... Ou la Mort

Game Master The Wyrm Ouroboros

Thanks so much for having me, very excited to be here! I'm interested to see what us vigilantes will get up to as a side story to the main conspirators... But I will equally say, I wouldn't want things to get too cluttered or detract from the main story. If it's too much, I fully understand if we need to be dropped.

Big thanks to Lilli for adding spreadsheet info and such! As for the map, I've found, fittingly enough, a bank in Paris situated about where I envisioned Sylvain's main offices (address is 17, AV Hoche, 75008 Paris). Based on that, I'd set the bathhouse roughly at 214 rue du Faubourg Saint Honore, if the distances are scaling 1:1 between real life Paris and Isarn. If not, that estimation might be a bit off.

I'll also wrap up the final mundane purchases for Athanas shortly; it looks like I never totally finished that and put it in his profile.

For the Vigilantes in general:
Vigilantism -- the vigilante class in general, really -- not only has a certain 'split personality' element, but it has a strong streak of 'serial punishment' to it: the crimes being punished tend to be of a particular type. Indicate what type of criminal activity is most likely to draw your attention -- a mugging, a beating, a molestation/rape, a theft, etc.

If you have Renown, indicate what district that is in ('Le Carrousel' is not a single district); in this game, Renown gives you one district, Great Renown gives you the city, Incredible Renown gives you the country. If you don't actively have Renown, though, you will still 'be known' (just not exactly 'well known') and/or have a mild reputation in at least one district; in either case, you need to indicate what district your reputation is in, and what kind of reputation you have.

Vigilante Identity / Masked Persona
Yes, these are essentially the same thing, with the Vigilante's identity is a better / more intense one. However, to establish one of these -- and since you three Vigilantes have one from the get-go, you cannot just gloss it over -- you need five things: three distinct, unique physical elements, and two distinct behavioral elements.

Distinct and unique physical elements can be a specific flashy ring that always gets displayed, a cloak of a certain color, or a specific and signature weapon. Each of those elements should have three (3) points of specificity, so it isn't just 'a flashy ring', but 'a gold ring with a large ruby surrounded by small diamonds'. It isn't 'a red cloak', but 'a red cloak fading to orange on the bottom, worn off one shoulder, and swirled on entry and departure.' It isn't 'a masterwork dagger', but 'a fine dagger, silver-chased, with a wolf's-head pommel'.

The behavioral elements can be a matter of speech pattern, or a matter of attitude, positioning, whatever -- but again, these always need to be unusual (possibly dramatic) in some way. Le Demi-Masque always talks as if she's on stage, conversing through play excerpts (whether you recognize the play or not); the Midnight Hunter rarely (if ever!) comes down to street level, always keeping the height advantage if in any way possible. And perhaps La Malheur has never been known to speak, only appearing suddenly and looming threateningly but a few moments before the fatal accident occurs.

These elements are essentially what define you as someone specific, unique, and (perhaps most importantly) not your social identity. Even vigilantes (looking at you, Estelle) who can and do switch through many mundane disguises still has a specific, clearly-identifiable Vigilante identity; the behavioral elements alone are indicative of that identity, and the physical elements make that recognition distinct at a distance, without you even speaking. (Though, you know, 'Have at thee' has a whole thing to it, so ... :P :) )

Put these together for (and onto) your character, and between that and

Notes just on a quick look-over:
Athanas Sylvain
One of the things that gave me pause, and which I need you to address (and will not put up a gameplay thread for you until you do), is the total lack of equipment. I like the background, the attitudes, the differences between his social and his vigilante personas, the way he's set up, but ... the gear is important too. Get it done.

Eponine d'Ambreville
As a note, the manager for Le Manoir Ambreville can manage both Vintners and house-staff; as long as they're operating out of the same physical location, one manager can do both. You do, however, need to indicate what kind of manager (both type and gp-per-day-wise) each of them are, because that does have a distinct monetary drain for you.

Ref: Mill Room -- yeah, that's about right; good call.

Estelle Delsarte
Definitely need a vigilante name from you.

Welcome to Manush and to the vigilantes! Glad to have y’all.

Wow, this now looks like an even more amazing game to be a part of! Thanks for selecting me/us.

I deliberately didn't take the Renown talent because my initial plan was to have the vigilante part just be "not the d'Ambreville persona." Based on what you are saying, that won't work so I will give thought to fleshing the role out and picking crimes for punishment.

As for managers, let's make Agathe a level 3 and Christophe a level 2.

Also, I still haven't spent everything: I will add at least a secret passage to Le Manoir. I will get this updated asap, but I am on my way to work now so it won't be for a while.

Hello everyone, I am humbled and grateful to be a part of this game, and also excited that some of the other great submissions will be included. Really looking forward to playing with you all.

I am on the road today, travelling from Belgium back home to the Netherlands (I am not Dutch, just live there), so I'll do my best to post from my phone. The document in my profile has some details about the business and building, and I made a spreadsheet here. In terms of location, I was envisioning The Industrial District, but I will have to examine the map once I get home for a precise location.

To introduce myself a little, I am a 38-year old non-binary game developer who has been playing tabletop RPGs since before D&D had a third edition. I really enjoy the character building and collaborative storytelling aspects of it, and in more recent years I've been having a lot of fun playing flawed characters.

Welcome to the grinder, Manush. Looking forward to conspiring with you.

On a related note, I realize that I never specified where my own Renown applies. I think Vieille Ville would be the most appropriate, though I'd be ok with just restricting it to the legal community.

Greetings all. If I have to fight some of you at some point I apologise in advance. :)

The document in my profile has some details about the business and building, and I made a spreadsheet here. In terms of location, I was envisioning The Industrial District, but I will have to examine the map once I get home for a precise location.

I copied over the information from your spreadsheet. I will mention though that with your 3g/day manager you're looking at being 1g/day in the hole until you expand, unless you move some numbers around.

Hopefully this meets what you're looking for; if you need/want me to change or add anything just let me know.

Vigilante Name: Le Fantôme
Area of Renown: Sud Rivière
Criminal Activity: Muggings

Physical Elements:
Le Fantôme always wears a dark steel blue hooded cloak designed to keep the face in shadow. The cloak isn't one consistent color, but has subtle shading differences throughout. (It's this color pattern.) It reaches nearly to the ground and is deliberately frayed at the ends.

Le Fantôme's signature weapons are a pair of masterwork kukris. The blades are darkened so as not to risk catching any light. A few rescued victims swear that there is a feather pattern on the blades.

The only other easily disguishable item Le Fantôme wears is a pendant with a holy symbol of Tanagaar.

Behavioral Elements:
When Le Fantôme attacks, they nearly always drop down from above. The few times they haven't, they suddenly appeared directly behind their target.

Le Fantôme never speak to either their target or the victim. Once the target is dead, they begin walking off in an unhurried manner. If the victim pursues, they'll see Le Fantôme turn a corner and disappear.

(Mechanically, Le Fantôme takes full advantage of their extracts of invisibility and always has at least one on hand before starting a hunt.)

Randomness:
Estelle didn't come up with the name Le Fantôme. When she first started hunting she was very careful not to be seen. A few superstitious people speculated that the being behind the sudden disappearance of several gang members might well be the angry ghost of one of their victims. Estelle has run with that ever since, carefully orchestrating her appearance and behavior to make Le Fantôme seem as much like an actual phantom as possible.

I copied over the information from your spreadsheet. I will mention though that with your 3g/day manager you're looking at being 1g/day in the hole until you expand, unless you move some numbers around.

Thank you. I moved some numbers around to make the venture profitable. In terms of location, I would place it close to I4 in the Industrial District (Old Taldor Paper Company), near the western edge of the district (approximately along Barrière de Longchamp from the 1830 map of Paris). This way it's kinda halfway between the Farmer's Gate (important for supplies) and the Theater District, where most of her customers are.

Alright, I've updated the profile with equipment (apologies for not having it done sooner--I started at one point and never finished going over the little things), along with a new background spoiler specifically for the vigilante persona. If anything needs adjusted, added, or changed there, let me know!

To summarize, his area of renown and operation is the Sud Rivière, although he might occasionally venture into the Industrial District in search of his prey. He mainly targets thieves and robbers, but extortionists and their ilk are not safe from him, either, especially if they prey on common folk who can't defend themselves. He is known by his butcher's apron, patchwork executioner's hood, and hefty knife, as well as the vicious wounds on his victims and his rough, low voice (generally helped along by use of gravelly tonic), when he issues his threats and oaths.

As for a location for his buildings, I was looking at a spot near the Industrial District, but still in the Sud Rivière. Fittingly enough, I found a bank in a good location: the Banque Martin Maurel at 17, AV Hoche, 75008. Assuming the scale for distances is roughly the same in Isarn, I could see the bathhouse being where the Hotel Etoile Saint-Honore is in real life, at 214 rue du Faubourg Saint Honore. But honestly it can go anywhere fairly close to the main offices, and may not even really need or deserve its own map marker to differentiate. Your call, of course!

Most of my information has already been shared with GM, but just to annotate the specific Masked Persona requirements, I'll put a list here. If any of this confuses people when I speak of agents and such, the group has not yet been informed of the existence of La Tisserande. Although she will be my main persona and she will run the majority of my organizations, she is quite elusive and rarely appears herself. She does most of her interaction through four different 'agents' that each have a specific role. Due to this I got permission to modify the way the physical and behavioral features work so that she can have some features specific to her and some shared with her 'agents.' This allows her influence to be used by her 'agents' while interacting with people who haven't actually (and might never) meet the lady herself. I hope to create a kind of dread of meeting her, even inside my own organizations, since she almost never shows up personally unless there is an issue that needs to be "resolved".

Physical features:
1) White Mask (porcelain-like, smooth with only eye and nostril holes) worn under burgundy Veil (only La Tisserande)
2a) Scarves, attached (only La Tisserande)
..multiple scarves as major part of outfit worn tied or hanging loose; all grey, black, burgundy, and forest green
2b) Scarves, loose (worn by all)
..neck scarf: grey with burgundy and forest green threads tangled through it lengthwise and black iron tassels; signature weapon
..worn around waist: burgundy with grey, forest green, and black spiderweb patterns; pocketed and reinforced scarf
3) Signet Ring - Black iron band with grey iron face - spiderweb background with veiled face foreground
..La Tisserande wears four identical signets, one on each finger of her left hand
..Each agent wears one signet on their left hand (Nona=index, Decima=middle, Morta=ring, Philomena=pinkie)
4) Colors - grey, black, burgundy, and forest green
..La Tisserande wears skin tight cloth and leather with scarves tied or hanging loose everywhere (all four colors)
..Nona wears forest green jacket and petticoat with white blouse and brown leather vest
..Decima wears gowns with burgundy as the main color, including corset and formal hat
..Morta wears full body black leather armor (in her case the neck scarf is worn concealing her lower face not just around neck)
..Philomena wears light grey blouse and breeches under her armor, dark grey coat over her armor

Behavioral features:
1) La Tisserande always appears where she needs to be; uses disguise, stealth, or magic to not be seen arriving. If she is unable to simply appear inside a closed office or other restricted enclosed area, she will first appear as close as possible, such as immediately outside the entrance.
2) Vocal and Conversational habits:
..La Tisserande speaks in a voice that sounds like a whisper at normal volume; speaks little and only of business.
..Each agent has their own voice and habits, but when speaking about business switches to a whisper.
3) Posture and demeanor:
..La Tisserande never sits in view of anyone but her agents or confidantes. She remains standing straight and still when not walking.
..Each agent has their own demeanor, but will always stand when discussing business.

EDIT: For the other players, I realize that if you wander through Discord, other places, or even my profile, you will learn that Lilli, Mama, La Tisserande, Nona, Decima, and Morta are all different disguises or roles for the same person with Lilli (and Mama) as the "mundane persona" and La Tisserande (and three agents) as the "masked persona". The fourth agent Philomena is a manager who will become my cohort when I take Leadership at level 7.
All that Lilli is planning on sharing with the PCs is that she is doing business under the name La Tisserande; at least for now they won't be officially informed that the other people are actually her, so I hope for a bit of separation of player and character knowledge there.

@Lilli - thanks muchly for putting all of our details into the spreadsheet! Saved me a lot of time :)

@GM TWO - I have thoughts. Oh yes, I have thoughts. Spoilered for purposes of keeping the thread de-cluttered, but anyone is free to read.

About to head off to work again but will post more later and update equipment, buildings, organisations and so on.

Question to the Conspirators: what are our opinions on Vigilantes? What with there being a number of canonical ones and a few new ones joining us we probably need a 'group policy' on the matter. :)

Lucien has no issues with them at the moment. They're doing what they see as right and trying to help - that's commendable. But the goal of the conspiracy, at least as he sees it, is to create a Galt where they won't be needed. If they don't accept that - then there might be trouble.

Jerome's opinion? Fools, the lot of them. But potentially very useful, if we can point them at the correct targets.

Lilli's opinion? They are amusing, as long as they stay our of her business. She's a bit worried that they might not see the big picture and get involved in situations that are different than they seem to be, which could mess up her (our) work.

Jerome's opinion? Fools, the lot of them. But potentially very useful, if we can point them at the correct targets.

Is there anyone that Jerome knows and doesn't apply that description to?

Jerome Lemaitre wrote:

Jerome's opinion? Fools, the lot of them. But potentially very useful, if we can point them at the correct targets.

Is there anyone that Jerome knows and doesn't apply that description to?

Oh, sure. Plenty of useless people all around.

From what I've read of the game, I'd imagine that your individual opinions are your own, but Androk will set group policy (in consulation, of course - or at least the appearance thereof).

Moreover, I would imagine the policy itself varies from one Vigilante to the next. I doubt very much there's a "one size fits all" approach - Androk strikes me as too subtle for that.

Androk is not in charge quite as much as you might think. Lilli will start having problems if he were to have the gall to set policies or make determinations on things outside of his project. The conspiracy is an important thing, and Lilli is invested in it, but it is only one ball of many she has in the air. How to deal with vigilantes is, at least to her, a separate issue and is outside of his purview unless they get directly involved in or opposed to the conspiracy itself.

To the Vigilantes:
Presuming the GM can handle the increased workload (once the last of the setup is done, as it were), in the next 2-3 levels you actually will be brought into the Conspiracy; while it is true that the Criminal Mastermind is the initial/intended 'controller' (per se) for the lower-class folk, if this experiment pans out Lilli/Lily/La Tisserande is going to become more and more heavily involved in seizing control of the underworld. And realistically, the ordinary person will have more contact with 'their employer' than with a 'criminal organization'.

Which means, in effect, that as things develop, someone will make contact with the Vigilantes and, with good RP and a bit of understanding of their aberrant psychologies, be able to bring them into the Conspiracy. At which point they become additional 'Influential Merchants'.

Note that having an actual 'poof I disappear' hideout is not a necessity for a Vigilante; the vigilante identity itself is a 'poof I disappear' vanishing trick.

Regarding the vigilante identity etc., you might note that the three of you now appear on the Galt Gazette's Vigilantes page; take a look at the blurbs on the other pages (essentially an outsider's view of their history and activities) and come up with a short one for me. And please -- separate it from the rest of your post (if you put in other stuff) so that I can tell it apart. ;)

The Conspiracy's View
The opinion of the Conspiracy -- or rather of Androk, as the other members of the Conspiracy are people with their own opinions -- is that 'it depends on the vigilante'. Regarding vigilantism in general, however, Androp feels that at the conspiracy's conclusion, the activities of the vigilantes will hopefully end as a matter of those individuals no longer seeing a need for their particular brand(s) of justice -- that the government will be sufficient to the needs of the people and the country that the various vigilantes don't feel they have to go out and protect the citizenry. Some vigilantes might be able to be absorbed into the government itself, putting the skills they've developed to less dramatic work; other vigilantes, like Le Malheur, will need to be put down With Prejudice like the rabid animals they are.

So it does boil down to 'it depends'. Most of the Conspirators themselves are, after all, going to be turning into something very close to Vigilantes themselves ...

Three out of four organizations have been added to the Gazette. As soon as I know which district(s) Eponine's winery and piers are located in I can get those added as well. I've been writing a short-ish entry for each place based on what is in your profiles. If you'd like it modified write me up a short blurb and I'll update. Much like the Vigilante pages, it's an outsider's knowledge of your location; if you'd like it changed write something up similar to what you see on the descriptions of the other locations

And on that note, it is time for work, so .... in the words of GM TWO:

'poof I disappear'

The opinion of the Conspiracy -- or rather of Androk, as the other members of the Conspiracy are people with their own opinions -- is that 'it depends on the vigilante'.

This is pretty much Dolorès' opinion as well. She has a more favorable view of those ones that arose to help their fellow citizens, of course, and sees the rest as products of Galt's political state. As for bringing any of them into the conspiracy... Diversity of tactics is important, though she hopes they won't be necessary once the conspiracy succeeds.

PLAYER DESCRIPTION
People in the Sud Rivière debate over whether the mysterious creature known as Le Fantôme is a vigilante or an actual phantom. A decade or so after the beginning of the Red Revolution some of the more violent gang members in the area started disappearing. Rumors claimed that the gangs were being hunted by the angry ghost of one of their victims.

The first actual sighting came from a young woman a few years later. She had been beaten, mugged, and was in danger of being killed when someone dropped on top of her attacker. The next thing she knew, the thug was dead and a swirling blue-grey cloak was fading into the distance. She told everyone that she had been saved by the ghost, Le Fantôme, and the name persisted.

Whoever or whatever Le Fantôme is, they show no mercy once they've selected a target. To date no one has survived a close encounter with those dark blades.

PURVEW
Sud Rivière

For what it's worth, Athanas is torn about his activities, and would very much like for there to be a Galt where Le Boucher doesn't exist. I'll leave his backstory alone for now, even though the last section of the writing doesn't apply just yet--unless he changes drastically as a character in his first chapters, I think it'll still fit very nicely.

I also want to note that Le Boucher is apparently a bit different from my fellow new vigilantes! He neither appears as if from thin air, nor does he disappear into it; even if he smells like musty earth, the man is quite mundane in his activities. He either steps out of darkness or drops from a low rooftop, oftentimes throwing knives before moving in close, and he leaves the same way: on foot and into darkness. He also isn't silent when he fights, and while he usually doesn't speak much with the people he rescues--thanks to his cultivated persona, they're generally almost as afraid of him as the criminals--he doesn't avoid speech when it comes to it.

EDIT: Something else comes to my attention: Athanas and Estelle are both Forlorn elves who live in the Sud Rivière, both have Renown there in fact, and are both merchants (even dealing in potentially similar fields--Athanas has probably purchased alchemical supplies and remedies from Versatile Vials to supplement his own business in the past). I feel that they should definitely know one another at least in passing; would you like them to have more of a relationship at game start, Estelle? I imagine two Forlorn would find a few things in common that they wouldn't have with the average person, even if Athanas is, by my reckoning, at least fifty-odd years older than Estelle is.

Whatever the relation is, I definitely think it'd be confined to their social identities. I think both of us are too invested in the secrecy of our vigilantism to share that without a great deal of trust... and Athanas is paranoid to boot, so he'd rather not share at all unless his hand is forced or he knows someone very well (ideally to the point of mutual dark secrets being shared, e.g., they're also a vigilante, or engaged in a conspiracy to topple the government).

La Marquise

In a normal city, the town guard keep the streets safe for ordinary folk. Isarn hasn't been that city for longer than most people can remember. About three years ago, someone clearly decided to do something about it: people have reported being rescued from muggings, harassment, or worse, by a woman with night-black hair and silver braids, some sort of invisibility cloak pinned with a red gem, and a haze of air wrapped around her fists, as if she controls the night itself. Beneath the cloak, some have sworn they glimpsed the insignia and armour of the city guard - that, together with her imperious way of speaking at the start of a fight, has led people to think she may be an officer with links to the old aristocracy, although there are no such personnel that match the descriptions offered. It is not known who dubbed her as "La Marquise" but the name has stuck.

Most antagonists survive their encounters with La Marquise, albeit bloodied and bruised; but some more violent criminals have met their ends at the edge of the knives she carries for those situations when people prove... disinclined to cease and desist from their misdemeanours.

Your Vigilante blurbs have been added to the Gazette. I left La Marquise's purview "Unknown" since I think I remember you mentioning wanting to act Isarn-wide. You might want to check with GM on that one, I'm not sure if he'll want you to narrow it down a bit.

Thanks Lilli! Your work on this is outstanding :)

(I do hope our characters don't end up in conflict. That would be such shame when there's profit to be made)

OK, I have trimmed back my organisations slightly (if I'm running independently rather than part of a group I need a little more in terms of personal supplies to be properly self-sufficient) and added a secret room from Le Manoir to the Catacombs.

Also, I'm making her alignment Neutral rather than Good - having to be self-sufficient has made her a little more ruthless than she might have been otherwise.

Still not quite ready with the equipment and gear; it'll take me another day or so. Hope that's not delaying things.

Thanks Lilli! Your work on this is outstanding :)

(I do hope our characters don't end up in conflict. That would be such shame when there's profit to be made)

There is no such thing as conflict with La Tisserande. There are only three options:

1) Not involved with La Tisserande
2) Working for La Tisserande (or the much smaller subset 'Working with La Tisserande')
3) Dead (or soon to be)

(Just kidding. We might be able to figure out a fourth category for you. Just be careful about working too much in the Catacombs or I might come looking for you. I'm moving my renown area to the underground and building influence there first and foremost.)

I plan on getting the Vigilantes up on the weekend. Manush I plan on getting started somewhat earlier, hopefully within the next couple of days.

To that effect, working on contacting Manush on the Discord to work a few things out. Note that I'm usually on during the evenings.

And everyone, don't be intimidated by the other players -- particularly that psychopath overenthusiastic Lilli. I won't say that the various personalities (i.e. the PCs) don't have their own goals and intentions and all, but Androk is the GM's way of keeping things coherent and more-or-less on-course. He's the control rod, the gatekeeper, the one who is keeping a gimlet eye on everyone else to make sure they don't go wild. Up until the new batch, he was also 9 points higher on Int than the next highest people; there's a reason I'm a) using him in particular, and b) modeling him as someone on the scale of Batman and/or Sherlock Holmes.

And realize/remember that while social interactions are based off Charisma, plans and their successful execution will often be based off Intelligence.

Note, btw, that if you have no Renown talent, having no particular area you roam is not especially a disadvantage, but (when it comes down to it) you're not really particularly recognizeable by anyone, because you don't appear anywhere often enough to really get talked about. If you do have Renown, however, you cannot until 7th level take the entire city; you have to start with one specific District as your area of Renown.

Addendum -- remember that the first actual vigilante (the Red Raven) appeared only about 15 years ago. While you may have been 'active' before then (e.g. as a 'private citizen'), the whole 'Batman / Zorro / Mystery Man' thing didn't get started until the Cabinet of Skulls.

Aspirant -- nothing -- as temporarily assigned. Officer designate/in training, is only assigned troops for limited missions, usually about 5.

Sous-lieutenant ('sub-lieutenant', 2nd Lt.) -- squad -- 10-15 troops.
Lieutenant (1st Lt.) -- platoon -- 40-60 troops.
Capitaine (Captain) -- company (short) -- 2-3 platoons; 40-120 troops.
Commandant (Major) -- company (long) -- 3-5 platoons; 120-200 troops.
Lieutenant-Colonel -- Battalion -- 3-5 companies; 300-800 troops.
Colonel -- Regiment -- 2-3 battalions; 1000-3000 troops.
Général de brigade ("brigade general", i.e. Brigadier general) -- Brigade -- 3-5 battalions (or 2 regiments), 2500-5500 troops.
Général de division ("division general", i.e. Major general) -- Division -- 2-5 brigades, 10,000-25,000 troops.
Général de corps d'armée ("corps general", i.e. Lieutenant general) -- Corps -- 2-4 divisions, 30,000-50,000 troops.
Général d'armée ("army general") -- Army -- 2-10 corps, 100-300 thousand troops.

So...

Then each of us will have 3-4 sub-lieutenants, and probably the same number of sergeants depending on the size of our command. (I imagine a kind of 'buddy system' where each (inexperienced) junior officer has an (experienced) sergeant to help them not be complete morons.)

Presumably (going by the numbers quoted above) I have one of the largest platoons in the Fort? Or are we simply a large command for a Captain (you've got them having about 120 men - I have 60 alone so four other lieutenants would send us firmly into 'Major' territory at around 180 men or more)? Or is our commanding officer simply a major with a 'long' company? Sorry - just trying to get my immediate chain of command fixed in my head.

Which means, in effect, that as things develop, someone will make contact with the Vigilantes and, with good RP and a bit of understanding of their aberrant psychologies, be able to bring them into the Conspiracy.

Only the aberrant psychology has strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge who is an aberrant psychology.

There is no such thing as conflict with La Tisserande. There are only three options:

1) Not involved with La Tisserande
2) Working for La Tisserande (or the much smaller subset 'Working with La Tisserande')
3) Dead (or soon to be)

(Just kidding. We might be able to figure out a fourth category for you. Just be careful about working too much in the Catacombs or I might come looking for you.)

A wizard always has a fourth option, Frodo Baggins such as "Reanimated La Tissereande as her personal undead minion."

(I kid, of course. Eponine doesn't have any necromantic capabilities.)

As for the Catacombs, fear not: La Marquise is focused on helping "ordinary people," and there are precious few of those to be found underground. She merely uses the Catacombs as a way of getting around town without drawing attention, and as an escape route for avoiding possible pursuit.

And realize/remember that while social interactions are based off Charisma, plans and their successful execution will often be based off Intelligence.

Works for me! :)

Note, btw, that if you have no Renown talent, having no particular area you roam is not especially a disadvantage, but (when it comes down to it) you're not really particularly recognizeable by anyone, because you don't appear anywhere often enough to really get talked about.

That is fine, too. As a lone agent, Eponine is focused on not attracting undue attention in either persona. Calculated risk is very much her thing.

And everyone, don't be intimidated by the other players -- particularly that psychopath overenthusiastic Lilli. I won't say that the various personalities (i.e. the PCs) don't have their own goals and intentions and all, but Androk is the GM's way of keeping things coherent and more-or-less on-course. He's the control rod, the gatekeeper, the one who is keeping a gimlet eye on everyone else to make sure they don't go wild.

Pshaw, Androk thinks he can keep me under control?

I jest. Although I might talk a lot of crap, and Lilli does have quite a large number of personal interests, she sees the conspiracy as her most important project. She wouldn't do anything for her own personal gain that would jeopardize one of her fellow conspirators or the plan as a whole.

She is also the type to always try to find a manipulative peaceful solution before resorting to violence, although she isn't adverse to violence if it's needed. Even currently unknown vigilantes needn't worry about conflict unless they make a direct move against her people or show up waving weapons in her face.

As for the Catacombs, fear not: La Marquise is focused on helping "ordinary people," and there are precious few of those to be found underground.

You might be surprised to find out how many "ordinary people" there actually are underground. From what I understand although there is a large criminal element, there are also quite a few displaced people who just can't afford to live above ground. It's just as much an area of poor, destitute, and forgotten people as it is a den of thieves. This is assuming I understand GM TWO's intent of the area correctly.

@GM TWO: There's one thing I'm a bit confused about with ABP. It is a given that items that provide only an attribute increase don't exist. Similarly, named weapons and armor have their price reduced to remove their bonus and leave only the special ability.

The question I have is mixed magic items, that provide both an attribute bonus and other benefits as well (for example: Dance of Seven Veils.) I did some Hero Lab experimentation and even with the ABP rules in effect, this item did not have a reduced price and the attribute bonuses still applied. Curious about this I went to the Googles and found many opinions on this, ranging from "reduce the price accordingly" to "the item still gives the bonus", to "remove those items from your game altogether", with the most common answer being "RAW has no official determination on those types of items so ask your GM."

You might be surprised to find out how many "ordinary people" there actually are underground. From what I understand although there is a large criminal element, there are also quite a few displaced people who just can't afford to live above ground. It's just as much an area of poor, destitute, and forgotten people as it is a den of thieves. This is assuming I understand GM TWO's intent of the area correctly.

You're right, I hadn't appreciated that; although in some ways, that fact throws into sharp relief the NG Eponine who would have spent the last 3 years working with the Good-inclined Androk, the not-actually-evil Lilli, and the actually-Good Lucien & Dolorès (oh, yeah, plus some lawyer). That Eponine probably would have regarded the downtrodden souls in the Catacombs with an active compassion.

However, those sliding doors have closed, and Eponine is a lone agent with limited resources. She might spare a thought for the downtrodden Sans-culottes but her time and attention is focused on aiding and abetting productive (taxpaying) citizens, in order to keep them productive and taxpaying. Hopefully if her efforts bear fruit then the lot of the lower classes will improve, too, in a "rising tide lifts all boats" kind of way.

On your other points... I actually think Lilli and Eponine are quite similar in some ways: moulded by early formative (and adverse) experiences, using what they have (wits and people skills) to get by and get ahead, and a marked preference for talk over violence, while not flinching if it comes to it.

Whether that means they'd get on is another matter ;)

Right, I think I am now good to go. Organisations and Buildings are now finalised (thanks again Lilli for porting these over to the spreadsheet!), and character sheet is updated with gear. I have decided that Christophe and Agathe are both 3rd level managers since it's clear I can afford that.

I've made a couple of substantive changes based on her new role as a lone Vigilante. Firstly, I've included more spells in her spellbook (using her Favoured Class bonus).

Secondly, I've swapped out a Vigilante Talent: I originally took both Fist of the Avenger and Lethal Grace, but as I have fleshed out the Vigilante persona (rather than it simply being not-d'Ambreville, as it was previously) it's clear that she is known to use her fists and rely on the darkness as her ally.

In light of this, I have dropped the Lethal Grace talent and instead taken the Shadow's Sight talent as I think it corresponds better to the identity she now has.

I hope that's acceptable.

EDIT: I keep forgetting building placement. I've looked at the map of Isarn and Le Manoir is located in the Wine District, off the Rue de Pain and away from Caydog territory/Brewer Street, closer to the Guild des Vignerons (W2).

Le Convoi has its HQ and docks located in the Industrial District, where the river passes through and the district abuts both the Nord Riviere and Sud Riviere.

So...
Fort de l'Ouest
Captain: ???
Lieutenants: Fesch, Dubois, ???, ???

Then each of us will have 3-4 sub-lieutenants, and probably the same number of sergeants depending on the size of our command. (I imagine a kind of 'buddy system' where each (inexperienced) junior officer has an (experienced) sergeant to help them not be complete morons.)

Presumably (going by the numbers quoted above) I have one of the largest platoons in the Fort? Or are we simply a large command for a Captain (you've got them having about 120 men - I have 60 alone so four other lieutenants would send us firmly into 'Major' territory at around 180 men or more)? Or is our commanding officer simply a major with a 'long' company? Sorry - just trying to get my immediate chain of command fixed in my head.

'sokay. And we'll stick with Humboldt, sure. (Picked out of a hat, hey.)

In regards to the numbers and the subordinates (sub-lieutenants for the nonce), don't get too firmly attached. A major, even a colonel, may have a much smaller (but often much more elite) command; ranks are also not always only one-step separations. As well, this is not a modern army, and the group sizes above are general ranges; specifics can vary widely.

With Dubois likely having between 'some' and 'many' fewer troops than you (because loyalty can result in people actively working to get into or stay in a command, resulting in a group being bigger than it's supposed to be -- and remember that non-soldiery doesn't count towards your command size), the last two lieutenants are likely sous-lieutenants, splitting the last troops between them. They would be, in effect, be directly under Humboldt's wing for one reason or another (patronage being a thing), and learning their trade under his direction and by stealing glances your way.

So.

Fort de l'Ouest

Capitaine H. Humboldt, commanding
Lt. L. Fesch, 9/3, 55 effectives.
Lt. A. Dubois, 8/3, 40 effectives.
SLt. K. Verdun, 5/3, 15 effectives.
SLt. E. Chevrolet, 2/3, 15 effectives.

Additional individuals inside fort: approx. 30.

Capitaine Henri Humboldt is a human male, approx. 45 years old. Wife and 3 children (ages 6, 9, and 10) live in the fort. SLt. Katarina Verdun is a human female, 18 years old, rumored (but only rumored) to be the captain's mistress. SLt. Émeric Chevrolet is a human male, 17 years old, the son of a friend of Humboldt.

Stuff

So my direct subordinates will be sergeants and corporals rather than 2nd lieutenants? That's fine by me. :)

Dubois is senior Lieutenant then by virtue of commission date so she'd take over temporarily if anything happens to Humboldt and, in all the ways that matters, outranks me. Excellent.

Thanks for clearing this up! Now I have a nice small arena to practise politics in!

@GM TWO: After our long back and forth yesterday I did a lot of thinking about my plan, and I am making some changes in how I initially approach it. Some of the first steps present some mechanics questions in terms of the Renown talent. I'm asking here instead of Discord as other players might have similar questions as the game progresses.

I currently have two areas of renown, from two sources:
Galtan Agitator Rogue has Reputation. It functions as the renown vigilante social talent and in addition increases starting influence and reputation for contacts. It has some strange wording about only applying to one identity unless she also has the renown social talent.

The Claimed Turf Rogue talent gives her the Renown social talent, which should negate the 'one identity' clause in Reputation. This also opens up the ability to take other Vigilante talents like Safe House, which Reputation did not. It does state that she is always considered to be in her social identity.

The questions arise when we apply Masked Personas (MPs). There does not seem to be any rulings about how these things apply to MPs. Would the renown ability apply to both of the personas? I assume it does not apply to both, but it never hurts to ask.
If not, since they are first level abilities and talents it seems that they would apply to the initial character, but is it possible to have it apply to the MP?

In my case, I would like to have renown apply to Tiss as she will be doing the vast majority of the activities to which the talent provides benefits. There are two different situations I would like to ask about.

Firstly, I will very shortly be going through the motions to move one of my renown areas, using the method of spending a week of "at least 4 hours each day socializing and making contacts". Would doing these activities as Tiss as opposed to as Lilli also serve to swap the renown over to the other persona while making the change of Districts?

Secondly, I would potentially want to swap the persona that gets the renown benefits in my other District as well, but without changing the area of effect. What would be the method for doing that, if it is even possible?

@Athanas Sylvain: Sorry, I had totally missed your edit asking about relationships.

From the looks of it we're actually on opposite sides of the city despite being in the same district; Versatile Vials is near the Foreign Quarter while Athanas Sylvain's office is near the Industrial Quarter. That being said, it does make sense for us to know each other. As you mentioned you've probably bought supplies from Versatile Vials, and Estelle's probably sent a few customers to your office when they needed more than alchemical remedies.

For the relationship, want to start somewhere between acquaintances and friends? Not so close we're randomly dropping in on each other for tea, but there's at least the beginnings of a bond there. (Which can be further fleshed out as the game progresses.)

So my direct subordinates will be sergeants and corporals rather than 2nd lieutenants? That's fine by me. :)

This is actually up to you; you have 40 1st-level soldiers, and 15 3rd-level elite soldiers; what your 'noncom:officer' balance happens to be is up to you, but what officers you would have under you would be restricted to sub-lieutenants and aspirants/cadets. (Let's go with cadet; 'aspirant' sounds more like a religious thing.)

What level represents those corporals, sergeants, cadets, and sub-lieutenants is also up to you, in part because it's a roleplaying thing; you can keep it in your head, put it down on a sheet, but when push comes to shove, it's not likely to have dice-level meaning in the game with anything more than rarity. Is that sub-lieutenant actually only 1st level, because he's just learning? Is the cadet 3rd level, because though he's experienced, he's only recently bought himself into the Army? All in the RP, all up to you. If you DO jot it down, along with a brief blurb or two, it'll give me some flexibility in how I RP your command, but again, that's up to you. :)

Dubois is senior Lieutenant then by virtue of commission date so she'd take over temporarily if anything happens to Humboldt (etc.)

Technically correct, yes. Functionally ... well, you won't rise like a rocket without seizing the day from time to time.

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I currently have two areas of renown, from two sources:

Galtan Agitator Rogue has Reputation. It functions as the renown vigilante social talent and in addition increases starting influence and reputation for contacts. It has some strange wording about only applying to one identity unless she also has the renown social talent.

The Claimed Turf Rogue talent gives her the Renown social talent, which should negate the 'one identity' clause in Reputation. This also opens up the ability to take other Vigilante talents like Safe House, which Reputation did not. It does state that she is always considered to be in her social identity.

The questions arise when we apply Masked Personas (MPs). There does not seem to be any rulings about how these things apply to MPs. Would the renown ability apply to both of the personas? (I assume it does not apply to both, but it never hurts to ask.) If not, since they are first level abilities and talents it seems that they would apply to the initial character, but is it possible to have it apply to the MP?

Yeah, this appears to have some very funky interactions, but they're both very specific.

-----------
1: Reputation (Galtan Agitator). Functionally, this applies the 'social identity' portion of Renown to the character, and only to the character's original self, i.e. the 'social' identity: Identity 1. The baseline identity will, when inside their area of fame/influence/reputation, thus always have an improved initial attitude towards them so long as they would have started out as Indifferent.

The 'If you have another identity, you don't get any benefits unless you took Renown in that class too' functionally means that even if you had a Masked Persona (MP), your MP(s) would not gain the 'other identity' bonus -- +4 circumstance to Intimidate -- from this ability. You have to gain the bonus from actually acquiring the Renown ability, or something similar which allows for gaining the bonus.

2: Claimed Turf (Rogue Talent). The read on this is, for practical purposes, identical to that of the Galtan Agitator's Reputation -- 'you get the social talent section, but not the vigilante section' -- and in this case you gain access to Vigilante-class social talents that use Renown, but cannot use any such talent (or any portion of a talent) that applies to the vigilante identity. Again, this ability specifically disallows the 'Vigilante identity' side.

Consequently, these overlap almost completely, with the exception that Claimed Turf gives you access to other Vigilante social talents.
-----------

So now you're likely wondering, 'what does this mean in regards to Masked Personas?' Basically it means that even though you may have one (or sixty) different Masked Personas, there are still reasons to take the Vigilante class -- you would get access to all the cool Vigilante-side elements like the bonus to Intimidation (for that identity) from Renown.

In my case, I would like to have renown apply to Tiss as she will be doing the vast majority of the activities to which the talent provides benefits. There are two different situations I would like to ask about.

Firstly, I will very shortly be going through the motions to move one of my renown areas, using the method of spending a week of "at least 4 hours each day socializing and making contacts". Would doing these activities as Tiss as opposed to as Lilli also serve to swap the renown over to the other persona while making the change of Districts?

Secondly, I would potentially want to swap the persona that gets the renown benefits in my other District as well, but without changing the area of effect. What would be the method for doing that, if it is even possible?

What I originally agreed upon is to allow your reputation to apply to two different districts, and upon advancement to seventh level consider the duplication to act as Great Renown, expanding your reputation across the city. That offer remains on the table.

What you can do instead, if you wish, is have 'Claimed Turf' apply to a different identity, i.e. (one of) your Masked Persona(s), presumably La Tisserande. (I specify 'Claimed Turf' because 'Reputation' is always going to apply to Lilli Popescu, proprietress of the Gilded Lily.) However, even if it's the Masked Persona, the effect is going to remain that of the 'social identity' portion of the ability (making neutral-or-better-attitude people like you more).

As this is functionally still game start, you will not need to do either of the above; it will simply be established as the other. (You are ICly, after all, currently actively 'promoting' the existence of La Tisserande.) For the future, however, if you should wish to shift the persona receiving the advantages of 'Claimed Turf', you will have to effectively 'retrain' the feature, which takes 5 days (essentially that same week's worth of time) and will have a monetary cost. RPwise, this will be a matter of playacting a takeover, a 'passing of the torch' scene, or some other style of making one Persona fade and the other one take center stage, followed by paying people to spread the news, printing and putting up handbills informing the populous of the district of the events that took place, whatever. Since the character's current level is part of the cost calculation, I can't give a specific amount, but it would currently be 250gp -- 10gp per level per day, so 50gp per day.

Doing so will have an impact on the Persona facets of your character's various identities, should you choose to spread out your efforts in that regard as well.

Revision
If you go with the 'at 7th level becomes Great Renown', I will allow both Claimed Turf and Galtan Agitator Reputation to apply solely to your core Masked Persona, i.e. La Tisserande, and allow you to let Lilli fade into the background. Otherwise, as above, including restrictions on changing and application.

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If I have missed any questions, by all means whack me upside the head with a carp and redirect my attention to where I missed it. And so long as character tweaks do not well and truly radically alter the character, whether individually or cumulatively, all such are approved.

I have been whacked upside the head with a carp.

Items that include attribute bonuses
In general, items that only provide attribute bonuses are out of the game. Because of the lateness of that decision, already-purchased items still exist, but the characters with those items will receive a full refund (and the item will vanish, or turn into a nice-looking-but-cheap version of the original that you can sell for, like, five silver) when the appropriate mental or physical prowess ABP increase comes to them.

Items that include attribute bonuses, such as the snakeskin tunic or the dance of seven veils, still include such bonuses, and their cost is as appropriate. If that sort of item is purchased, however, and you later apply an ABP gain to the attribute which that item improved, you will not receive a refund, and the item's attribute bonus will not stack with the ABP bonus. Items' attribute bonuses are -- and this is critical -- always enhancement bonuses, as are the Prowess bonuses; as the rules of stacking state, only the highest of enhancement bonuses apply.

Item Crafting / Stacking / Creation
Do not be limited to what it says. If there are three items of the same type you want, look into the item creation rules to see if you can afford the 'compiled' cost of the item. However, if you decide to do any of this sort of thing, clear it with me first.

If you do not clear it with me first, when I find out I will do the worst thing a GM can do to a player: let you keep it, but start planning Bad Things because of the item. You have been warned.

Rawr.

Eponine d'Ambreville

As a note, the manager for Le Manoir Ambreville can manage both Vintners and house-staff; as long as they're operating out of the same physical location, one manager can do both. You do, however, need to indicate what kind of manager (both type and gp-per-day-wise) each of them are, because that does have a distinct monetary drain for you.

Just realised I never replied to this, for which apologies. There's been a fair bit of other stuff to do. I haven't done (and don't plan to do) stat-blocks, but the managers themselves and their class levels are set out below (also added to my character sheet).

I also have one other question but it is less urgent.

Rawr.

and on the topic of different-shaped objects... ;)

I want to set Eponine up with somewhere she can do/research magic. I don't think that this is something that the d'Ambreville persona can legitimately do: she's a small-business owner with no reason to dabble in the arcane; and indeed, trying to so dabble could potentially draw unwanted attention.

Can I set up another persona/identity (neither d'Ambreville nor the Marquise) who would own and run a magic shop? I'd need another manager of course as Eponine wouldn't be there full-time.

If this creates too many moving parts, the other option is to create a series of secret rooms as part of Le Manoir and hope that nobody ever finds out about it. That is less preferred from my perspective, but with my RL hat on I do appreciate that you are juggling an enormous number of different-shaped objects already.

This is one I can at least potentially help you with. You can definitely own and run a magic shop in a third location and manager. Expansion of your organization is part of the game. In terms of keeping it secret from the world, it's also pretty easy to do.

If you didn't want to be associated with it, just to only head over there while in disguise, and have your manager pretend (s)he owned the place. No need to set up another persona or shell corporation or anything fancy.

On the other hand, if what you really want to do is have a third persona/identity, then the answer will have to come from GM TWO, as I have no idea how the combination of Vigilante and Masked Persona would interact with each other.

Thanks. If I can pretend the manager owns the place and then just head over there in disguise whenever I want to do some magic stuff, that would seem to be the best solution.

I don't see a need for a third persona if it isn't strictly required in order to do what I want. entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem and all that.

That's the same issue I'm teetering on the edge of. I have a future plan involving several disguises, and GM keeps warning me that I'm getting close to requiring them to be full Masked Personas. Trying hard to avoid that complication while still doing all the shenanigans I want to do... XD

So sorry--somehow I missed checking in on this thread Thursday evening, and yesterday I was on the road traveling to visit family.

Estelle--That sounds good to me! I missed the fact that our actual bases of operation were at either end of the district, but agree that the pair would still have some contact. I also like that starting point and the potential for fleshing things out further as things go on. For my part, I imagine it's enough of an acquaintance-ship that Athanas probably makes a point of purchasing supplies directly from Versatile Vials whenever he can.

Other than that, I don't think I'm missing anything I need to respond to, and I believe Athanas is ready to go at this point--let me know if I am missing anything.

Speaking of relationships, I listed some potentials in my profile for the other conspirators. If anyone has other/better ideas, let me know.

It would work Manush, but Lucius isn't much in the organised worship of Shelyn, he's been almost entirely inducted by his girlfriend Alix Dubois. It's more likely that you'd know her and possibly of him - since I assume Shelynites talk about their love lives with each other. :)