... Ou la Mort

Game Master The Wyrm Ouroboros

Again, sorry for the away time on that -- got caught Sunday evening with RL stuff, then went looking Monday for my post and discovered I'd deleted it (and more RL stuff, etc. etc.), tried (poorly) to reconstruct, found my post, completed, posted, yay. :P :) Sorry again.

Update in the Campaign Info under the 'Additional Systems' spoiler, specifically links (or directions) to virtually every additional system I've muah-ha-ha-hah'd about using. Obviously some of these we've already dug into (e.g. buildings, organizations, and general downtime), but others we'll get into as we go along. I will be adding additional information here and copying it over to the Info page (buried under some spoiler or another, no doubt, to keep things tidy), but I do recommend at least browsing the information.

One particular thing you will probably all need to at least eyeball, and that is whether or not the buildings and organizations you've created are able to actively produce for you, or whether some elements of them do not. You might also consider what ratio of whatever the group or rooms generate you'd normally care to accept as a default; take a look at how I wrote up Androk for an example of how you can do it. You might also consider having a manager -- second-in-command -- for running the place; Androk does for two of his, and all it really comes down to is that your teams/organization and/or rooms/buildings generate enough GP on a 'Take 10 for the day' to pay for the manager. (Yes, you still have time to consider it. ;) )

So...

Today is the 28th and we are meeting again on the 31st. We have 3 days 'til we reconvene. Will it be possible to utilize teams for action even though it's such a short "downtime"?

For example, if I were to use my organization to infiltrate Joubert's organization, it takes only 1 day of downtime to perform it but then they are ensconced in his for a week...

Is the benefit of the infiltration available on day 2 or would I have to wait the full week and therefore not be ready with info / access by the 31st?

I'm trying to work out the details of the Influence system and whether I can turn my book repository into a proper library, but it will take me some time as I have a couple of deadlines approaching.

Lily:
I knew I'd have to come up with a full settlement setup for Isarn eventually. ;) It takes 1 day to infiltrate them for 1 week (+1 week if you succeed on the check by 5 or more); on the second and succeeding days, 'your team can spend 1 day of downtime to attempt a check to earn capital and treat the result as a Diplomacy check to gather information regarding the organization, reporting the discoveries to you.' So if you use (for example) one of your Robber teams, you'd roll 1d20, add their team bonus of +4, and use that result. Since it's the 28th, you would infiltrate them on the 29th, and they'd be able to make rolls on the 30th and 31st.

BTW -- while I like the 'strange cipher' Lily's using to jot notes, I feel obliged to note that creating and using such requires Linguistics -- if only to take 'Personal Cipher' as a language. I very much encourage this, and was going to suggest the development/learning of either an obscure language, a personal sign language, or the acquisition of the 'Bonded Mind' feat (which, to me, tends to be your teammates reading your body language and microexpressions) for communication amongst either the main parts of the Conspiracy (y'all) or, if it's a language of some sort, being able to teach it to the rest of the conspiracy as a whole and thus have it more generally useful for messages and such. As a result I have no problem with this, so long as you promise to spend 1 point in Linguistics when next you go up in level. Whether you talk with the rest of the group and come up with a common obscure/secret language is up to you. ;)

Jerome:
Your 'book repository' IS a library, specifically for KS: Local. To gain bonuses to other Knowledge checks, you'd add book repositories for those skills. I am going to expand the things that Book Repositories can be built to service, however, to include certain (though not all) Profession skills; you should, after all, be able to have a legal library that will give you that +3 bonus to a PS: Barrister roll. That, of course, is what Jerome's book repository/library should start out as, but I hadn't had the idea; you can change it if you like. If you have such a library, I will presume, should I ever have you roll for a court case, that unless you and pretty much your entire organization have been prevented from doing research, you are going to get the bonus for your case.

Finally back from vacation and can get back to regular posting. I checked Trello and it seems that people aren't using it much, so although I might update it later today I'm going to post a cheat sheet here for our taskings over the next 3 days. Not sure if this will make sense to everyone but it's useful for me so figured I'd put it here.

@GM: No problem, I'll take linguistics next level. On a similar note in terms of communicating with the group, Lily has 10 Code Rods to pass messages with her gang. Perhaps I'll bring 6 of them along to the next meeting and we could start using them. That allows at least some secrecy without needing us all to learn a code.

Recruits to be watched/investigated:
Lucien - Pascal and Bonfils
Lily - Joubert
Jerome - Lambert
Androk - Soucy
Garson - Belmont
Additional: Try to identify who the gardener is for each target while investigating them.

Gardeners to be identified/investigated:
Lily - Argent (and Cadet once identified)
Jerome - Glauque
Garson - Cendre
Not assigned yet: Charbon, Nickel, Ardoise (Androk volunteered but might change once identified)

EDIT: I'm going to swap one skill point (in a skill I haven't used yet) to take Linguistics now, so that there's no issues with a personal cipher. I'm afraid I'll forget to take it at lvl 6 so this way is easier LOL

Question: I noticed Androk's managers have full stat blocks. If we were to hire a manager would we build them or would the GM?

I updated my skills, and also figured out the default capital earning values for teams and organizations. It's in the profile. I also moved some of the team details from the profile to the slides (linked in profile) to clean it up a bit. At this point I think Lilli is finalized and ready to start working on her tasks with the possible exception of hiring managers. I'm still in the air on that one as with her home and personal base of operations being in her building she interfaces enough with her organizations during a normal day that I haven't decided if managers are needed.

Since I have way too much time on my hands to try and catch up, I was looking at game stuff and noticed that Androk has some of the militia units from Lands of Conflict in his organization.

Are we also using the militia rules in addition to the organization rules? I didn't see it in the list of additional systems.

He does, and we are ... -ish. If I can manage to come to an understanding with the damn thing.

The militia rules have some interesting and useful items -- stuff about propaganda, gathering information, manipulating events, and that sort of thing, most/all of which are performed by what look to be specialized teams. But though I'm coming to understand these, one of the mental issues I keep running into is that the rules only really discusses the number of 'teams', and do not seem to indicate the size of such a militia outside of the teams themselves -- which makes for a 'militia' of nothing but special teams, which doesn't quite seem right to me.

It's possible/probable that the information I'm looking for is in the Ironfang Invasion AP, since the 'Lands of Conflict' information refers to that several times, so I'm going to go browse through that to see whether or not it improves things. If you (any of you) have pointers for me, they'd be appreciated.

Once I can get a full grip on this system, I may put it into full effect for the group as 'The Conspiracy', with each of the PCs likely filling one of the six officer roles, and Androk the last; I may also (and in fact I'm somewhat more likely to) simply go with an 'overlay' for teams already in the various organizations -- for example, the team of robbers in Mama's Boys and Girls that's going in to infiltrate Joubert's group might be labeled 'Informants'. Considering many / most of the activities the Militia teams can perform are already available to organization teams, I may drop them entirely.

Regarding Managers:
Managers are useful. Reading Steps 3 and 4 (Determine Capital / Business Attrition) of the Upkeep Phase of downtime, you basically start to lose Capital (Goods, Labor, Influence, Magic) at 7 days, and start to risk losing your business after 10 days; managers double the time for the former, and entirely eliminate the chance of the latter. Now, the organization rules seem to be written with the idea that characters are more-or-less standard adventurers, and don't deal with the fact that the PCs' entire careers might take place operating out of the area; this may be true, but IMO a business you walk through once a day still isn't a business (organization, whatever) that, really, is under your control.

I put in a baseline requirement with Lucien: once per week, his organization (soldiers) will be occupied in keeping the peace in one square / marketplace or another. This is effectively the expectation for every business/organization group that you have -- you'll need to spend a minimum of one day a week 'running' them. Lily has two; while Garson hasn't seperated his 43 people into those who work at the black market or at the luxury goods store, he likely has two as well. That makes for 2 days a week you need to spend running the organizations.

With a manager, you would (theoretically) have to do that once every two weeks; considering that everyone lives in town and therefore nobody is going to be actually out of contact, stopping by for an hour every couple or three days, any organization/building with a manager will essentially run itself so long as you're in town, freeing you up to do whatever you need, whenever you need, at the cost of said organization/building losing 2-4gp of daily revenue.

Note/remember that revenue is figured five times per week, even if the place is open 7 days; it's a 5-day work-week (or, more likely, 3-and-2).

You may build your managers if you like, may ask me to do so, or can simply say it's 'X type' and not worry about stats; the type should always be appropriate (with a reasonable explanation) to the task to which you're setting them, and you should always indicate what type they are, as you've seen on Androk's sheet.

Jerome:
The Buildings and Organizations file operates off which elements you choose to generate each day; generally, it doesn't change from day to day or even week to week, but unfortunately you don't generate all the elements (gold, Goods, Influence, Labor, and Magic) at the same time. I've put your Prosecutor's office into a sheet, and adjusted the 'Totals' sheet to be linked appropriately to yours; by all means adjust the 'Use' column (you'll see how it goes when you look at it) to better fit what you want to generate.

Garson:
I've also put your building(s) and organization(s) into what I thought were appropriate seperate groups -- those running the shop, those running the black market, and those actually out and about, smuggling &c. If you're wondering, I will absolutely allow certain teams (such as the bureaucrats) to be spread among the others; it does, however, need to 'operate' out of one location. Other teams, however -- the elite soldiers come to mind -- do need to operate as a unified team. Reorganize as you deem fit.

The question-laden one returns!

I've decided to make an Underboss for the catacombs. 'Mama' likes to work with her Boys and Girls but they are often dispersed and need more oversight than she can guarantee on a regular basis. Therefore 'Uncle' Perdu has come into being. In terms of his history he's actually the first member of the gang. He was a scared lonely tiefling she found sleeping in an alley who only said "Je suis perdu" when she asked his name (I am lost in the french we seem to be using for the local language :)) As she built the gang up he just fell into a leadership position as the first member, so in terms of fluff he's a home-grown manager instead of a hired one (in terms of mechanics he still gets paid as if he was hired) The others just call him Uncle much like they call her Mama in order to keep that 'family feel'. On a side note he has a crush on Mama and hopes someday to become 'Papa' instead of 'Uncle'.

The question is: What should I start off 'Uncle' with in terms of stats as I build him? I was thinking it would be the standard NPC build (13/12/11/10/9/8) but it doesn't look like that's what you did with your three.

Lily is in The Gilded Lily for a lot more than a couple hours a week and can easily cover a day's worth of work there per week. She needs to spend a minimum of 7 hours a week (1 per day) there anyways just to make sure that the negative effect of her 'hedonistic' drawback doesn't go into effect, and all of her free time is spent mingling with the guests there.

Also - I updated your spreadsheet with my normal daily generation and the presence of the manager. I'm going with gaining 2 of each capital per day and the rest in gold unless specified otherwise. Additionally unless specified otherwise any special action taken by a cutthroat or robber team will be from the one designated as earning gold. That way I can keep the 2/2/2/2 per day and just drop a bit of income when a team goes into the field.

As soon as you are ready, I'll post personal and team activities for the next three days. I have a pretty good idea of what I want them to do but I know you need to get a settlement block built up and don't want to rush you. Just let me know when you're set and where you want us to post them (gameplay or discussion, open or in a spoiler, etc)

For the fun of it, I made a separate alias for Lilli's manager. He probably won't have any reason to make his own posts but I like having it this way for easier organization. Lilli's profile has a link to it for reference. He's all set with the exception of potential ability score changes once GM advises how he wants them rolled/chosen.

I did not choose any alternate SLAs for him as darkness fits him well, and I just went with 'Other: no shadow' for his physical feature if that's ok.

BTW, I dropped one rank of Sleight of Hand and took a rank of Linguistics, allowing me one additional language. I also dropped Hallit as a language so that I had two available. I then took Personal Cipher which is Lilli's own private cipher for note-taking (treated it as a 'starting language' from her intelligence score since she has been developing it since youth.) I also took Mama's Sign/Argot which is a private communication combining signs and a bit of spoken argot which she uses to communicate with her gang using the Linguistics rank (since this would need to be developed later and therefore requires the skill rank in my opinion.) If this doesn't work for you mechanically let me know so I can put Hallit back on the list and grab a second rank of Linguistics for the cipher.

Perdu also has the Mama's Sign/Argot. I originally was going to use Sakvroth but decided that I wanted it to be more private, since other criminal groups might use Sakvroth themselves. Can I treat any team leader at the least (if not everyone) in her organization as 'speaking' it assuming they have a language slot open, or would Perdu and the others need a skill rank in Linguistics to learn it?

Thanks for the spreadsheet, I had just place it on my profile. If I get a manager I'll be forced to get it producing gp or operating at a loss, so I'll avoid it for the moment. It shouldn't be too hard a job.

Sorry for the absence. I am fighting with some neurological pain and complications. Will post a coherent IC post as soon as I can.

Sorry for the absence. I am fighting with some neurological pain and complications. Will post a coherent IC post as soon as I can.

I'm sorry to hear that, I hope you are doing ok. Remember - take care of yourself first. None of us want you to put a game before your health. I don't think anyone will stress about delays if you're dealing with RL issues.

Wyrm's Player Rule #0: RL comes first. Take care of yourself; gaming comes second. Or third. Or, y'know, fifteenth, whatever. ;)

Regarding Languages:
Lily, caught the bit about the language. In order to invent your own cant / argot -- though technically this would probably be an anti-language -- you (or someone in your employ) would need at least 1 level in Linguistics, 5 by preference. (I am willing to require you to have 1, and say that some decrepit old lady with 5 levels in Linguistics actually came up with it before she died. Feel free to name it after her. ;) ) I will note that like regular languages, someone who's around people who speak the language frequently and who tries to learn it is going to be able to do so. It might take some time -- functionally 400 hours (20 days x 8 hours/day, as per 'learning a new language' from the retraining rules) of immersion / exposure, which would probably take a lot longer than 20 days, or even 400 days -- but it can be done. (Just as an FYI.)

In regards to sign languages, while I have argued myself into not requiring players (and NPCs, including Androk) to have the 'base language' for it -- Undercommon for Sakvroth, Varisian for Varisian Sign Language (thank you, Jerome!!) -- in order to learn these things which are 'one step removed' from standard, I am going to require you to find a trainer who knows the sign language and shares a language with you, just as in the 'learning a new language' bit above; a book or other text is not going to do it. Since this is / has been character generation, that requirement is presumed to have been done -- which means that anyone who wants to learn Sakvroth or Varisian Sign, ask the old guys. ;)

I will also point out that both of those sign languages are, well, obvious -- functionally the equivalent of the gestures needed to cast spells, and in fact they may be even more exaggerated. I have, I confess, imagined the creation of a subtle sign language which would be the equivalent of the Drasnian Secret Language from David Eddings' Belgariad; it would likely be a streamlined and understated version of either Sakvroth or VSL, and use the somatic rules from the Conceal Spell feat (Perception check vs. a DC of 15 + your ranks in Sleight of Hand + Dex modifier -- probably just 15 + your Sleight of Hand bonus) to detect the use of the language; without actually knowing it, though, it'd be functionally impossible to understand, just like any other language. Of the six in the Conspiracy, Jerome is actually the most prepared to create such a thing, so ... I'll leave that to him if he wants to do it. ;)

Lily, regarding the team leaders knowing the language ... hm. Actually, I am good with anyone in your organization knowing (being taught) it; it can count as one of their 'extra' languages, i.e. not the standard limit ones (racial languages + bonus from Int + Linguistic ranks); additional languages learned via retraining are, after all, limited to 1 + INT bonus. (That does mean that someone with a sub-10 INT can't learn it for free.)

Manager Profiles:
The Standard NPC 8-to-13 attribute rankings amount to a 3-point build; that's what I actually use. You can use the Standard or 3-point it; it more-or-less amounts to the same thing. ;)

Uncle Perdu:
As Perdu does not have an alternate SLA, he does not require an extraordinary feature, so you can remove the 'no shadow' part. His lower-planar heritage is naturally, if mildly, written on his face and body as it is for most tieflings; only those with extraordinary, unusual, or derivative spell-like abilities need have an extraordinary feature.

Since it's such a small team, I don't think a manager is necessary for Dolorès' acolytes right now, though I'll certainly keep it in mind for the future since I have a feeling Dolorès is about to get very busy with other things.

Yeah, if it's something you do consistently, an hour or two a day -- your acolytes, Jerome's office, Lily's 'Gilded Lily', Lucien's troops, perhaps Garson's shop -- then it need not have a manager; you're spending 8 hours/week on it. If, howevver, that slacks off for one reason or another, having a manager can be useful.

Androk has one for each of his projects because he spends a lot of his time rumor-hunting, people-watching and the like.

Im assuming that as a military officer i spend most of my time every day doing it. This whole revolution tjing only hsppens in his spare time! :)

Lilli already left the Haven so I can't bring this up in Gameplay but...

Dolorès wasn't given any assignments due to the fact that any overt action might jeopardize her recruitment, but she's in a perfect place to identify who Sœur Argent is just by keeping an eye out to see who is watching her. Just a thought.

Weird question: I was talking with someone the other day about the makeup of teams, as an example the we looked at the fact that cutpurses are lvl 1 rogues and robbers are lvl 3 rogues.
Going through downtime rules there is no place mentioned where a team uses their class skills or abilities; everything is done with the capital gain stats of the team or uses the skills of the actual PC. Does that mean that things like level, class, and gear of teams are just fluff and the only mechanical differences between them are their Gp/G/I/L/M stats?

Everyone:
Individual threads have been created for each of you leaving the Haven. Please post about your walk (or in Lucien's case, ride) home; do not get there (or, again in Lucien's case, out of the city). I am going to have each of you encounter some of Isarn's fabulous night-life; how you handle it is up to you.

The links can also be found in this campaign's header; I plan on linking in all of the various pages we may have up there. Honest, it'll make sense eventually. ;)

After 'creating' a campaign for Dolores' page, I'm holding off on doing the same for everyone else; once you post and I post back, let me know if it 'pings' for you. (Which it should. I think.)
Dolores: Ou la Mort
Lilli: Ou la Mort
Lucien: Ou la Mort
Jerome: Ou la Mort
Garson: Ou la Mort

Lucien:
The idea of a military force training near-incessantly is actually somewhat modern; so, actually, is a standing military force. Used to be the king only had a comparatively few troops under his direct command, usually coming due to a 'lesser' title (typically a duchy); the rest of his army was assembled by way of his other nobles. And a relatively small number of men in those armies were soldiers; most were farmers, whether serfs or freemen, who owed a certain number of days a year to their lord for military readiness; often they needed to have a weapon as well. So a 'standing army' is a rare bird; a standing professional army, the one your character-arc needs must have you working on creating, is virtually unheard-of in a medieval setting; most 'professional' soldiers were mercenaries.

That said, I have no issues with you being 'Lieutenant Stickler' and drilling your men for several hours every day; after all, these are going to be the core of your army, and how you start ... should be the way you mean to go on. ;)

OH!! I am reminded. At present, with the number of your troops, you (and Alix Dubois, if you are co-equal and in closely-related commands) will be considered 'Junior Lieutenants', however that's phrased -- 2nd Lieutenant, Lieutenant Junior Grade, whatever. Double your men, buy Alix as a Manager, and you'll get that promotion. ;) Then when you hit that 'I now get Leadership from class' bit, you can get her (if that's what you want) as your cohort.

Lilli:
Wasn't that me? :P :) In any case.

You are correct, the level stuff is primarily fluff; they did not imagine an enthusiast such as I or yourself, building 60 NPCs and giving personalities to each and every one. ;) Doing it that way serves, however, as a functional shorthand, and blends 'what group X is capable of' with 'what group X is willing to do'. Advancing shy and nervous cutpurses by two levels, and you have more confident rogues who are willing to mix it up now and then -- and consequently get paid a bit more to boot.

But no, I'm not going to allow you to build all your teams and use their stats instead of the production lines. ;)

Follow up teams question. I know we talked about it in Discord but the information might be useful for the other players so I'm putting it here.

Are we allowed to reskin the fluff of teams to better fit our organizations as long as we keep stats intact and identify what their "RAW" names are?

For example; mechanically the only way to get the best benefits for team actions are to use Cavalry Archers (+8) or Cavalry, Elite Archers, Mage, or Priest (all +7). The best team that fits easily into an activity phase action involving a criminal organization is probably Skirmishers (+6) and even those would have to have their fluff redone since as written they are for wilderness environments.

Mechanically this isn't an issue. Lilli could always add Cavalry Archers or a Priest to her organization and use them to perform a heist as per RAW, but I would feel insanely foolish writing that in a post. In terms of game immersion it just seems silly to send a sole Priest into an ememy organization to steal things unless he was reskinned as a rogueish Inquisitor with the same team stats.

The other issue is the mounted teams. The only +8 team is a mounted one, but mounted teams don't make sense for anyone but Lucien as horses don't work well in an urban environment.

This question only applies to a couple of the downtime activities, as there are very few that use the team's modifier instead of the PCs, but those are Heist, Infiltrate, Street Violence, Smuggle, and Transport...all of which (or at least the first three) will potentially be used a lot in this game.

EDIT: Before making my first individual threat post and locking in my character, I "upgraded" one of my Soldier teams to a Skirmisher team for 140g. Let me know if this is acceptable, I'm happy to switch them back if it was too late to do so. This enabled me to balance my teams to still get 2/2/2/2 of all the capital per day while having a +6 team available for activities (since they are "normally" earning GP). HL, profile, slides, and spreadsheet all updated accordingly

Was looking at the spreadsheet. Wondering about partial capital amounts. The way I've seen it done before, capital gains are only in integer amounts (so for example Dolorès's Influence per day would be 2 not 2.8, as per RAW a roll of 20-29 earns 2 Influence and her take ten roll is 28)

In this case wouldn't it make more sense for her to move her Acolytes to GP gain? That way she would have take ten values of 18 for GP and 20 for Influence, for a total gain 2 Influence and 1g 8s per day.

----------------------------------------

Don't forget that we still have to pay to "earn" capital at a rate of 10g per point of G/L, 15g per point of I, and 50g per point of M. Just to maintain my 2/2/2/2 I would need to spend 170g PER DAY to avoid accumulating unearned/unusable capital. Stockpiling it without paying to "earn" it doesn't have a huge value as it cannot be used until it's paid for. (You can stockpile unearned capital as long as you pay for it before you use it so it's not completely wasted, but still...)

As we add troops/rooms it makes sense to have the majority of them earning GP unless we start gaining a LOT of gold from non-downtime activities.

A series of Lucien based questions.

Can I get a run down of the heirarchy/structure of the Galtan army such as it is. Also, specifically the local structure and units around Isarn? My unit are here, Alix presumably has a similar sized command, Bonfils has one - are we everything or a few of many? Who commands us etc?

Since Lieutenants are generally sub-officers within the smallest army unit (a company - led by a captain), and Lucien/Alix are 'second lieutenants' how junior are we?

Basically I'd like a list of ranks in order please :) Ideally with examples!

Even more specific - who's based at this fortress with me? Is it the whole army contingent for Isarn, just my unit or something in between?

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Mechanically: My class version of leadership doesn't give me a cohort, I get (up to) three followers at my level -4, who can do extra useful jobs for me. That seems more like a job for Sergeants who can rise to 'Regimental Sergeant Major' or something as they gain ranks. Alix is more of a peer so I'd like to see her as a full cohort. Leading into this, since we're going to be using Persona ranks etc, would you allow the 'Coalition Leader' feat? Then I could take Alix as a full cohort and she'd be almost automatically responsible for a lot of the 'political side' which would suit her personality as described so far.

An everyone related question irt Contacts.

The rules have a lot of information on what to do with contacts, and how to increase their trust, but all it says about gaining them is "The GM may allow you to begin the campaign with one contact (typically with a Trust score of 2 or 3), but otherwise you gain contacts through roleplaying over the course of an entire campaign. To gain a new contact, you must first establish the NPC’s trust through repeated positive interactions or a single profound one."

I'm sure there will be plenty of opportunity to meet/cultivate contacts but I was wondering two specific things.

- How exactly would we cultivate them in this game? Will they be NPCs that we meet in the course of gameplay, will we need to seek them out, or a mixture of both? Additionally if we do need to seek them out what is the procedure, will it take up a downtime day or be a free action with a roll, etc?

- Since we have all been in Galt/Isarn for a while, and nominally associated with the Conspiracy for at least a level or two, do we have any already established contacts?
Lilli grew up in La Lumiere Rouge and still has family there, and she was associated with other criminal groups in the Theater Quarter according to her history for example. Lucien would probably have some military connections, and Garson/Jerome/Dolores have potential contact hooks in their stories as well.

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A similar question about influence with other groups: As there was a trait that none of us took related to this, I assume none of us start with a Rank 1 influence with any groups, but due to previous experiences would be able to have the equivalent of a "Rank 0.5" where we might have a bit of knowledge and a way of contacting them if needed? Something to the effect of groups we'd had interaction so we were somewhere between the point of unknown (rank 0) and known allies (rank 1)?

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All of this stuff is just RP in a lot of games ("Oh btw my childhood friend from my backstory might know about insert thing here.") but since we're actually using the rule systems for these I was wondering if there was anything we could mechanically establish at the start.

I’ve got D&D all day today and then work tonight, but I’m working on a post that will be up in Dolorès’ thread tonight or tomorrow! :)

I'm also making a small fluff modification. "Mama's boys and girls" is a mouthful. If she calls them her boys and girls, they call her mama, and now we have an uncle Perdu, I think I'm going to change the "formal" name of the organization to The Family.

It's easier for outsiders to refer to them, it allows for other familial titles, etc. Just letting you guys know.

I'm still sitting home sick, so nothing better to do than stare at a computer. Was looking at our map of Isarn while making some nefarious future plans for Lilli and some of the comments seem to have disappeared. In terms of the red lettered locations we added, some of them are no longer labeled.

Looking for input as to what N8, N9, and V9 are.

Whereas my ‘home sick’ was wallowing in abject misery. :P ;) Will be getting back to answers and posts tonight.

oooh I'm sorry. Mine was just an upper respiratory thing so wasn't that bad. Hope you're doing better.

Upgrade before start etc.:
No problem.

Partial Capital:
I'm willing to shave down the decimal-point of capital only after a week (5 days of earning) goes by. All of that was, however, just general 'throw it up and put something in there'; each of you can modify your sheets as you like.

Paying to Earn Capital:
This was something I had to take a fairly close look at, because I had concerns about all of that -- and what it amounts to is 'I don't like it that way.'

Me, I don't like that interpretation.

It will still be useful, after you gain a certain amount of Capital developed, to set your B&Os to gold 'production' -- after all, that's how you'll be earning much of the gold you gain.

Galtan Army Ranks, etc.:
The Standard Taldan / Chelaxian Army Ranks, of course. ;)

More seriously, we're looking at the baseline of the nation: France during the Revolution, which really is pretty much 'Every European Army since the Renaissance'. However, ranks and responsibilities!! ... huh. The things you learn -- like hey, you actually do have a platoon-sized unit. And are a full Lieutenant. ;) Ditto with Alix and Bonfils.

Coalition Leader:
Yeah, I could go with that. With your class giving you gobsmacking numbers of Followers (in the long run) and the ability to build up your additional 'somewhat less than totally loyal' command, I'm okay with that variant.

Contacts:
I am still working on developing the answers to these questions, but in general:

1) You will meet a number of NPCs that you can choose amongst to develop as contacts. You will be able to spend a day -- I may break some stuff down to 'half-day actions', so to speak -- to develop an individual to the point where you can begin tracking them as an actual full contact. Undoubtedly, there will be at least rolls, and preferably RP, involved. ;)

2) While I have not yet decided if y'all have any actual established contacts -- more reading for me to do -- I do recommend that each of you propose a half-dozen or more potential contacts for me to choose from. Those can be members of other organizations (but see 'Group Influence' below). Consider this a recommendation for you to offer up people from your backstory as potential notables.

Group Influence:
No, you won't have 'Rank 0.5'. Understand that 'unknown' does not literally mean they've never heard of you; between you and your most likely group(s), it can mean (and I believe I noted this regarding the interactions between Lilli and the Court of Bees) that while they've heard of you, and some of their members have interacted with you, you are not sufficiently powerful or influential enough to be on their radar as an ally or as an enemy.

For now, that's somewhat a matter of 'count your blessings'.

Mama's / Family
(Yes, that was deliberate.) And yay, that does sound much cleaner. :)

Map of Isarn
The other notes are still there -- all else fails, click on the 'speech bubble' by the upper right corner, which is the comment history; that has everything. I am working (okay, will be working) on putting each of these into their own appropriate locations in the 'Districts of Isarn' sections of this game's Galt Wiki / Gazette, donated by the creators of the main one. I do have to polish up the map (anyone able to do that would have my gratitude) and slice as appropriate, as well as make new pages for the various locations.

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Aaaaand now it's 3:30AM, and I have work. Not at 8, thank god, but I got 5 hours last night, so I'm going to head to bed. Thread posts tomorrow!!

Sorry for just throwing a big post back at you but there was a lot of useful information in your last post, some of which I wanted to comment on. It's all informational, with no new questions...GASP!

Reskins: I reskinned standard Skirmishers (L3 Warrior melee/archer mix in wilderness rough terrain areas) to

Urban Skirmishers: The Skirmishers that upgrade from Robbers; L3 Rogue melee/archer mix who can work the rooftops and act primarily as spies/info gatherers but can also do second story jobs or general "troubleshooting" in places where Robbers are out of their element. All stats remain the same

As I kept the level, melee/archer mix, and general concept of the use of the group but just moved them to urban terrain and "criminalized" them I'm pretty sure it works as per your qualifications.

Upgrades/Changes: I mentioned the swap of a Soldier team to a Skirmisher team but I also made one additional swap. I had initially had a hard time figuring out which team worked best as courtesans so I just went with Lackeys. I realized over the weekend that Lackeys are not capable of earning GP (whereas courtesans definitely should be able to) so I swapped that team out for Scofflaws as the stats made more sense. I paid the gold difference on that one as well. That's the final pre-game team change for me.

Paying for Capital: You are the bestest GM evar!! I really like that change as honestly it makes more sense in this game. I'll re-balance my page on the spreadsheet today based on this new info.

Contacts / Influence: The potential contacts I feel Lilli would already have from background are:

Knows as "Lilli / Lily"
- Fellow student / friend from the House of Joy where she was trained and educated. (Maybe working outside of La Lumiere Rouge and therefore a contact inside The Plunging Blade in Nord Riviere or Moulin Bleu in the Wine District)
- An actual Priest or Priestess of Calistria she has kept close contact with as spiritual mentor (Possibly old instructor; connection inside Court of Bees)
- Mother or Father in La Lumiere Rouge with connection to the Court of Bees. (low preference as a mechanical contact as she would want to keep her family out of all the drama/danger but you wanted a half dozen)

Knows as "Lilli / Mama"
- A criminal connection from her time spent working with The Starving Artists.
- Rosa Bonheur from T2 (Golarion Global Theater) and N6 (Pour Encourager les Autres). Mama would have reached out to her due to the work she does with orphans in the theater district and they would probably be friends. (potentially an introduction to The Vice since her orphanage is in their territory)
- Connection inside The Vice that she may have made while establishing the neighborhood since their territories are relatively close to each other

The Family: I knew Mama's Family would come up. I specifically went with "The" just to avoid that joke lol. On a similar note the safe house has an official name now (The Sanctum)

Map of Isarn: I'm horribly bad with image work but MAYBE I could see what I can do. What I already have been working on is an annotated list of organizations/map locations/notable figures that includes notes where they reference or interact with items in the other lists. Warning: it does include Lilli specific notes as well.

Last Note: I also removed my "Initial Gear Purchase" from the profile to clean it up a bit. All the gear is still present in the "Equipment Loadout" section, and I'm keeping the purchase info in a document if you want to reference it to double check the math.

NEW!! -- The Catacombs

BTW I just get a 404 error when trying to access your earlier post linking to the wiki and your new post to the catacombs.

Don’t know what was wrong; Google Sites must have been down, because it’s working now.

Still getting 404 error. Maybe you don't have it for public access?

Hm. Possible. Will check when I get home.

All right, see if that works for you now.

And everyone, if you're an American, Happy 4th!!

It does work now.
Happy 4th to you too!

OK now that I've read through it I understand how to calculate the roll you wanted. Instead of putting another "just a spoiler" post in the gameplay, I'll do it here.

I also had several questions that might be useful for the group:

- What is your opinion on building multiple rooms at the same time? Some GMs say yes, some say you have to finish one before starting another

- What is your opinion on starting both a recruitment and a build on the same day? Some GMs say yes as both actions do not use up a downtime day, some say no since you can only take one downtime action a day whether or not it uses your day up.

- Lastly, just for future planning, if we're allowed to change our earning plan weekly and not daily, if a room or team gets finished mid week will we apply the new value immediately or wait til the next week starts?

You'll be back, time will tell
You'll remember that I served you well
Oceans rise, empires fall
We have seen each other through it all
And when push comes to shove
I will send a fully armed battalion to remind you of my love!

Sums up my 4th July opinions :D

Damn Brits.

Lily, all of your Catacomb thoughts are correct. The DC for getting from A to Z is (Route + Entrance + Exit/Destination + Modifiers) -- which can lead to some extremely high DCs.

Managers:
First, managers. Managers are the key to doing many things at once. Apprentice managers (2 gp/day) can keep an operation going more-or-less indefinitely, but cannot be directed to begin any sort of development; they can, however, take the reins of supervising construction or recruitment of teams. Journeyman managers (3 gp/day) can handle extended operations and may begin one type of development or recruitment (building or team, but not both, chosen when initially hired) as they're directed to do. Adept managers (4 gp/day) can handle extended operations and organize both types of development/recruitment as they're directed to do. Master managers (5 gp/day) can do all this and, twice per month, they may initiate recruitments for their organization or expansions of their building on their own without direction, using the same restrictions as below. They might also take initiative to develop or act upon information and perform other downtime activities in pursuit of their ideas; this may take the organization/building they supervise in a direction which you don't approve; they are, as it were, invested in it.

If you desire a type of manager that isn't in the books, on the website, or in Hero Lab, talk to me. Come up with a skill/wage category, four skills that are considered 'core' to their concept, and a small logical set of classes (PC and NPC) which would fulfill that manager type.

Example #1: Lily might not want a thieves' guild Guildmaster (5 gp/day) to run amok with her gang, but she'd love a thieves' Guild Second (4 gp/day) who can bear much of the burden once she gives directions. The Guild Second is a blend of the Guildmaster and the Underboss, with the 'prime skills' of the latter, but the class types of the former.

Example #2: The Bathing Bees really aren't a prison, but Androk needs someone who can keep the peace, keep an ear out, and keep the people and places clean and in good condition. The Orderly's prime skills are Know (local), Intimidate, Perception, and Sense Motive; he is typically an expert, rogue, cleric, or investigator, but may be any class that can be courteous while permitting no violence to -- or by -- his charges.

Building Multiple Rooms

Tentatively, I am going to go with this:

First, rooms are divided into four types: encompassing, significant, minor, and unusual. Encompassing rooms are those which are often the most significant or central part of a structure, and are those that take 30 or more days to construct. Significant rooms are those which take a good deal of time, and take 10 or more days to assemble. Minor rooms are those which take less than 10 days. Unusual rooms are those which are not really rooms per se, but which are either open land (farmland and rangelands) or add-ons (trap rooms, furnishings, and fortifications).

If you have a manager for the building, you can simultaneously construct up to three rooms, one of each of the standard types (encompassing, significant, and minor). On your own, you can only oversee construction of one room, but you may apply that room to any building you have, so you could have 4 rooms being built simultaneously in one building. Once a room is finished, another of a type not currently being built can be started. For example:

Unusual rooms have unusual rules. Open lands require the full amount of development, but so long as you have a manager for your farm- and range-lands, any number of them can be developed simultaneously; the manager functionally rides between the various locations, checking up on their development so you don't have to. Rooms that are to be trapped cannot be constructed simultaneously with any other; focus is required. The time requirement for fortification is added to the room time before determining what type the room is; this will usually make a fortified room an emcompassing one. Furnishings can be done simultaneously and freely; all it is, after all, is shopping for the right things.

Androk is going to restore one of Isarn's opera houses. He hires a manager (4 gp/day level) and instructs the man to start work on the auditorium (40 days), common room (16 days), and sewer access (4 days). He himself initiates work on a sitting room (24 days). After the sewer access is built, he tells the manager to build a lavatory (4 days), then after that construction of a second lavatory (4 days), then a third for staff use (4 days). By that point the common room is done, so he can instruct the manager to start work on a legal game room (16 days) as well as two storages in sequence (not simultaneously; 8 days each). By the time the first storage is done, the sitting room is done as well, and Androk (having been inspired) initiates the conversion of some space into a ceremonial room (40 days) which he plans to rent out for weddings, bar mitzvahs, and the like, and keeps an eye out for furnishings for the place to maximize the profits and the class of people coming through it.

You may spend additional labor for any particular room's project to shorten its construction time, as standard, up to x3 for 1/3. Any fractions count as full days.

Starting Multiple Recruitments/Construction
You can recruit up to 15 days' worth of teams simultaneously, but no more than three of one type at a time; you can initiate recruitment or construction of no more than 3 rooms, teams, or combination of the two per day. A master-level manager can initiate such recruitment (or building) on her own twice per month, though this counts towards her maximum of 3 rooms under construction and 15 days' worth of teams in recruitment. This accounts for time being taken during your actual daily downtime (that which is not the 'standard 8 hours') to make initial friendly contact with people, do interviews, go over the building plans, and whatnot.

With the more advanced managers, however, this applies per manager. An example:

Androk has three managers: Margaret Ash-Eyes, Viktor Vasko, and Mordecai Heller.

Margaret is an apprentice-level manager (steward, 2 gp/day) who oversees the Haven orphanage and the working orphans within (referred to as the Unwanted). As an apprentice-level manager, she cannot initiate under direction any construction or recruitment, but once these are started by Androk, she can add the supervision of said construction/recruitment to her list of things to do today. She can manage up to 15 days' worth of teams in recruitment, as well as supervising 3 rooms' worth of construction (as 'Building Multiple Rooms' above).


Viktor is a journeyman-level manager (orderly, 3 gp/day) who can handle personnel but not construction; he oversees the Bathing Bees 'chain' of bath-houses, and manages their staffing needs. Once per day, Androk can tell him to begin hiring for up to 3 teams; Viktor may have up to 15 days' worth of teams 'in recruitment' at once. However, Androk has to initiate construction on new bath-houses, though once he does so, Viktor can supervise the construction of up to 3 rooms at a time as well.


Mordecai is quite the competent fellow, an adept-level manager (thieves' guild second, 4 gp/day) who can take directions to arrange for construction to begin, or to hire certain teams; he can initiate any mix of up to 3 of them per day, just like Androk can, but like Viktor must be told specifics. He too can have up to 15 days' worth of teams and 3 rooms in process at a time.


Therefore, each day can see the recruitment of 3 teams from Viktor, and the initiation of 6 teams or rooms by Mordecai and Androk. At most, Androk can have 10 rooms being built (3 under supervision by each manager and 1 by himself) and 60 days' worth of recruitment (15 for each manager and 15 for himself).

Mid-Week Completion

A special note: teams and rooms' benefits activate after their recruitment/building time is up; you might recruit 3 scofflaw teams today, but they won't start producing until tomorrow. Only drivers, laborers, and sailors provide benefits the day they are recruited -- the advantage of basically hiring a bunch of guys off the street corner for day labor, then telling them to come back tomorrow.

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If you have any confusion or questions, please ask -- preferably with a complete and thorough example of how you THINK it's supposed to work, so I can see if you're getting it right (or where you're getting it wrong).

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Okay, that's it for me tonight; I got 5 hours sleep Monday night, 5 on Tuesday night, and 3 last night. Tomorrow's a short 5-hour day, though, so I'll be home early for posting.

With the update as to how managers are going to work, 'Uncle' Perdu has received a promotion to Guild Second (the same 4g one you proposed in your post I just dropped the word 'Thieves' from it for brevity)

Additionally, since there will be some hiring/improvement/additions done to The Gilded Lily, Violet the courtesan has also been promoted and is now referred to as 'Aunt' Violet internally (2g salary Underboss)

Congratulations to the both of them.

I just realized you might still want the Guild Second manager block as you didn't create one in your example:

Guild Second (Thieves' Guild)
Wage 4 gp/day
Skills Appraise, Bluff, Disable Device, Knowledge (local)
A Thieves’ Guild Second manages the day to day operations of a criminal organization, making decisions based on the guidance of his superior. He’s typically a 3rd-level bard, cleric, expert, rogue, or sorcerer. Guild Second tasks include basic administration, training recruits, initiating operations, and managing ongoing activities.

I also realized that Underboss specifies a violent organization and has Bluff and Intimidate so I made up my own entry for a general manager of a social enterprise:

Majordomo
Wage 2 gp/day
Skills Diplomacy, Knowledge (local), Sense Motive, Profession or Perform
A Majordomo manages the operation of a social enterprise under direction of the owner. She's typically a 3rd-level bard, expert, or rogue, but could be any class that specializes in social skills. A Majordomo ensures that daily tasks are completed, sees to the needs of staff, and manages subordinates.

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I was also curious about the following downtime room:

"War Room
Benefit bonus on mass combat and skill checks while scheming
Create 8 Goods, 7 Labor (300 gp); Time 16 days; Size 4–12 squares
-This is a room for planning military maneuvers, plotting grand heists, or providing briefings. It contains a large central table with plenty of chairs, maps, and figures to simulate troops and structures. When it’s used for planning a battle, your army gains a +2 bonus on attack rolls and morale checks for their next battle within 24 hours. To grant the army this bonus, the army’s commander must be present at the planning meeting for the battle or you must have some way of communicating these instructions to the commander. When used to scheme for an upcoming adventure, a War Room allows you to use the scheme’s planning bonus on two skill checks instead of one."

Androk has one in The Haven, and I'm thinking of building one in The Sanctum, but part of the benefit doesn't apply to this game as we're not using mass combat rules. I do like the ability to use scheme on two checks, but we won't get anything similar to the troop bonuses on attack and morale. Would we be able to substitute some other kind of bonus there, such as if you use it to plan a downtime activity the teams involved get a +2 bonus to their check to complete the activity within 24 hours? It's a very similar concept which just brings the benefit into something we will utilize.

Thank you for the manager blocks; they look good.

Regarding the War Room, the downtime activity thing is exactly the idea. So long as you can communicate with the team(s) executing the activity, the bonus can be used on two checks involved in the action, whether that's by you or by any of the teams involved.

Also, everyone -- meaning Jerome and Lucien at this juncture -- remember to stick your OOCs and rolls in spoilers.

Now that I've successfully made the navigation roll am I good to continue all the way home, or just partway again?

Once home then how far would you like our posts to go (just to bed or through activities tomorrow)

Playing with managers.

Want to rename Majordomo to Concierge but keep the stats the same, as Majordomo applies better to running a household not a business.

I also plan on calling Violet "Head Courtesan" since that's her official title but use the Concierge stat block.

I also figured out the whole set for criminal managers:
5gp/day Guildmaster (Thieves Guild): stat block in book; manages the guild
4gp/day Guild Second (Thieves Guild): stat block several posts above; manages an area for the guild
3gp/day Consigliere: stat block follows; manages a major location and teams
2gp/day Underboss: stat block in book; manages a minor location or teams

Consigliere
Wage 3 gp/day
Skills Appraise, Bluff, Intimidate, Knowledge (local)
A Consigliere manages a location for a criminal organization such as a casino or safe house. He’s typically a 3rd-level bard, cleric, expert, or rogue. Consigliere tasks include administration of his local teams, managing staff, and gathering information.

Wrote up another 3g one as well (which others might find useful)
Matron
Wage 3 gp/day
Skills Diplomacy, Heal, Knowledge (any one), Profession (any one)
A Matron manages a place of healing or sanctuary such as a hospital, orphanage, or cloister. She's typically a 3rd-level adept, cleric, druid, oracle, or paladin. Running such an establishment includes basic administration, managing staff, and research.

I had all my updates done last night, submitted them — and 404’d out. Reposting when I get home.

I posted Lilli's activity from arriving through bedtime. I already have a post prepared with all of 29 Desnus including RP and downtime activities but not sure how long you want us to post at a time.

Should we wait to start the next day, pause mid-day for possible input, pause after activities are done, or just go ahead and go all the way from dawn to dusk in one post?