4-13 Fortress of the Nail

Stuff

Tier 8-9. 4 Players.

A Level 8 Cleric and boar, Level 9 Dwarf Weapon Master, Level 6 Master of Many Styles Monk and a Level 9 Reach/Trip Fighter/Alchemist walk into an extra-dimensional prison.

All survived and the Paracountess is rescued. Barely. Great teamwork and utter selflessness in the face of certain death saved the day.

Fittingly enough this adventure bumped my PC to 40 fame which then earned my PC the titles of Knight Captain of the Andoran Eagle Knights. Amazing when things work out like that.

I think the guardian encounter at the end gives the GM a lot of leeway to challenge the PC's. They are not likely to see it coming since they will assume the nessian/adavagor is the BBEG. Freeing Zarta feels like the end of the scenario. In fact, when I ran this over the weekend, some of the players started packing their stuff at that point...SURPRISE!

If they had an easy time with the BBEG, you can always have the guardian use it's summoning power in the surprise round to increase the challenge of the encounter. OTOH, if the party was roughed up, perhaps even with a death or two, you can softball it ignoring the creature's SLA.

Had an awesome time playing this at Con of the North this past weekend. It was easily the highlight of the Con for me, for multiple reasons (played my favorite character, played alongside my brother visiting from out of state, the scenario was a great fit for both my and my brother's PCs, my GM was awesome despite lack of sleep, and the scenario itself was fantastic).

My only regret was that I couldn't convince the party's prone and heavily damaged ranger to delay until after my turn before standing up while threatened by the big fiery thing standing between us and Zarta. I could have guaranteed his ability to stand up safely, but failed to convince him, and he died on the AoO. If he'd delayed, we might have made it through with no casualties.

But other than that, my experience with Fortress of the Nail was full of win and awesome. :) Totally gonna give it a 4 or 5 star review later.

I reviewing this right now, and I'll admit, Edvagor looks like a TPK machine.

16d6 (averaging 48 damage if rolls are failed) on what I interpret as a readied action, followed by 1d8+20, 1d8+20, 1d6+20 and 1d8+20 (95 damage average) all to different people with a 15 foot reach if he uses Lunge! Plus, if the melee PC's try to approach them and flank, combat reflexes will tear them apart. In two rounds alone, this guy can dish out 143 damage with all average rolls!

I have a party that I'm predicting will be an APL of 7ish and I think I'm going to recommend they play down. Anyone else agree with this?

I have a party that I'm predicting will be an APL of 7ish and I think I'm going to recommend they play down. Anyone else agree with this?

With Season 4, I always recommend playing down unless the group APL is actually in the higher tier.

Knuckles Jarvis wrote:

I have a party that I'm predicting will be an APL of 7ish and I think I'm going to recommend they play down. Anyone else agree with this?

With Season 4, I always recommend playing down unless the group APL is actually in the higher tier.

Yeah, S4 has been a meat grinder. If my PC's don't play down, they're going to have a hard time even getting through his AC 26, DR10/Good and SR 23.

I reviewing this right now, and I'll admit, Edvagor looks like a TPK machine.

16d6 (averaging 48 damage if rolls are failed) on what I interpret as a readied action, followed by 1d8+20, 1d8+20, 1d6+20 and 1d8+20 (95 damage average) all to different people with a 15 foot reach if he uses Lunge! Plus, if the melee PC's try to approach them and flank, combat reflexes will tear them apart. In two rounds alone, this guy can dish out 143 damage with all average rolls!

I have a party that I'm predicting will be an APL of 7ish and I think I'm going to recommend they play down. Anyone else agree with this?

Yeah, Eddie is pretty nasty and don't under-estimate his Amorphous quality or that climb speed. Complete shutdown of all precision damage AND crit builds and being out of reach of everyone but the reach weapon wielders while still full attacking is pretty brutal.

Knuckles Jarvis wrote:

I reviewing this right now, and I'll admit, Edvagor looks like a TPK machine.

16d6 (averaging 48 damage if rolls are failed) on what I interpret as a readied action, followed by 1d8+20, 1d8+20, 1d6+20 and 1d8+20 (95 damage average) all to different people with a 15 foot reach if he uses Lunge! Plus, if the melee PC's try to approach them and flank, combat reflexes will tear them apart. In two rounds alone, this guy can dish out 143 damage with all average rolls!

I have a party that I'm predicting will be an APL of 7ish and I think I'm going to recommend they play down. Anyone else agree with this?

Yeah, Eddie is pretty nasty and don't under-estimate his Amorphous quality or that climb speed. Complete shutdown of all precision damage AND crit builds and being out of reach of everyone but the reach weapon wielders while still full attacking is pretty brutal.

Doesn't it have lunge, too? So it can actually get out of the reach of those weapons and merely have to deal with ranged attacks and spells. With nimble moves and an insane acrobatics score it can put itself in better position without being too concerned about taking hits, as well. It's a pretty solid bad guy for a solo.

Uh-oh. More PC's signed up today and now they're an APL of 8. Their highest AC is a 27 I believe, so Ed is going to have to roll a high of 7 to hit them with power attack. 2 if he doesn't power attack. Their level 5 Cleric is in trouble if she's in his range.

Four 9th-level PCs and a 5th-level cleric? If the big guns don't protect their little channelling buddy, shame on them.

Uh-oh. More PC's signed up today and now they're an APL of 8. Their highest AC is a 27 I believe, so Ed is going to have to roll a high of 7 to hit them with power attack. 2 if he doesn't power attack. Their level 5 Cleric is in trouble if she's in his range.

I hope you're remembering that Season 4 scenarios don't get +1 APL for having 6-7 PCs...

Knuckles Jarvis wrote:

Uh-oh. More PC's signed up today and now they're an APL of 8. Their highest AC is a 27 I believe, so Ed is going to have to roll a high of 7 to hit them with power attack. 2 if he doesn't power attack. Their level 5 Cleric is in trouble if she's in his range.

I hope you're remembering that Season 4 scenarios don't get +1 APL for having 6-7 PCs...

I did not know that. Is there somewhere it says that? I'm looking at the guide to play right now and I don't see it.

Jiggy wrote:

Knuckles Jarvis wrote:

Uh-oh. More PC's signed up today and now they're an APL of 8. Their highest AC is a 27 I believe, so Ed is going to have to roll a high of 7 to hit them with power attack. 2 if he doesn't power attack. Their level 5 Cleric is in trouble if she's in his range.

I hope you're remembering that Season 4 scenarios don't get +1 APL for having 6-7 PCs...

I did not know that. Is there somewhere it says that? I'm looking at the guide to play right now and I don't see it.

I can't access the Guide from here, but I'll try and find some sort of reference for you.

Basically, since tables were usually seating 6 people anyway, starting in Season 4 that was made the default assumption. So they upped the difficulty to account for 6 PCs instead of 4, and took away the +1 APL rule. This is also why the scenario you're prepping has sidebars showing changes to make to scale down the encounters if you only have 4 or fewer PCs.

Starting with Season 4, scenarios are designed for six characters and contain instructions on how to adjust the scenario for four-character parties. Do not add +1 to the APL for six and seven character parties in these scenarios.

edited: because I don't know left from right.

Ah, thanks Sammy T!

It doesn't explicitly say it, but it does say that only season 0-3 get the +1 APL for 6 or 7 players.

In order to determine which subtier a mixed-level group of PCs should play in, you must determine the group’s average party level (APL). Divide the total number of character levels by the number of characters in the party. You should always round to the nearest whole number.

Because scenarios in Seasons 0 to 3 were designed with four characters in mind, if there are six or seven players at the table, add +1 to the APL.

Thanks guys. Looks like their only APL 7, so they have the choice on which to play.

This is Season 4. There is no choice. ;)

(Just ran The Sanos Abduction. Playing up would have been a death sentence.)

One question on reading. It says that Ganden uses his detect chaos ability on the PCs. Isn't that going to raise eyebrows? When I ran Golemworks, the Paladin asked if he could detect evil on the LBEG, and I said that in a conversation casting it would be offensive. Just wondering if the PCs are going to notice him 'firing up' detect chaos.

Question my Hellknight PC asked: during this event, do Chelaxian PCs have access to our prestige points? If so, who is it that we're contacting?

True. Of course Ganden could use the ability as a move action to check a PC at a time, but during the conversation it doesn't work all that well unless Ganden would somehow incorporate the detect to the speech.

"Excuse me a moment as I must determine your intentions via magic before we can continue on your issues."

Question my Hellknight PC asked: during this event, do Chelaxian PCs have access to our prestige points? If so, who is it that we're contacting?

Probably the people that usually handle such requests. Remember that prestige points are not limited to just your faction. Half of them come from accomplishing Pathfinder missions.

I don't remember the GM saying anyone was using detect chaos on us when I played this, but at least I know now that I didn't waste that undetectable alignment I cast on the barbarian.

One question on reading. It says that Ganden uses his detect chaos ability on the PCs. Isn't that going to raise eyebrows? When I ran Golemworks, the Paladin asked if he could detect evil on the LBEG, and I said that in a conversation casting it would be offensive. Just wondering if the PCs are going to notice him 'firing up' detect chaos.

Spell-like abilities (Sp) "A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus. The user activates it mentally."

One question on reading. It says that Ganden uses his detect chaos ability on the PCs. Isn't that going to raise eyebrows? When I ran Golemworks, the Paladin asked if he could detect evil on the LBEG, and I said that in a conversation casting it would be offensive. Just wondering if the PCs are going to notice him 'firing up' detect chaos.

Edit: Jiggy has the correct answer.

Matthew Morris wrote:

One question on reading. It says that Ganden uses his detect chaos ability on the PCs. Isn't that going to raise eyebrows? When I ran Golemworks, the Paladin asked if he could detect evil on the LBEG, and I said that in a conversation casting it would be offensive. Just wondering if the PCs are going to notice him 'firing up' detect chaos.

Spell-like abilities (Sp) "A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus. The user activates it mentally."

But it does take an action. (and concentration) Not to rehash an old argument, but it does seem to draw attention he's doing *something*

How are people treating Edvagor's "attack on sight" command? I assume it will just initiate normal combat rather than a a surprise round since it doesn't say he makes any attempt to hide himself. I thought he might use his stealth if they didn't use a light source to hide in the dim light.

Also, would PC's without darkvision 60ft be able to act in the same round as Edvagor (assuming they're using a light source to increase the range to 40ft and that he's outside of that range)?

But it does take an action. (and concentration)

I haven't seen the ability in question, but how does it say it works?

For instance, the paladin's detect evil ability includes this:

A paladin can, as a move action, concentrate on a single item or individual within 60 feet and determine if it is evil, learning the strength of its aura as if having studied it for 3 rounds.

In a single move action, with no concentration and no 'components', a paladin knows whether or not you're evil.

The antipaladin's detect good ability contains the same language.

If this guy's ability works the same way, then he knows whether or not you're chaotic by the time you walk up to him.

You would still technically have a sense motive check vs the Hellknights bluff if he detects you as chaotic (as there would be a reaction from the hellknight however minor and thats what sense motive is designed for).

You would still technically have a sense motive check vs the Hellknights bluff if he detects you as chaotic (as there would be a reaction from the hellknight however minor and thats what sense motive is designed for).

The closest to this that I see in the rules for Sense Motive is a DC 20 "hunch" check, but that would just tell you that "something is up", and would also have nothing to do with anyone's Bluff skill.

Just played this over the weekend at TotalCon in MA. I had forgotten to get oil of align weapon for my boom stick (a musket master Gunslinger 1/myrdimarch Magus 7)… making the Eddie combat interesting for her. But we were able to manage to get enough charges of bless weapon cast (when silver didn't work), to take him down without much trouble. (We also had a sorc, a dawnflower bard, a rogue, a mystic theurge… and two others that I forget because it was the last slot of a 4 day con).

The diplomacy part was really quick, (partially because there enough Charisma on the table to drown the bard with assists). On an RP level, it did go smoother than the table I ran it for. Then again, two of us (me and the dawnflower) had run it so knew to push the RP as much as we could to not make it finish in 5 minutes.

There was a bit back and forth on "should we let them out" for the prisoners… which ended up being solved with someone's pseudodragon familiar asking the Sczarni if leaving his one guy behind was a faction mission, then passing that around to everyone (in particular so the Andoran would stop asking to free everyone.

That pseudodragon was *very* useful.

One thing that I realize is that while the main mission is to get Draleen out using the rules, most faction missions call for the PCs to break a law (stealing stuff, freeing a prisoner)… one notable exception to that being the Sczarni.

I approve of the fact that the Mafia representatives are potentially the only ones trying to *obey* the law ;-)

There was a bit back and forth on "should we let them out" for the prisoners… which ended up being solved with someone's pseudodragon familiar asking the Sczarni if leaving his one guy behind was a faction mission, then passing that around to everyone (in particular so the Andoran would stop asking to free everyone.

Huh? Andorans are not only freeing slaves now, they are freeing criminals?

Well you would notice the guards starign at you for 18 seconds.

Well you would notice the guards starign at you for 18 seconds.

Are you replying to the detect chaos thing? Because it's only going to take 18 seconds if it functions exactly like the spell. If it's like the paladin's ability, it takes less than 3 seconds.

The hellknight ability works exactly like the paladin one, so it would take about 12-18 seconds (2-3 rounds) to check the whole party for chaos (3 seconds per PC), I agree about the hunch thing (although I would allow the use of bluff by the hellknight/paladin to give a possibly higher DC by concealing thier reaction), although if they exceeded the DC20 (or the bluff check) by a sufficient amount I would let them know that they are fairly sure they had been alignment scanned.

Most PC's wouldnt even care about being scanned by the hellknight some would even believe its a standard security measure for the jail.

Ok one other question before this weekend...

I *might* have a player playing a Pre-gen. If she does (and I don't kill her) She's likely to put it towards a new character. So how does that interact with the boon? If the table plays up, does that mean she'd be a first level character with a 3k item? Or a first level character with a 1.5k item normally?

Edit. It also makes me wonder if I should apply the GM credit from the weekend to a new character, and what that would mean. :-)

Ok one other question before this weekend...

I *might* have a player playing a Pre-gen. If she does (and I don't kill her) She's likely to put it towards a new character. So how does that interact with the boon? If the table plays up, does that mean she'd be a first level character with a 3k item? Or a first level character with a 1.5k item normally?

By standard pregenning rules, that does seem to be the case. How very intriguing!

Mike, here'show I understand that would work.I expect to be over-ruled.

The personal item is a boon. Boons apply to the 1st-level PCs when the Chronicle sheet gets assigned to them. So yes, I think that would be a 1500 gp / 3000 gp item attached to that character. Score.

For GM credit, I would assume you'd apply the low subtier / high subtier rule that applies to gold treasure.

Mike, here'show I understand that would work.I expect to be over-ruled.

The personal item is a boon. Boons apply to the 1st-level PCs when the Chronicle sheet gets assigned to them. So yes, I think that would be a 1500 gp / 3000 gp item attached to that character. Score.

For GM credit, I would assume you'd apply the low subtier / high subtier rule that applies to gold treasure.

Though I'm far from the official ruling on this, if you are GM'ing this scenario and are going to apply this to a character that is not at least 5 yet, you will have to wait to apply that boon until you can apply the entire cert, not just the boon. This would be the same case as running (check Spoilers)

Mike, here'show I understand that would work.I expect to be over-ruled.

The personal item is a boon. Boons apply to the 1st-level PCs when the Chronicle sheet gets assigned to them. So yes, I think that would be a 1500 gp / 3000 gp item attached to that character. Score.

For GM credit, I would assume you'd apply the low subtier / high subtier rule that applies to gold treasure.

Yeah, I'd really like an official response on this considering I may be GMing for 3 pregens who would be applying it to new credit this Saturday...

Chris Mortika wrote:

Mike, here'show I understand that would work.I expect to be over-ruled.

The personal item is a boon. Boons apply to the 1st-level PCs when the Chronicle sheet gets assigned to them. So yes, I think that would be a 1500 gp / 3000 gp item attached to that character. Score.

For GM credit, I would assume you'd apply the low subtier / high subtier rule that applies to gold treasure.

Though I'm far from the official ruling on this, if you are GM'ing this scenario and are going to apply this to a character that is not at least 5 yet, you will have to wait to apply that boon until you can apply the entire cert, not just the boon. This would be the same case as running (check Spoilers)

and applying that to a level 1, which I'm sure is not intended.

** spoiler omitted **

Nathan, it is applying the whole cert, to a brand new level one character, for 500 GP and 1 XP. Especially since I just was looking at the Living Monolith, which if still allowed would be fun to do with a Lore Warden. (Or for really weirdness, some form of Magus now that Magical Knack is allowed).

If you are applying the chronicle to a brand new 1st level character and modifying the gold to 500gp. Then the boons apply to that 1st level character.

If however, you are applying the chronicle to an active character that is not yet high enough level to accept that chronicle, then you apply any rewards, including boons, from that chronicle at the time you are able to apply it to the character.

In other words, a 5th level character could not get a boon from a Tier 7-11 scenario until they reach 7th level (the level in which they apply the pregen played chronicle to the character).

If you are applying the chronicle to a brand new 1st level character and modifying the gold to 500gp. Then the boons apply to that 1st level character.

If however, you are applying the chronicle to an active character that is not yet high enough level to accept that chronicle, then you apply any rewards, including boons, from that chronicle at the time you are able to apply it to the character.

In other words, a 5th level character could not get a boon from a Tier 7-11 scenario until they reach 7th level (the level in which they apply the pregen played chronicle to the character).

Do you have a source?

Andrew Christian wrote:

If you are applying the chronicle to a brand new 1st level character and modifying the gold to 500gp. Then the boons apply to that 1st level character.

If however, you are applying the chronicle to an active character that is not yet high enough level to accept that chronicle, then you apply any rewards, including boons, from that chronicle at the time you are able to apply it to the character.

In other words, a 5th level character could not get a boon from a Tier 7-11 scenario until they reach 7th level (the level in which they apply the pregen played chronicle to the character).

Do you have a source?

I hear his source is the Minnesota--Anoka Venture Lieutenant.

I'd guess it's the Guide to Pathfinder Society Play. I don't have the most recent version on my phone, but I'm sure someone can check to see if boons are explicitly omitted from chronicles given to the players of pregen characters.

I'd frankly rather they weren't. I don't think we should provide any extra incentive to play a pregen over one's own character.

Just out of curiosity, is it possible to complete (with success) this scenario and not rescue Zarta? Or to not have her "make it back"?

Also, what is the insentive for, well pretty much anyone to want to go in and get her?

Just out of curiosity, is it possible to complete (with success) this scenario and not rescue Zarta? Or to not have her "make it back"?

Also, what is the insentive for, well pretty much anyone to want to go in and get her?

Because, I'm sure the next Chelaxian representative assigned will be far less incompetent.

Just out of curiosity, is it possible to complete (with success) this scenario and not rescue Zarta? Or to not have her "make it back"?

Also, what is the insentive for, well pretty much anyone to want to go in and get her?

Yeah, that's one thing I was kind of confused about. Considering...

there's too much motivation to actually rescue her. I was expecting somewhat of a moral dilemma here, kind of like Cyphermage Dilemma.