The Dark is Rising - WotW Part I (COMPLETED) (Inactive)

Game Master Darkness Rising

I am not arguing with your ruling, but I do want to point out where it differes from the official ruling so that we can be certain that we are all on the same page, rules-wise.

the description for Continual Flame states that it trumps a darkness spell of equal or lower level.

False. The last line of the spell description lists a general rule for all light spells: Light spells counter and dispel darkness spells of an equal or lower level.

Note the almost identical descriptor at the end of the darkness spell: Darkness can be used to counter or dispel any light spell of equal or lower spell level.

These only mean that one can use them to a) counter, as in ready an action to counterspell a spell of the opposite descriptor that is of equal or lesser spell level, or b) dispel, as in touch the exact same object upon which the other spell had been cast in order to negate both spells.

What we are dealing with are two existing spells overlapping in their area of effect. In this, the rules are very clear: darkness spells trump a light spell of equal or lesser level where they overlap (with the exception of Sunlight, which negates both in areas of overlap). See points 3-6 of the Paizo blog Etna posted for relevant rulings.

Spells with the light descriptor only raise the light level within an area of a darkness descriptor spell if they are higher level than the darkness descriptor spell.

Again, NOT trying to be difficult, I just prefer it to be very clear when something is a house ruling or not. :) If your ruling is that we reverse RAW and state that light spells trump equal or lesser darkness spells in area of overlap, so be it. If that is not your intention, then, as I suggested, say that the archons have the SL 3 cleric version of the spell as their SLA and it all works out fine for this fight anyway. Either way is a house rule, just one has much further reaching effects, and it is always good to make sure everyone is absolutely clear on what rules are being used. Game on!

And there goes another Villain Point, but the natural 20 was too good to ignore. Hope it did not blind me to potentially fatal repercussions...

AU, thanks for that; I am indeed going to rule instead that light spells trump darkness where the two are of the same level. For this campaign, where most of your adversaries are human, it's just too great an advantage. That said, most of your enemies can't cast light spells so it shouldn't nerf you too much. Plus, you can always just kill the lightbearers.

Thanks, DMD, good to know!

Wow, Erevan, fantastic crit!

Oh, and that reminds me, I forgot to ask last night even though it came up in my rolls: please remind me, are we using critical fumbles? Because, if so, I guess I fumbled on my first attack this round. I know we dropped DMA's auto-crit on 20, auto-fumble on 1 rule, but can't remember whether we decided to keep fumbles at all...

For killing Lord Thomas Havelyn, Paladin of Mitra and Knight of the Alerion, you gain 4,800 XP.

AU: a big, resounding NO to critical fumbles. Life is difficult enough as it is.

Nice! And that is an awesome description! Thanks for that DM Darkness. :-)

As for Critical Fumbles, I do believe they are out.

Fitting that he was felled by the antipaladin. Well worth the villain point, I would say! :D

And cool, loud and clear. Those first few crits/fumbles were pretty amusing though. I enjoyed smacking that guard in the vulnerables with my stolen quarterstaff. :P

(I should totally be asleep right now, since I have work from 8am-9pm tomorrow. But... insomnia!)

Go to bed safe in the knowledge of a job well evilly done!

Too excited for how this fight is going. It is the Archon(s) next, correct? And then the top of the round? And I do believe Erevan just done gone and pissed 'em off. :P

Also, Erevan, I don't see that you specified into which square you took your 5-step to reach Havelyn. Was it J6 or J7 (straddling Felrin's bleeding body)? I assume you didn't step into the grease in J5. Just trying to visualize and plan my next round's attacks. :D

No, the archon teleported in at the start of the round (no surprise round created), so just waiting on Felrin; then it's into Round 4. If he doesn't post in a bit I might roll the stabilise check for him just to keep things moving.

Ah, fair enough. Either way, Archon goes next (not including poor Fearless Leader's stabalize check). :D

Your sympathy will move him deeply, I'm sure - or it would if he were aware of it :D

So, who's up for promotion to the Fearless Leader spot if he snuffs it?

Too excited for how this fight is going. It is the Archon(s) next, correct? And then the top of the round? And I do believe Erevan just done gone and pissed 'em off. :P

Also, Erevan, I don't see that you specified into which square you took your 5-step to reach Havelyn. Was it J6 or J7 (straddling Felrin's bleeding body)? I assume you didn't step into the grease in J5. Just trying to visualize and plan my next round's attacks. :D

Not in the grease's effect, no. And though it might be a little fun to stand over Felrin's de... err, unconscious and leaking body, I think J6 will do nicely.

As for the promotion, Erevan is more of a from the shadows kind of guy. Etna, on the other hand, will be turning into a devil sooner or later.

*Glees as Havelyn catches fire and explodes*
I do so enjoy fireworks.

Those first few crits/fumbles were pretty amusing though. I enjoyed smacking that guard in the vulnerables voonerables with my stolen quarterstaff. :P

Now, what are the chances of a doctor standing on one leg with his hat on backwards and a handkerchief in his mouth hitting a guard's voonerables with a stolen quarterstaff?

As for the promotion, Erevan is more of a from the shadows kind of guy. Etna, on the other hand, will be turning into a devil sooner or later.

Funny, I was going to propose Erevan as soon to be substitute leader. :P

Did I already said that I love this campaign and you guys? <3

A million to one.

And we hate you too. Hey, we are evil. Is not everything backwards now? :-P

Tkaara - hold your horses, it's not your go yet!

Ah, sorry thought everyone had gone. Forgot about the lightning bugs.

Gonna be away for a few hours. That is Tkaara's action unless something major changes.

Something major changed.

EDIT: Father Donnagin's AC is 21 (T 11, FF 21)

Can Erevan see Father Donnagin's holy symbol? I.e. can it be stolen or disarmed?

Yeah, another something major changed. I hope it doesn't engender too much retcon, but the wording of Unusual Anatomy doesn't leave much room for interpretation: "Your anatomy is slightly unusual, giving you a 15% chance to ignore any critical hit."

Fortunately (in terms of retcon, at least), I didn't have a lot of effect on the archon, so the doctor's round 4 action probably doesn't have to change. And since Tkaara acted before round 4 actually started (and I appreciate the risks she took in getting to Felrin to heal him!), she should able to revise her action without major complications.

I'll get a round 4 post up in a bit, once the outcome of my round 3 actions have been absorbed.

Just so everyone knows, I'm in California, so all the waiting for me to roll to stabilize happened between 11:20 PM and 6:30 AM on a Friday night.

Felrin, you seem to have a -12 penalty on your first two attack rolls.

Thanks, fixed. Funny what an = sign does in the wrong place in bit of die roll code.

No excitement about the Unusual Anatomy, Erevan!? Come on, man, you're a doctor! I, for one, was quite pleased about the outcome.

You do have a point there. I rather liked the ultra-dense bone thing actually. After all, extra ribs are known to happen.

Cervical rib

And Felrin is a tiefling, so if it is to find someone born with it, it may as well be a devil-spawn. ;-)

It does make the whole "substitute leader" and "standing over your body" things a little moot, so boo to you for that. No promotion for anyone... yet. :-P

Well remembered on the unusual anatomy! Very satisfying when these little things actually play a significant role. No major retcon needed, glad to see you alive and well.

Can Erevan see Father Donnagin's holy symbol? I.e. can it be stolen or disarmed?

Yes, it's quite prominent round his neck. There's a Steal combat manoeuvre, but it provokes an AoO.

My guess is that Tkaara, Etna and Felrin aren't going to be wild about logging in just to roll a Reflex save to see if they escape the whirlwind; if they haven't posted in a bit I will roll for them to keep things moving (pun not intended). Although given my saving throw rolls thus far, they may not thank me for that...

I'm around and will roll my own save - but even if we don't make the Reflex save, we can take other actions, as per the whirlwind description.

At this point, I'm waiting to see if Ottakar's attack finished off the archon, so I'll know whether to attack it or move to Donnagin (assuming I get free of the whirlwind).

I'm around and will roll my own save - but even if we don't make the Reflex save, we can take other actions, as per the whirlwind description.

Yes, I posted a summary in the mechanics spoiler the first time; in the retcon post I was on my phone so I just kept it brief.

At this point, I'm waiting to see if Ottakar's attack finished off the archon, so I'll know whether to attack it or move to Donnagin (assuming I get free of the whirlwind).

It's fair to say that Ottakar's attacks did little harm; the thing has DR 10 and more than 100 hit points

Yup, will roll my own save: been busy all day, will get to update in a bit.

EDIT: And I have to throw Donnagin the magic ball of fire. <.<

Ah, crap. I should have saved the second Smite Good for the archon. Sorry guys, got a bit carried away by the priest...

Well remembered on the unusual anatomy! Very satisfying when these little things actually play a significant role.

I completely agree, makes it lots of fun.

On the lantern archon - having run across this before, I'll point out that their stats change some when they go into the 9-light gestalt bundle. More specifically, they only have DR 5/evil and magic.

On the lantern archon - having run across this before, I'll point out that their stats change some when they go into the 9-light gestalt bundle. More specifically, they only have DR 5/evil and magic.

Good spot, very true. OK, so a little more than scratched - but still fully functional!

Indeed - mostly pointing it out because the lesser DR and what gets through it will be helpful in fighting it.

And while I'm pointing things out, DMD - can I just say I appreciate the easy discussion of rules points as we go through this combat? There have been a lot of them, and lots of viewpoints, and I appreciate that you take it all in stride, rather than getting frustrated by it.

I don't think any of us want to be rules lawyers, but there are some things that have needed clarification, and I'm glad that's the spirit in which the points have been raised and heard.

That's fine, and I'm aware that I shamelessly ignored the RAW on darkness v light spells to make things a bit fairer; thanks to all of you for taking that in stride!

BTW, on escaping the whirlwind: way I read it, if you make your reflex save you get a move action to go where you like.

On a different note (though a refrain we've heard before), it would be great if we could get set up with maps on Google Docs. It is quite easy - certainly easier than the maps you're drawing, DMD, and posting for us - and makes it much clearer where everyone is as a round develops.

I'd be happy to help set them up. In fact, if you take your current base map for this fight and insert it in the Google Drawing linked here, I've already got all of our tokens in that document and we can start using it. In future, you can just take a snapshot (using Acrobat viewer) of the pdf map you're looking at and drop that into the google drawing.

And if you really don't want to do this, well, okay.

Oh, for the love of Pete... I forgot to say where I moved again. Erevan moved in a straight line from where he was, probably stepping over the paladin's remains and adding insult to injury in the process. I cannot see the map from my phone, but I do remember the cleric being behind the paladin.

No problems, I get people's intentions and will move them as needed.

Felrin, you've mentioned this before and I really ought to look into it, thank you for persisting. My only concern is that I like to be able to move the tokens myself, so that I can keep track of how far people have moved (everyone tends to forget that armour restricts them).

Oh, and Ottakar - on the subject of tokens, the Beast really ought to have its own; can you find something suitable?

Ouch! I'll post the reaction to that in an hour or so: I'm contemplating if I should somehow let the cat out of the bag about the whole Devil stuff, or just heavily hint to that considering that I got severely hit by something that harms evil outsiders.

OK, I'll hold off posting round 5 until you've posted your reactions.

I might have something appropriate. ;) (Will fit better once I get that mithral breastplate.)

Felrin, you've mentioned this before and I really ought to look into it, thank you for persisting. My only concern is that I like to be able to move the tokens myself, so that I can keep track of how far people have moved (everyone tends to forget that armour restricts them).

Well, if that's part of why you're doing maps the way you are, I'll understand. I've had DM's ask players to draw a line showing where they moved, which is still pretty easy, but it does diminish the "oh, that was easy" sort of feeling that using google drawings provides.

Another approach would be to use google drawings and only give the players view rights (rather than edit rights). Then you can move a token or two when you feel like it without having to repost a map - you just move a token, the map saves automatically, and you close it.

I'm still a maptools fan. Really, as long as there are coordinates, I am good with most maps.

Hmmm... I've just tried to copy the map onto the Drawings document, and it hasn't worked - it gives an error message.

Next time, I'll try drawing the map straight onto the link you provided, but remaking it from scratch seems kinda pointless, so I'll stick with the current system for this fight.

And on the subject of Google documents, I've added a 'wish list' tab to the Loot spreadsheet; can you please fill it in so I know what goodies to provide you with in future? I previously thought of having this as an add-in on your character sheet, but this way I can actually see everyone's wants in one easy place, and cross them off once you've got it.

Don't feel the need to fill up every slot - it just occurs to me that with Automatic Bonus Progression, those Belt and Headband and Shoulder slots can actually go to something interesting.

With the thing split into thingies, does the thing's penalty thing on Erevan persist or does it go away?

It persists - but you can dismiss it by hitting any one of them, rather than having to hit them all.

Oh, and their AC has changed - it's now 17 (T 13 FF 17)

But frankly if I were you I'd concentrate on the guy throwing out 4th level spells...

Oh, I intend to.

Just realised that the light rays specifically overcome DR of any type - editing the post now!

Sorry to propose something to make it easier and have it turn out the reverse. I find that sometimes with jpg files I have to use the Insert command, rather than copy and paste. If you've got a map in the pdf of the adventure, it's pretty easy to go to Edit --> Take a Snapshot, then select the portion of the image you want to copy. Then you should be able to past it into the google drawing directly.

One nice thing about this approach is it lets you use some of the very cool art that is in the AP - not that your maps aren't lovely, DMD, but judging from the maps of Branderscar and Balentyne, there's some pretty nice art in this book. And it saves you drawing anything, except perhaps some coordinate blocks on the edges.

I'll think about the wish list when it's not so late here...

I sure hope I hit that Mitran with my bite! Let's flank him, Erevan!

Ah, that might well work. I'll give it a try for the next fight, which might not be for a while; you really are into the endgame of this module now (hence the Boss nature of the fight)!

They do indeed overcome DR. They do not, however, ignore the 20% miss chance from my extract of blur. Please roll 6 percentile rolls before I tally up all that damage! :P

There's always something! :P

EDIT: looks like 14 damage in total, but do double-check.