Tentative character sheet!
also o yah it's me.
I'm fiddling a bit with things like the whole 'getting static damage on my evocation spells' via an arcanist dip or something but as soon as I start thinking about it I go 'no dammit Jim that's the exact sort of high-level caster bullshit I was telling Eben I don't really want to have to think about, and it's why I did this gestalt the way I did it anyway.'
Basically, as a single-attribute cleric/sorc, I'm as powerful as any high-wis cleric would be, and I therefore don't need to worry about optimizing my sorc spells because they're just kind of there as pure icing on the cake blaster fun stuff.
Also, despite the monk levels, this character is not intended to be in melee and will be jaunting out of it if he happens to get there, etc.
So, as a rundown of some of the wonky bits of this build:
Ecclesitheurge cleric means I give up wearing armor for what is in essence three domains, with the third changeable each day. Basically, I get my primary domain (Divine), and then my secondary domain (I took the Conversion Inquisition, unless you wanna tell me it's BS and I can't have it-- it's not that it's powerful, it's just that it's essentially a domain I'm getting as a freebie benefit while meanwhile taking my spells for that domain entirely from...) ... my third domain, where I don't get the domain daily powers but I do get to pick spells from it, and that is currently Destruction (hey Mal, want Rage for you and your tiger? :P ), but could be switched out per day.
So on the cleric half, I have absurd levels of "can adjust spells per day" since I have the entire cleric spell list to pick from, and then the third domain doodad in order to open up a few more spell choices if I need to (though I am restricted to just domains of Nethys). With a few exceptions, my cleric spell selections will be leaning towards buff, support, and heal spells.
Meanwhile, on my sorc half, I am of course stuck with whatever the spells I normally have are, by and large, and they're mostly direct damage evocation spells. Partly because I've never really played a blaster caster in PF (due to them being kinda subpar), and this provides a perfect excuse to do so while not sacrificing the usefulness that being a full caster cleric grants me, and partly as a thematic way to reflect the dual nature of Nethys as a god: one half creates, builds, and nurtures, and the other f#%@in' lightning-bolts you.
/any questions go
This is my first rule of spell-slinger high-level play... while your offensive spells against baddies may not be reliable (good saves, DR, resistances, immunities, yada yada yada) - the same is NOT true for your offensive buffs and team spells. :) Most baddies can't/won't stop you from buffing yourself, their defenses are designed to stop you from de-buffing them... which is why I love 'Haste' in preference to 'Slow' as baddy level increases. If you can't slow down the baddy's strikes, speed up yours to surpass his.
I did make one judgment call on Priyya that could be contested rules-wise. According to Stunning Fist/Perfect strike, I get one/day "for each monk level and one/day for every two levels in any other class". Technically, I have 10 levels in WP which would count as +5 Perfect Strikes... but since this is gestalt, that seemed a little slimy, so I left her at the 10 Perfect Strikes for her Monk level and nothing else.
Any other errors on her character sheet are due to my faulty rules memory or poor maths skills.
Color me super-curious to see what Dien brings to the party! 10/10 gestalt (or whatever her blend) is just so great as a starting point, my brain overloads.
Behold above, Priyya. ;)
I just saw! My head is still spinning from that combo platter! :)
FWIW, I haven't looked closely at your Monk archetype but I suspect that you should have 6 Stunning Fists per day not the 2 listed in your Special description... I think that is a HeroLab uh... 'feature'.
Personally, I'm a fan of sorcerer blasters and don't believe they are below par. So I say 'rock on' and get down with your napalm-wielding hellbeast!
Hey! Dien! Good to ...
*looks at Zeon*
... eeeeexccceeeelllleeeennnnttt!!!!
i'm gonna have to look over this more close, butI l like the concept.
Also, unrelated, anyone know how to get natural attacks to bypass DR/cold iron? (other than a +3 enhancement ... which is too expensive right now)
Also, Greater Magic Fang makes natural attacks count as Magic for attacking incorporeal creatures, right?
The easiest way is for you to memorize this spell or get a potion with it:
Versatile Weapon.
and yeah, Greater Magic Fang beats Magic DR...
Through the spell Heart of the Metal? Doesn't last as long on natural attacks, but I believe can still be cast on them. Buy me a scroll. ;)
SR: you're probably right on the Stunning Fist. Given the odds that I'll ever actually be punching something physically are pretty low, lol, I paid little attention to the monk offensive stuff; mostly the monk levels matter to me for defensive bennies.
Yeah, Hero Lab is like 'woah what what are you even doing' with gestalt stuff.
I'm excite. :D
eta: ninja'd by versatile weapon - oh yeah okay i guess that works too sheesh
Hmmm ... those may be Mal's best options. Which I hate because I'd ideally have an option that Mal could activate himself while in Wildshape. :/
The fact that Rangers get that but Druids don't is just dumb. Lead Blades and Gravity Bow, I get. Versatile Weapon? WHAAA?!
oh well, I'll keep looking. Also, I'll give Zeon a closer look-over tonight. I think the build is fun, though ... and hella-flexible!
You know Eben, the more I think about it, the more I'm okay with not being part of the cure-status sign thing right now. Like, yes, it would certainly make it easier for me to cure people, but I don't mind having to run in there at the moment, as I'll be pretty mobile overall, and it's sort of a fun limitation/challenge.
And means we don't necessarily need to mesh the backstory in an awkward way.
Not that I'm opposed to it, either, so if you have a bright idea to tie Zeon to the snake fight, I'm down for it, just that I'm not like "oh yeah I really need that to happen" either.
eta: yes, flexibility is the name of Zeon's game!
Ya know I'm actually kind of surprised that Versatile Weapon is a Ranger but not a Druid spell. They shape-shift and have companions... seems like a 'very good thing to have' for them for boosting any natural attack. Ninja'd by Eben!
Yeah, HL has some issues with mixing gestalt stuff together. Be sure to double-check that your FOB level is right. For me, it kept giving me the right bonus above BAB but gave me the FOB rate of a 12th level Monk. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be throwing 5 attacks (pre-Ki) instead of 4 but...
Yeah, it had some issues with that too but the attack prog listed on my sheet is correct, I think.
I'd sort of dig the idea of Mal and Priyya stumbling across a Zeon who's just sitting cross-legged meditating atop a dune somewhere and has been 'here' for an unknown period of time after getting shunted here during his planar experiments, but obviously whatever works for a good intro!
(Zeon: Hmm, okay, what day is it... really? well what year is it?)
Thoughts on the cure-status thing... for consideration and violent discarding if ya'll hate it.
1. I wouldn't put Zeon in the snake-god-avatar fight. I think I'd have him seemingly killed on his own world in some majorly apochryphal (sp? ah, who cares) way. Then he slams down in Space Between much as Mal/Priyya did. Maybe we see him come down like a meteor and go to investigate it. This allows Dien to come up with a backstory that doesn't have to be tied to ours or be from the same world... which makes all of us go "what the hell is going on?"
Ben, if you want to have this fight we're currently in end quick... you could have Zeon meteor in right on the remaining bad guys, wipe them out in one swoop and send us spinning (or some equivalent thereof). That neatly wraps stuff up and gets the party together.
2. Not that Zeon will have a lot of great options in this hell-scape (although I noticed Dien took Plane Shift - you sly boots :) ) but if you want to reinforce that we should all stick together - giving him (Zeon) the Cure-Status thing would definitely indicate we are all in the same boat and maybe there is purpose to our meeting.
Just my thoughts.
LOL, well, a big part of his backstory is trying to find the Refuge of Nex, and he's into planar magic in general, sooooo.... I didn't take it as a "shift out of Space Between" per se, as I am fine assuming that it might not work to get out of this special plane. ;) (Which would just intrigue Zeon further.)
LOL. Yeah, my assumption is it can't be that easy. And what fun would that be?
Ben has been cryptic about where he was going with this 'demi-plane'. My rough thinking (putting on my DM hat) was that the playground of deities and demons line is a solid clue to how this place works. It suggests that there are 'gatekeeper(s)' who run the place and leaving it requires either permission to get out or out-foxing someone who you better dance with cautiously. I was thinking of it kind of like the Ravenloft demi-plane or the Hotel California:
"You can check out any time you like... but you can never leave."
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welcome to the space between dimensions
such an empty place (such an empty place)
such a crazy space
plenty of room in the space between dimensions
any time or sphere
you can find it here...
Priyya conjures a faerie fire in her palm and begins to wave it.
Hey D, you get max HP at all levels - you will need it. :)
Haha, okay. :) Will adjust. Bumps me up to a slightly less squishy 92.
Eben's baddies knocked me from 100HP to 0 in one round... so that less squishy 92 is a good, good thing!
True story. I'm still scratching my head that the math worked out that way. :/
RAWR
Your big-cat-shaping, natural-attacking, grapple-festing, hunk of meat shield is here. (and updated, I believe)
I read through your story, Dien. I like it. I need to stew on it as I consider how the game will progress from here.
Feel free to tweak character stuff as we begin to try to get this thing back off the ground.
Regarding Plane Shift - yah ... this game would be a lot less fun if that and similar spells worked as usual. Not that our characters are aware of that. :)
Regarding Zeon's appearance: I agree it makes more sense to bring him in outside of all that's already transpired. And as I consider his introduction, I"m considering if something should be subbed in place of Mal/Priyya's mark.
Hmm... odd idea struck me. Let's say there are 'gatekeepers' here. It could be that an individual gatekeeper (for reasons unknown) drags people they 'like' here. Every person brought in gets the 'stamp' of the gatekeeper that grabbed them. So Mal and Priyya bear the mark their keeper. Depending on how you drag in Zeon, he could have the mark of a different keeper.
Your thoughts are eerily like my own. :D
that's pretty much the way I'm taking things. I'm working out who or what pulled him through, and I'm hoping that will inspire a mechanical benefit to that mark.
Zeon gets a mark that looks like a frowny emoji and conveys the power of sarcasm.
I have a PFS fighter who, while playing Eyes of the Ten, went in the space of one round from full HP (somewhere around 125 I think) to -72. (Partially due to a fellow PC being a goddamn moron, and partially due to two consecutive reflex saves on my part where I rolled a 1 and a 2, but... yeah.)
Even more impressive: the party managed to bring me back from that by casting three Breaths of Life in the space of one round, haha.
~~~
Yeah, I'll probably continue to tweak spells here and there. Ugh, I wish I had about double my second level sorc spells known, haha. In my non-mystic theurge build (just straight cleric/sorc), I did, but gosh, the defensive parts of my monk levels are so damn good.
*struggles to decide between things like darkvision and false life*
~~~
I'll have you know Zeon is a very sincere and earnest soul who's also just a little bit batshit crazy.
How are you using your favored class bonus? If you're not already, you can use it to pick up new sorc spells known.
b~*$+%% crazy? Good, you'll fit right in! :)
Priyya has a love/hate relationship with Sarenrae and a strong streak of Plumekith-bred chaos that wars with her monk-ish lawfulness. So, she's... uh... 'complicated'.
How are you using your favored class bonus? If you're not already, you can use it to pick up new sorc spells known.
Yeah, but the problem is that I'm only a fourth level sorcerer, because Mystic Theurge. The human favored class bonus for sorc gives you extra spells... as long as they're one level below what you can cast as a sorc.... i.e, I only get that FCB four times, and I'm never high enough level as a sorc to use it for anything other than first level spells.
***
Excellent re: Priyya. :) I'm sure they will all get along swimmingly~
I've made a few tweaks, mostly in the realm of spells known, and I'll post a revised sheet later today, but two idle questions just so that I'm sure we're on the same page in how we're interpreting a couple of my specials:
Ecclesitheurge gets a 'bonded holy symbol' that's kind of like a wizard's bonded object. A wizard's object lets you cast one spell per day for free as long as it's in your spellbook... but a cleric doesn't have a spellbook, so I'm interpreting that as "you get to cast any one cleric spell period" for free, which is admittedly a strong boost but I'm not sure how else to interpret it. Relevant text:
At 3rd level, an ecclesitheurge forms a powerful bond with a holy symbol of his deity, which functions identically to a wizard's bonded object except it can be used to cast cleric and domain spells (instead of wizard spells)...
No restrictions in there about it needing to be one of his prepared spells for the day or anything. Nice way to free up, say, a 5th level slot for BOL without needing to keep BOL prepped. It's sort of the capstone of ecclesitheurge being such a super-versatile archetype, but let me know if you're reading it differently.
**
Also: my primary domain of Divine gives me the following ability:
Divine Vessel (Su): Whenever you are the target of a divine spell, you can, as a swift action, grant each ally within 15 feet of you a divine boon. This boon grants a +2 bonus on the next attack roll, skill check, or ability check made before the end of their next turn.
You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.
Would you be reading this as, say, divine spells that ONLY target me (like using shield of faith on myself, for instance), or would that be open to any divine spell that includes myself as a target (like, say, bless)? My initial reading was the latter, but just making sure that, again, same page.
It's Ben's show but I'll toss in my 2 cents. I agree with your read on bonded holy symbol - any standard cleric spell (that doesn't violate your alignment) or your domain spells.
On Divine Vessel, I'd personally read it as spells that specifically target you, you and others (such as Communal Pro for Evil where it is applied to the creatures touched), but not AoE spells. Otherwise, I don't see the point of mentioning 'you as the target' in the description. But that is just me.
Hmmm, I can see that reasoning for Divine Vessel, but I'll see what Ben says :D
Okay, revised sheet posted, some minor spell tweaking and purchases, but still basically the same character. And I think I get SEVEN stunning fists that I'll never uses, so neener.
It is certainly Ben's call and I'm good either way - since we both have clerical spells that would really take that bennie for a ride! :D
Seven stunning fists... color me jealous of your awesomeness! And I'm willing to bet they will get some use at unexpected moments. ;)
Had a busy weekend. I'm inclined to agree with Justin's perspective. Those in the area are affected, not specifically targeted.
And those Stunning Fists may be more useful than you know. You get Weapon Finesse for free. :)
Oh, that is handy re: Weapon Finesse. Makes me slliiightly likelier to hit something. :P
Yah, still not amazing, but possibly a bit more useful for ole Zeon.
Alright, I have pieces coming together for us to be able to proceed. Not that it’ll be all that quickly, as I’m fitting said pieces together, but at least I have a good idea of how I want to proceed. Bear with me. I like what I have so far.
Dien, i have some questions to get you incorporated well. Watch your PM inbox. :)
welcome to the space between dimensions
such an empty place (such an empty place)
such a crazy space
plenty of room in the space between dimensions
any time or sphere
you can find it here...
I woke up on these white sands;
no clouds in the skies.I didn’t know what to think of this place
like a .. crazy death paradise.
So we decided to move out, moving north at a trot
But we don’t really know where to go
We just know that it’s hot!
Hee. *watches inbox*
*watches Zeon watching inbox*
*blink*
Lol. Sorry. We got a big project come in. It's kind of eaten up all my free time. Progress continues ... slowly.
In the meantime, I could use some help on the affect of Zeon's mark. Thoughts?
I hear ya.
Uhmnn, let's see: if it's being tied to some specific gatekeeper who's taken an interest in Zeon, perhaps it's magic-themed, like... a metamagic feat? Can cast spells as if modified by Reach Spell 3/day, or something? /spitballing
Hmm... I'd probably work the problem from another direction. Do you have some ideas about who Zeon's Gatekeeper is? If he/she is a Deva, a Demigod of Trickery, a Demon, Devil, A Slaad Lord, or whatnot, it might suggest what sort of bennie Zeon might receive. If your thinking hasn't gone that far... then maybe a more generally useful bennie (such as Dien's suggestion) might be a good choice.
I'm thinking it has to do with the "test" Zeon had to pass in order to make the trip (more so than the person who created the test ... though I guess the two are intrinsically connected either way). For Mal/Priyya—since we didn't survive the trial despite our success in killing the B.A.S. (big ass snake)—it ended up being a mark that bound us together to survive the trials ahead.
Here's what I've been working up for Zeon. I was going to hash this out through PM, but I'm not sure why that would b necessary. It gives Justin an insight into what's going on, which will give him the opportunity to get creative with brainstorming how the mark plays into that.
So I was going to suggest that Zeon found his way into some southern Garundi mountains, following an obscure lead in his never-ending search for the Refuge of Nex. When he got to the high-mountain village—which was where the lead suggested, if he was interpreting his source correctly—he initially thought it was a dead end (one of many dead leads he’s followed over the years). But, with nothing better to do since the trail seemed to have dried up, he hung out ... and discovered a mad man who lived in the village. All the locals agreed the old man was crazy, but some whispered about old rumors that his craziness was tied to oracular powers. Zeon, being Zeon, saw the potential through the madness, interviews the old man, gets a renewed lead up higher into the mountains … where he runs into his test (though obviously he doesn’t know that’s what it is; he thinks he’s looking for something that will lead him to the Refuge).
So far, his path is about seeking and deciphering truth from illusion. But I’m hesitant to go down the divination route, because in general I’d rather RP and experience be the way our characters work their way through Space Beyond … as opposed to using “get answers quick” magic solutions. And I don’t want to do a flat bonus to knowledge skills or something because … that’s hella-lame.
The test I’m thinking of is fairly similar to the B.A.S. in nature … basically an encounter he has to overcome. I’m still working through the details (and I kind of want Dien to get to read along and make choices as her “entry” into the game, just like we did with Mal and Priyya in that big fight against B.A.S.), but it will require much blowing stuff up and possibly a bit of searching on a kind of timed basis. Imagine a mountain-top frozen ruins, waves of summoned minions, and the need to find the McGuffin before Zeon is snuffed out) :D
No details are final, but it’s the encounter i’m currently working up.
So … does any of that give anyone any ideas for Zeon’s mark? I”m intentionally leaving the “who gave it to him” blank. Both because it’s a better mystery that way and because, frankly, I’m happy to leave that up in the air for us to creatively discover as DM’s as we go. :P
Hmm... I can work with that. We'll need to leave the mark as something not particularly emblematic of 'X' since you want to keep Zeon's Gatekeeper undefined at the moment. Equally, the bennies can't be tied to a really specific theme to keep the Gatekeeper options open for explanation.
If we want to keep the mark's abilities on-par with Mal/Priyya then we are talking about something roughly equal to 2 2nd level spells with Permanency attached and that will fill a need Zeon is likely to have. I'll give it some thought.
Dien, what are your hopes and dreams for Zeon? I get he wants to find the Refuge of Nex... but then what? What does he want to have happen once he finds the Refuge?
For consideration:
Zeon's Mark: something 'sort of' circular.
Is it supposed to be a circle? Is it an eye? Some weird celestial geometric figure?
Spells that it conveys:
Object Reading - usable at will, subject to concentration.
Analyze Aura - usable at will (on creatures or objects), subject to concentration.
For an answer seeker and Theurge-like guy like Zeon, these spells seem appropriate and would certainly be handy for encounters, McGuffins, clue-finding, etc. Also, the fact that these spells can both be found in the 'psychic casters' lists could be a fun hint towards the Gatekeeper.
Long-term, Zeon's more about coming to terms/peace with magic as a force than he is about the Refuge per se. The Refuge is more like a symbol of what he thinks he needs to achieve, kinda? Like he figures he won't fully be whatever Nethys wants him to be until he can access it. He also probably assumes that Nex managed to be one with magic, so he'd like to talk to Nex and fanboy all over him.
(Not that I'm necessarily expecting this campaign to include Nex! But SR asked. ;) )
Ultimately-ultimately, if I were writing a novel or something, Zeon would end up as, like, one of Nethys's heralds. That'd be fun. :P
Also he wants to fix his parents, though part of the reason he's not gone back and done that yet is that he's pretty sure that once he did it, he'd need to say goodbye to them and go off sailing into the wild blue yonder to keep up his study of magic. There is no 'going back' to the good old days when he was just their bright prodigy child that they boasted to the neighbors about. So part of why he's been stalling is, as mentioned in the backstory, the fear that Nethys might be pissed; but the other part is that, until the day he actually goes back and raises them, he gets to exist in a limbo state where he hasn't totally severed ties with his human, normal life. As it is he's existing on the verge of becoming a disconnected planar philosopher/conduit for a god/something.
/four-a.m. rambling
Also, I dig those spells as potential mark things for Zeon, those could be cool. I have no objections to the mark winding up looking like what's in his icon just for simplicity's sake, either.
Re: Ben's ideas for the encounter that takes Zeon on to glory -- also really cool! Very cinematic, I wholly approve. Much blasting of minions. Sorry I have no more specific feedback than that, but I do like it!
All good, good tidbits, thanks!
*ahem* Encounters with Nex and/or Nethys would not be out of the realm of possibility.
>:) <-- evil co-DM grin