The Forgotten God (Table 2) (Inactive)

Game Master Rednal

Just to let you know, I probably won't be able to respond well for the next few days since I sprained/fractured my wrist in an accident. So expect highly marginal posts.

Thanks for letting me know, and I hope you get better soon. ^^

One of the nice things about solo campaigns is that you're never holding anyone else up. XD Take whatever time you need to heal properly - the game will be waiting once you're ready to continue, and there's no real rush to move on before then.

For my last post, I forgot to make a knowledge check on the giant. And, is it possible to wisdom or int check to determine if my fight was loud enough to be heard?

Knowledge Nature?: 1d20 + 14 + 2 ⇒ (3) + 14 + 2 = 19

Intelligence?: 1d20 + 4 + 2 ⇒ (17) + 4 + 2 = 23

By the way, for my 3rd level rogue talent I think I'll pick Combat Trick->Improved TWF?

Without knowing the full structure and design of the house, it's impossible to estimate just how well the sound has traveled. However, the giant doesn't look worried... take that as you will. XD

Right. Do I know what it is though?

Also, I've been forgetting to bring it up, but when I sneak attack I get a +4 dodge bonus to AC that round. There were a few times that might have come up. And if I sneak attack more than once a round, does my dodge bonus increase, or the number of rounds the dodge bonus persists increase?

I haven't checked the gameplay thread yet - busy with some other things.

You do not get multiple bonuses for sneak attacking more than once (either in terms of strength or duration) unless the ability specifically says otherwise. As a general rule, you can't get multiple benefits from the same source.

I'm going to start tracking resources at the top of my character page to make things easier. Too much to track by posts.

Also, my hand is doing a lot better now.

By the way, what do you think about the use of NPCs in this campaign thus far? Any whose actions you particularly liked or disliked (as a player), or whose presence you'd like to see more/less of?

Fhanys has been cool, I like her a lot. So was Fes, though I'm curious to how much an adventure plot hook she was. I do like reoccuring NPCs so I hope some of the ones I've met so far show up again sometimes. Yidrah is likewise entertaining.

One thing that bugs me is that I seem to often get my questions brushed aside or not given a straight answer when I ask something relatively simple. Sometimes it gets rather frustrating.

I do plan for Fes to return at some point - right now, she's basically busy training, though I suspect she won't be able to keep up quite as well as you grow in power. XD She's good, very good, but not Goddess-level good.

I'll try to pay more attention in the future - if there's no response to something specifically asked in-game, it generally means there's no result there.

Regarding Explosive Runes, is it possible to intentionally fail a dispel check to detonate them? Does using dispel magic detonate multiple explosive runes, if they're all put together? Or do explosive runes detonate each other?

Can blindsense detect me if I'm invisible?

Am I within range of its Aura of Lassitude?

Would it be immune to my Annihilating Strike?

1) Creative idea! Mmm... unfortunately, no. Dispel Magic states that you automatically succeed on dispels against spells you cast - not that you can automatically succeed, but that you flat-out do. I suspect that's intentional, designed to stop excessively creative use of failed dispels. XD

1b) Loophole: Explosive Runes says you "can" read the runes without triggering them. It doesn't say you have to. But note that Spellcasting will definitely draw the creature's attention, and if you're not touching things, it becomes visible.

2) Blindsense, mmm... *Scratches head* Honestly, I think arguments could be made either way, but I'm going to say it could. I think of your Undetectable as primarily working against the usual senses - so it could thwart echolocation, scent, etc., but if enemies are using a non-typical method of noticing things, they might be able to pinpoint your location somehow. That's why Glitterdust still works on you, for example - even if they can't see you directly, the outline lets them figure out where you are.

3) Yes. I made a secret roll for that when you first entered its area of effect, and you passed it.

4) Yes. It's Tier 5 - and no, I didn't arbitrarily decide that just to make your power not work. I'm using the Mythic Monster Manual for this, and that's what it's listed at in there.

Also, note that you don't have to fight this creature. You already got the journal with the information in it, and that's the important thing here - this creature is here because of the backstory, but it's basically just a (really dangerous) bonus foe you can challenge for XP and loot.

Given its immunities, special abilities, and HP? No I don't think I could beat this guy unless I could plink away at him with Magic Missile all day from a distance. It should know I'm there right since its blindsense is so long range? But can it precisely locate me?

If I leave him there and come back later does he get tougher?

He does not get tougher.

......Honestly, looking over everything, I feel like this creature is your natural enemy. XD I'm actually kind of happy that something from the Mythos is legitimately threatening to you.

Actually, after I did some number crunching, I don't think he's that hard to beat - provided I dump a whole lot of MM into him and he can't reach me.

So I'm going to try that. After I get a little tricky first. Can multiple Explosive runes be read together? (I'm assuming even if it can't understand common it can still 'read' a page of Explosive runes).

Were you basing those numbers on the d20pfsrd version of the creature? Because - and I can't emphasize this enough - what you see there isn't always what you fight. Templates and Mythic versions of creatures happen. XD Especially because I now have a whole bestiary of mythic monsters to challenge you with.

As for multiples of the runes... Iiiiiii'm gonna say no. Otherwise, with enough time (like, say, a month or two on the road), you could make absurdly powerful weapons and just kill every boss with 200d6 no-saving-throw damage. It would, quite frankly, be game-breaking. XD;

Ah, I didn't realize it wasn't staying where it was. Can I alter my actions to instead ready that spell/attack and stay in place instead of moving then casting?

Yup. Just remember that for Epyon to attack, he'll have to have line of sight/effect to the blob, which means being at the bottom of the pit instead of flying safely above it. Where would you like him to be?

At the bottom then. Would 20ft from the pit entrance be too far?

Should I post again?

*Gestures to the map* There's, uh, not much room. If they're at the bottom of the pit, they're pretty much in the room. Taking your actions as readied, I'll resolve them now. ^^

Doesn't being invisible ignore all Dex, and Dodge bonuses when attacking?

Usually, yes. There are two important notes here, though.

1) Improved Blind-Fight.

2) The creature operates pretty much exclusively with Blindsense - it doesn't actually have an anatomy, much less eyes to fool. Incorporeal oozes are pretty high on the weirdness scale in terms of how they interact with the world. o_O

You still get total concealment from it when you're invisible, though, so at least there's that.

The wording of force anchor is that a creature subject to it can't move through an area which is smaller than its size. Given that it is trying to feed off Epyon (thus is at least within the pit) it shouldn't be able to move correct? I'm assuming there's nothing it can do to prevent the second one from hitting.

Also just in case, I did go back and reedit my action because I realized I could do something different.

It was exposed in the pit when making its (ranged) feeding, yes. Being able to use that while totally concealed would have been a bit too absurd, even for a mythic monster. XD

*Flicks through, then pauses*

Feinting only denies the dexterity bonus to your next melee attack, and Force Anchor is a ranged technique. Are you sure that's what you'd like to do?

You can also use Bluff to feint in combat, causing your opponent to be denied his Dexterity bonus to his AC against your next attack.

That's not what it says under the Bluff rules. Where are you getting that?

The Combat page, with the full rules text on Feinting.

Feinting is a standard action. To feint, make a Bluff skill check. The DC of this check is equal to 10 + your opponent's base attack bonus + your opponent's Wisdom modifier. If your opponent is trained in Sense Motive, the DC is instead equal to 10 + your opponent's Sense Motive bonus, if higher. If successful, the next melee attack you make against the target does not allow him to use his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any). This attack must be made on or before your next turn.

When feinting against a nonhumanoid you take a –4 penalty. Against a creature of animal Intelligence (1 or 2), you take a –8 penalty. Against a creature lacking an Intelligence score, it's impossible. Feinting in combat does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

That's just spectacular. Wow Paizo, I guess you really wanted ranged rogues to absolutely SUCK.

Luckily, I went back and reread the Improved Blindfight feat. Which has a qualifier you failed to point out. The Colour only gets the benefit of it if I'm within 30ft.

So I'll change my actions to: Move at least 30ft away (If I'm not already) and use a point of Ki to turn invisible and make it flat footed. THEN Force Anchor it.

Rogues and Ninjas do tend to be at their best when they're up close and stabby, though I bet you could make some kind of archer or shuriken build if you really wanted to. No class is perfect at all times and all ranges, though - most tend to be one or the other. Unfortunately, I couldn't find any feats to let you feint at range, even in the Hero's Handbook - they seem pretty firm on that being melee-only. v.v

As for moving away, though... *Gestures to the map* The (huge) blob is roughly in the middle of the room - there's nowhere 30 feet away except up the hole leading to the chamber, and that removes line of sight.

(I wasn't kidding when I said this creature was basically your natural enemy. If you feel like your current resources aren't enough to defeat it, you can always choose head back for now and come back after making some additional preparations. ^^ There's really nothing - except maybe Sevia's Pride drawback - that's forcing you to stay and try to kill the thing, and it's kind of like a dragon in that you'll probably need a way of specifically negating its advantages in order to beat it.)

Uhg. For real? And let me guess, the room is not more than 30ft tall either?

Fine, I'll change my attack to a Magic Missile (so add 8 extra damage), turn invisible again, and fly up the pit somewhat.

The areas are 5 to 15 feet tall, excluding the pits. And yeah, it's a pretty nasty foe in general. XD;

Still waiting for your reply. Magic Missile->Invis->Head up the Pit.

I haven't forgotten! Today's a bit busy for me, but I plan to get a reply up sometime this evening. ^^

What kind of action is it to fall?

I was wondering if it is possible to "fall" away from an enemy during their turn.

Falling isn't something you do - it's something that happens to you. Specifically, it happens only during your turn when you're above the ground and not flying somehow (descending =/= falling), as each round is technically simultaneous - you can't fall during their turn because you are falling in your own, and that's the same 'time' (unless you have some power or ability permitting it!). The rules are a little weird when it comes to time and action that way, and it's best to not think about them too deeply.

Level: 8
4HP CON
+1 CHA

Ninja 8:
+14 Skill Points
+1 Ki
+1 Ref
Ninja Trick ?
Fearsome Strike

Sorcerer 8:
+1/2 Cold/Electric Resist (Favored Class Bonus)
+1 Will
+1/day 3rd Spell
+4/day 4th Spells
+1 0th Spell Known
+1 4th Spell Known

Paladin 4:
(Oath of Vengeance Archetype)
1d20 @ 15 HP
+1 BAB
+1 Fort
2d6 Lay On Hands
+1/day Smite Evil
+2/day 1st Paladin Spell
Channel Wrath

Still undecided on that Ninja Trick. I believe I still need to select that third ability for my legendary sword as well - are those extra mythic rules out yet?

They are! Sadly, there's not much for legendary items - one of the items kind of eats souls (which may be a bit outside your portfolio), but there's also this one that might be worth picking up. It requires taking Legendary Item a second time, so I don't think you can get it right now, but...

Soul Safe: Your item carries a part of your immortal spark within it, and unless the item is destroyed you cannot be permanently slain. If you are killed, your body reforms 24 hours later in the nearest open space within 30 feet of the item. If you are affected by a death effect or energy drain while wearing or wielding the item, you may expend one use of legendary power as an immediate action to negate that effect; this cost is doubled if the effect is a mythic effect and tripled if the mythic rank or tier of the effect’s creator exceeds yours. An item must have the eternal bond legendary ability and be a minor or major artifact to have this ability. This is a persistent ability.

There's also all the feats you could possibly want - and Mythic Class Abilities (which are effectively Tier 1 Universal abilities that merely require you to have a specific class ability before taking them). A few of those might be a bit too unbalancing for this campaign, but there are - for example - ways to get a full second bloodline (apparently all of the arcana, but you only choose one spell, kinda like Cleric domains), casting metamagic without increasing casting time, an improved version of your Bleeding Attack, etc.

Otherwise, looks pretty good. ^^ Let me know if there's any class abilities or mythic feats you're particularly interested in seeing some rules for. (Note: They only did the basic class abilities, not stuff from archetypes.)

So even if I haven't slept yet, can I use a part of my mythic power to cast Dimension Door as if I had access to 4th level spells?

Congratulations on reaching Level 8, and you can make the updates the next time you rest for eight hours.

When I say "the next time you rest for eight hours", I do not mean "edit your alias and add the things right away". I mean "edit your alias and add the things the next time you rest for eight hours". There may be times when you're not done for the day and I planned for you to finish things up at your previous level. This is actually relevant with magic, because an improved level might grant you access to new powers and capabilities that you weren't expected to have access to for a given quest or challenge, and it could make certain things trivially easy.

( I know that might sound a little nit-picky, but balancing these games is hard as it is, and I'm trying to keep things approximately on the level I planned for them to happen at. XD; Keeping things challenging is VERY important to me, and a major theme of the game, so I try to avoid unplanned power increases as much as possible. )

So... no 4th level spells yet. XD;

Ah, okay. Never intended to cheat or anything with extra level, just a matter of habit. Usually when I play games we don't rest to level.

The reason I was asking because I wasn't sure whether you meant "rest and level up" or "rest and get your level powers" because mythic spellcasting says you can use whatever level spell on your list that you have access to.

Fortunately, this won't be an issue very often - you'll typically level at the end of an adventure, and rest won't be far behind. ^^

To clarify, shouldn't Annihilating Strike should be able to blow up the building no problem? If I hit a wall of solid rock, I would get 24 squares (each of 5ft height), but a building is filled with empty space. A 5ft wall 1ft deep should give me 600 squares worth of destructive power.

I suppose that would depend on how, exactly, it was interpreted. Here's the full rules text:

When the deity strikes with a weapon or natural weapon, the opponent struck might be obliterated. Creatures, attended objects, and magic items must make Fortitude saves (DC 20 + the deity’s rank + the damage dealt) or be reduced to -10 hit points and killed outright. Unattended, nonmagical objects are obliterated. The deity can destroy up to 1,000 cubic feet (a 10-foot cube) of nonliving matter per rank, so the ability destroys only part of any very large object or structure targeted.

The text is explicitly clear that the power is only intended to destroy part of very large objects and structures. Of course, it doesn't explicitly define 'very large', but I think most reasonable interpretations would accept "the biggest building in town, noticeably larger than anything else in the area" as qualifying.

The destruction itself is a little more ambiguous, but I am trying to interpret its text as written. In other words, when it says 1000 cubic feet (a 10-foot cube), it means 1000 cubic feet in the shape of a 10-foot cube, not "1000 cubic feet in any shape the user wants".

So you could do a right angle (To create big stairs and reach a subterranean place in relative safety, for example), make a sort of gentle curve, a line straight out, a horizontal line, a pit right in front of you to drop an enemy down into... and yes, if you destroyed enough of the area under a building, you might be able to outright collapse it*. Ten-foot cubes are the limits of shaping, though.

*Also, note that as originally written, a deity would start at destroying eleven cubes of material - because that's the minimum rank to learn the power - and could do it at will. A minute or so of determined effort on their part would be enough to destroy almost any building around, assuming they didn't simply alter reality to get rid of the place.

Wait, so you didn't write it?

Because the way I read it, "10ft cube" just means "a measurement which the player will be familiar with" I mean it doesn't say either way whether it has to be a 10ft cube or not, just that 1,000 cubic feet is equal to a 10 foot cube.

Well, if that's how you want to play it I'm bummed out but okay. I mean, this power is like SO situational its ridiculous - can only destroy a small amount of space, flat out won't work against high tier mythic creatures - no secondary effect or anything, costs A LOT of mythic power, to the point I could just cast 5 high level spells instead.

I don't suppose for the requirements of the mythic power I could substitute a CON 25 in place of a STR 25?

Nope - I did not write the powers. Divine Abilities are from here.

And it's not so much that I dislike the idea of shaping the power as I'm try to be consistent about its rules. XD; If I allow "turn ten-foot cubes into flat destruction one-foot deep", there's no logical argument against even finer control of the details... and that quickly leads into weird things like instant buildings complete with flipping panels and traps in the entry way, or super-narrow destruction that destabilizes a far larger structure than could normally be affected. If you get to anything below the cubes, the only stopping point is an arbitrary ruling - and the intent of this ability, as near as I can determine, is just blanket, localized destruction.

These're literal godly powers, and I'm doing everything I can to stop them from being completely game-breaking. XD; This one will grow more efficient over time, though - you should be able to reduce it to 3 MP/use by the end, and this would be FAR more efficient for quickly moving a lot of material out of the way when compared to, say, repeated Wild Arcana castings of Stone Shape. It also works on things most spells don't. All divine abilities are intended to be minimally useful until the late game, where they'll start to show their true value - this is an intentional, thematic representation of your inability to fully wield your divine power.

Oh cool. There are some pretty sweet abilities on there...

...some of which I would have rather gotten than that second divine ability.

I don't suppose it's possible to undermine the building's integrity with 3 10ft cubes by knocking out its supports and causing it to collapse?

I have to save SOMETHING for the higher levels. XD Though as your DEX continues to go up and the proportional cost of using the power goes down, I think being able to get the full bonus to your AC for a big fight may start to look increasingly attractive...

As for the building, here's the map again. If you can find three connected cubes that would destroy the place - feel free to ask for advice from any engineering types you know, or others here on Paizo's boards - then yes. I'll accept any reasonable explanation.

That's a blanket 'yes', by the way - if you're in any building and can figure out a way to destroy its supports with the range you have available, it's possible to do. ^^ Also, note that the plan is for you to hit 4th Tier this level - so if you wait a bit to destroy the place, you'll have a little more range to work with.

I guess I'll have to alter my post to - "leave the church alone" because I can't.

I don't suppose I could convince you to allow me 5 by 5 cubes instead of 10 by 10 for flexibility?

Although, now that I think about it, would 5 fireballs be enough to light the sucker on fire and burn it down? What's it made of?

The building is constructed of 'fieldstones', which I'm assuming is, in fact, some sort of rock. XD

(Presumably because it would be strange for the demon lord of water to have an easily-burned church.)

As for five-foot squares... mmm... for the sake of it being usable at all, yes, but only for reasonably simple shapes. So you could make an arc, for example, but not a maze.

Okay, with five foot squares I could knock out a huge gap in all the walls for room E3 in a large square, which would definitely cause everything east of E2 to collapse onto itself and totally wreck the building.

It's not "annihilate the building" but it is a close second.