Don't worry too much. I am sure you guys will pull through. hehe. Firebleeder is on the high end anyway.
Maybe swap Persistant Spell for Intensified Spell? I dunno, once you pick up Quicken, Empower, and Maximize you're pretty well covered metamagic-wise. Plus, I think this may be more of Mortimer's area of expertise. I'm used to playing 3/4th casters and below.
Oh, maybe I should take threatening illusion. That could be really useful,
Never been much of an expert on casters (I usually play martials). However you appear to be lacking spell penetration and greater spell penetration. If you don't have them at this level you are likely to be pooched.
Yea I dumped improved init for threatening illusion.
For Darnak or Groff I wil create a programmed image that will always flank with you and give you the command word
It's only about a DC 28 Will save right? It's also defeated by True Seeing. Do you think it's a reliable enough benefit to give up Improved Initiative?
Well my init was a paltry 5. I think it is worth the gamble.
I'm just so slow and fat.
OK, just read the monk build. If I might offer an opinion. At the very least you need weapon finesse so you can use the unarmed strikes off your dexterity bonus instead of your strength of 12. Seriously. Yes, you have a godly AC, and amazing saves. But if you can't hit anything (and even if you do, your damage just isn't there) why would anything bother to attack you in the first place?
Mainly due to the fact the bad guys don't realize I'm nearly unhittable. :)
Of course, it pretty much does equal a stalemate. Probably edge to the bad guy.
Now remember, this is all without modifiers. Not that modifiers are gonna make a nasty load of difference, but, a bit. If this was some kind of cage match, one vs. one type thing, I would've concentrated more on offense. But since it's a team thing, I built him more defensively.
I actually do have an Amulet, but it's only +1 and Holy.
Like I mentioned, I was using it Guided in my previous game which was perfect for him. And initially I was going to use it in this one until I found out otherwise. If I recall, I think it was DM fiat in my older game. I guess it had to be since it's not allowed. I know he let me use power attack for sure(Which was fiat but I don't have that feat. I didn't want it this time around).
Weapon Finesse never even crossed my mind. If I'd a thought about it, I would've taken it. That in and of itself would've helped me extremely.
I did have a Monk's Robe, but it changed none of my stats. I have no idea what a Monk's stats are at 25th level for that item. So I got rid of it.
Bodywrap of Mighty Strikes looks really cool. I should've got me one of those.
While those are some solid feats(and I do like them), I think looking back I should've at the very least taken Weapon Finesse. That would put me in the "competitive" category and far less of a rebuild at this point.
I gotta say, I'm learning a heck of a lot from you folks. I do appreciate the critique. Helps me learn what the heck I can do to make him better(ish)(Offensively anyway).
Dm am I able to enchant my staff? Not now, but later could I put enchantments on it? Pay for a +1 or whatever
Can you not fight defensively and full attack at the same time?
Yes, but you can't flurry (so you'll drop down to 3/4th BAB) and you take a -4 to attack for a +2 Dodge Bonus (less with Crane Style but still hard to justify sinking three feats into it I think). Also, if you want to keep your AC stupid-high you can take Combat Expertise.
Alternatively invest in a means by which enemies are forced to focus on you.
As we don't have a bard, you are unlikely to get enough buffing to make you credible in a fight with your current build. You are a great turtle, but will just be ignored since are no threat.
Now Groff certainly doesn't do the damage of an optimized two handed fighter, but he does reasonably credible damage and still is hard to hit. They have to be balanced to some degree at least. Also there are tricks like antagonize to leverage a high AC, but you can't really do that with your charisma.
I would agree on killing the crane style feats. They are pointless with your AC. Get weapon finesses. Get pummeling style and pummeling charge. I would probably also pick up weapon focus unarmed.
Honestly if it were my build I would have to do drastic revision. Just ask yourself, what can you actually accomplish against a CR 20+ critter. Looking at your stats right now the answer is 'not much'.
Mini:There should be time later.
Yes, but you can't flurry (so you'll drop down to 3/4th BAB) and you take a -4 to attack for a +2 Dodge Bonus (less with Crane Style but still hard to justify sinking three feats into it I think). Also, if you want to keep your AC stupid-high you can take Combat Expertise.
Something else I didn't know. Didn't realize you couldn't flurry and fight defensively. Which kinda confuses me. How come you can't flurry and fight defensively? If you can full attack and fight defensively, why is flurry not included in that seeing how it is a full attack? What's the difference? And I ask this sincerely because I flat out don't understand.
Looking at it, I can't say I disagree with the overkill on Crane Style. Probably would've been better off with the more offensive stuff.
Also, I looked up a couple of old threads on these boards. Amazingly enough, I asked this very question. Now I remember! I knew it was something I just couldn't recall.
Now, yes the Guided property is 3.5, it's found Pathfinder 10: A History of Ashes. Not sure what that is but whatever.
If you look at this LINK
And this one: LINK #2
In a nutshell, it's only allowed on melee weapons. Unarmed strikes are considered "manufactured" weapons(which I would guess means melee). And the amulet can grant melee weapon special abilities.
So technically there's nothing saying it can't go on there. Just because it hasn't been carried over just means Paizo has chose to do nothing with it, even though, it was in one of their books back when they were writing stuff(like their AP's) for 3.5.
So I would ask you, Ancient, if I could make that switch? It totally fits his character, otherwise, I wouldn't bother.
I had recalled FoB as a full-round action, not a full-attack action. Whoops. This is probably a good time for me to say I'm not a professional or anything. You should be able to do it. The only problem is that it'll take two turns to get it going. As I understand it: you have to start Fighting Defensively as a Standard Action which is one attack and then a Full-Round Action to maintain which is where you'll start getting your Full Attacks.
Will the DM not let you shuffle things given the situation?
Never been much of an expert on casters (I usually play martials). However you appear to be lacking spell penetration and greater spell penetration. If you don't have them at this level you are likely to be pooched.
+1. EVERYTHING at this level has SR. I got both the fears and still considered getting a robe of the archmage. Can't do s@!# if you can't get through their SR.
Now, yes the Guided property is 3.5, it's found Pathfinder 10: A History of Ashes. Not sure what that is but whatever.
If you look at this LINKAnd this one: LINK #2
In a nutshell, it's only allowed on melee weapons. Unarmed strikes are considered "manufactured" weapons(which I would guess means melee). And the amulet can grant melee weapon special abilities.
So technically there's nothing saying it can't go on there. Just because it hasn't been carried over just means Paizo has chose to do nothing with it, even though, it was in one of their books back when they were writing stuff(like their AP's) for 3.5.
There is a reason they didn't update Guided to 3.5. That is because it is fairly broken as abilities go, especially at only +1. It immediately makes clerics into melee terrors. Doesn't really hurt monks much either.
Up to the GM of course, but I wouldn't allow it in one of my campaigns since it allows you to completely cover over for otherwise bad build choices. Heck, you can barely get dex to damage on melee, and only with selected weapons and two feats. I don't believe there is any weapon enhancement which will do it.
Right now wisdom already gives you: will saves, AC bonus, stunning fist DC bonus, important skill bonuses (perception in particular). Making it swap out for strength would be stupidly powerful.
There is a reason they didn't update Guided to 3.5. That is because it is fairly broken as abilities go, especially at only +1. It immediately makes clerics into melee terrors. Doesn't really hurt monks much either.
Up to the GM of course, but I wouldn't allow it in one of my campaigns since it allows you to completely cover over for otherwise bad build choices. Heck, you can barely get dex to damage on melee, and only with selected weapons and two feats. I don't believe there is any weapon enhancement which will do it.
Right now wisdom already gives you: will saves, AC bonus, stunning fist DC bonus, important skill bonuses (perception in particular). Making it swap out for strength would be stupidly powerful.
I would disagree. Your lowest attack for Groff I would only beat by 5 on my highest attack(with the Guided amulet of course). I'm getting nowhere near 40 anything on my to hit rolls barring MASSIVE modifiers.
Also, you can't use power attack or two-handed adjustments. It's straight Wisdom to attack and damage. That's it. Your doing 22 damage per hit on a fantastic crit range while I'd be doing 12 damage on a 19/20.
If that's overpowered, then I could argue Groff is way overpowered, could I not? Just because you're built off Strength, why does that make it more "right"?
And while Crane Style might be a bit of overkill, if Darnak went up against one such as yourself, Crane Style would be real handy. With your attack bonuses, I'd have to fight defensively to survive. But of course I'd never hit you. In my mind I wanted to make him virtually unhittable; even vs the baddest of pc's. So I knew there would be a sacrifice on offense.
I had recalled FoB as a full-round action, not a full-attack action. Whoops. This is probably a good time for me to say I'm not a professional or anything. You should be able to do it. The only problem is that it'll take two turns to get it going. As I understand it: you have to start Fighting Defensively as a Standard Action which is one attack and then a Full-Round Action to maintain which is where you'll start getting your Full Attacks.
Will the DM not let you shuffle things given the situation?
Now THAT is the million dollar question.
Edit: I just noticed on my comparison to Groff involving to hit. I noticed that I was comparing the +1 scimitar. The +5 scimitar means my highest attack would just barely beat your lowest attack. Only by 1. So while your last attack would hit on an 11, my last three attacks would need a 19 or better(Still using the Firebleeder as an example).
Honestly, dude, you should've went Two-Weapon fighting. Two scimitars sitting at a 15-10 crit range with your pluses to hit... that's just nasty.
OK I got spell penetration in there. Turns out I do not get spell focus for my bloodline, it is something else that gives me +2 to my DC instead of +1 for illusion. So i just dropped Greater Spell Focus.
In any event I am now ready
I would disagree. Your lowest attack for Groff I would only beat by 5 on my highest attack(with the Guided amulet of course). I'm getting nowhere near 40 anything on my to hit rolls barring MASSIVE modifiers.
Also, you can't use power attack or two-handed adjustments. It's straight Wisdom to attack and damage. That's it. Your doing 22 damage per hit on a fantastic crit range while I'd be doing 12 damage on a 19/20.
If that's overpowered, then I could argue Groff is way overpowered, could I not? Just because you're built off Strength, why does that make it more "right"?
And while Crane Style might be a bit of overkill, if Darnak went up against one such as yourself, Crane Style would be real handy. With your attack bonuses, I'd have to fight defensively to survive. But of course I'd never hit you. In my mind I wanted to make him virtually unhittable; even vs the baddest of pc's. So I knew there would be a sacrifice on offense.
Guided is overpowered, I'm not saying you will be. I will say you will be getting a huge gift at about zero cost which makes up for the multitude of poor choices in your build.
OK, just deleted a lengthy rebuttal which was probably overly harsh (though honest).
Groff is an optimized fighter. He is not overpowered compared to any other optimized builds at this level. In fact an optimized other class such as barbarian would be appreciably more powerful.
When we built characters the rules were stated up front. Dredging up a 3.5 feat to make up for the shortcomings of your build is moving the goalposts late in the game. I don't like that idea.
Sorry if any of this comes off as offensive in anyway, it is not my intention.
I would disagree. Your lowest attack for Groff I would only beat by 5 on my highest attack(with the Guided amulet of course). I'm getting nowhere near 40 anything on my to hit rolls barring MASSIVE modifiers.
That's the core issue. As a combatant you need to be able to put up some kind of damage reliably, plain and simple. You can't right now and it's something you should be making great strides to rectify. Realize that the only difference in AC between you and Groff is 5 points. That's it. So for all of the building you did and all the damage capacity you sacrificed, you only came out 5 points higher in the AC department. He, however, manages to blow you way out of the water in the damage potential department.
Also, you can't use power attack or two-handed adjustments. It's straight Wisdom to attack and damage. That's it. Your doing 22 damage per hit on a fantastic crit range while I'd be doing 12 damage on a 19/20.
You can use Power Attack unless you are reading some sort ruling that I'm not, Str 13 is not hard to qualify for. And while you can't use Two-Handed to get a bonus, you CAN use Dragon Ferocity to get 1/2 your STR as a bonus on all damage rolls.
The way he is doing damage is also a completely different argument. That's getting into the territory of why monks are behind in general. Right now we're trying to focus on making sure your character can hold his own.
If that's overpowered, then I could argue Groff is way overpowered, could I not? Just because you're built off Strength, why does that make it more "right"?
Groff is not Overpowered, he is Optimized
Your character is Optimized, but also under-powered as a result.Guided is Overpowered, more so than Weapon Finesse.
As Groff started saying: when you are getting your WIS to attack and damage then you end up only needing two stats to play a monk: WIS and CON. DEX becomes gravy and you can just straight up dump STR, CHA and INT. Now, you may say "But Groff only needs STR and CON! What's the difference?".
Well, STR doesn't give Groff a bonus to will saves, skills, determine all his DCs and class abilities, and an AC bonus. It's better than Weapon Finesse and it doesn't even require a feat. Throw it on a WIS based casting class and it goes into the realm of being super-broken.
And while Crane Style might be a bit of overkill, if Darnak went up against one such as yourself, Crane Style would be real handy. With your attack bonuses, I'd have to fight defensively to survive.
But you have no means of ending the fight and on top of that you can only deflect 1 of his attacks a round after your investment into Crane Style. Sure you get to retaliate, except you can't hit with that attack so where's the benefit? But this is a PvE game, we aren't building around killing each other. We need to be able to beat things that the GM throws at us.
But of course I'd never hit you. In my mind I wanted to make him virtually unhittable; even vs the baddest of pc's. So I knew there would be a sacrifice on offense.
But all of your defense brings nothing to a table in a fight. You may not have thought about it yet, but simply ignoring you is a completely viable option for any monster. You have a hard time hitting and doing damage and you have no abilities that force it to come after you. That just means it's going to come after the rest of us by simple reason of threat recognition. All of your amazing defensive abilities become practical self-preservation tactics.
Again, I'm not saying you shouldn't play what you want to play. You want to play defensive cool man, rock on. All I'm trying to do is offer some advice on how I think that could work better.
Honestly, dude, you should've went Two-Weapon fighting. Two scimitars sitting at a 15-10 crit range with your pluses to hit... that's just nasty.
Two-Weapon fighting is bad. It'll actually lower his DPR since he'll hit less.
Honestly, dude, you should've went Two-Weapon fighting. Two scimitars sitting at a 15-10 crit range with your pluses to hit... that's just nasty.
Missed this before.
Were I do to that, I would have to give up a lot of feats to make two weapon fighting viable, as well as completely re-arrange my stats because the higher two weapon fighting feats require high stats (though I suppose with my belt, I probably make it, I just don't like making a build which actually doesn't work except at 20th level).
I would need to ditch feats to get:
Two weapon fighting
Improved two weapon fighting
Greater two weapon fighting
Double Slice
I had to pass up on feats I wanted as is. Sure, I would trade out the 2 shield ones, but still that would be 2 feats to axe. In the process, I would have to toss overboard 9 points of AC. At that point, I might as well give up on every bit of my AC build in total. AC is an all or nothing affair (sort of, but nonetheless dropping 9 points really makes it pretty meaningless).
Oh, and it would be lunacy to wield 2 scimitars since the to hit penalty of 2 medium weapons is harsh. Better to do 2 kurkris. Same threat range, and you only give up 1 damage on the average damage roll.
Of course by this point I would be a nice crit machine, but I would have even fewer feats to use on critical feats.
A far better option if I was trying for glass cannon status would be to pick up the 2 handed fighter archetype and swing a nodachi at things (falchion is slightly worse, but very close). Then I would be doing the highest damage fighter build.
scans everything about melee attacks
So bout those spells haha.
Wizard OP plz nerf ;_;
Oh, and I forgot to mention one other odd ability Groff has, which is spell sunder.
He has shatterspell which gives him the spell sunder ability.
The relevant text:
Once per rage, the barbarian can attempt to sunder an ongoing spell effect by succeeding at a combat maneuver check. For any effect other than one on a creature, the barbarian must make her combat maneuver check against a CMD of 15 plus the effect’s caster level. To sunder an effect on a creature, the barbarian must succeed at a normal sunder combat maneuver against the creature’s CMD + 5, ignoring any miss chance caused by a spell or spell-like ability. If successful, the barbarian suppresses the effect for 1 round, or 2 rounds if she exceeded the CMD by 5 to 9. If she exceeds the CMD by 10 or more, the effect is dispelled.
Since I don't rage, I have the ability to just sunder spells 3 times per day total.
For my sunder number, my base sunder (if I picked up a club to use) is +33. If I sunder with a magic weapon, the enhancement bonus adds to the CMB. If I'm using a weapon in which I have weapon focus or greater weapon focus, those add to the CMB. I also include bonuses from weapon training into my CMB when sundering.
Hence, when I sunder with my +5 scimitar, my CMB is + 33 + 5 + 2 +6 = 46.
So what does that mean? It means I can dispel any ongoing spell effect automatically (assuming no 1 on the d20) if the caster level is less than 28 three times per day.
Again, I would have this ability on any barbarian I would have built at this level, and in that case I could do it probably 30 times a day. Yes, fighters suck.
God I love spell sunder. Great fluff and it doesn't suck mechanically. Works on Spell-Like abilities too.
Sorry guys I haven't really been following this. If you have questions specifically for me just bold my name. It seems there is some shifting going on on the character sheets. I know we moved a little fast on the boards putting these together and it will take a while to learn the characters abilities. However I would ask that you finish modifications by Friday. That is when I will move us forward to the first encounter few encounters. This good with everyone?
That works. I'll be dead right away anyhow I figure
My build is fine as is.
I'm 100% ready to go.
I too am comfortable were I am.
That works. I'll be dead right away anyhow I figure
Chin-up buddy, I got your back.
Yeah, but he is gambling on invisibility to protect him in a world of True Seeing.
You should probably look into Mind Blank.
Oh that's a level 8 spell, I'll just take it.
Dumping maze for it. Since I can cast it once per day anyhow w my kimono
Cue victory music. Drinks are on me.
Somehow I'm skeptical that this will actually work out.
|
Wiz-Yeah, I can alter the fabric of reality to suit my whims, create whole planes of existence, know a demon's name by the number of pimples on his ass, and also brew a mean cup of tea. You?
Gunfighter-I shoot bullets to hit touch attack from 400 feet away.
Wiz-Broken!
The creators of 3rd Ed were not called Fighters of the Coast. :P
There. I'll dispel it for good measure. If that doesn't work I'll cast moment of prescience and try again.
If you want, I'm pretty sure I can dispel it easier than you can.
If that doesn't get rid of it, by all means.
The DM just put in our Init blocks.
Comforting.
Coincidence I'm sure.
I added +2 to Kyamba for this because of the boiling pill. Keeping track of buffs is going to be difficult. I don't want to retcon but it might be inevitable for a while. What is the duration on the pill?
Fizzy also took his pill
Also Mindblank is no active on Fizz, which make shim MUCH harder to see
You can go before Darnak if you want but it won't make much difference I expect.
2 hours, it's still in effect. My stat block has all the current buffs I am under the influence of already included (including the pill). Don't worry about tracking buffs for me, I can take care of it. Just ask and I'll break down the math on anything.
can we get the map linked into the campaign info?
I added a text box for details, for example Fizzy is in the air so I added that detail.
Here is the link
https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/13UvAto0o0tNL0JTB6sFSIGdeJ_upwI3zXD9ShJy p414/edit
Next round I can put up a wall of ice or stone or whatever. And make them come from one side.