and there's no better problem to have.
Also, the Quintessentialist archetype is so interesting. It seems like it'd be a great way to develop a complex. Your phantom is literally leeching your life force to take the form of "You, But Better In Every Way". Every combat has you sitting in the shadow of the You you could have been while you slowly waste away. I almost want to try this archetype sometime. Maybe an NPC.
I was unable to find an avatar that fit the image of Brental I had, and there also aren't very many images with a quick Google search that do quite what I want either. But the alias is up!
I haven't added the alchemical items to Brental's sheet, but with 30 gp from Wisp and his own 10 gp, he would probably get one Alchemist's Fire and two Acid Flasks. If there's more available, he would definitely get a Tanglefoot Bag.
I added brief potential entries of Brental's prior encounters with Wisp and Signy for your review. Just some quick ideas. Looking forward to officially meeting Lorna and Meneas, too!
@Rackal28, please let me know if there is anything missing from the profile that you would like to see!
Alright so I'm awake now! Let's see what we need to address.
So Polyfrequencies, everything is looking good so far with your alais, I'll let you know if I see anything before I post the actual game.
Kobold! That Trait looks so freaking cool, hells to the yeah you can take it. Enjoy~
I will also allow the purchase of a Wand of Cure Light Wounds with less charges at a discounted rate proportional to the amount of charges left in the device.
Something to keep in mind for players is that places to shop for magic items and what items will be avialable will be somewhat limited in this game. I'm sticking to the usual magic item generation rules for shops and this is an area of low inhabitance currently so just keep that in mind. Though you can always make the long trek back to Rostland.
Kobold again, I'm not sure how I feel about exchanging gold for components out in nature itself, mostly because I'm not sure what you mean by "her gold is worth less" in towns. If you could give me a definitve idea of how much less then maybe but you would also not be able to exchange gold with other party members then so it does get rather complex.
I feel that I'm just gonna add some extra health to monsters and maybe make a few more of them show up, I'm probably overcomplicating things with the whole quarter turn thing.
For my harvesting rules I can lay them out here for you all to get an idea of what I mean, though Wisp can use her herbalism to make whatever potions she has access to on her spell list as usual.
Harvest requires appropriate Knowledge check per tier then Heal or Survival check to harvest.
Value = Rarity x Tier x CR x (% Over/Under Base Weight for Tier 1 and 2)
Rarity
------
Ultra Common = 1 = Human/Common Animals
Very Common = 2 = Elves/Half-Orcs/Wild Animals
Common = 3 = Goblins/Kobolds/Gnoll/Drow/Common Undead/Rare Animals
Somewhat Common = 4 = Dire Animal/Dinosaurs
Somewhat Uncommon = 5 = Imp/Quasit/Owlbear
Uncommon = 6 = Basic Outsider/Dryad/Wight
Very Uncommon = 7 = Drake/Wyvern/Shambling Mound
Somewhat Rare = 8 = Young Dragon
Rare = 9 Adult Dragon/Purple Worm/Unicorn
Very Rare = 10 = Tarrasque/ Ancient Dragon
Base Weight
-----------
157.5
CR
--
Base CR
Tier
----
1 = 1 Gold = Check DC 5 + CR
2 = 5 Gold = Check DC 10 + CR
3 = 25 Gold = Check DC 15 + CR
4 = 125 Gold = Check DC 20 + CR
5 = 250 Gold = Check DC 25 + CR
Example
-------
Human
-----
Hair - Wig - 3 Silver (SoL if Bald. . . x2 if long)
Bones - Crafting - 2 Gold
Blood - Cure Light Wounds - 8 Gold
Heart - Unbreakable Heart - 42 Gold
Brain - Human Potential - 83 Gold
Keep in mind that I made this up for a NE character that was an actual cannibal so you know, there may be moral repercussions to using or harvesting parts even from certain monsters.
@Rackal: Since Wisp will be taking a Rogue dip now, which means she can handle trap duty, I'm looking at a couple of opinions other than Seeker Oracle. One of them would need your permission on a couple of details...
I can get the oracle flavor aspects we'd talked about by adding a second archetype to Inquisitor, the Ravener Hunter replaces the Domain with 2 Revelations from an Oracle mystery. The archetype is fluffed as for catfolk with a Mwangi Expanse setting, but it's not a racial archetype so if that doesn't bother you Signy qualifies. It also says the powers are drawn from nature rather than a god, but again that's fluff and not disqualifying unless it bothers you to have a god involved.
The thing that you would have to allow before it could work as I want it to is allowing the Draconic mystery to be taken. It isn't on the list of Mysteries that can be chosen as written. If you don't want to allow Draconic to be used that's fine, there are a couple of other Mysteries I can work with. But Draconic does fit best with the possibility Signy has a blood link to House Rogarvia.
Ravener Hunter is much easier because it does essentially the same thing as an Oracle dip would do, but without forcing multi-classing to get it done.
That said, I may still do a 1 level dip so I can keep the sword scion campaign trait and make it work. I need to pick up proficiency with either longsword or Aldori dueling sword in some way, likely at 2nd level.
How does this sound?
Well, if you are not completed married to the Cayden Cailean idea, you could always worship something like Iomedae... And you'd get the proficiency automatically by being an inquisitor.
I'd say you can go right ahead and use the archetype, it isn't limited to catfolk so, rules as written, it's fine.
As for taking the Draconic Mystery... I'll allow it. But only because it fits in really well with the campaign.
I swapped out Mounted Combat for Combat Expertise, because I realized that at level 1, at least, with a +5 Ride modifier, if something does hit Veil's AC 19, I'm probably not going to be able to negate it. Plus, this sets me up nicely for Improved Feint come level 3, which means more yummy sneak attack damage.
(If anyone's wondering why I'm focused on feinting, it's cause I get half my cavalier level in bonus to feinting. So I figured, why not go with it?)
Also, vague future idea: The Squire feat? Maybe.
Question, Rackal: Are we doing XP or milestones for leveling up? I tend to favor the latter, but if someone else's keeping track of such things, I'm okay with that. xD
I'm doing milestones, I tend to favor them myself. That way you get an awesome level up when you defeat the Tyrant King Galthrax and not when you kill Goblin Minion #45
Good, good.
Also, grah, I have no idea what my second feat should be. I'm leaning towards Dirty Fighting now, because I'll probably use it more often than Combat Expertise, but... grrr. I dunno.
Cool cool, thanks Rackal! Normally I don't go in much for the 'descendent of great beings' type of stuff, but it really works in this case.
Signy's 1st Revelation is Dragon Senses for Darkvision 60'.
Okay, I give up. Mounted Combat it is for later feats, and because I'll use it more often than either of the other two. Final answer, yada yada.
@Lorna: Alas, I'm totally married to Cayden Cailean, that lucky, Lucky Drunk. :p
Okay, so I have 100 gp. 90 gp gets us a 6-charge CLW wand. Does anyone have gp to spare? 50 gp will let me get a 10-charge wand, and 125 gp will let me get a 15-charge wand. It's 15 gp per charge, basically.
I promised myself I wouldn't post until I'd done my work this morning, but we should get this sorted out before Gameplay starts. I've bought a 6-charge CLW wand—for every 15 more gp I get, I can boost it by a charge. Heck, even 5 more gp would let me bring it to a 7-charge wand.
I don't think we'll need to grab a CLW wand just yet, honestly, but I do have 52 gp to spare.
Re: Harvesting, very cool! I know Ultimate Wilderness had a few more things for harvesting natural poisons and such, and then there's this gem:
https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Harvest%20Parts
Among others!
I'm mostly curious because I envision Brental as a waste-not type of person. The cycle of life and death is natural to him. Although a rotting kill may benefit carrion feeders and fungus, he would rather use everything he can to keep him and his companions well. But this would apply more to animals that he hunts. For most other creatures, particularly the sapient, he wishes to respect their burial traditions and not further mar their corpses unless a strong need requires something different.
Would we need specific tools for this? I can find room in my inventory for a harvester's or tanner's kit.
I have 10 gp and I can shift a few things around for more.
Meneas, I think having a basic 10-charge wand would be good for giving Lorna some breathing room. She takes 1d6 damage per round whenever her phantom is out and about. Add in us having something like five melee combatants and I think we'll be happy to have that breathing room.
If you'd rather save your 50 gp, that's fine. If you're okay contributing it, though, Wisp will be happy to handle the CLW wand duties.
Fair point. Have at it! That is, here's the money.
Excellent! 10-charge wand is a go! The in-game explanation for how Wisp has your money is presumably that at some point, wherever you were, you were robbed by bandits, and through the beauty of Trickle-to-Wisp Economics...
Signy's pretty close to broke but I have 10 gp I can put toward a CLW wand if that helps.