What are the best level 1 PFS builds?

For new people to show what they can do with a character I have made a scarey rouge and a toppling wizard evoker.

Scarey rogue is a human rogue 18 str and 16 cha. A thug archetype. Feats Intimidating Prowess and enforcer. Traits Unnatural Presence & blade of mercy. Uses a dagger to do non lethal and almost for sure the creature turns and runs away.

Toppling evoker. with magical heritage on magic missile toppling and improved initiative feats, a scorpion as the famalir with a trait to bump iniativie. The goal is to get a high init. and ready an action to knock monsters down as they get close to the meleers.

A dual cursed oracle bones. Magical heritage on murderous command. feats extra revelation and extend. Extend murderous command to force the opponent to attack his buddy for two turns. If undead use the other revelation to command the undead.

yeah I made an elven conjurer earlier with a +13 initiative to start. Far as best builds idk about the thug I think if you're going to give up trapfinding you may as well go two weapon knife master with kukri or ninja.

Well the scarey rogue gets a +4 to hit. If it hits do an intimidate check at like +10. If you succeed(like95% chance) they turn and run. that provokes. plus if they run back the next round they will be flat footed. so you remove them from the fight for like 2 rounds.

wait you don't get that brutal beating ability until third level and by then a knife fighter is making 2 attacks with kukri for 1d4+2d8/1d4+2d8 and strength bonuses(+4 and +2 in the case of your 18 str) with a crit range of 18-20 and likely taking enemies out of the fight not for 2 rounds but for good.

Well for new people having powerfull build for level 1 is nice. The idea is to get people a strong character for level 1 and then rebuild something they really wanna play at level 2. If you look I am askign for level 1 builds.

Well the scarey rogue gets a +4 to hit. If it hits do an intimidate check at like +10. If you succeed(like95% chance) they turn and run. that provokes. plus if they run back the next round they will be flat footed. so you remove them from the fight for like 2 rounds.

They won't provoke if they use the withdraw action (which is what they'd usually do.) Thug only gets them to frightened, it's only when they become panicked that they flee "at top speed."

wasn't sure what you were asking for honestly. Your title and your OP are pretty different.

You ask for builds, then you start posting concept builds...

I posted what I have alreayd made for people. I was looking for more ideas.

Different DMs play frightened differently.
Frightened: Characters who are frightened are shaken, and in addition they flee from the source of their fear as quickly as they can.

use the pregens then.... sheesh.

What you want to do is have someone with a great build play with them, and let them explore and discover it themselves, at lvl 1, very little excels or stinks.

Well for new people having powerfull build for level 1 is nice. The idea is to get people a strong character for level 1 and then rebuild something they really wanna play at level 2. If you look I am askign for level 1 builds.

yes but as i stated you won't be debuffing as a thug at 1st lvl.

Yes it will. read the feats and such i aligned it with. It is all first level.

Lovely, exploitation of the retraining rule. Not cool.

Didn't think there was a retraining rule actually,except for fighters and inquisitors. Killing is better then scaring anyway. My Rogue kills your rogue. Don't need to be scared to die. I'd rather a 7 cha and pump damage out the ass than waste time scaring someone/thing.

Didn't think there was a retraining rule actually,except for fighters and inquisitors. Killing is better then scaring anyway. My Rogue kills your rogue. Don't need to be scared to die. I'd rather a 7 cha and pump damage out the ass than waste time scaring someone/thing.

Except your rogue NEEDS a flanking buddy and won't usually one-hit his rogue anyway. Put the two of you in a ring, and he wins.

There is in pfs. you can completely recreate your character right before you get to level 2. i'd rather just gm 3 games.

Retraining is new to the current PFS book. It lets you remake your character (except gear, if I'm not mistaken...) between sessions until you play as a 2nd level character.

So your idea for pre-made PCs to hand to brand-new players are a set of complicated, multi-book niche builds that have to be played in very specific ways to be effective in any way?

And you expect that to hook new players? Are you serious?

No, what you've built are zany field-trips for experienced players who want a vacation from their own usual fare but can't be bothered coming up with a funny PC themselves.

I think that is a good reason for what it is for. You can continue building the class if you wish. It is greta for new people to have something powerufl and fun to play when they do not know the game. When you play at a table where everyone else can power game your pregen looks sad and worthless.

It keeps new people interested.

You underestimate people Jiggy. SO far my three builds I alreayd handed out people are in love with. I coach the people for a few minutes on what they can do and let them have at.

Conundrum wrote:

Didn't think there was a retraining rule actually,except for fighters and inquisitors. Killing is better then scaring anyway. My Rogue kills your rogue. Don't need to be scared to die. I'd rather a 7 cha and pump damage out the ass than waste time scaring someone/thing.

Except your rogue NEEDS a flanking buddy and won't usually one-hit his rogue anyway. Put the two of you in a ring, and he wins.

Rogues don't fight in rings dear, they fight in dark alleys. Mine has an 18 dex and pops out of the shadows to slam a knife in mr. thugs BACK while he is flat footed :) . with 18 str and 16 cha how high are his other stats? Betting he has 9 hp at most and I'm doing 1d4+1d8 plus str, which if I don't tank it is probably +1 or +2. So if he lives thru that congratulations.

Here's mine: Fighter Strenght 20, Greatsword,Powerattack,Toughness.Beats everything at level 1:)

YESS!! take that dirty thug in scrub leather armor!

So your idea for pre-made PCs to hand to brand-new players are a set of complicated, multi-book niche builds that have to be played in very specific ways to be effective in any way?

And you expect that to hook new players? Are you serious?

No, what you've built are zany field-trips for experienced players who want a vacation from their own usual fare but can't be bothered coming up with a funny PC themselves.

I disagree, even for new players it's fun to have some tactical moves. He didn't say "what is the EASIEST build", he said "what is the BEST build?" Sure, it takes another 2 minutes to explain to them that they have a special move, but the character ends up being a lot more fun than "I hit the goblin with my axe."

Sleet, as long as he wins initative.

Thank you RumpinRufus , that has been my exact idea.

Here's mine: Fighter Strenght 20, Greatsword,Powerattack,Toughness.Beats everything at level 1:)

Nope, doesn't beat the wizard with Color Spray.

yea i still think a 1st level human barbarian 20str 16con with power attack and toughness is the way to go. pretty easily have 20hp while raging at 1st level, doing +9 to hit 2d6+13 damage on a power attacking charge. Your new character examples are clever, but i don't think they are actually better than that.

although i would like to point out that i kind of agree with Finlanderboy and RumpinRufus in that just having a 'i hit real hard' character may not recruit new people, but his ideas will show people that with some clever knowledge of the rules these are some concepts you can do that are not only powerful, but interesting. Showing people 'look what you can do with a level 1 compared to the boring pregens, imagine what you could do at level 5? or 10 even?'

i do like them a lot btw.

Look at the gnome color spray asthyril. You get a gnome decked to win iniative with color spray. It is lights out.

Forget the toughness, drop the hero point and go human, take power attack, cleave and cleaving finish to kill the rogue AND the wizard!OFF a charge no less!

Forget the toughness, drop the hero point and go human, take power attack, cleave and cleaving finish to kill the rogue AND the wizard!OFF a charge no less!

Or be the wizard and Color Spray 7 fighters (since it seems like we're assuming that we win initiative and all our enemies are standing next to each other.)

True, you probably won't have time to coup all of them... until after the second Color Spray.

with both magical lineage and wayang spellhunter traits for color spray you could make it persistant at 1st level :)

For a completely different take on this subject there is the build I always help new players create. I call it 'Talk to the person and figure out what sort of cool idea they have.' After that I help them create a character that matches up with their idea and is effective in combat and has some out of combat skills. I mean having played numerous lvl 1-2 mods they aren't exactly killer so any character who is mildly optimized will run roughshod over the mod. Another key is to give the player some useful out of combat skills for several reasons. First combat is only about half the game and it sucks for the new player to be bored during the other half of the game. Second it also frustrating at low levels to fail at faction missions so I do everything in my power to make sure that new players have a few skills that might help them not fail. Finally I reassure them that after playing three mods they will have an opportunity to make changes to their character once they know what does and doesn't work in PFS.

I don't think a one trick pony build using mechanics from multiple books is the best way to introduce someone to PFS. I think a new player is far more likely to stick around if you help them build a character they can relate with and want to play. Also people are more likely to stick around if they have fun, and frankly a party of 6 encounter ending PC's who roll initiative to see who can end the encounter first isn't very fun.

Perfect example of this is I just helped build a new player a Samurai. Now I know this isn't the most optimal class, but it was what he wanted to play. He wanted to be able to talk to people both in a convincing and threatening manner, so having a choice to put int/wis/cha at 12, I picked cha even though this wasn't optimal. Finally he wanted to be able to do that ever so iconic move of intimidating people with his skill at blades so I gave him weapon focus katana and dazzling display. Once again not optimal, but I wasn't really worried because he had an 18 strength, chainmail, and a katana that he could wield two handed. He was going to be just fine in a level one mod. Maybe after a couple of mods he will decide that dazzling display isn't that effective and switch it out, or maybe he will like it because of the style factor. Either way he is very excited about his character and eager to play, and I don't think he would have been if I had created a power build for him to play without his input.

Aravan, my impression was that this was for cases in which a new player shows up at game-time with no character sheet. If you have several hours to build a character custom to the player's wishes, obviously that's better than handing them a pre-gen. I believe the intent of this thread is "what's an effective and fun pre-gen to hand out when the game's starting," not "what trick builds should you force the newbie to play."

I am glad all your new people show up with time to discuss this. Usually I get people come in right on time or later. So I sit them next to me speed them up and ask what they would like to play. Then I give them one of my pregens based on what they ask.

If I had time to sit down with someone to make them something they would enjoy I gladly would. Plus some people are so new they do not know what they do not know.

If you put an unoptimized new player level 1 with a table full of optimized level 2s their character will look pathetic and bore them.

With a blank character sheet and my ipad I can create a level 1 character in less than 10 minutes, probably closer to 5 if needed which is more than enough time as there is often 15 minutes spent trying to get everything in order. Once again I figure out the bare bones of what they want to play and create a combat effective character of that style. I prioritize being effective in combat, with some useful skills that will give the player some choices out of combat also. I am not opposed to giving a new player an effective character in fact I support that. Where I disagree with the rest of you is in the opinion that a one trick pony is both fun and effective for a new player.

Fine then do not contribute. You and your god machine of printing our a charcter sheet instantly for a new character that understands all the rules because they are next to you and you have this awesome aura is great. Us humans rely on other things.

The 1st level "flying gnome" is a fun play. Lets them do stuff no one in the party can.

The 1st level "flying gnome" is a fun play. Lets them do stuff no one in the party can.

Ok, I'll bite. How does a 1st level gnome fly?

Aaron Miller 335 wrote:

The 1st level "flying gnome" is a fun play. Lets them do stuff no one in the party can.

Ok, I'll bite. How does a 1st level gnome fly?

Ant Haul on familiar and reduce person on yourself I think.

c873788 wrote:

Aaron Miller 335 wrote:

The 1st level "flying gnome" is a fun play. Lets them do stuff no one in the party can.

Ok, I'll bite. How does a 1st level gnome fly?

Ant Haul on familiar and reduce person on yourself I think.

you would have to enlarge the familiar also,it has to be small not tiny. thats 3 spells as a lvl 1 caster if youre going that route.

gnome druid with roc animal companion would do it

Here's mine: Fighter Strenght 20, Greatsword,Powerattack,Toughness.Beats everything at level 1:)

Human Fighter, Strength 20, Falchion, Power Attack, Furious Focus, Toughness. Beats your fighter.

Raging Human Barbarian Strength 24 (raging), Power Attack, Furious Focus, Falchion. Probably beats them both.

Human
Fighter

-Stats (25 point buy)-
STR 14
DEX 16 (+2 racial) = 18
CON 14
INT 14
WIS 10
CHA 10

AC 22
Touch 15
Flat-Footed 17

Hit d20+4
Damage d6+2

-Feats-
01 Dodge, Shield Focus, Weapon Finesse

-Gear-
Heavy Steel Shield
Chain Shirt
Rapier

For the mid maxing 20 str characters with weapon focus still have to roll a 16+ on a d20 and the raging barbarian needs to roll a 14+. Also those characters usually dont have much ac so ya lol.

Sleet Storm wrote:

Here's mine: Fighter Strenght 20, Greatsword,Powerattack,Toughness.Beats everything at level 1:)

Human Fighter, Strength 20, Falchion, Power Attack, Furious Focus, Toughness. Beats your fighter.

Raging Human Barbarian Strength 24 (raging), Power Attack, Furious Focus, Falchion. Probably beats them both.

Why would you take Furious Focus instead of Weapon Focus?

Also, now I'm having fun imagining a roc-riding gnome cackling madly as it flies through the air, shooting blowdart after blowdart at the enraged barbarian until he looks like a pincushion.

Remember to take 1 rank in Profession: Cookie Cutter.

Tels wrote:

Sleet Storm wrote:

Here's mine: Fighter Strenght 20, Greatsword,Powerattack,Toughness.Beats everything at level 1:)

Human Fighter, Strength 20, Falchion, Power Attack, Furious Focus, Toughness. Beats your fighter.

Raging Human Barbarian Strength 24 (raging), Power Attack, Furious Focus, Falchion. Probably beats them both.

Why would you take Furious Focus instead of Weapon Focus?

Also, now I'm having fun imagining a roc-riding gnome cackling madly as it flies through the air, shooting blowdart after blowdart at the enraged barbarian until he looks like a pincushion.

No penalty for Power Attacking. Furious Focus removes the Power Attack penalty for your first attack. Since you only have 1 attack in a round (short of Two-Weapon Fighting) until 6th level, Furious Focus is better than Weapon Focus. A Power Attack, Furious Focus, Weapon Focus character would probably dish out more damage, but less HP. Though I think a bonus of 3 hp vs a Power Attacking Barbarian isn't really all that useful.

Ok, I'll bite. How does a 1st level gnome fly?

The half-orc throws it, obviously.

Gignere wrote:

c873788 wrote:

Aaron Miller 335 wrote:

The 1st level "flying gnome" is a fun play. Lets them do stuff no one in the party can.

Ok, I'll bite. How does a 1st level gnome fly?

Ant Haul on familiar and reduce person on yourself I think.

you would have to enlarge the familiar also,it has to be small not tiny. thats 3 spells as a lvl 1 caster if youre going that route.

gnome druid with roc animal companion would do it

No you don't ride it you let the owl or hawk carry you. With ant haul the light load of an owl or hawk is 60 lbs. A gnome weighs between 32 - 43 lbs. So actually you might not even need reduce person.

Eh, I got one if you guys care, actually using this one at the moment:

Half Orc Summoner.
18
13
14
7
7
16

Sacred Tatoo alt racial
Viking blood
Indomitable faith

The half orc is mostly for the Great axe prof and the access to the sacred tatoo or orc ferocity (either one is good for a summoner, the tatoo is needed IMHO due to will save concerns)

The eidolon is a buzzsaw kitty type with pounce and level 1 improved nat armor. Alternatively its not a bad candidate for a trip pet instead. Or you could make it a weapon user biped, doesn't really matter as long at it isn't one of the "waste of space" builds.

Spells are to what you feel the need for, enlarge person is strong, use your PA for wands of shield and/or mage armor. Grease is also useful for locking out enemies for a round or two, or giving you that juicy enemy prone bonus.

The +4 to hit with a 1d12+6 is nearly as good as what a fighter could do, and the pet adds quite a bit more [2(d4+2)+(d6+2) without power attack involved]. Armor is sort of a problem, but summoners have access to mage armor, light armor prof, shield spell ect, so shouldn't have too much tanking problems. A quick shield or pre combat area mage armor on the pet gives it a near untouchable 20 AC, could get it to 24 but that is high enough at lvl 1 to be wasteful.

I put a rank in intimidate, which make it +10 at level 1. At level 1 that should be pretty close to auto pass DCs (10+hd+wis mod), 5 hit die bosses might be harder, but even with 18 wisdom that is only DC 19.

Human

Fighter

-Stats (25 point buy)-
STR 14
DEX 16 (+2 racial) = 18
CON 14
INT 14
WIS 10
CHA 10

AC 22
Touch 15
Flat-Footed 17

Hit d20+4
Damage d6+2

-Feats-
01 Dodge, Shield Focus, Weapon Finesse

-Gear-
Heavy Steel Shield
Chain Shirt
Rapier

For the mid maxing 20 str characters with weapon focus still have to roll a 16+ on a d20 and the raging barbarian needs to roll a 14+. Also those characters usually dont have much ac so ya lol.

i will give you automatic hits for slightly higher damage than normal(1d6+2=5.5 average) for 3 rounds = 18 damage, barbarian is still not dead.

Given the fact that Pathfinder Society is 20 Point buy only, your build is invalid. Not only that, you spent nearly all your money on the Chain Shirt, Shield and Rapier. You still need to buy all the other things, like food, clothing, backpacks, rope, torches, waterskins etc.