Looking at the calendar and where we're at, my suggestion is that we do as much prep work as we can -- but then start the actual fight that you're rushing toward after I return from my vacation (rather than halting mid-fight).
On that note, I'll be away from October 27 to the weekend of November 5 - and likely (with unpacking and all that) not catching up 'til Monday the 8.
However -- I figure 6 days for you to get an objective and figure out how you'll be handling it that doesn't involve becoming a bullet-sponge should be most useful. ;)
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You're less likely to get shot by the skulls; more likely to draw triad fire? Raptor's gonna look good in it!
(Danny would too. )
Okay, so, now you just need to plan how to get into the garage and drop an unknown group of dudes who are probably getting ready to roll and armed because of it. No hassle.
On the plus side, I give you a week to do it.
That is to say, that'll be my last post until November 8 due to family holiday.
Windows? Maybe we could punch a couple grenades through them before we kick the door open.
Just let me know who's going up to peek in the windows and how they're approaching.
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Oh crap, school's back in and I haven't done my homework.
As an alternative, I can use Eyes (or get another Eyes) to spy out the terrain.
Danny can stealth up, tiptoeing through the trash-bits, then chuck in the bombs.
Solid plan. I know you took a couple grenades. What else would you like?
I think that'll do, though we could do with some comms devices. Sneak in, do some recon, get into position, then chuck the bombs. After everybody else has charged in, maybe nip through a side entrance (or the same window) and flank them.
Oh crap, school's back in and I haven't done my homework.
As an alternative, I can use Eyes (or get another Eyes) to spy out the terrain.
Watchers are pretty easily distracted and not terribly smart -- not really intended to be scouts. You could certainly send one in to jump anyone who tries to access the Astral, though.
So how will combat work? Will we have a map, or just text descriptions of the action?
0nyx or a minion can scope out the astral aspects of the place, in case there are any defenses or tripwires, if you like. I had figured this to be an ad hoc assembly point for the Tong, but it might be a prepped safe house.
I'll probably go work up a roll20 map.
So, as promised, here's the link to join the SR game:
You'll also see the map of the garage/gas station if you go in -- at the moment, I have you coming in from the street edge (i.e. - the east) -- the red blob is the collapsed awning - it took out the roof where it was, so most of the diner area is open to the elements (and the windows are long gone).
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I made some tokens for us because I enjoy it and have time. If you have a pic you want for your token, give me a link or PM me.
Nice map. And thanks for the token, Treppa. Much cooler than Jay's icon here on Paizo.
Can't seem to move the icon.
I usually use the Paizo icons people have chosen for their characters, but Jay's avatar looks like a zombie, which seems less than optimally charismatic. You should have control now. People have to join the game before they can be assigned control of tokens.
Glassman was a total swag based off an adept pic that fit into a hex well. *shrug* Could be worlds away from Limey's image of his character.
Aside from the empty eyes, Jay's Paizo icon was a pretty good fit for how I imagine his appearance, although a little short on style.
Am just trying to move Danny into position - doesn't seem to work for me, though... (He'd look more like the iconic monk (Sajani?) really, but the icon there works fine)
Weird month coming up at work. I'll be traveling Tues-Thursday next week and the week of the 22nd. The week of the 8th I'll be on the road Mon-Thur. And the week of the 15th I'm in a class.
Posting may be spotty.
I think planning might be a challenge because this system is new to us. Tilnar, do you mind if we chat out of character about combat strategy for a bit? If we were in this world, we'd understand things better, so I don't feel ooc talk here would be out of line.
Anyone else grok this?
All good that you work up a plan.
Ultimately, ambushes are super-effective, especially when you have grenades and magi.
That said, to pull off an ambush where the other folks (who may or may not have reflex-enhancements) aren't able to react - well, you can't do it in a way that makes noise or takes time (a full combat turn is only 3 seconds, after all -- and someone with excellent enhancements can reliably get 3-4 action phases in that time).
In terms of useful things to keep in mind:
- Most cybernetic (or bio) reflex enhancements don't turn off -- so enhanced opposition will likely be able to react pretty darned quickly.
- Surprise rules generally work by opposed reaction tests, with bonuses to the attacker -- so a slow non-cybered person trying to ambush could fail as the other person's crazy-fast reaction times lets 'em act before the ambusher.
- Grenade overpressure -- basically, grenades damage code is what happens right next to them -- the shockwave continues out from there, reducing damage code as it does (the speed at which it does depends on if it's offensive or defensive) -- but if the wave hits an object it can't blast through, it reflects off the wall. So, someone in a pit or closet, instead of just getting the initial blast, can get damage codes way up into the 20s as the pressure hits the walls, comes back, and hits the opposite wall, does it again, etc, etc -- this is usually referred to the "chunky salsa effect"
Kick open the door, lead with some grenades, then shoot it out?
Or start with that plan through the back door, then blow one of the big doors and pinch them between us.
The action economy and initiative in this game is different from PF. Cyberpeople will likely go first and have more turns. Not sure how prepared actions work.
I think it's probably better if we stick together - if there's a possibility that we'll be out-reacted, so to speak, the more firepower we can concentrate in one place the better, IMO.
Other than that, bust open the door then chuck bombs in sounds reasonable to me.
It's not so bad, Treppa. In 2 and 1, they would go first and have their many turns before slower folks even got to move.
Sounds good to me!
Or we can cover front and back doors, chuck in bombs and spells, and plink them from cover outside? I can also drop an elemental in on them.
I have 4 bound elementals that I can whistle up, though calling them is an exclusive complex action. If we want one on standby, I should do it before combat.
I'm not going to get as many actions as the enhanced dudes - maybe 1 or 2 - so what do we want to do with spells? I can toss Chaotic World in as kind of a magical flashbang. Chaotic World will go on as long as I sustain it, which means it can go away in my action leaving only the effects, so it'll be clear before we rush in. I'm only level 4 on that, so it's not the best, but it's not bad.
Alternatively, I can try to stun the mage (though he'll probably be pretty resistant). Should we have an enhanced person go in and just try to sucker punch their mage and keep him from casting? Of course, he might be an Adept. Is our own Adept the best person to handle a mage?
It's not so bad, Treppa. In 2 and 1, they would go first and have their many turns before slower folks even got to move.
Yeeps!
Adepts aren't necessarily any better or worse at taking down magi. Comes down to their willpower and abilities - and whether the mage gets the drop on them. Generally, Adepts can't do astral defense as they don't have pools -- the ability to protect from spells usually requires the ability to cast 'em.
Mage best practices questions:
So if I'm reading spell defense correctly, I can protect up to 6 people, so I can protect the party (including myself). I need to allocate dice - spell pool allowed - to defense. Is 3 dice a good number for that? 4? And I need to do that before combat starts. Is that something I can/should do as soon as the party assembles, to protect against surprises?
I think I can call my fire elemental to enhance my combat spell pool, but he's only F2 so I think he's only 2 dice, then vanishes (using one service) and I'd have to recall him (using another).
Is there anything a good mage would do to defend against astral combat? I can ask Eyes to protect me, since Jay is joining the group. I think my elementals can also help in the astral if I don't command them to manifest.
Fire is my weak elemental, but I have 4 services. Earth is my heavy hitter and might be good to call if the fighters are getting beat up. Or should I cast armor first and have Earth sustain it?
Augh, did I scare everyone off? I'm sorry! We can move forward if you like, roll a grenade and charge.
I do want to put spell defense on everyone before we go in.
Mage best practices questions:
So if I'm reading spell defense correctly, I can protect up to 6 people, so I can protect the party (including myself). I need to allocate dice - spell pool allowed - to defense. Is 3 dice a good number for that? 4? And I need to do that before combat starts. Is that something I can/should do as soon as the party assembles, to protect against surprises?
I think I can call my fire elemental to enhance my combat spell pool, but he's only F2 so I think he's only 2 dice, then vanishes (using one service) and I'd have to recall him (using another).
Is there anything a good mage would do to defend against astral combat? I can ask Eyes to protect me, since Jay is joining the group. I think my elementals can also help in the astral if I don't command them to manifest.
Fire is my weak elemental, but I have 4 services. Earth is my heavy hitter and might be good to call if the fighters are getting beat up. Or should I cast armor first and have Earth sustain it?
Okay, there's a lot there, and some of it (at least) depends on personal style/preferences and the scenario.
For instance, putting dice into shielding means they are not available for your own spellcasting - they're off in "defense" land.
So the question is, how defensive do you want to be? You could keep a wackload in reserve in case their spellcaster packs a mean manaball. Or, you could keep all your dice in hand to flatten the bad guys so their mage never gets to cast a manaball, so just how nasty it might be remains a mystery. Often, too, it'll depend on the party you're with -- a mage might find themselves pressed to use a whole lot of their dice to save folks with poor willpower (since they have fewer dice to protect themselves with and they will have more successes against them), whereas a party high wills need less help - they're harder to nail with spells and have more to defend themselves with.
You can do it beforehand, yes, even as "standard practice" -- but it means you're going on to every fight with a bunch of dice inaccessible.
Astral combat, generally isn't a thing unless you're fighting spirits - generally, things wholly on the astral can't affect the physical world and vice versa. Having a watcher in guard mode isn't a bad idea per se, but the little guy is going to be a speed bump - a canary in the coal mine - to any nature spirit or elemental.
In terms of using up your elementals, that's also a matter of style and choice. If you think you're going to get shot a bunch, having an armour spell is spiffy and good. Using up an elemental for it is totally your call -- it's expensive, and may not be a habit you can afford. At the same time, you can't spend a big pile of nuyen if you're dead.
Can I change defense dice each turn?
Dice allocated don't come back into your actual pools until the next turn (round) - not to be confused with the next Combat Phase (i.e. your turn). But yes that means you can change the allocation of your dice.
Augh, did I scare everyone off? I'm sorry! We can move forward if you like, roll a grenade and charge.
I do want to put spell defense on everyone before we go in.
I'd rather have as much personal protection as possible before our first Big Fight - you go ahead and take time to sort out what you need :)
First combat in a new game system? I'm fine if we go in there and splash a big TPK. But take your time, get a handle on the magic thing. Ultimately it will be important.
Let's put a pin in things, given the holidays and desire to spend time with our families and what not. I'm suggesting that y'all figure out which doors it'll be and we can start rolling dice for the act of kicking them in (and what follows) after that.
Sounds like a RL plan, Tilnar.
I believe we wanted to stay in a tight group. I think we'll be going in through one door. I imagine it will be the back door where Onyx and Raptor are now.
Merry Christmas everyone! See you in a few days.
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I'll put on my Santa Hat for a moment and give everyone a bonus 1-use-only point (i.e. - not a permanent increase, not something that refreshes - it's a one-shot) in their karma pools.
Ho ho ho! Thanks, Santa GM.
I guess our plan is pretty much set. I think first one in should rush the mage, then I got in and drop Chaotic World in the pit, then we can start with grenades and guns?
Sorry about the delays in posting - having a 4-year-old at home hasn't been doing wonders for my ability to take the time to post anything useful. (Nor has the ferrying the old cat to the vet repeatedly, but that's a whole other bit of unpleasantness). In any case, I imagine that I should be back to my usual posting schedule in the next day or so -- as much as work will be stupid this week, I'm sure I can find time over lunch or something.
No worries, Tilnar. I hope the cat's situation resolves and your four year old develops a sudden liking for working out geometry proofs.
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Sorry for delays myself. We were exposed to COVID over Christmas. My husband had symptoms last week and tested positive. I tested negative because immune systems are weird that way. But we are still quarantining, and it's left me in a weird headspace.
I'm not sure what makes most strategic sense for Raptor. He could:
1. Also ready a grenade, for a one-two punch with Danny.
2. Ready a bow or gun so that he can start taking people out as soon as the door opens.
3. Ready a katana so that he is ready for anyone that wants to cut us up.
And really, my concern is action economy switching weapons. If he is ready to open fire, would it be difficult for him to respond to a melee attacker? If he charges in ready for melee, will he get shot full of holes before he takes 3 steps? How does this generally work in this system?