Plight of Northlight

Game Master Matt Adams 259

I'm not sure how old Kinnith is. My answer will probably depend on how much of a stickler the GM wants to be about age penalties.

Yes, Kinnith fought alongside the Lord of Northlight, presumably against the orcs.

I wasn't saying anyone should prepare endure elements in all of their slots (not even in one slot, by default). Just that it is a useful spell to have around. If we are traveling somewhere days away, that would be a case where preparing endure elements with more slots could really come in handy.

Fair enough. I misunderstood your original post on the topic and thought you were asking for us to do daily casting. I apologize if I seemed combative but the way I read it kinda got me going. :P

EDIT: Since the original discussion started in response to me asking if I should change my spells....I just made an assumption without looking at spell lists. Oops. Endure Elements isn't on the witch list anyways. Only our Druid (and later our bloodrager and rangers) can even learn it.

Same on not having decided on an age. I’ll say 18. Old enough to be considered an adult...especially in a pseudo-medieval setting. Young enough to not have any accomplishments as of yet.

As for her father: she knows nothing about him. She *thinks* it was a consensual relationship that was somehow related to her mother’s adventuring days. But she knows nothing for certain.

——

For cold weather she has her cold weather outfit and furs (30 gold total for +7 Fort against cold) and a tent. I think that is about all which can be reasonably expected.

No worries. I don't generally assume that spellcasters exist for my benefit. :) I'm used to playing lots and lots of organized play, where each character is somewhat of an island to themself, and every session you re-define the lines between cooperation and exploitation. Which is to say I'm used to treating spellcasters (and everyone else) as if they owe me nothing.

--

I'm actually thinking that, since Kinnith believes Livana is a witch, he's going to treat her with a healthy dose of fear and respect. Once the two are together on the same team, he's going to do his utmost to keep Livana safe and not question anything she says about magic or what she can do. He will basically assume that she *can* do anything unless told otherwise, but he will pretty much never *ask* her to do anything. She will be, to him, a fount of untold power and knowledge that he must not tamper with or anger. She is a Witch and you do not mess around with witches if you can avoid it. To that end, he'll also be very protective of her. It may take him a while to see her as an actual *person*.

Hopefully all of that is alright with you?

I'm partly inspired by thinking of how a hobbit might have felt adventuring with Gandalf. But then adding in the relative physical frailty of Livana relative to Kinnith, so he doesn't think of her as physically invulnerable, like Gandalf might seem relative to a hobbit. As well as Kinnith's all around backwardness.

I looked at Drawbacks. It's amazing how *bad* so many of them are. Some of them are good thematic fits but feel too close to being a crippling weakness for the party.

I am going to go with Stigmatized, to represent how much time Kinnith has spent living alone in the woods (and some of his very odd habits).

Now I just need to pick what trait I'm going to add!

EDIT: I settled on Armor Expert. Kinnith basically lives in his armor in the wild.

Don't worry Kinnith, however you treat Livana is alright with me. Interesting character interactions just make a game more fun! I'm honestly ok with anything in terms of PC relationships and opinions of each other as long as it doesn't negatively affect gameplay. Feel free to treat her however you want.

One of my best game experiences was with two characters who despised each other but had to work together. The players stayed friends so it all just added flavor. :D

Okay, good to know. There are lines I won't cross "on-camera" and there are other lines I simply refuse to cross at all. Everyone has those lines, but they're not all in the same places. Some people wouldn't appreciate their PC being treated as that much of an "other."

I'm excited about this campaign!

My only PERSONAL lines are PvP in a game unless it's an agreed upon campaign element, and descriptions of violence against children, sex, or torture which I prefer to "fade to black" as they could make people uncomfortable.

When it comes to playing with me, anything else is fair game as long as it fits the characters and the storyline. (I do not presume to speak for anyone else, of course)

I am also quite excited. This one has a lot of potential.

I may trade one of my traits out. Still considering it. I probably need the CL boost of Magical Knack more (once I start taking DD levels, anyway) than I do UMD as a class skill. If they weren’t both magic traits, it just hold off and pick up Magical Knack later with Additionally Traits, but alas.

My only PERSONAL lines are PvP in a game unless it's an agreed upon campaign element, and descriptions of violence against children, sex, or torture which I prefer to "fade to black" as they could make people uncomfortable.

Those are good restrictions to have "on" by default, unless specifically agreed otherwise.

I may trade one of my traits out. Still considering it. I probably need the CL boost of Magical Knack more (once I start taking DD levels, anyway) than I do UMD as a class skill. If they weren’t both magic traits, it just hold off and pick up Magical Knack later with Additionally Traits, but alas.

I have Use Magic Device a class skill, and I'll be throwing some ranks into it at later levels—just in case that affects your decision.

I agree with Bragi. As long as there are a couple people with UMD not everyone needs it. Since DD is one of those prestige classes that drops multiple levels of spellcasting Magical Knack seems more needed for your build.

Just friendly advice though, it's up to you :)

I’d second magical knack.

Also wondering, are you going for a natural attack build? DD gives claws and a bite, and the primary natural attacks offset BaB loss. But without a build path in mind I feel that the damage quickly becomes lacking (such as building into dragon style feat chain)

Yes, I am. I might also carry a reach weapon (I'm starting out with a longspear, for example), but I figured on the 3 natural attack routine (or eventually 6, once I can take the form of a dragon) being my mainstay. Granted, DR could be an issue that it wouldn't be with a two-handed power attack build, but all in all I think it'll be fine. Especially with the Rageshaper archetype's boosts to my natural attacks.

A reach weapon and natural attacks is fun. I have an character with claw attacks who carries a spear in another campaign. Since dropping a weapon is a free action you can attack at range and then if they close you get an AoO for them leaving your threatened area, and next round you can drop your spear and still get a full round attack for all your natural weapons.

So much fun.

Just don't forget to pick your weapon back up afterwards. I did that once and had to buy a new spear later when I realized I'd left it behind.

As a GM I always assume players pick their items back up when they drop them in combat. My GMs have always made the same assumption.

The exception would be if you run away from a combat after dropping something. Since you run away "in initiative" you would have to spend actions to pick stuff up (possibly provoking). But that is a rare occurrence.

I'm with you. This was one of those cases, we were in a building that ended up burned as well, so not only was it left behind it was effectively destroyed. It was dropped on one side of a room, combat moved us to the other side, and when initiative ended we went straight out the door in front of us due to the fire. It made sense.

Gameplay is opened!
I won't have the time to write a nice opening post til tomorrow, but I was at least able to dot and delete to get it on my campaign tab :)

Ditto. However, I accidentally dotted in using the wrong profile, and now it shows my main account as my character for the campaign.

This is mildly infuriating to me.

The GM can remove it for you. Meanwhile, dot in with the right character.

Was double checking my character today since gameplay is starting and noticed an interesting bit in the Season Witch archetype. Normally a witch learns her daily spells from an hour spent in communion with her familiar, but the Season Witch says:

"A season witch makes a commitment to embody the sacred symbolism of a season year round, and learns her spells through communion with nature, divining secrets from shapes in the clouds or the play of leaves on the wind."

I did insert some time spent with my familiar by the fire to do the 'normal' witch communion, and also ensured that I was out in the wild for at least an hour just in case. I'm curious on the GM reading on that quote...do you consider it merely fluff or should I ensure I commune with nature daily?

I ask as if we ever spend a lot of time in a fortress or dungeon or similar setting it might affect daily spells if I'm not careful.

Being underground is still in nature. And I’m sure even in a jail cell there’s a nature loophole to use

I know. I'm just curious as to GM opinion since it's nice to know if I have to make sure I have my familiar at my side daily or make sure that I have access to nature daily. Both are 100% doable just want to know which way to RP it :)

I think that communing with nature is very broad and there should usually be someway of doing it. Unless you get taken captive and your captors take care to put you in a completely iron cell or something, it should be fine. Keeping you from communing with nature, should be as difficult as separating you from your familiar.

@Matt Adams 259: I would very much appreciate it if my main account was removed from the list of active characters.

"A season witch makes a commitment to embody the sacred symbolism of a season year round, and learns her spells through communion with nature, divining secrets from shapes in the clouds or the play of leaves on the wind."

I think that's just fluff: learning spells is different from preparing spells, which is what you do, mechanically, when communing with your familiar. Most witch archetypes which mess with spell preparation replace the familiar class ability, while the ability you speak of modifies your patron. It's basically just saying that your patron is literally the season of winter instead of, say, some powerful fey creature.

Sorry folks! Last few days I've been dealing with a health related thing and I missed the opening of the game play thread.

GM, I should probably add a Cold-Weather Outfit to Kinnith's sheet. It would put him 1gp in the red. Is that okay or do I need to mess around with his other EQ?

According to the Core Rulebook (pg. 161), all characters begin play with one outfit valued at 10 gp or less, without having to pay for it.

I, uh... don't see any clothes in your inventory, so you should be able to pick up a cold-weather outfit.

GM, I should probably add a Cold-Weather Outfit to Kinnith's sheet. It would put him 1gp in the red. Is that okay or do I need to mess around with his other EQ?

I could lend/give you a gold if GM won't let you go in the red. Witches don't need much gear and I have extra cash lying around. Not sure how we'd RP that but we could always just hand-wave it :)

EDIT: Bragi ninja'd me and his suggestion might be easier, although some GMs don't allow the free clothing to include stuff with mechanical benefits like CW gear.

EDIT: Bragi ninja'd me and his suggestion might be easier, although some GMs don't allow the free clothing to include stuff with mechanical benefits like CW gear.

Fair point, though I don't think it's much of an issue balance-wise. I did assume I could pick a cold-weather outfit as my starting outfit, personally.

By the way, did we decide on whether Bragi and Livana are related or not? I'm fine either way, but it will impact how the former thinks of the latter.

We never did. Just know that if we are family it will very much change my actions around you due to my drawback (Family Ties)

"Your family is extremely important to you, and you feel disheartened when you can’t do what they ask.

Effect(s) When a family member makes a request of you, you must fulfill that request or take a –2 penalty on all Wisdom– and Charisma-based ability checks and skill checks until you either do what was requested or succeed at a DC 20 Will saving throw, which you can attempt once per day at the start of each day."

Ooh, I considered picking that. It's a good one. Now we have to be related. >:)

Let's say... second cousins (-ish)? So, at least one shared set of great-grandparents. That way, they don't necessarily have to know each other too well, but they're close enough on the family tree to know of each other, and that they're related, considering they're from such a small community.

Works for me :)
And btw the best part of that drawback is that it could REALLY become a drawback if the GM decides to have my mother the hag show up at some point

:O

Updated my post so you're no longer "some Ulfens". You are now "her cousins"

OH SH*T, I didn't even think about the hag angle. That's dope.

I don't really care about you guys starting with cold weather outfits. I think that it only makes sense given the environment.

Is it too late to make an adjustment to my character? I just remembered the Heart of the Fields alternate racial trait for humans:

Humans born in rural areas are used to hard labor. They gain a racial bonus equal to half their character level to any one Craft or Profession skill, and once per day they may ignore an effect that would cause them to become fatigued or exhausted. This racial trait replaces skilled.

Obviously, that'd be really helpful for a Bloodrager.

I'm just chilling near the hall until either the ones inside come out or Ingrid gets here.

I'm ready to rush off into adventure as soon as I get my info.

I hope everyone had a good Independence Day weekend. I apologize for not being active the last few days.

Thorfinn- go ahead and make your change

We might want to wait a bit before we run off. Thorfinn hasn't had a chance to post yet so we're 1 member short.

Sorry about that. Been busy.

no worries. It all popped off in only a couple hours real time, no way to expect everyone to be checking and immediately respond. I was actually pretty amazed 6 of us were all online at the same time to post.

Assuming we aren't in a hurry, I'll take 20 in Knowledge Arcana and Spellcraft (for a 24 in both, as it happens).

I don't believe you can: take 20 assumes you try again and again, failing until you succeed. Neither of those skills allow for retries, at least not without some change in circumstance (a new source of information for Knowledge skills, or the passing of time for most applications of Spellcraft).

Hmm. I was thinking that since they on't explicitly say that you can't take 10/20, you can (as, for example, UMD does). But then again, the fact that you can't retry does tend to suggest you can't, since taking 10/20 is often taken to represent retrying until you get it right. I'll role and see how it goes.

So if I got this right...

Reading a map correctly: you can take 10/20
Following a trail: you can’t (as you are actively doing it and can’t just keep trying at it if you fail)

Finding knowledge in a book: you can take 10/20
Remembering or knowing something: you can’t

That sounds about right for take 20. Take 20 is the one where you keep trying so it only applies to skills that don't have a failure condition.

Take 10 is allowed for all skills unless you are in a rushed environment or it explicitly says otherwise as it just means taking your time to avoid failure.

Take 10 is a routine procedure in a stress-free environment—it has nothing to do with time. This is what you do when driving to work in the morning.

Take 20 is a repeated series of attempts, also requiring a stress-free environment—it will take more time to ensure success. This is what you do when you've lost your keys and can't find them.

So if I got this right...

Reading a map correctly: you can take 10/20
Following a trail: you can’t (as you are actively doing it and can’t just keep trying at it if you fail)

Finding knowledge in a book: you can take 10/20
Remembering or knowing something: you can’t

There isn't a complete list for which skills you are allowed to take 10/20 for, and which you are not, so it's up to the GM in most instances. Whether a skill check can be retried is a good guideline, in my opinion, since it often outlines the repercussions of failure. Otherwise, it depends on the situation.

I would likely rule out taking 20 to read a map, at least out in the field: failure means that you get lost (as per the rules for retrying Survival checks). Taking 10 would probably be fine, if you're not stressed out. As for tracking, I'd allow both, assuming you're not under pressure: say you hear wolves howling in the distance—suddenly there's a repercussion to failure! Obviously, a time limit ("They'll kill the hostages if we don't get there in time!") will rule out both options.

(Taking 20 on Survival is kind of suboptimal, in any case, since it would take... what, 20 hours outdoors?)

Your latter examples sound about right, unless someone is holding a gun to your head while you study. :P

You can't take 20 on Knowledge checks. You can take 10 on Knowledge checks. However, I don't allow taking 10 on Knowledge checks in combat. If you roll less than a 10 in combat, you can shift to taking 10 on the checks after the fact, to simulate not being able to remember under pressure.

Since we have so many outdoors(wo)men in the group, should we have them doing different things while we travel? We could have one person guiding the group, another foraging for food (etc.), and the third keeping watch. Or maybe the third should be aiding the primary guide, while the less survival-oriented party members keep an eye out for danger?

Good thinking. Livana herself is more of a herbalist and a linguist. She's best at gathering herbs and talking to wild critters (Yes, I speak Aklo in case we ever want to talk at a Yeti instead of just hitting it, among other languages)

Crys (her fox) is actually more suited for stealth and perception than for tracking so he might be our best scout.

We both have decent but not overly high survival skills.

Speaking of which, I don't know if I missed it but is there actually snow on the ground or is it just cold? Some of our skills have bonuses in snow and I don't know if they are applying at the moment.

There's also the option of first pummeling the yetis into submission, and interrogating them afterwards. Either way, Aklo is certainly good to have.

OK for the nice GM (and ourselves) we should designate travel duties, dungeon marching order, and shifts for watch.

Travel duties: Livana would volunteer to be in the front of the main group, with Crys scouting ahead. Basically she's on scout duty but using her fox not herself.

Dungeon marching order: Not stealthy, not tanky, but short range on spells and 5-10' melee range so preferably near the front but neither scouting nor leading.

Watch shift: She doesn't need uninterrupted sleep for spell refresh so she could take any shift. Character wise her normal schedule is to wake up earlier than everyone and harvest, so she'd opt for last shift and spend her watch foraging for herbs around the camp area while both she and Crys watched for threats. She'd then do her familiar communion while the others woke up and got ready.

I'm happy to put together a formal list for these once we have input from some more folks.

EDIT: Thorfinn just made a good point about vision. Livana does have darkvision so even though she prefers early morning if we want her on mid shift she'll be happy to comply.