Woops, never made a proper discussion thread for team CASE. here we go!
Just FYSA I'm going out of state for a great big LARP hootenanny tomorrow. I believe I'll have internet access on site. If not I'll try and tether/take a trip to a Starbucks and get an update out on Friday or Saturday. I'll be home on Sunday evening if none of that works out. :3
I have some internet troubles (no internet), so not sure when I'll be able to post.
My internet has been.. finiky the last few days so I'll post when i can.
Im currently dealing with a family crisis. I should be back online soon.
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Crisis isn't necessarily diverted, but I'm starting to cope with it. I'll be back soon, just... might take me a while to get the energy up to post rapidly again.
No worries. My campaigns automatically tend to be a little slow, so please take the time you need. IRL comes first.
It is indeed. Huh. You know, I think faunus-human ratio was the only thing we didn't consider when designing teams. I'm glad there's at least some division otherwise, we might have been accidentally racist or something. :P
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I think it was a neat split. and i'm hoping the skills and personalities all mix well. Esper's been part of a ship crew for most of her life so she's gonna be pretty well acclimated to being part of the team. If not still a bit eager to prove herself to the others.
BTW GM what's their first class and when, Esper looked at her scroll earlier but we didn't get much other than don't be late to combat practice n' the 'list' of classes.
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Since we are about to go into combat for the first time... er.. i suppose we is the wrong term since you guys already fought grimm. Anyway I wanted to get a good idea what exactly the shield board would give stat-wise when used as a platform for movement. Since I actually forgot to stat that up when creating the character. I've got nothing right now, i was thinking it was a vehicle but i didn't know how far i could go with it in terms of all that and the books don't really give info for building your own vehicle.
So i'd like to cast the question out to Everyone to see what they think it would be capable of or how to even write it down. Since i've never played SW other than this i'm not even 100% on how standard vehicles work.
The Sci-Fi companion book has a chapter on creating custom vehicles. With Remnant's ok I'd go with : "Ultralight" Size=1 Accel=10 TopSpeed=35 Toughness=5 Mods=2 Crew=1 $500, which is close to your shield in Size, Crew, and cost.
For Mods, the Dust weapon addition certainly takes up 1 slot (or maybe 2, depending on what Remnant decides). If it takes up 1, you'd have 1 slot left over for "Ignoring Driving penalties for difficult terrain", or "+1 to Driving rolls due to precision crafting" - those are the only mods I could find that sounded reasonable for your shield. But note, I'm ignoring the extra listed *cost* of those mods, which are $1000 and $5000, respectively.
Anyway, it's a starting point - you and Remnant can hash out the details together.
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Ooh that is a good base in my mind. What tech would Remnant be considered on the grand scale, it's certainly not ultra tech, but it's not exactly standard or low either...I would consider it a mix myself since they clearly have hover tech(hover boards)
Also if we're counting the base cost of the shield-sled in the fact that i already paid 250 for it at CC then that should be taken care of. If not well may have to go back to the drawing board a little XD Either way if i've got to pay for all the modifications now then i might be borked till quite a ways into the future.
The boosters mildly fit in for the dust chamber since vehicles and weapons use dust propellant. However i thought this would function the same as boosters if i used say white(motion) dust. The cost for refills even fits.
Boosters (U): Nitrous oxide or other propellants double a vehicle’s Acceleration and Top Speed for a round. Each booster has six uses before it must be replaced. Their effects do not stack. Refills cost $100 per booster. $1K × Size
Exposed makes sense because she's out in the open so that's -50% on the cost if we don't wrap the initial into it's creation bringing it down to 250 if i have to pay for it again.
Exposed Crew (1): Motorcycles and other “ridden” vehicles offer no protection for their passengers. Crew get no Armor bonus should it sustain a Crew critical hit.
Handling makes sense due to the nature of the vehicle, but i'm good without it honestly.
Handling (3): The vehicle is precision crafted and very maneuverable. This adds +1 to Driving rolls per level.
Esper has already stated that her shield may not be as fast as other dune boards but it's more durable and able to be used on terrain other than sand so i figure one or two speed reductions makes sense, opening more mod slots.
Speed Reduction: The vehicle sacrifices power and speed for additional room. Subtract 1 from Acceleration and 2 from Top Speed each time this is taken to gain half Size in Mod slots.
This also tacks on reinforced chassis
Reinforced Chassis: Increases Toughness of the chassis by +1.
Chassis Size Acc/TS Toughness Mods Crew Cost
Ultralight 1 10/35 5 2 1 $500
After mods i think make sense.
Ultralight 1 8/31 6 4 1 $250+8000
Mods= boosters(maybe dust chamber already?), Exposed Crew,4WD,Handling(1),reinforced chassis(1), Speed reduction(2)
Hahaha, whoops. That sure was an important detail we didn't get around to. >_>
I don't have my copy of the sci-fi companion, so I can't check the numbers, but it looks like it adds up with regards to the mods you listed. I'll double-check when I get home.
As it's written, if we're treating the shield as a full-fledged vehicle, you're basically getting a third weapon form (vehicle) for free. If you're willing to give up either melee or ranged in exchange for it, I could see us treating mods and drawbacks as points for a weapon form. If you'd like to keep all three forms of the weapon, I'm probably going to have to have you pay for your mods... Not the full listed cost, as that's probably well out of reach for a student, but definitely paying something.
For now I'm going to deal out action cards and cross my fingers that you're not up first. ;)
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Hmm.. since i haven't been able to buy any more skills/edges could i by chance swap out Ambidextrous, for the Tri-weapon mastery Edge? Cause looking at it I've realized I don't actually need ambidextrous for this character, unless it affects actually using a shield. Between the two i think that the shield sled makes more sense for her to start with and then picking up ambidextrous as she trains more.
Just thoughts I've been going back and realizing how meh i was with using the edges and hindrances to build up the character how i wanted XD. But i leave the actual decision of it up to you.
If you aren't comfortable with me changing ambidextrous to tri-weapon, then I would also be good just saying her shield doesn't change into a board yet and buying that at my next 'level'
Yeah, using a shield is free unless you're actually using it offensively, so that's a solid solution. I'm fine with having you switch. I'm generally pretty forgiving on letting people shuffle around for the first advance (moreso if they're new to SW).
So that out of the way:
As long as you're taking Exposed Crew, we can count it as bundled into the original cost of your weapons and I have no problems with that. For the sake of expediently arc-welding these supplements together, the points you get through your weaponcrafting mastery that you can put towards your vehicle each count for $1,000 for the purposes of buying your vehicle modifications. By my count this means you can get everything you want except handling.
(Upfront: vehicle rules are a little complex to handle when we don't have a map to work with. I'll try to make maps in the future but I may not make one for this combat, so it'll be a little loosey-goosey.)
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Right on, so i essentially exchange mastery points straight into cash for the mods unless i put my points actually towards the weapon itself. I'll go ahead and shuffle things and update my sheet(sans the edges) after the fight so i don't mix any of the stats up cause wow there were so many things i could have done better.
Oh on second thought does that mean i'm not limited in mod capacity so long as i'm spending Weapon Craft points? Thus eliminating the need for Speed reduction?
And would the reinforced chassis affect it as a shield also or just as a vehicle. Just want to hammer out all the details XD.
Carmine - there's some confusion about the tag "Automatic" in SW guns. There's "automatic" in the sense that it has a ROF greater than 1, and there's "auto" (listed as "semi-auto" in SWD) in that it can *also* fire in single-shot mode, which allows double-taps and 3-round "bursts".
Unfortunately, it looks like the "Automatic" mode you selected for your weapon only means that it has a ROF greater than 1. In fact, I don't see "auto" or "semi-auto" listed as a weapon option in Aloha's document. So, you're limited to firing up to your ROF of 3 (apparently including a single shot with no -2 autofire (recoil) penalty, go figure).
Also, your weapon's built-in Two-Fisted ability still doesn't account for firing with your off-hand, so your second shot would be at -2 for an off-hand shot until you take the Ambidextrous Edge.
Sorry to be the bringer of bad news...
I think the weapon had burst fire option, but I must have gone over the design wrong?
As for the -2 off hand, eh... I didn't find that rule till after the post was locked and I couldn't change it. Sorry Aloha!
The only "burst" option is to cover multiple squares ("Area Effect"), which isn't listed in your weapon's description.
Maybe you should talk over your weapon's concept with Aloha, and see if he'll let you change your design? Right now, you're stuck with ROF 1, 2, or 3, with no double-tap or 3-round burst available. Oddly, double-tap is available as a separate 3-point feature, but 3-round burst is not available at all. Guess that's why there's no "semi-auto" feature, as that would allow both.
Speaking of which, Aloha - I just noticed the "Hardline Loader" weapon penalty, and seeing as dust is so expensive, and unlikely to be readily available in the field, I was wondering if I could retroactively add that, and also take "High Penetration"?
You still roll your Wild dice and can Ace.
If you rolled a 4 on your d4, you still get to ace. Which means that on a 1d4-2, you still have a 25% chance of rolling an additional d4 and adding it. Which can end up exploding in your favor.
Carmine - I just ran across this on the SW "Official Rules" board : a weapon "with a ROF 2 and no ability to fire a single shot could still choose to roll just one Shooting die, but it would use 2 rounds of ammo and suffer a -2 autofire penalty".
So, forget what I said about being able to take a single shot with your ROF 3 weapon with no penalty...
I will post when i figure out what i can actually DO. Azure's analysis seems to have broken my weapon designs. :/
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You can :
Shoot one bullet, at -2, using 3 rounds of ammo. That would be one Shooting die and a Wild die.
Shoot two bullets, both at -2, using 6 rounds of ammo. That would be two Shooting dice and a Wild die.
Shoot three bullets, each at -2, using 9 rounds of ammo. That would be three Shooting dice and a Wild die.
Each bullet can have a different target, or all can hit one target. But each successful hit's damage is rolled and dealt with separately, not cumulatively.
Fortunately, ammo isn't tracked unless you built your weapon with such a penalty.
Since ammo isn't an issue, and the penalty stays the same, the best strategy would be to always fire 3 bullets from each weapon (that's a lot of potential damage!).
You can get rid of the extra -2 from the off-hand weapon on your next Advance by taking the Ambidextrous Edge.
Once you become Seasoned, you can get rid of the basic -2 from autofire by taking the Rock And Roll! Edge.
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Or, with Aloha's ok, you could swap out ROF 3 for Double-Tap, which gives you a +1 Shooting and +1 Damage advantage, but only one shot per round from each weapon.
That would leave you with an extra weapon-building point for some other advantage to your weapon, like Penetrating (AP 1, which effectively gives you +2 Damage against anything with any kind of armor, which is virtually everything).
Since we're talking about shooting stuff, I have an idea I want to run by you guys.
How crazy would it be to do dual shotungs? Sure, I'll have to take some disadvantages on weapon, but it would be totally badass.
By weaponcraft rules, we can change change the weapon with the skill once per rank. We wanted to tinker with our weapons, right? Here's a chance - Carmine will adjust his and I will adjust mine.
And so, I have a question - how does No-Switch interacts with Mechanical Edge, Two-Fisted, Weak Defense and other abilities like that?
For example:
Ranged mode:
+4 Automatic, +1 Short Range, +1 Spread
Melee mode:
+2 High Damage, +1 Penetrating
And now I slap +3 No Switch on both of them. How would work +4 Mechnical Edge (Two-Fisted), +2 Two-Fisted, -3 Weak Defense and -1 Heavy? Do I just combine everything? Like, I now have not 5/5, but 10/10 with 6 points already in No Switch?
Sorry if it's a bit messy.
Edit: What I want to ask is - do I need to add abilities on both times, for ranged and melee, or just once, to the new one weapon mode?
Remnant - there was some discussion back on the Beacon Academy Discussion about alternate ways to do Aura Soaking. Have you given any thought to those alternate ways? It looks like our opponents are using the "lose d6 PP per Wound Soaked", which seems pretty harsh...
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On the subject of aura, i was thinking of proposing the idea that aura Is a second bit of hp. Like you can still choose to soak with it but it's not neccessary and it would make the tournament style fights 'lose-x amount of aura and your DQ'd' make more sense. And then to have it scale a bit for progression have everyone gain like.. 5 more aura points per rank (novice->etc) cause based on the forest fight grimm, and i guess anyone really has the chance to one shot you pretty hard.
Esper - you don't *have* to roll to Soak in this case, if you had spent a Benny to remove the previous Shaken, then the second Shaken would have just left you...well,...Shaken. Then you could have waited until the beginning of your next turn, and gotten a "free" (no-MAP) Vigor roll to recover from Shaken. And if you failed, and decided that you *really* wanted to act that round, you could have spent another Benny to automatically recover from Shaken.
But in this case, by spending your Benny after the second Shaken in order to Soak the resulting Wound, since and you completely Soaked it, you also remove any Shaken status, so you're better off!
BTW, where'd the +2 to your Vigor roll come from?
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I thought the +2 from the joker to traits would still apply since the round hadn't ended yet which is why I figured might as well try and soak and pray that I negate it all.
I try to look through the book before making actions but the rules aren't very clear on what is a free action, standard or full very often which throws me off a bit.
Azure: Yeah, I'm still having them use that soak method because I haven't been able to modify the PDF (my free time and ability to use a computer with acrobat haven't aligned recently). I was going to keep it for this combat (it's intended to be pretty fast and harsh) and then revisit the idea, get everyone's input, and update accordingly since the way it is right now is not nearly as good as Schythe and Rungok's versions.
Shamrock: My understanding is that even with no switch, the edges you buy only apply to one form or the other. So if you have a Mechanical Edge on your ranged form, it would only apply when you're shooting. Even though you don't have to switch to your other form to melee, if it didn't have Mechanical Edge it wouldn't be able to use it. In other words: yes you've gotta buy it on both forms.
Esper: I believe you get your +2, I'll double check when I get home. If I had a real complaint about Savage Worlds it's that the rulebook spreads related rules out over like 40-50 pages and it can be real confusing to figure out what you're looking for.
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Ah. Sorry, I forgot about the Joker! I just searched the SW forums and couldn't see that the question had already been asked, but the rules under getting a Joker *do* say "add +2 to all Trait tests this round", which implies that the +2 does apply to what I call "reaction rolls", which are rolls you make when it's not your action, due to someone else doing something to you - dodging explosions, resisting spells, making Soak rolls, etc.
(Remnant - that was my first negative opinion about SW as well - combat actions are spread over 76 pages! It was so bad that I made up my own 2-page summary of all available combat actions and modifiers, HERE.)
Azure, that's really handy. Thanks for sharing.
Saving this for my dark souls game I'm running on this forums
Thanks! If you're interested, I made up several other summaries of various aspects of the system (using a Power, Grappling, Cover, Healing, etc.) HERE. It's a re-working of info from the SWD, but with clarifications added by one of the system developers.
Um, Remnant, please don't throw your rulebook at me, but I think I've been using my weapon wrong. It has Spread (+1), which gives only range-based damage, but not spread quality, which gives +2 to shooting rolls. Multishot (+3) is what gives spread quality for Spread (+1). Yeah.
So, I'll definitely going to rework my weapon.
I've been going through the pdf and seeing what I can do to help clean up some of the definitions and abilities. It's kind of a long term thing, but I had let Aloha know about it months ago that I would be going over it. Once I'm done, I'll pass it by Aloha and if acceptable, pass it down to everyone involved. It should have a finalized version of how aura soaks and a little fine-tuning on weapon design.
Cool, sounds great. Can't wait.
So far, I've got 21 pages of content laid out. Reworded a bunch of stuff, clipped out some edges that were duplicates of existing ones. Almost halfway done.
And yeah... I had to re-kajigger the aura/semblance/dust/weapon mechanics. They were... inelegant. Clunky. Confusing. These should be much clearer now.
I do apologize, but if you like how semblance is being done now, you probably won't like my revisions as much. (at least as far as semblance is concerned)
Um...are your system changes up for debate? Don't know what your revision is, but I *do* like the way semblances work right now...
Could you tell us or show your pdf, even if it's unfinished yet? I like how semblance work now, but I don't know how yours work. It might be better.
TBH, I *don't* like how semblances are working now. People use them way too often, and there's no real cost to doing so, even though characters get worn out trying to use them, much less when they actually use them. This is PP usage in a nutshell, yet we're electing to go with the superpowers companion version of it which is not great, in my mind.
A lot of people like free power. Of course.
Debate? No. I am not going to argue with people. That doesn't get things done, and it makes everyone involved irritated.
Open to feedback? Sure! I am open to hearing people's feedback. If something sounds better I can change it, or if there's some universal issue that I'm not adamant about sticking to, I can find a way to make that work.
I'll probably be done with the thing today. So you can see the preliminary (no art fit in) version tonight.
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I kind of like the idea of semblances being limited use, i mean they are supposed to be your ace in the sleeve. And as we've seen in the show some do drain aura, Sun's being the biggest show of that point.
That being said, i'm wondering how the changes on aura will work, i mean going off of a no info basis here XD. Aura seems to be able to be used as a shield or to perform superhuman feats even if it isn't wrapped up into your semblance. I wasn't initially sure why it cost a benny to soak using semblance when that seems to be one of the most basic uses for a huntsman/tress once they've unlocked their aura.
TLDR; Can't wait to see what you have cooked up Carmine, hope i can provide some good feedback when we get our eyes on it.
@Azure, i'll have to give a read through again myself but are there any rules on coordinated attacks that would fit the bill for Tandem team attacks?
Just an update, I have actual chapters set up. The one on weapons is called "The Art of the Gunscythe."
It's definitely clunky how it works right now and I'd like to fix it, but it doesn't seem to actually work on a power pool in the show. It definitely needs more consistent ruling though, so I'm all for that. I kind of rushed the book out because I was excited to start, and then I haven't had time/have been too lazy to sit down and fix it. That's my bad.
I wanted soaking with aura to cost a benny because between that and Semblance use, Spirit would have been objectively more useful than Vigor. Vigor has no associated skills, but it balances out because it adds to your toughness and you use it to soak. I wanted Aura soaking in some capacity but I didn't want it to make Spirit out-value Vigor completely (Rungok's already talked me through a proposed change to Aura soaking that I am 100% in favor of, and it balances reasonably well because none of the soak edges in the book apply to Aura soaking, only to Vigor).
Dust and Weapons weren't my creation but they seemed balanced enough at a glance. Now that we've spent some time playing with them they do have some confusing language (like Shamrock's issue with multi-shot/spread, whoops) and some of the abilities not balancing terribly well.
Anyway, my rationale for bad decisions out of the way, I'd like to see what Rungok has as far as reworking. Homebrewing isn't my strong suit, so I'm pretty sure he will have a better solution going forward. :)
Ive been doing it for years, and game design is actually my job. ;) i promise you, I'll give it the love and attention it deserves!
And this is by no means meant to belittle Aloha's work! Not at all!
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