The Magus Question: Frostbite?

Hello, all.

Been pondering spell usage for an upcoming campaign. Planning to play a Str build magus (Bladebound/Soul Forger). The main apprehension I have about the class is getting stuck using Shocking Grasp forever. As follows: 1st level combat starts... "what do you do?"... "I use Shocking Grasp through my sword"... 18th level combat... "what do you do?"... "rinse and repeat... but intensify."

...Although easy and optimal, it sounds boring to me. Combats are more interesting when there is more variety, by my preference.

The main alternative I've read about is using frostbite, and that leads me (finally) to my question. The spell does nonlethal damage specifically. What has your experience been with that detail? Has it made the spell useless, or made things more interesting?

Any advice on alternatives, or simply on frostbite, would be greatly appreciated.

All the best

While Shocking grasp is one of the better spells for a Magus it is not the only useful one. Frigid Touch does not do as much damage, but does stagger the target, and does not allow a saving throw to avoid either the damage or the staggering. Vampiric Touch not only has a higher damage cap then shocking grasp, it also heals you.

A Magus does not have to deliver spells through his weapon. For low level spells this makes sense as it boost not only his damage, but the usefulness of his lower level spells. His higher level spells should be used for the same thing a wizard or sorcerer would use them for. Using a fireball to clear out the minions is always a good tactic. If the party does not include a full arcane caster the Magus is much more useful. The Magus in the game I am running is the only arcane caster and he regularly uses other spells like Fireball, Web and Black Tentacles in combat.

The point is that a magus does not have to be a one trick pony. Your plan to use Frostbite is simply replacing shocking grasp as your one trick.

Non-Lethal damage won't hit all foes, but it can very minorly cause those it does work on to go down faster.

High level play I've often seen Magus open with Chain Lightning or Disintegrate (note, its a ray so Close Range arcana works). A crit on Disintegrate (with a failed save) is 80d6 after all...

Mid levels is usually Haste, Greater Invisibility, or Dimensional Door (with the dimensional agility line).

Low levels is Bladed Dash, Shield, or as mentioned already, Frigid Touch.

If you plan on stacking multiple metamagics on your favorite spell, and are looking for which spell to slap your typical cheater traits on... then just pick one.

Most Magi have a trusty spell they use more than others. A lot of times it is relatively low level, cheap to add metamagics to, and reliable when faced with generic enemies. It is their "trick" spell. Same way blasters have a go-to like Fireball.

You either prepare more spells to cover oddball situations where your go-to trick is less effective, or put in the investment to make sure your trick always works. But no matter what, when you break down encounters to such a base dynamic, pretty much everyone is still doing the exact same thing...

Level 1 Fighter: I use Power Attack with my Greatsword, and charge...

Level 18 Fighter: I use Power Attack with my Greatsword, and charge with Flickering Step...

1st level combat starts... "what do you do?"... "I use Shocking Grasp through my sword"... 18th level combat... "what do you do?"... "rinse and repeat... but intensify."

Here's a whole guide on making your Magus gameplay much more diverse.

That said, Frostbite is a great choice, and will outdamage Shocking Grasp as soon as Haste becomes common in your party. Not many things in the game are immune to non-lethal damage, with the obvious exception of undead (use Chill Touch against those).

That said, Frostbite is a great choice, and will outdamage Shocking Grasp as soon as Haste becomes common in your party. Not many things in the game are immune to non-lethal damage, with the obvious exception of undead (use Chill Touch against those).

Yup, this is what I was going to say.

I just did some calculations for an 8th level Magus (Hasted) and it looks like Frostbite does around the same average damage per round as Intensified Shocking Grasp if you can get your attack routine to +17/+17/+17/+12 +13/+13/+13/+8. That's pretty high average accuracy (you'll be hitting most CR:8 enemies on a 4+ 8+ with your first attack) but it's doable. The higher your accuracy gets the hetter Frostbite gets.

It's worth noting though that Intensified Shocking Grasp only deals damage, while a Rime Frostbite deals damage and makes the target Fatigued and Entangled (-6 DEX, -2 STR, -2 on attack rolls, move at half speed, can't run, can't charge, casting spells requires a concentration check), so dealing the same damage would actually make Frostbite significantly better than Shocking Grasp.

Also, you don't need a "go-to-spell" like this. You deal damage with your sword - not as much as the Fighter or Barbarian - but you can also cast buffs, debuffs and battlefield control spells in the same round you hit things with your sword. It's perfectly acceptable (though probably slightly less optimal) to ignore the Magical-Lineage/Wayang-Spellhunter shenanigans entirely.

EDIT: Of all the dumb mistakes ... I've changed the numbers to be more accurate. So yeah Frostbite should win out pretty easily (I forgot to double the damage for Frostbite on a crit -_- )

I had a blast with the Frostbite, Rime Spell, and Enforcer combo when I last played a Magus (Hexcrafter), but there're definitely campaigns I wouldn't play it in - anything where I can count on many of my enemies being undead, constructs, or cold-immune.

Also, if you're thinking about going that route, talk to your DM before you pick up Enforcer. Whether Frostbite will trigger the feat, or you need to be doing nonlethal damage with the weapon itself, can be a sticking point.

As for other spells, I'd recommend picking up Storm Step. In most combats it's a straight upgrade to Dimension Door: it's lower level, doesn't have the "you can’t take any other actions" clause, and does damage to boot. You'll still want to pick up Dimension Door for the out of line of sight targeting and longer range though.

Bestow Curse, if you get access (such as for the Hexcrafter), is also a lot of fun, especially with a little imagination for (DM approved) custom curses.

Personally, I'm a fan of defensive buffs like Shield and Mirror Image for my Magi. Frostbite and Shocking Grasp are goto attack spells, but so are Scorching Ray and Corrosive Touch.

As for other spells, I'd recommend picking up Storm Step. In most combats it's a straight upgrade to Dimension Door: it's lower level, doesn't have the "you can’t take any other actions" clause, and does damage to boot.

Or Bladed Dash - yet another level lower, and comes with a free attack. It makes Magus one of the earliest classes to get pounce.

I tend to use Dimdoor when I need other party members along, but its insane range is not to be discounted either.

Laegrim wrote:

As for other spells, I'd recommend picking up Storm Step. In most combats it's a straight upgrade to Dimension Door: it's lower level, doesn't have the "you can’t take any other actions" clause, and does damage to boot.

Or Bladed Dash - yet another level lower, and comes with a free attack. It makes Magus one of the earliest classes to get pounce.

I tend to use Dimdoor when I need other party members along, but its insane range is not to be discounted either.

Oh, yeah, Bladed Dash is definitely awesome! Though I found that often enough I didn't have clear straight line path (free of enemies and whatnot), or the 30ft maximum range was just a little too limiting, so Storm Step saw a lot of use. It fit right in the sweet spot between Bladed Dash and Dimension Door for me.

My table might be using a more restrictive reading of Bladed Dash than others though; I realize there's some debate over the limits of the movement.