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I do not want to set a precedent that just because you are proficient with one weapon you are proficient with every version. If your deity weapon was a sword it would not be every sword you came across. I will allow you to be proficient with the scorpion whip, if you choose it to be the weapon you trained with here and make it your performance weapon.
As far as a favored enemy Undead,Humanoid Gnoll, or Humanoid Orc would fit your history with the Harbingers.
Seeing as how a Scorpion Whip is a Performance Weapon, that makes perfect sense. Consider it done.
So I'm looking at some of the spells an Inquisitor gets, particularly from UC. Several require willing allies at higher levels, making us more badass. Question for the party: Is anybody else currently using a ranged weapon other than me?? If not, would you be willing to grab one, even as a back up??
This will increase both the utility of my spells, as well as my Teamwork feats.
Seeing as how a Scorpion Whip is a Performance Weapon, that makes perfect sense. Consider it done.
So I'm looking at some of the spells an Inquisitor gets, particularly from UC. Several require willing allies at higher levels, making us more badass. Question for the party: Is anybody else currently using a ranged weapon other than me?? If not, would you be willing to grab one, even as a back up??
This will increase both the utility of my spells, as well as my Teamwork feats.
I bought a light crossbow. Not sure it will get much use though, but we'll see.
So I'm looking at some of the spells an Inquisitor gets, particularly from UC. Several require willing allies at higher levels, making us more badass. Question for the party: Is anybody else currently using a ranged weapon other than me?? If not, would you be willing to grab one, even as a back up??This will increase both the utility of my spells, as well as my Teamwork feats.
I have no real melee ability (8 str) - I will use my crossbow most of the time if my spells do not work. I also have lots of class abilities which may or may not work in the Mana Wastes.
Grinning wickedly: First I will fry him - then I will heal him - then I will fry him again - then, should any of you wish to make him understand your feelings, I will heal him again.And with this I mysteriously switch religions to a vengeful Calistrian.
Yeah, Desna's more into exploring different experiences and seeing different sights. I think she should mix up the "frying" a bit, maybe throw in some gutting, or skinning, or something, just to keep it interesting.
Maybe we can combine Desna and Calistria - then we could have a religion of wandering sluts.
Maybe we can combine Desna and Calistria - then we could have a religion of wandering sluts.vengeful sluts. That is a scary notion...
Bah - Calistria already has the vengeful sluts, that is not an issue, I want them to be wandering sluts to bring their low morals to all the good folk of Golarian - farmers, caravan teams, monasteries, teachers, and of course conservative politicians.
Start getting armor to cover all the needed parts except my head.
I say take a Kama if there is one - you can use Flurry of Blows and use it to trip.
That is my wevil intentionI say take a Kama if there is one - you can use Flurry of Blows and use it to trip.
Start getting armor to cover all the needed parts except my head.
Remember, if you use armor, I think you lose the flurry of blows. If we have magic, I think I have mage armor memorized.
Sorry am a little confused as to what my character has at the moment as well.
And still need an answer about using spells and abilities.
Still in the Manawastes, so no spells/abilities. I'm assuming we can still use hero points, right?
A monk loses his AC bonus, as well as his fast movement and flurry of blows abilities.
Yes I won't have flurry of blows but I do need the armor right now and will stick to tripping ability.
Then you should find whatever weapon does the most damage with trip - since you have a fighter level and can use almost any weapon.
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Then you should find whatever weapon does the most damage with trip - since you have a fighter level and can use almost any weapon.A monk loses his AC bonus, as well as his fast movement and flurry of blows abilities.
Yes I won't have flurry of blows but I do need the armor right now and will stick to tripping ability.
I have range with the kama (double chain) so I can trip at range and every successful trip I get an attack on the prone, also got weapon focus with it.
I have to totally disagree with your requiring us to have a feat in order to make called shots.
First of all, even though it is a variant rule, the normal rules in UC do not force one to take a feat to use called shots.
2) Claiming that Weapon Finesse needs to be more attractive is a false statement. Build right(high dex, possibly precision damage), Weapon Finesse is worth its weight in gold to the character who takes it. Couple that with the feat Dervish Dance or the Agile weapon property, which allows you to add Dex to damage, and your not only golden, but platinum as well.
Finally, by forcing one to have either feat, your saying that only dextrous meleers or dedicated arches are the ONLY builds that can make Called Shots. That is incredibly unfair, and seems to almost defeat the purpose of the rules. To me, they seem like an extension of you being really good at striking weak or vulnerable spots with your weapon, regardless of if it's a rapier or a greatsword.
Akor could have been built to make Called Shots via your version, and in fact, probably would have had I gone plain archer. But then I found the really cool Inquisitor feats in UM and UC and felt they were more interesting. Yet, considering he's been using a bow for most of his life, he isn't good enough to hit vital spots?
I am not trying to change your mind, I just want to voice my displeasure with that rule.
This game is still really awesome, and I am very much enjoying myself. HOWEVER, I think you need to seriously consider cloning yourself so one of you can always post on this game.
Yup, weapon finesse is pure sweetness. BUT, being caught flat-footed scares the crap out of me. I mean, just acting last in initiative order would put me down to 13 AC for that round O.o. I wonder if you would have shot one of the gnolls with less armor, if you would have hit them since they would have been considered flat-footed?
I'd have to agree with Akor on this one. Called shots incur quite a bit of penalties and only add up with range. They also require a full round action. It's not really that great of an option - and to require a certain feat - ouch. But, really, the biggest argument here is that we were unaware of this ruling before making and leveling our characters.
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" Alternate Rules I will use- Performance Combat, Words of power can be researched, but not started with. Called Shots can be made if you take Weapon Finesse or Precise Shot feats. Piece Meal Armor rules will apply in arena-type settings only. I will use Hero Points also, having a character background linking your character to the Harbingers will grant you 1 to start."
Remeber this from my first post on this thread? I did tell you guys this, if you had a problem with it you should have brought it up then. Rather then continue to argue about it I will just not use called shots period.
" Alternate Rules I will use- Performance Combat, Words of power can be researched, but not started with. Called Shots can be made if you take Weapon Finesse or Precise Shot feats. Piece Meal Armor rules will apply in arena-type settings only. I will use Hero Points also, having a character background linking your character to the Harbingers will grant you 1 to start."Remeber this from my first post on this thread? I did tell you guys this, if you had a problem with it you should have brought it up then. Rather then continue to argue about it I will just not use called shots period.
Sorry about that. I must have completely overlooked it. I retract my argument. I'll shut up now and crawl into a hole.
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I don't want to come off as harsh, but I do try to keep you all informed with out spoiling the game. In the house version of this my player guide is up to three pages with my take on controversial ruleings and alternate rules, I pride myself on being prepared. I want to continue the game and not spend time debating rules, so we will just not use them for now. I might revisit them at a later date.
Monkeygod, I am glad you are enjoying the game.I am not sure what to make of all of your demands though, I think I have been pretty lenient on some rules for your character. The requirement of percise shot should not have been of any consequence to a life long archer, since that is part of normal progression unless you want -4 to fire into melee. Your feats so far do not reflect that of a dedicated archer though.
My take on weapon finese for the melee requirement is because it seems to fit the idea that you are using finese and not brawn as you are with power-strikes ect. Either way, I would not allow something like called-shots with out some sort of progression, adding this to a preexsisting feat seemed more reasonable then to require a seperate feat.
If you want to continue to debate this in the discussion thread I will, since ultimatly PbP are playtesting to some degree, but as far as this game is concerned we will just leave them out for now.
I don't want to come off as harsh, but I do try to keep you all informed with out spoiling the game. In the house version of this my player guide is up to three pages with my take on controversial ruleings and alternate rules, I pride myself on being prepared. I want to continue the game and not spend time debating rules, so we will just not use them for now. I might revisit them at a later date.
Monkeygod, I am glad you are enjoying the game.I am not sure what to make of all of your demands though, I think I have been pretty lenient on some rules for your character. The requirement of percise shot should not have been of any consequence to a life long archer, since that is part of normal progression unless you want -4 to fire into melee. Your feats so far do not reflect that of a dedicated archer though.
My take on weapon finese for the melee requirement is because it seems to fit the idea that you are using finese and not brawn as you are with power-strikes ect. Either way, I would not allow something like called-shots with out some sort of progression, adding this to a preexsisting feat seemed more reasonable then to require a seperate feat.
If you want to continue to debate this in the discussion thread I will, since ultimatly PbP are playtesting to some degree, but as far as this game is concerned we will just leave them out for now.
Not that I care because I will likely never take weapon feats anyway, but I think that you should add Weapon Focus to the list of feats allowing for called shots. Remember, as noted above, the feats you listed pretty much require high dex characters. If you allow Weapon Focus, or Weapon Focus + some other related feat, then this will pretty much demonstrate the same devotion to a weapon which would demonstrate the training to make called shots.
I don't want to come off as harsh, but I do try to keep you all informed with out spoiling the game. In the house version of this my player guide is up to three pages with my take on controversial ruleings and alternate rules, I pride myself on being prepared. I want to continue the game and not spend time debating rules, so we will just not use them for now. I might revisit them at a later date.
Monkeygod, I am glad you are enjoying the game.I am not sure what to make of all of your demands though, I think I have been pretty lenient on some rules for your character. The requirement of percise shot should not have been of any consequence to a life long archer, since that is part of normal progression unless you want -4 to fire into melee. Your feats so far do not reflect that of a dedicated archer though.
My take on weapon finese for the melee requirement is because it seems to fit the idea that you are using finese and not brawn as you are with power-strikes ect. Either way, I would not allow something like called-shots with out some sort of progression, adding this to a preexsisting feat seemed more reasonable then to require a seperate feat.
If you want to continue to debate this in the discussion thread I will, since ultimatly PbP are playtesting to some degree, but as far as this game is concerned we will just leave them out for now.
I completely understand. I just either skimmed it without much thought about it or missed it. You were clear about it but unfortunately its hard to always communicate to the fullest via text. I'm totally good to go and have been enjoying the game. You have been very clear and have put a lot of effort into this game. Thanks :)
Ok, wow. I was unaware I was or have made demands of any kind. To me, I have asked for certain things, in several cases fully allowable by the Rules As Wriiten and you've declinded, but sometimes offered a compromise that I readily accepted.
Sorry if I have come off as combatitve. I was really excited about my suggested use of a Hero Point thinking that since it was a very cool use(in my mind of course) that you would allow. But you said it wouldn't fly, so then I looked into doing a Called Shot, only to realize your rules were different from what appears in UC. The reason I never said anything before now was because it wasn't until last night that I looked up the rules on making a Called Shot. So now two of my cool ideas have been denied which as far as this specific combat goes, has taken all the fun out it. I'm reduced to being an archer fighter who just happens to have a fancy name, and on top of that, due to not meeting extra pre-reqs, I'm not even good enough of an archer to single out a body part on my enemy, even though I've obviously chosen to train with the longbow more so than any other weapon(I have Weapon Focus(Longbow).
Further fustrating me is that I'm also DMing 3 games myself and I try to pride myself on saying "screw the rules, let's go with what's fun" for my players whenever possible.
Also, had you had dropped us some kind of hint about being in the Manawastes, without spoiling anything, i might have taken Point Blank Shot at 1st lvl and then Presice Shot at 3rd, but instead it was a total surprise.
I said it before and I will say it again: I absolutely love this game, you've been a great DM so far, I'm just fustrated that my two cool ideas weren't allowed and I guess that's made me kinda combatitve. Please, please do not think about walking out on us. This has rapidly become a favorite game of the 7 or so I'm involved in.
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Once again, I did drop hints about the manawastes. Check the Campaign Tab. Nex/Geb/Manawastes important for first part of game.
RAW does not allow you to take Judgement Surge early, nor Scorpion Whip profiencey just because you have Whip. I did allow you those things. You are a versitle fighter in archery/whips and the Divine.
Weapon(Focus) is not a bad prereq either, but it would limit you to only called shots with that weapon. Had the argument been framed in with that as a consideration I might have accepted it. I will probably allow that in future games.
I would just like to clarify two things:
1) When I was asking about Judgement Surge, I was actually asking for clarification. See the Feat's description says:
Once per day, the power of your faith surges, further empowering your judgments.
Prerequisites: Judgment class feature.
Benefit: Once per day, you can treat your class level for your judgment class feature as if it were 3 higher than normal. If you have multiple judgments active at the same time, this benefit applies to all of them.
Notice the Pre-Req? It's just the Judgment class feature. However, check the master list in either the SRD or the book itself, and you'll note it also lists Judgement 2/day.
Now, going way back to WotC 3.5 days, the official answer to this discrepancy has always been "Go with the feat's description, not any list". What I was asking for was if that was OK with you as well.
2) Here's what Scorpion Whip says:
See that last line? Kinda sounds like if your proficient in with a whip(which Akor is) you're also proficient with a Scorp Whip.
I think it really means that you can drip and disarm just like you can with a normal whip, as I don't think you normally can with a Scorp Whip.
For the sake of the party, I would love to agree with you monkey, but look at the web page:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/combat/gladiatorWeapons.h tml#scorpion-whip
While its description for the Scorpion Whip is as you have listed, in the table for the Gladiator weapons, it only lists the Scorpion Whip as "Performance" while several other weapons are listed as "Performance, Reach" or "Performance, Trip" - thus, it seems that while you can use the Scorpion Whip with regular whip proficiency, I do not think that the Scorpion Whip has the disarm and trip functions.
For the sake of the party, I would love to agree with you monkey, but look at the web page:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/combat/gladiatorWeapons.h tml#scorpion-whipWhile its description for the Scorpion Whip is as you have listed, in the table for the Gladiator weapons, it only lists the Scorpion Whip as "Performance" while several other weapons are listed as "Performance, Reach" or "Performance, Trip" - thus, it seems that while you can use the Scorpion Whip with regular whip proficiency, I do not think that the Scorpion Whip has the disarm and trip functions.
Yea, see I don't know. I thought it allowed one who was proficient with whips to use a scorpion whip as well. But then I re-read it, and it sounds different, so I don't know.
What I am thinking is that the Scorpion Whip, if I am reading it correctly, is a marital weapon. while a normal whip is exotic. Meaning unless you took a feat, not even the master of weapons the Fighter, can use it. BUT if you do happen to be proficient with both, then you can trip and disarm with the Scorpion Whip.
I say shoot a question to the Ask Jacobs thread. I am told that he usually responds fairly quickly and you should get a response back fast.
In my logical view, since the Scorpion whip is essentially a regular whip with metal at the ends, it would operate similarly to a regular whip --> thus, one proficiency for both. But, would not function the same as the regular whip for disarm/trip since the ends are now less flexible and thus not able to wrap around weapons/legs.
I say shoot a question to the Ask Jacobs thread. I am told that he usually responds fairly quickly and you should get a response back fast.
In my logical view, since the Scorpion whip is essentially a regular whip with metal at the ends, it would operate similarly to a regular whip --> thus, one proficiency for both. But, would not function the same as the regular whip for disarm/trip since the ends are now less flexible and thus not able to wrap around weapons/legs.
Funny, I just did that. I've read that entire thread, and yes, he does respond fairly quickly, usually. It's a great read as well, if you have the will to try and catch up, lol
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Judgment twice a day, this is a level prereq. As rules as written would not allow someone to take this at first level.
Whip is an exotic one handed weapon.
Scorpion Whip is an exotic light weapon.
As I said befor it would be like argueing because your deity had sword that you could use a bastard sword and a twohanded sword.
This is all acedemic since I already allowed you these things, but they are not RAW, these are comprimises I've made. It seems you are ok with me makeing the comprimises to the rules when they suit you, but when they don't you want to pull out the rule book.
Lets get one thing straight, the book is a guideline that is all. I will try to make my ruleings fair and consistant, that is all I can promise you.
I'm not sure where you think you were making a compromise, given that theentry states outright that proficient whip users can use a scorpion whip. As for the table entry stating only performance, I can see the argument against disarm and trip because they're not in the table, but you can't say it doesn't have reach, even though reach was omitted. If reach should be there, but isn't, I wonder if somebody just got a little copy-paste happy with his Excel sheet...
Of course, now that scorpion whip is a light weapon for some reason, I want to make myself a character with a whip in one hand for the maneuvers, and a scorpion whip in the other hand for damage.
No, Nimon that's actually not what I am doing. I am "pulling out the rulebook" to expalin to you why I asked the questions about Judgement Surge and Scorpion Whip in the first place because I was legit confused about them.
You sound as if you think I'm trying to bend rules and get away with things I should be unable to without DM fiat, when that's not at all true.
Read the line at the end of Scorpion Whip and tell me what you think it means?? Where it says "if your proficient with whips you can use a scorpion whip as a whip"....
That was what I was confused over. I wasn't tryin to do something I shouldn't I was trying to get clarity.
I have since asked James Jacobs and he said it means if you are proficient with a whip you are also proficient with a scorpion whip, but you can not trip or disarm with it.
Again, I asked him not to force you to rule in my favor but because I (Monkeygod) was honestly confused.
I have also asked him about Judgement Surge. Again there is is confusion on my part because two different sets of pre-reqs are listed.
In the large table of feats, Judgement Surge has both the Judgement and Judgement 2/day class features. However, when you look to the feat's actual entry, it only lists Judgement. I tried to show you this above, but for some reason you either didn't see it or ignored it or something. I don't know.
What I do know is I am *NOT* trying to force my view of the rules on you nor am trying to weasel my way around the rules or any other such behavior.
I am a player and a person who is straight up, honestly confused and I was attempting to get some clarification.
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The scorpion whip appears to have been updated in the PRD and is differant then in my copy of the UC. I will take that as offical errata.
Monkeygod I did have trouble with the tabs at first that is true, the differance is that I did not attack my GM with statments like -
"Also, had you had dropped us some kind of hint about being in the Manawastes, without spoiling anything, i might have taken Point Blank Shot at 1st lvl and then Presice Shot at 3rd, but instead it was a total surprise. "
And even after pointing out this mistake, instead of an appology like the one Xideus gave me I get a smart response. In the end did I not give you the scorpion whip? do you not have judgement surge? Do you have any other complaints other than disagreeing with my rules on called-shots or not allowing your CN God to intervene against a CE God's holy day in the Manawastes?
Ok all - before someone gets alienated and storms out - which would be bad if it was Monkeygod, and much worse if it were Nimon, lets just let this one rest. Jacobs has posted that apparently whip/scorpion whip are one proficiency, but that you cannot trip/disarm with the scorpion whip.
We are in the Mana Wastes - magic does not work - which makes my wizard/cleric wimp much more difficult to play, but also makes it all more interesting. Lets finish off these mongrels and then I can tell you all what was in the spoiler for me - until then I am going to keep riling up the crowd regarding these particular gnoll's lack of proper hygiene and lack of combat readiness.
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I rule you can trip/disarm with it, which does go along with the new ruling that you can trip with any weapon, but if it is not a "trip" weapon you do not get the bonuses added and can not avoid AoOs by droping the weapon.
I appologize for any mis-communications from the past to everyone. I have learned a lot from this experiance. Even with the tabs, I have to say I prefer google wave for this sort of thing.
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I want to address knowledge checks just to clear up any confusion. I allow knowledge checks as a free action(technically they are a no-action, but end result is same), but typically I will require you to decide what knowledge skill/skills you want to roll and when. Sometimes I might ask for a knowledge skill along side a perception check, or if it is part of the campaign itself(prophecies ect.).
I hope that clears it up a bit, I do not want to seem like I am intentionally with-holding information, but I do want you to work for it a little bit.
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Hmm... as a free action I could make all those checks in one round.
How about making it a swift action instead and then you would only be allowed one per round and the player would have to give it their best shot each round till he got the right check.
You can make them all sure, but they are seperate checks. I think not wanting to keep typing the dice syntax would prevent over usage. Also you have to stick with the check you made, you cant keep giving me knowledge arcane very round because your last one sucked, you have to wait until conditions change(guidance on you ect).
Also If I made them swift actions, this would limit things like judgements, metamagic feats ect. I do not mind if you want to roll them all, but only certain ones will apply for certain information. Sometimes it is beneficial to roll more then one, since some things fall under several categories.
This will also encourage you all to invest in knowledge skills(of corse I do not have to encourage the bard I am sure, but hey that is one of your strong points so use it.)
Xara and Trig are updated.
updated