Also everyone else, we can continue and any new players can be introduced later on in the story.
Ainver check the campaign info tab for the xp tracker. that is where you start at.
we are using slow progression
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RE: DM
very slow progression considering our post rate :P
RE: new guy:
First off I want to get this out of the way: I have aspergers (I missed one letter and it autocorrected to "superhero" which I think is hilarious) if you feel I am being rude or pushy or whatever please tell me because odds are, I won't know I'm doing anything wrong
Don't try passive aggression because that doesn't improve the odds much.
I'm giving this advice because I think it will help maximize the amount of fun you have. That and I like building characters :P
If I am getting in the way of that please let me know, I won't be offended or anything stupid like that.
Anyway onto the advice
vivisectionist stacks with chirchugen , and flavor text works however you want it to.
Mechanics wise a vivisectionist is just an alchemist who doesn't use bombs as much (they still get int to damage and can make regular bombs with craft alchemy) and instead studies anatomy and uses int for heal checks (via know nature)
But if you're not feeling it, that's fine.
As a note glory rogue is intended to be pretty much entirely a buff. Rouge needs it even with unchained (less so in gestalt admitedly)
And given that we have a hard/paladin and an inquisitor (I think they have cure spells) any strategy involving you using consumables as anything but "it's an emergency and we're all out of everything else" is very sub par.
Plus with scrolls you'd have to devote UMD ranks and remember those cure spells aren't actually on your spell list until the moment you spend both the arcana points and the spell slots
Scrolls are generally only really useful for things that you almost never need, but when you need it, you really need it, or other specific circumstances (scrolls of remove curse, remove poison, stone to flesh, breath of life, dispel magic etc)
Wands are slightly more useful later on though, and if you can get a 3.5 "eternal" wand or a staff that's a sound investment.
Least important on the list of things to consider is the fact that we already have a dedicated arcane, but no dedicated divine since our monk/Druid left. Also, I just like oracles a lot.
In short: kitsune rouge/oracle has a lot of things going for it.
D8 HD, 8 skills per level, dang near all skills as class skills full divine casting full sneak attack useful utility medium BAB, the ability to wear medium or light armor a decent selection of weapons you could use, two good saves, (if I remember right) more spells per day than an arcanist/rogue, and none of your special abilities share a pool of uses per day with any of the other like arcanist's discoveries do.
With the reccomended lunar bloodline you also can get a flanking buddy who can trip on a bite in the form of a giant fox animal companion (also known as a wolf animal companion with a new paint job)
And it only really needs dexterity to be high as opposed to arcanist/rogue who needs both those stats and intelligence
Alternatively if you like rouges with high wisdom over ones with high charisma, the shamen is a very interesting choice.
RE: DM
The glory rouge and related archetypes help the rouge have somewhat nice things but is far from overpowered even comparing to things like monk
[b]RE: new guy [/b{
sorry for the wall of text, my inability to shut up is worsened when really tired or excited
Lord Foul II
No offense taken and thanks for the clue-in, Mr. Superhero. (I also find that amusing! My phone does it to me a lot, but nothing quite that cool.)
I am not planning on combat being her main schtick so buffing her sneak attack doesn't interest me as much as some options, like pushing her potential as another skill monkey to backup/aid Del. Having INT bumped up for the caster helps push up those skill points, so that's not a downside in my mind. I'm not a min-max player, obviously, but sometimes I play one on the boards. ;P
I will give it some thought. I also like the oracle class, but I've played it before and part of playing on the boards is to give me chances to play things I don't get at my very limited tabletop play.
DM of the Coins
Thanks for the links, that's where I was working from. I already have Community Packs enabled and downloaded, but Gestalt is not showing up. I'm guessing I must be missing a required package to make Gestalt work. I didn't realize I was missing Pathfinder Unchained until I tried to use it for this rogue.
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None of the mentioned builds are exactly DPS monsters, nah, you have skills and fitness and lots of utility and buff castings
"I think I can sum up the building of a Gestalt Character in 10-commandments style:
1) Action Economy Is Still King
-Full Triple-progression casting is cute, but ultimately futile in combat since nearly every spell, Power, Invocation, etc takes a Standard Action to use, and you still only get one of those per round. Try to mix your activation abilities up, between Standard, Move, and Swift actions, so that you can get more out of what you have.
2) Focus On One Theme
-Having schizophrenic capabilities just means you'll be more at a loss in combat, despite the increased options, especially if the two sides interfere with each other in normal use. Barbarian/Wizard, though it may sound awesome, generally either gives up most of the benefits from one side of the progression or else is just confused in battle. If it can't be effectively done on one class, it generally isn't worth doing on two.
3) Strengthen Each Other's Weaknesses
-Since you always take the higher HP, BAB, Save, skill points and both skill lists, try to ensure that your secondary class is good at some things that your main one isn't.
4) Remember Your Stats
-Twice as many "classes" means twice as many opportunities for MAD. Make sure your key abilities from both sides are still lined up onto one or two main stats
5) Remember Your Feats
-Feats are the one thing you don't get multiples or increased numbers of normally. This makes prerequisites and feat chains just as hard to squeeze in as normal, more so if you want to Prestige on both sides of the equation (and many do)
6) Dipping Is Easier
-In Gestalt, dipping 1-3 levels on one side for supporting capabilities does not delay or prevent high-level capabilities from your other side. Ftr 2 for feats and proficiencies, Paladin 2-3 for Cha to saves and immunities, Meldshaper levels, etc are all simple and powerful options.
7) Beware Wasting Identical Advantages
-This causes pure waste. A PrC attempting to increase your Wizard caster level on one side and a level of Wizard on the other just lost a caster level benefit. Similar things go for other benefits, such as Uncanny Dodge, high HP/skills, and Proficiencies (not as much a concern as the others).
8) Active/Passive Mix is Typically Best
-Let one side have the abilities which require actions. You can put together cool utility, long-term buffing, bonus feats, and static/reactive abilities on the other side
9) The Very Worst Classes Sometimes Aren't Bad Here
-Monk, with its dominant saves, decent skills, and host of static abilities, is a FAR better choice for support-side levels than it is for single-class. The Expert, despite being an NPC class, notably is able to pick ANY TEN SKILLS as class skills with 6+Int per level, which can be clutch if your prereqs are getting tight. Any class that usually has the phrase "if only it had ___" can easily acquire it. Basically, almost anything can be of benefit to SOMEONE under Gestalt system (other than Commoner)
10) DM Always Has Final Word
-Just like normal, if you are crafting an epic masterpiece of a character but it will outshine the others of the group, expect any sane DM to veto it, or else be ready to throttle back what you can do for the sake of having, you know, fun."
I'd say if your UMD is high then we can just use wands for most of our healing and you don't have to give up arcanist goodies with the white mage archetype. Rogue fits with the kitsune hiding out as human fluff on the other side of the gestalt. I'm a bit leery of doubling down on spell casting with oracle as, as Lord Foul pointed out, you can only do one thing per round.
I think I've chased this too far; I don't want to step on Tatsuo's toes. You already have a dedicated arcane caster, you need a dedicated divine caster. Which brings me to LF2's original suggestion of an oracle/rogue.
For the gestalt-experienced, how stupid would an oracle/cleric be?
EDIT: Hmm... I should think before I post. That doesn't do a lot for synergy, does it? Lots of potential healing, but that's about it.
My gestalt strategy is usually to pick a stat that two otherwise different classes make good use of and go wild. A high cha, high dex unchained oracle/rogue could be pretty powerful and would fit your kitsune pretty well.
But play what you want first. If you want to play an arcanist. Go ahead and we can buy a few arcane wands of CLW to go with that.
All of this back and forth and I think I've come around to one of Lord Foul II's suggestions - the lunar oracle/unchained rogue. She will probably eventually take Fox Shape for thematic reasons. Natural Spell or a similar ability will probably come into play.
Oh, no. The thought of an oracle/sorcerer just wiggled into my head because of the Eschew Materials bonus feat... It would reduce some MADness I have going on... And I thought I had made a decision.
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if eschew materials is what you're looking for take the archetype that grants "false focus" both for thematic reasons (it's the Razmiran Priest ) archetype) and because the false focus feat is simply better than eschew materials unless you're stripped naked in a jail cell somewhere
Both oracle/soccer and oracle/rogue are very viable options (for that matter so is oracle/ninja)
Interesting. So many choices I have not seen. Of course, if I go oracle/rogue, I don't qualify for that feat, but if I go oracle/sorcerer, it would be a boost to the normal bonus feat, as you say.
Should I just roll with the original "max first-level wealth" or is there a target number I can work with when it comes time to look at gear? I don't think she's going to be gear-heavy at this point, so either will probably work for now.
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I like reading up on the stuff that isn't commonly used even if I never use it and this priest archetype is a good one for if you go that route
I figure it's best to flip a coin if you can't decide
Not necessarily because of the coin itself deciding but because half the time when it's in the air you root for one or the other
Pick the one that in your gut you root for in the coin flip
Me personally I feel like the rouge has a nice suite of passive abilities and casters of course rock the active abilities, but duel primary spontaneous casting will ensure you pretty much never run out of spells under any circumstances and with two spell lists to pull from you'll almost always have exactly the spell for the situation especially once you hit lvl 9(unless we're all totally screwed anyway) and it actually fits that bit about using scrolls by Letting you power them with your spell slots
What mystery and bloodline are you thinking? Play up the kitsune with fey/lunar and do some nature and charm spells
Blast with fire/elemental or draconic
Some other third thing (illusions and/or divinations maybe? A diviner would be handy for story reasons and fun to RP, illusions would fit the trickster behavior of kitsune)
And while you won't be able to wear anything heavier than silken ceromional armor with an armored kilt (because you're proficient in medium armor if I remember right) you're still more durable than the standard sorcerer.
Dang it now that you've added this both options are cool enough that I don't know witch to advise!
IWe're level 3 so go for the lvl 3 starting gold
Dang it now that you've added this both options are cool enough that I don't know witch to advise!
Ha! Then I know they must be good!
I'm obsessing about mysteries at the moment because that's the class I'm expecting to use for certain. Several of the options don't excite me - either the revelations or the bonus spells are kind of meh for me.
However, a number of them have an armor option as a revelation that could remedy issues with AC when mage armor no longer is enough.
A couple that interest me make me think a combat-oriented rogue might be more fun... Wind seems thematically good for the wanderer and has some synergy with the rogue. Battle and metal have some features that could work with the rogue.
On the other hand, a thematically-linked mystery/bloodline pair sounds like fun, too. INT becomes less of a thing if I'm not trying for skill monkey, reducing the MADness.
Time to shut down and sleep on it. Here I moved away from the arcanist to avoid getting in Tatsuo's way and I'm considering a sorcerer instead! How did that happen?
What is Tatsuo's arcane schtick? Maybe I can avoid overlap too much?
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He summons and uses lightning!
I really like lunar oracle for kitsune, and the animal companion would be useful for a rouge
Or you could go for lore oracle and be the fox with his nose in every window (or some other metaphor, don't think this one I made works very well) it also diminishes your need for both int and dex
Just a sec I'll try to find a sorcerer option good with divination if you want to go that route.
Loading: well there's the psychic bloodline, and thanks to the arcana it technically removes your issue with am arcane spell casting failure
Also you aren't the only skill monkey. I'm a bard.
I'm a crossblooded sorcerer who turns spells into lightning spells. My plan is to go for lots of offensive spells that use saves instead of attack rolls and try to bump the DCs as high as possible. I'm probably also going to go Dragon Disciple later on. I'm also a tattoo'd sorcerer, so I'll be making magical tattoos later on.
The summoner part is rather secondary (the game didn't start out gestalt). I'm basically using it to make a dragon companion and adding on some more utility spells since crossblooded sorcerers are rather light on spells known.
Also, I just want to express appreciation for your not wanting to step on my toes. :-)
Also, I just want to express appreciation for your not wanting to step on my toes. :-)
It's the right thing to do. You guys have an established group - I need to figure out where I fit in, not jump into a spot someone's already in.
And oh, I'm liking the feeling I'm getting from the Psychic bloodline. I could see Lore as a mystery potentially. Lunar is definitely thematic for a humanoid fox... LF2 is wearing me down...
Actually, I'm liking the combination of the Psychic bloodline and Lore mystery at this point.
I'm looking at the lorekeeper revelation to move the focus from INT to CHA for my knowledge checks. Debating curses - clouded vision, powerless prophesy, wolfscarred face, wrecking mysticism all have thematic reasons to use them. I'm leaning toward clouded vision or powerless prophesy out of those - like she's seeing so much information thanks to her bloodline and mystery that her physical sight is affected or that she's temporarily frozen in response.
Ultimately, she is going to be more of a support caster, buffing and healing folks, while Tatsuo is more focused on dealing damage.
Ainvar, when you have something you like, put together an alias and I will mesh your back story into this story (as best I can)
the rest of you, do you have any more questions for Gabby?
Miyaro is largely together. I built her at third level, Oracle (Lore)/Sorcerer (Psychic) with an emphasis on knowledge skills. I have not selected any feats - Great Fortitude might be wise at this point as it's a definite weakness for her.
The flavor described in my earlier description largely stands - she is always in a bit of trouble with someone (so you may easily have someone try to get rid of her entirely due to her meddling, leading her to look for a route out of town or leading to an opportunity for the heroes to rescue her). She keeps to herself, but is likely to aid someone that she believes she can help, as described earlier.
I will work on a character sheet later. I'm going to have to create the sorcerer side - I just grabbed another bloodline in HL for the moment, but I don't have the Occult book in HL yet. Should not take me long to fix once I have some sleep and time to work.
No. I think we need to do some selling and buying though.
Alright so guys, take a look over the loot sheet in Felix's profile. I'd say we should hang on to the scrolls because Miyaro would definitely be able to use them. The potions we should distribute amongst ourselves also.
How about the rest? Sell it all? I assume we have Mickey's stuff or did that go away with his character?
Miyaro will have armor. Give the bracers to Tatsuo. I have no right to an opinion on anything else.
How old is the girl?
she is young, about 20.
Don't angelkin have a particular look? As in, I did not think you would be mistaken for a typical human...
you can take scion of humanity alternate trait.
you loose celestial language and your subtype changes but you look human
Aha!
In other news, here is the avatar for Miyaro. Her profile is on another machine, but I should get it inserted yet today.
cool, like i said the pace here is a little laid back.
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I have golden hair and my skin and teeth reflects subtly more light than one would expect despite my skin being fairly tan for an anglekin , at times it looks like I might be glowing.
My clothes and hair sometimes blow around even when there is no wind.
I am very strong and healthy looking and have a physique that says that if adventuring doesn't pan out I could try to make it as a mode.
I can also produce a halo.
Just realized I haven't selected my lvl 3 feat.... Hmm what to choose...
Ok, This is what we want to sell. How do we go about doing that?
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Treasures
three bolts of rare fabric from Osirion
Two large tapestries.
three rare original paintings
3 onyx gems worth 50gp each
Weapons
2 Master work Longswords
1 masterwork warhammer
1 mighty composite longbow (+1 strength)
2 small steel shields
1 suit full plate armor (sized for medium person)
Runic Legendary Bastard Sword +1
Other
Ivory ring: ring of animal friendship.
Ring of jumping
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Up for grabs:
The amulet: amulet of proof against detection and location
Bracers of Armor +2
Tome to Boost Charisma +1
Just say who is taking what and I'll remove it from my sheet and you can put it on yours. The amulet of proof against detection might be useful for story purposes at some point so maybe we should hang on to it.
Huh, I had forgotten I apparently have some animal statue things.
Does everybody else wear armor? I had planned on hitting people up with mage armor around this point, but it sounds like I might the only one it would help, in which case I guess I'd take the bracers of armor.
Huh, I had forgotten I apparently have some animal statue things.
Does everybody else wear armor? I had planned on hitting people up with mage armor around this point, but it sounds like I might the only one it would help, in which case I guess I'd take the bracers of armor.
Not speaking for everyone else, but Miyaro wears armor.
I thought Connor had spoken for the Tome earlier. Miyaro is not there yet, but I would absolutely take that tome if I had the chance and someone else didn't take it first. I don't think I have any say in it, but, you know, if nobody wanted it and you forgot to sell it....
:-D
Conner's asked for it twice but doesn't seem to have actually taken it so... you two figure it out :-)
You're free to take the bracers Tatsuo.
Loot's there to be used I sez.
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Huh, I had forgotten I apparently have some animal statue things.
Does everybody else wear armor? I had planned on hitting people up with mage armor around this point, but it sounds like I might the only one it would help, in which case I guess I'd take the bracers of armor.
We do in fact wear armor, we don't use shields though, so there's still four points of AC you could slap on us there if you want.
Isn't Shield a personal spell?
Good point on the cost of headbands vs the tome.
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My mistake. It' is in fact personal. I've oly ever felt the need to cast it on myself and my familiar when I have one, both of those are legal targets.
Don't get me wrong, later game after everyone has headbands and whatnot tomes are awesome, but it's best to go for one with a high bonus because iit doesn't stack and the small one can no longer be sold (except as a mundane self help of exceptional quality, so 100-500 at most)
Alright. Tome will be sold!
I think this will be a trading stop and then we move on.
Oh and new guy, if you're still looking for curses, Branded or Foretold would be good ones thematically I think.
Branded is tempting, but I'm trying to stay within the GM's restrictions and those are not from Paizo products.
No worries, I appreciate all the suggestions.
Miyaro, let me know when you are ready.
all items are sold at 50% value.
to simplify things about haggling, DC 20 diplomacy or profession merchant check, will improve the transaction by 1% per point above the DC but will worsen the transaction by 1% per point below the DC.
Oh, fiddlesticks! I think she's done, but I forgot to fill out her character sheet here! Please proceed - I will post her information shortly.
EDIT: Blast it - I apparently didn't save the text character sheet I was working on. It won't take long to rebuild it from HL output.