"As I sailed into Shadow, a white bird of my desire came and sat upon my right shoulder, and I wrote a note and tied it to its leg and set it on its way. The note said "I am coming," and it was signed by me."
-Roger Zelazny, Nine Princes in Amber
At the center of all things, where all roads eventually lead, lies the City. Golden Amber, the heart of reality and the home of the line of Oberon. Throughout all the universe, everything that has ever truly existed lies only within Amber's walls; all else is simply a reflection of her incredible beauty, a shadow of her immortal glory and an echo of her awesome power. Yet even Amber is not perfect, and we see this imperfection in the shadows of reality all around us, growing every day and hinting at corruption from the very source. And if Amber, glorious Amber, may be flawed...what then of those who rule over her?
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“There is Shadow and there is Substance, and this is the root of all things.”
Hello all. This is a game about reality, perception, and what makes a ruler fit to rule. This is a game about the Princes and Princesses of Amber.
For anyone familiar with Roger Zelazny's amazing series of books, you already know the basics - bear with me for a moment while I explain a few of the concepts to everybody else (and please, try to avoid spoilers, as they may come up in game). We won't be recreating Zelazny's story here, but many of the same themes and some of the dramatis personae may recur, and I'd prefer to save some surprises for later on.
About Amber: The city of Amber is the true reality, the ultimate bastion of Order and Substance from which all other realities are derived. Anywhere else is known, collectively, as Shadow. The further out in Shadow you go, the more unlike Amber a place can be, and Shadow is infinite. This means that, in Shadow, there can be found any possibility, anything from Camelot to Tatooine to our own Earth. The royal line, by the same token, are the truest versions of humanity there can be, and so the most powerful beings anyone knows of, except for each other.
Part of the royal line's power derives from their ability to walk the Grand Pattern. The Pattern lies beneath the Palace of Amber, and is the ultimate center of reality. The royal family and some few others are strong enough to walk along the Pattern without being destroyed. Once they've done so, they gain the power to walk through Shadow at their will, and because Shadow is infinite, this means they can go to any place they can possibly imagine, and have anything they have ever desired. Anything they can think of exists, either because they created it or discovered it.
And this is in itself a point of contention for many Amberites: does Shadow truly exist, or is it simply an extension of their will? If all you need do is desire something exist and go to it, did you find it, or did you bring it into being? Do the countless souls in the infinite worlds of Shadow exist independently of Amber, or is all of creation just your plaything, made real by your presence? These are the questions the philosophers among the godlings of Amber ponder.
About the Players: In this game, you will be playing as one of the members of the royal family. There are all sorts of possibilities for this, as not all Amberites have always known of their heritage. The Amberites before you have walked in Shadow, and they have not always been particularly choosy about their exploits. It's rare that a true Amberite is born in Shadow, but sometimes the royal power takes root. This means that in addition to the possibility of being born to Amberite power and privilege within the Royal Court, you can play a character from anywhere, anytime, who has done anything, as long as you're human. As far as I'm concerned, you could have been a Marine who fought on the beach on D-Day, a member of the Merchant's Guild in Waterdeep on Faerun, or one of the Browncoat Resistance in Border Space.
Now, what could possibly challenge beings who have no equal? Who could ever trouble a family that has ruled the Golden City since before time began? Why, who else but one another?
Above anything else, this is a political game. Outmaneuvering your siblings in pursuit of your own agenda is the core of Amber and of Amberites, so if you're looking for a nice little cooperative venture, this is not the game for you. That's not to say there won't be a common enemy for all of you to face, but ultimately, your biggest obstacles to real power will be each other. Not everyone will feel the need to climb to the top, and sooner or later there will inevitably be cliques or alliances among you, but ultimately only one head can wear the crown.
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“No word matters. But man forgets reality and remembers words.”
This game is going to be a bit unusual, in that we'll be using the Amber Diceless Roleplaying system. This means that an awful lot of the usual number-crunching goes right out the window. I'll go into further detail once players are selected, but here are a few things you'll need to know about the system when submitting proposals.
- The Auction: The first part of character creation in Amber is the Auction. Players are given a set number of points they are allowed to bid with, and then they bid against one another to determine their rankings in the four Attributes: Strength, Psyche, Endurance, and Warfare. The reason attributes are rated in rankings rather than simple numbers is because the only metric that matters for Amberites is how you're superior in relation to each other - you're already better than everyone else. This means that the character who is first in Strength isn't just the strongest PC, he is very likely the strongest person in the universe, capable of superhero-like feats of power. There are opportunities, later on, for some ranks to shift, but mostly we know where each player's ranking lies - these characters have had ages to learn each other's relative strengths, after all.
Again, I'll explain further details once players are selected, but here's the point that's important for character submissions: you won't necessarily know your character's real strengths before we begin. What this means is that you're going to need to think more about their personality and desires then about their powers, because that will end up being shaped later on. - The Struggle: As I said above, this game is going to be competitive. Your characters are going to be at odds a lot of the time, with conflicting agendas and power struggles. I expect there to be a lot of conflict, plotting, subterfuge, and general PvP, if not outright combat. What I need, though, is for the players to be able to keep the separation between player and character distinct. I don't want to see people getting mad at players for things that happen in game - if your character's brother chops your character's hand off, you still have to be able to play nice.
- Diceless: I know, I know - if you're competing against each other, and the only way attributes are determined in ranking order, how do we resolve anything without dice? That's a great question! The answer, of course, is somewhat complicated, but here's my best attempt at condensing it.
If you are up against one of your siblings in a contest where their attribute is better than yours, they win. Period. If, for instance, you are third in Warfare and you find yourself in a swordfight with the character in first, you're going to lose. So rather than attempt to win futilely, you need to find a way to change the situation so one of your strengths comes into play. In the previous example, let's say you're first in Endurance, and your opponent is fifth. You, then, decide to play defensively - you dodge and weave, back away and generally deny him the opportunity to use his superior swordplay until your superior Endurance begins to give you the edge against your tiring opponent. Or perhaps you know something about the terrain your opponent does not; maybe your greater Psyche lets you trick the other into falling down a pit you cover with a clever illusion. These are simplified examples, but they're the crux of it - if you're going to lose, then change something so you don't.
This is, of course, very different from most systems we here on these boards play in. It requires more thought and less math, and sometimes there just isn't anything you can do to change the outcome. For me, I think this is just as much a strength as a weakness, but your mileage may vary. - Number of Players: Somewhere between five and eight, very likely settling on six or seven. I could run with fewer or more, but in a game so focused on player interaction, I feel like that range is the most appropriate to keep things interesting without getting too complicated.
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“There are none of you, good doctors, could cope with my family anyway.”
So, if we don't know your character's exact abilities until we start, what do I need to hear in order to pick players?
I'm looking to hear a little about your character's backstory. You don't have to go into immense detail, but there are a few specific things I need to know.
- Where are you from? Were you born in Amber, or are you from out in Shadow? If you are from Shadow, how long have you known about your true heritage (yes, you do have to be an acknowledged and empowered Amberite by now)? Do you live in Amber now, or have you made a home for yourself somewhere in Shadow?
- How old are you? No one is going to be young by human standards (in order to have the level of experience that is necessary to stand up to your siblings, you'll need to have some years under your belt), but you can be anywhere from 60 or so to thousands or even tens of thousands years old.
- What are your interests? Amberites have the opportunity and the time to indulge in every wild fantasy that ever occurs to them - so what have you done, and what still doesn't bore you? You can, if you like, even get into particular fields of study or feats of prowess - just bear in mind that you can't say you're the best fencer ever to live or whatever, as the Auction will largely decide such things for you. Your bids in the Auction later on can certainly determine your level of interest, but you don't know for sure just yet.
Those are the questions I really want answered, but feel free to go into as much or as little detail as you like on those points, and elaborate on more if the need strikes you. Since so much of the character creation process is going to be fluid, at this point I'm looking to see what kind of gamer you are more than getting to know your character. I'm looking for innovative thinkers and good writers, and this is your opportunity to show it off.
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“All roads lead to Amber," he said, as though it were an axiom.”
Lastly, a couple notes on time management. I'm not putting a time limit on recruitment just yet. I'm pretty much willing to let it run until I do or don't have enough players. I will make sure to give a few days warning before I make my final choices. As for pace once the game starts, I intend to be fairly casual about it; my life runs pretty busy most of the time, and I'm not going to ask more of you than I would myself. If you can make a post a day, great.
Otherwise, I'll just make sure things keep moving along several times a week, making assumptions about people's actions as necessary if they're slowing us down. If I haven't heard anything from someone in a couple of weeks, then I'll start looking around for replacements, although a good enough excuse ("My house burned down!") would probably get me to let you back in - that is, if your siblings haven't killed you off in the meantime.
Finally, between an unorthodox system and a setting that is both very odd and probably unfamiliar, I'm sure many of you have questions. Feel free to ask away, I'll see what I can do.
Best of luck!
"Goodbye, and hello, as always."
Agh... paralyzed... with... SO MANY OPTIONS!
;P
I'm currently thinking up a Yamato Nadeshiko-type: very much a polite, political player, but capable of laying down the hurt when neccessary. (Emphasis on Psyche and Warfare)
Agh... paralyzed... with... SO MANY OPTIONS!
I know, right? It's intimidating.
For other folks, try not to get too bogged down in the literally infinite available options if you don't have a particular concept in mind. It's perfectly acceptable to be an Amber native, or from our Earth - Earth is a particularly popular destination in Shadow for many Amerbites, for various reasons.
A note on character creation I seem to have forgotten to mention:
After the Auction, any points a player has left over can be used to buy various abilities, equipment, or to secretly increase one's Ranking within one of the Attributes (though you can never take away the position of First from someone else). This means that someone who hasn't necessarily done very well in the Auction can still come out being very powerful, and what's very important is that they do this in a manner secret to the other players.
Well! The recent interest check for an Amber game appears to have been thoroughly misleading to me. If no one else pops up pretty soon espousing their wild interest, I think we're out of luck for this one (sorry, Doomkitten!).
Saw the interest thread but didn't get a chance to post, Amber has to be one of my favorite book series :)
I've played Amber diceless before in an RL campaign and it was great, unlike anything else I'd played before, or since!
I echo you Doomkitten... so.. much.. choice..! :D
In the hope that more people will see this and register their desire to play...
Viscount, how would you run the auction given how er... heated(!) it's supposed to be with the GM encouraging players to spend all their points on every attribute!?
Totally cutthroat - Exactly as it's meant to be!
The auction is one of the most important parts of the game, really. It doesn't just determine where everyone sits at the beginning, it tells you how invested the entire table is in a particular aspect of the world.
For example: You start with Strength, and only one player makes a real bid. They could end up with First in Strength totally uncontested, giving them the serious edge of having one of the prized Dominant rankings without spending many points at all. Later on, Psyche is hotly contested, with many players spending lots of points on it, but ultimately only one takes the rank of First. Let's assume that Endurance and Warfare fall somewhere more in the middle. This tells you that most of your players probably think Psyche is more important - but the person who is now First in Strength has the major advantage of having a Dominant ranking while still having a pile more points to spend on Powers, Shadows, or the other Attributes.
It's a very cool psychological game before things even get started, and also gives the GM some important clues as to how the players expect the game to go. Whether they choose to use those clues or not is another question; but still, tools are tools.
It occurs to me I only barely answered your question in the above. Whoops! Here's some more specifics.
First, each player starts with 100 points and gains the basic Pattern Imprint power for free, although a player could talk me into handing those 50 points back to them if they had a particularly compelling reason their character didn't have the ability to walk in Shadow.
I would start by explaining the importance of each Attribute in turn. Then, I would randomly select one of the Attributes and emphasize its particular virtues, and ask everyone to send me a private message with their initial bids for that Attribute. Then I would announce the initial Rankings and start the bidding. As things slowed down, I would give players a reasonable period of time to finalize their choices, possibly giving encouragement as needed, then finally call it when it became clear we had a final bid.
Rinse/repeat three times, and voila.
Welp, I'm gonna give this one another 24 hours in case of a surge of interest, then divert my energies. Possibly over to a Lords of Gossamer and Shadow idea, though, which is another diceless game by one of the same guys, using the same system with slightly updated rules and a different setting. Should that happen, would either of you who have expressed interest so far like to be informed?
Ah I have heard of Lords... but not read any of the material (yet!).
I would indeed like to be informed please, hopefully if the namedrop of the great 'Amber' proved insufficient to draw the crowds then the mention of a newer release might spur greater participation!
Here's hoping!
I'll dot in as a third before time runs out, and hope a couple more people follow along!
You know what, I'll throw in my interest. It sounds neat.
Well, hey, that's five people! If you folks want to get started on your concepts, then we may well have this thing off the ground.
As for more Amber info: absolutely. I'll get a more thorough 'The story so far' thing up in a bit. For the moment, for those familiar with the books, we are in the far-flung future from those. Of course, the nature of Amber and Amberites means that anyone from that era could very much still be around, and I'm flexible (to a point) on the history that's gone down. If you'd like to be the child of one of the specific characters from the books, great, but bear in mind you don't have to know your parentage at all. Once we get started for realsies, I'll spend some time chatting with everyone about their specific pasts and how they fit in to the world as it is now.
Right then, as promised, a bit more history of where your Amber stands at the moment. First up, if you've read them, disregard the second set of books as canon for purposes of this game. As cool as Merlin and the Ghostwheel are, there are some aspects of those books that I'm just not really interested in including. That said...
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In the far past, Corwin of Amber set in motion a strange chain of events that led to his creation of a new Pattern, and with it, a new compass for reality. Much like the Pattern that came before it, but changed in many ways by the different will that guided it into existence. It formed a third pole in the ongoing conflict between Chaos and Order - a force of Balance.
With Corwin's Pattern in existence, Amber and the Courts of Chaos found themselves in an uneasy truce. Ever aware of each other, but unable to strike either at one another or at Corin for fear of reprisal from the third party. And so, the three existed in relative peace for centuries.
As had always been, many Amberites found their own domains out in Shadow. Corwin's Pattern had disrupted many of the old establish shadows, creating new opportunities and undiscovered possibilities, so it was not unexpected that many of the explorers did not return for ages. But as time went on, it seemed to be growing harder to contact any of the Amberites living in Shadow, especially those furthest from Amber.
Shadow has been growing turbulent, making Shadow-walking harder, the concentration necessary to find your desire ever more complicated a prospect. King Random has issued a summons for all those of the royal line to return to Amber as soon as they are able, in a conference to determine the source of the disturbance and do what must be done to restore the balance.
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And there we are, more or less. The history there is left intentionally vague to allow for player/character input, but those are the bare bones. You can be related to any of the original characters if you like (except for Corwin, sorry), but presume yourselves to be of the younger generation for the moment. It's possible to be a lesser Amberite, even, not one of the direct royal line, by selling down some of your primary stats, but I can't say it's particularly recommended - being at anything less than Amber level of an Attribute is a major disadvantage. That said, it does get you extra points, and I'm willing to entertain all concepts.
So, knowing nothing of Amber other than what you've posted here (and the mechanics guide posted in the interest thread):
Amber is the one true reality; everything else (including you and me) stems from the Shadow, which can either be shaped or self-compose into realities.
Special Amberites (the royal court, maybe some others?) have the ability to "walk the Pattern," which may or may not be a physical location, in order to travel through the Shadow and create their own existences.
There were two factions; one which sought to bring Order, and another that did not. I assume they both "walk the Pattern" to do so.
Then Corwin made a "new Pattern" such to bring Balance into the conflict, which has resolved it for a number of years, until our setting takes place.
We the PCs can be from anywhere, at any time. We are called together as per the plot hook, but what we did before was irrelevant (largely) to the coming campaign.
Is that about right?
This markedly reminds me of the "Sandman" series by Neil Gaimon; powerful beings in control of reality have to deal with their own personal and interpersonal conflicts while still doing their "jobs" of maintaining all of existence.
Color me interested in Amber or Lord so Gossamer. I've played/run numerous Amber games and created a couple Lords characters for games that never really got off the ground.
Looks like everyone is intended to be of Amber descent but not necessarily from Amber or even walked the pattern (although default is to have walked it). Is playing someone from the Courts, either descended from someone from Amber (several options there) or not?
I've played plenty of amberites but never a chaosian. Could pony up the points to have both Pattern and Logrus or even if a descendant of Amber just decided to give it a miss (80 points is a huge chunk of change).
Have ideas for "just an amberite" as well if logrus isn't available.
So just so I know where to go from general interest, what would folks who are more familiar with this recommend as far as "character concept" goes? I know it's recommended to focus more on personality and goals and the like, but I admit it's difficult to come up with things like that completely discrete from actual capabilities as far as Rankings go. (I can more safely bank on other things like Items and such, looks like, as long as I make sure to save the points for it.) Any suggestions for what to shoot for?
For the record I have a couple ideas bouncing around, but nothing solid just yet. Also, I'm correct in reading that no matter what our Ranking is, unless we buy down an Attribute to Chaos or Human level, we're still far superior to regular humans regardless? So even if my Strength is 6/6 among the group, my character can still perform feats of superhuman strength.
Sorry I didn't get back to you guys until now, busy day. Okay, let's handle questions/comments point by point.
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YttriumDervish:
Amber is the one true reality; everything else (including you and me) stems from the Shadow, which can either be shaped or self-compose into realities.
Yup, precisely.
Special Amberites (the royal court, maybe some others?) have the ability to "walk the Pattern," which may or may not be a physical location, in order to travel through the Shadow and create their own existences.
Thejeff mostly got to this one, but to reiterate - anyone with royal blood can walk the Pattern, but no one else. The Pattern is a literal thing located beneath the palace of Amber, and it is also a reflection/representation of all reality. There are also Patterns found in various reflections of Amber, though only some of them can grant the true ability to Shadow-walk.
There were two factions; one which sought to bring Order, and another that did not. I assume they both "walk the Pattern" to do so.
Sort of. There have been opposing factions within Amber, but I think you're referring more to the separate poles of reality - Amber, which represent Order and Substance, and the Courts of Chaos, which represent...well, Chaos. Members of the Courts do not use the Pattern to walk the Shadow, but instead their own source of power, the Logrus. More on that in a minute.
Then Corwin made a "new Pattern" such to bring Balance into the conflict, which has resolved it for a number of years, until our setting takes place.
Yes and no. Corwin did create the secondary Pattern, but for entirely different reasons; it just happened to work out that it became a force for Balance (this last is partially canon in the books, and entirely canon in our game).
We the PCs can be from anywhere, at any time. We are called together as per the plot hook, but what we did before was irrelevant (largely) to the coming campaign.
Mostly. You can be from anywhere (literally anywhere, fictional, non-fictional, your creation, established fiction, whatever), and any time within that world's canon, but Amber's timeline remains constant.
This markedly reminds me of the "Sandman" series by Neil Gaimon; powerful beings in control of reality have to deal with their own personal and interpersonal conflicts while still doing their "jobs" of maintaining all of existence.
Not a bad insight, although the Amberites have fewer particular responsibilities, as reality is mostly a consequence of their existence instead of something they have to maintain.
Thejeff:
Only the royal family can walk the Pattern. At the time of the original series, this was essentially King Oberon and his children. Since this game takes place much later, that will be more complicated, with people descended at various distances?
Yup! Also, the power and birthright of a true Amberite can skip a few generations.
Whether an Amberite seeking a specific Shadow finds a pre-existing one or creates it is a philosophical question, not of great concern to the Family, outside of drunken debates. It may be partly resolved in the books by the revelation of the Courts of Chaos - the place beyond Shadows "where I stop" - where what you find is no longer just a product of your imagination.
Not really a question, but I kinda just wanted to comment, 'cause this is an important point; that is, if the shadow realms are discovered or created by the Amberites. The more philosophically inclined among the family wonder about this (especially since Corwin's time), largely as a question related to how the family treats the people of the shadow realms.
For instance, the greatest Amberite general of all time, Benedict, is known to have tested himself by finding a shadow realm engaged in a giant war and guiding the losing side to clear victory; then turning around and helping the other side, then again, and so on until there was nothing left. The morality of it was never really considered, because they weren't really human.
I assume Logrus is canon for this game? It's in the core rules, even though it's only introduced in the Merlin books? What if anything is common knowledge about the Courts? Regular contact, history, ancient legends?
The Logrus is canon, yes, although not particularly available to players. While there was some increased contact with the Courts shortly after the events leading to Corwin creating his Pattern, talks quickly wore down. They did not come to blows again, since the balance was struck, but there has been only cursory formal contact for ages. King Random and some of the elder Amberites who serve as his ambassadors almost certainly know more about the Courts, but they don't often speak of it.
Amber tends to be a very character driven game. Characters need goals and motivations. How important do you expect goals in Shadow to be? Are most Shadow situations things that we'll be able to resolve pretty trivially or can they work as more long-term character goals? If only other real creatures (family & chaosites) can offer real opposition, character goals probably need to be tied more directly to Amber itself.
Generally speaking, if there is a problem out in Shadow not caused by someone more 'real', then a true child of Amber, woken to their destiny, can (almost by definition) handle it single-handedly, either through personal influence or by cheating and bending Shadow to fit their will. That said, there are often problems in Shadow with an origin based in reality, and those problems will often take more effort.
As far as goals go, often a goal out in Shadow is set by the Amberite themselves, setting a personal challenge or hunting for a particular set of circumstances that they want to find. That said, yes, usually real character goals are related to Amber, as nearly all real things are.
Archus Madwand:
Looks like everyone is intended to be of Amber descent but not necessarily from Amber or even walked the pattern (although default is to have walked it). Is playing someone from the Courts, either descended from someone from Amber (several options there) or not?
No one from Chaos in this one, sorry, this is a game for Amber - although some of the Chaos-ish abilities are allowed, aside from the Logrus itself, representing some Chaos heritage.
Loup Blanc:
I'm correct in reading that no matter what our Ranking is, unless we buy down an Attribute to Chaos or Human level, we're still far superior to regular humans regardless? So even if my Strength is 6/6 among the group, my character can still perform feats of superhuman strength.
Absolutely. As long as you don't actively sell down one of your Attributes, you're still superior to nearly any other being in the universe outside of Amber. If you've put even one point into any of the Attributes, then you're considered Ranked, which puts you strongly above even a regular Amberite.
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Okay, I think that was everything, yeah? Any further questions, or something I missed?
No one from Chaos in this one, sorry, this is a game for Amber - although some of the Chaos-ish abilities are allowed, aside from the Logrus itself, representing some Chaos heritage.
Fair enough, the game seemed amber family themed but I thought I'd ask. So someone could take, for example, shapeshifting to represent a closer tie to chaos than normal for a later generation amberite?
Are any of the powers from the book up for use other than Logrus? What about advanced powers?
I've got a few vague ideas, names, backgrounds, and motivations subject to change (or being created).
- Wayland - Sorcerer, smith, tinkerer.
- Caden- Shapeshifting to walk where few amberites go
- Trump artist, never played one
Fair enough, the game seemed amber family themed but I thought I'd ask. So someone could take, for example, shapeshifting to represent a closer tie to chaos than normal for a later generation amberite?
Definitely.
Are any of the powers from the book up for use other than Logrus? What about advanced powers?
So far as I can recall offhand. If something pops up that requires you to be from and/or have visited Chaos, then we at least need to talk about it before you can pick it up, but that's the only restriction. I wouldn't plan anything out too far before the auction, though - you never know!
I've got a few vague ideas, names, backgrounds, and motivations subject to change (or being created).
- Wayland - Sorcerer, smith, tinkerer.
- Caden- Shapeshifting to walk where few amberites go
- Trump artist, never played one
Glad to hear 'em! You are by no means required to nail yourself down to one before creation is complete, as the nature of the game can change concept significantly during creation, but I would like to hear at least one slightly more fleshed out concept before we get started.
Have you been reading my character notes?
Even down to Wayland Smith. :)
Also: you guys are nerds. I love it. =)
In contrast to what I told you earlier about the auction, Fiendish Zen:
The more I think about it, when we get around to the auction for this thing, I think I may try and organize a time when we can all log in to a live chat room or some such. If that proves impossible, we'll go back to the posting plan, but it will definitely make it all easier and faster if we can just hash it out over an hour or so instead of taking days posting back and forth.
Another question about the general superhuman nature of Amberites: Are they functionally immortal with regards to age in the Shadow? Obviously they live longer than average humans, as you said in your first post, but would it be fitting to have a character who's spent decades doing things in various Shadows? I'm still mulling through concepts but I think I'm getting closer and closer to something I like.
Also, not full questions and not related to mechanics at all, but I did ask for any tips or ideas on how to go about putting forward a good concept. Any advice on that would be very welcome!
Have you been reading my character notes?
Even down to Wayland Smith. :)
I'd be especially nervous if you were also thinking this for looks, symbol, and color :). (using some ideas I put together for an amber game that didn't get far)
http://arcanearcade.com/Downloads/RPOL/Wayland/wayland2.pngEven if we did have different names/concepts, I've found that pattern based sorcerers tend to look similar since you have to take sorcery and conjuration in order to buy an item that racks spells (the item being pretty much required for any sorcerer unless you have logrus). Those three things eat into your points so there is some similarity in numbers.
Of course Pattern and "ye gods its expensive" Logrus + Shapeshifting eat away the points. One of the reasons Lords of Gossamer made the universe traveling power just 10 points. Many thanks to Viscount for making Pattern just part of the basic character.
I'm not married to playing Wayland, the other concepts are also interesting.
Glad to hear 'em! You are by no means required to nail yourself down to one before creation is complete, as the nature of the game can change concept significantly during creation, but I would like to hear at least one slightly more fleshed out concept before we get started.
I tend to make Amber characters without being heavily swayed by auctions unless my concept is "number one at X"... none of my current concepts require that. For some the auction is like a drug and one of their favorite parts of the game causing drastic character changes (numerous times I've seen people unable to purchase a way around shadow). The auction isn't my favorite part (playing around in the setting is). I prefer to model my character and basically open with a bid of my minimum acceptable stat to make sure I can afford it then buy up after the auction if I have points left over and there are rungs I can actually afford.
The more I think about it, when we get around to the auction for this thing, I think I may try and organize a time when we can all log in to a live chat room or some such. If that proves impossible, we'll go back to the posting plan, but it will definitely make it all easier and faster if we can just hash it out over an hour or so instead of taking days posting back and forth.
I typically have trouble getting online in real-time. But I may only be making an initial bid anyway.
Another question about the general superhuman nature of Amberites: Are they functionally immortal with regards to age in the Shadow? Obviously they live longer than average humans, as you said in your first post, but would it be fitting to have a character who's spent decades doing things in various Shadows? I'm still mulling through concepts but I think I'm getting closer and closer to something I like.
My comments are by the fiction books and typical games, no assumption of how the GM rules it.
Amberites are functionally immortal unless killed and because of some of their powers and the fact they cast shadows themselves, even if you have a body they may not be dead (everyone potentially has a "doombot" that actually dided).
Some of the characters in the books have literally been around since the dawn of time across the multiverse (or at least the birth of all the shadows). Even among the elders (Oberon's children like Corwin) some are an order of magnitude older like Benedict with rumors of even older children.
Typically players are a relatively new generation but still may be centuries old. Some are actually the age they look were they human.
Basically Amberites are demi-gods akin to Hercules wherever they go and in some worlds may actually have the powers of an actual god (especially if they pay points for the shadow).
Edit for forgetting a note
Time flows differently in different shadows (always forward) so you could have been born centuries/millennia ago Amber time but be only 20 years old your time ... or vice versa. Tracking birthdays is painful in the Amber multiverse.
Raised by his single parent, Cullum, Jim spent his early years traveling with his father as he switched between assignments in the King’s Forest Service.
Eventually, they settled down as Head Forester in the Central Preserve, near New London, in the Colonies.
While he never knew his mother, he heard many stories from his father of meeting her, their courtship, her departure, and her eventual return, child in hand.
The stories carried with them a magical feel, with many implied details which were impossible in the stable world James was raised in.
It was no surprise to Cullum when Jim grew differently from the children of the other Foresters in the compound, and he always made Jim feel accepted and normal.
The other children never warmed completely to Jim, though they learned his value when team events or school contests were won by his efforts.
Jim expected to follow in his Father’s path and join the Service, but Cullum always said his mother would send for him.
It turns out Cullum was wrong- when someone came, it was an aunt, not a Mother, and she brought word his mother Deidre was dead.
Aunt Llewella explained that Diedre had left her a letter, explaining where Jim could be found and asking that he be introduced to the family by Llewella if anything happened to her.
Disclaimer: I love the Amber books, as well as Zelazny's other books and would love to play in his world.
I am already in 2 Mutants and Masterminds games and am wary of joining another play-by-post, but can't stop myself from doing a character.
I have not found myself to be particularly good at conniving and back-biting, so I expect to end up being manipulated by players and game.
So be it.
Jim is based loosely on the boy from Zelazny's 'Dark Traveling'.
My intent is to make him only slightly familiar with the politics of Amber, but have spent some time in several Shadows other than his home.
Loup: Yup, like Archus said, Amberite are functionally immortal. They can eventually show signs of aging, but never anything particularly detrimental, and not on any scale short of galactic. As far as characters doing things for decades in various shadows, it's not only reasonable to assume that, it's pretty damn unusual for them not to have done so. Most young Amberites, once having walked the Pattern, spend a large amount of time (i.e. decades, centuries, even milennia) playing with their new powers. It takes a while to get tired of getting whatever you want in an infinite universe of possibilities. Eventually, though, most eventually find themselves wanting the company of other 'real' people, and the challenge of a place they don't control at their whim.
When it comes to concept ideas...well, that gets tricky. Again, the possibilities are pretty much infinite. One fun idea I've seen people use is to pick a fictional/mythological universe you enjoy and create a character from there who found themselves unusually talented and powerful. You could be a demigod in ancient Greece, one of the Operatives in Firefly's 'Verse, a pirate hunter in the Forgotten Realms, or think you're a super in the Marvel Universe.
Archus: "Many thanks to Viscount for making Pattern just part of the basic character." You're welcome! For this game in particular, I just couldn't leave people without the ability to travel Shadow. This house rule has actually been a staple of every Amber game I've been involved in; all my usual crew seems to find the idea of sticking someone without the ability to travel fairly abhorrent.
And yeah, time is a tricky thing. Absolute (Amber, naturally) age is the only age that's important to most Amberites.
Cornielius: The loose impression I've gotten of Jim thus far is an Amberite who's not very interested in the politics of Amber itself; relatively young, a bit of a loner, still experimenting with his abilities. Sound about right?
An odd question: are you from the Shadow Earth that's familiar to much of Amber (our Earth), or some variant?
thejeff: Thanks for the advice. There are some reasonable limits, mostly in that an especially fast time shadow is relatively difficult to find. This is particularly true if there is opposition attempting to stop you in some way. Ultimately, though, if your opposition fails or if you're left to your own devices, it's possible to do very near anything. The same options are available to everyone, so basically everything's fair game.
A few more things to make folks aware of.
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Positions of Power: After the initial auction, we will be having another, smaller auction for major positions in Amber. This auction is different from the initial Attribute auction in that there are no rankings, and points are not truly spent unless you actually win the position. Also, all positions will be auctioned off at the same time.
The positions represent major responsibilities for your character and large draws on your time, but at the same time, offer distinctly advantageous powers and servants at your disposal. Any character is capable of claiming one or more of the positions. You are by no means required to bid, and if no PC takes one of the slots, then an NPC will instead take control. The Positions of Power are:
Warden of the Forest of Arden: Primarily charged with keeping the borders of the only land entrance to Amber proper safe, the Warden stands in charge of many lesser rangers and has particular control over comings and goings.
Sheriff of Amber: The Sheriff has the responsibility of keeping the peace within the Golden City. Placed at the head of a sizeable peacekeeping force, the Sheriff maintains a position of authority over the multitudes within Amber's walls.
Captain of the Palace Guard: Within the palace itself, the Captain keeps watch over the royal family and their riches. His small elite force of guards take great pride in their duties, and serve their Captain with utmost loyalty.
Admiral of the North Sea: The Northern Admiral maintains the bulk of Amber's war fleets, keeping the City safe from the occasional raid from out of the northern Shadows and destroying the various monsters of the deep that threaten trade with the Golden Circle.
Admiral of the South Sea: The relatively calm Southern seas require less of a military presence than the North, but the fleet is no less impressive. The Admiral of the South holds mighty political sway, the fat southern lands sending a constant flow of riches to mighty Amber as both tithe and trade.
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Heraldry: Not something that you necessarily have to do, but a neat piece of flavor that I enjoy. If you like, you can choose your character's "colors" - two or three colors that make up your formal wardrobe and most flags or personal heraldry. As in, "Aldric of the Green and Gold."
Additionally, any extra nicknames or titles you may have picked up. "Aldric Starbearer, Aldric the Master of Serpents, Aldric the Swift."
Finally (and again, only if you're inclined), you can describe your Trump (a magical card that represents you in a deck that covers each of the family). "Leaning on the prow of a sailing ship, sword reached out above the spray beneath a starry sky."
Interested, the only thing is I have never played the system or made a character or any such thing. What is the learning curve? Is it difficult for a complete noob such as myself to "get it"?
Thank for any and all answers :)
Interested, the only thing is I have never played the system or made a character or any such thing. What is the learning curve? Is it difficult for a complete noob such as myself to "get it"?
Thank for any and all answers :)
Is it difficult? Yes and no (I like to think mostly no). The system is fairly simple at its core, but open to a lot of interpretation and very different from most tabletop RPG systems. A lot of players used to other games get tripped up pretty easy (myself included).
Here's a simple explanation of the basics, as best as I can give it. As with any RPG, the player states their intent, and then you determine the outcome based on your stats. In Amber Diceless, though, there isn't any randomness to the conclusion. At its most basic, the victory is determined by the direct relationship of your Attribute with the opposing Attribute.
Here's an example. Aldric is getting into a sword fight with Valerio. The GM determines the appropriate Attribute - in this case, we're talking armed combat, so Warfare comes into play. Aldric is second in Warfare, Valerio is third. If they fight, without any sort of mitigating circumstances or trickery, Aldric will eventually win. Since the difference between their Rankings is small, though, the fight might take a while, and it won't take much to tip that balance.
And that's where things can sometimes get complicated. This is the heart of playing an Amber game, really - knowing how to bring your strengths into play in order to defeat your opponents. In the above example, let's say that Valerio is second in Strength, and Aldric is fifth. In a straight sword fight, Aldric's better Warfare will allow him to win, but what if we took the swords out of the equation? Valerio opts to take a direct sword strike from Aldric in order to clinch with him. In this case, the fight changes dramatically, switching Attributes entirely from the province of Warfare (armed combat) to Strength (unarmed combat). Because there is such a small difference between their Warfares and a much larger difference in their Strengths, Valerio is probably able to turn the tables. On the other hand, that wound he just took is going to make this a much closer contest than it ordinarily would be (generally speaking, Valerio's second in Strength would decimate Aldric's fifth in a wrestling match). Let's say that, in turn, Aldric is better than Valerio in Endurance, and decides to play it defensive, trying to hold out until Valerio loses too much blood to continue...
And so on and so on. That's a pretty simplistic interpretation, actually, as we probably play things out in a much more detailed fashion for such a close fight, going through each swing of the sword. One of the tricks for the players is figuring out who has what Ranking - there's a public auction to start with, of course, so you have something of a baseline (and most importantly, you almost certainly know who is Dominant in a given attribute), but you never know who might be hiding their real skills. And beyond that, any Powers or Artifacts that come into play can change things further, not to mention multi-person conflicts, but it all comes down to the same system.
I hope that all made sense: we'll get a little more into it when we get started, maybe do some sample conflicts so we're all on the same page about how this things works.
With all that on the table, I hope it doesn't sound too intimidating - I don't think it is, particularly from a mechanics standpoint. The character creation and number crunching is all very easy and largely handled by me anyway, it's the roleplaying that gets complicated; which, for me, is a good thing.
Well Viscount K, I was going to suggest doing all 4 auctions at once if you were going to do them on the forum, that way it keeps the pressure on the bidders trying to keep track of all 4 at once, and would mean the auction completes in a reasonable timeframe!
However the live bid idea sounds interesting, the only fly in the ointment might be international timezone shenanigans. I'm in New Zealand (GMT +12) for instance, and if there are other players in the US and Europe, that's quite a spread of times of day to arrange :s
Otherwise a fine idea :D
Also like the idea of describing our characters with favored colours and 'as a trump', that adds flavor right there!
Incidentally, I have a good grasp of a concept so don't take my silence as lack of interest, but I'm not revealing anything just yet :p
Cornielius: The loose impression I've gotten of Jim thus far is an Amberite who's not very interested in the politics of Amber itself; relatively young, a bit of a loner, still experimenting with his abilities. Sound about right?
An odd question: are you from the Shadow Earth that's familiar to much of Amber (our Earth), or some variant?
Yep, I'm going for young, new to the true reality, but not new to power/life.
Someone who doesn't quite realize what he's gotten into.He understands duty and feudal responsibility, but he's new to being on the royal side of the equation.
With a 'dead' mother and an Aunt who stays out of the limelight, he's not expecting what's going to happen to him.
I would say an Earth that is similar enough to our Earth that Amberites would be comfortable there, but not one known to more than a few.
This shadow earth is mostly peaceful, with benevolent monarchies rather than colonial powerhouses.
More agrarian, with magic known and part of society, with fewer past wars and more peaceful expansion.
Perhaps a Castle Falkenstein meets Redwall meets Star Wars cantina.
I would say an Earth that is similar enough to our Earth that Amberites would be comfortable there, but not one known to more than a few.
...
Perhaps a Castle Falkenstein meets Redwall meets Star Wars cantina.
You have a very different idea than I do of what "similar to Earth" means, but fair enough.
Similar in that you can get a cup of coffee at one of the many coffee shops, though they sell just as much chocolate.
There are cars, trains, planes, and busses, but the use of smelly fossil fuels is not the norm.
People grow up, go to college, get jobs, spend money, pay taxes, etc., but their neighbors might be satyrs or dance naked around ancient stones in the moonlight.
The real stretch is mostly peaceful, benevolent monarchies, fewer wars, and peaceful expansion.
Should be a real shock to encounter political infighting in the royal family while the kingdom suffers.
First, each player starts with 100 points and gains the basic Pattern Imprint power for free
As in the points for basic Pattern Imprint is paid for and you still have 100 points for the auctions/ goods/ positions?
Edit: I'm thinking Brown and Silver, with a Trump of James leaning on a boar spear, with tall spires standing above trees behind him. Or something like that.
Roughly spherical, similar mass, oxygen/nitrogen atmosphere, liquid water. What more do you need?You have a very different idea than I do of what "similar to Earth" means, but fair enough.I would say an Earth that is similar enough to our Earth that Amberites would be comfortable there, but not one known to more than a few.
...
Perhaps a Castle Falkenstein meets Redwall meets Star Wars cantina.
Heh.
Well Viscount K, I was going to suggest doing all 4 auctions at once if you were going to do them on the forum, that way it keeps the pressure on the bidders trying to keep track of all 4 at once, and would mean the auction completes in a reasonable timeframe!
However the live bid idea sounds interesting, the only fly in the ointment might be international timezone shenanigans. I'm in New Zealand (GMT +12) for instance, and if there are other players in the US and Europe, that's quite a spread of times of day to arrange :s
Otherwise a fine idea :D
Also like the idea of describing our characters with favored colours and 'as a trump', that adds flavor right there!
Incidentally, I have a good grasp of a concept so don't take my silence as lack of interest, but I'm not revealing anything just yet :p
I definitely hear the timezone thing (PST here, GMT-8). I rather suspect that my nifty little chatroom idea is going to die by the wayside, but I figured it can't hurt to throw it out there.
As for all 4 Attribute auctions at once...hm. I'll think about it. It certainly would speed things up. My first inclination is not to do it that way, though. The Attributes are so centrally important, and such a large point investiture (often, anyway), that I'd rather allow people to focus on them one at a time instead of risking someone making a simple math mistake or overlooking someone else's bid and getting screwed over forevermore. Also, it will let me take the time to individually emphasize the importance and utility of each one for any newbies we may have in the group as they bid, which I think is only fair. Ultimately, I guess it depends on how many people we have in the final group and how familiar everyone involved is with the system.
First, each player starts with 100 points and gains the basic Pattern Imprint power for freeAs in the points for basic Pattern Imprint is paid for and you still have 100 points for the auctions/ goods/ positions?
Yes, although I'm toying with allowing for a few more points as an allowance for the existence of the positions of power. We'll see once we've got our full crew together.
Roll call!
The Doomkitten, interested, with a basic idea but no full concept yet (haven't heard from you since initial posts, you still in?).
Fiendish Zen, with a mysteeeerious concept. Feel free to PM me if there are aspects you'd like to discuss without full disclosure to your fellow players.
Yttriumdervish, interested and pondering plans.
Loup Blanc, interested and mulling over concept ideas. Speaking of which, something I didn't mention before is the very simple concept of being a homebody. Amber itself is not without its delights, and while any Amberite worth their salt has been out in Shadow, it's perfectly acceptable to have been born in Amber and chosen to make their home there, carving out a life within the Golden Circle.
Gilthanis, interested but possibly worried about the system. No fear!
Cornielius, currently submitting James of the Brown and Silver, who was once James Willys from an uncommon Shadow Earth.
Archus Madwand, pondering multiple ideas.
thejeff, interested and pondering the same ideas (apparently they're great minds).
I think that's everybody thus far, if I missed you - whoops! Let me know!
Anyway, that's enough people to start looking into getting this thing off the ground. I'd like to see some concepts this week, aiming to make some choices by the end of the weekend at the latest (decent excuses can lead to me extending deadlines, but I've got to set a line somewhere so we know where to bend). At the moment, we have just enough people that I don't necessarily need to cut anybody, but I'm looking for compatibility of style as much as anything, so let's see whatcha got.
Oh, and like I said to Fiendish Zen above, if there are aspects of your character concept you'd just as rather keep secret, feel free to PM me about it and we'll chat.
I'm focusing more on the concept/name that didn't collide with thejeff. Likely going with a far travelling amberite with shape shifting... I like the idea of describing walking shadow while shifting form to take paths most don't.
As I walked around the tree I began to hear the surf ahead. Then, through a gap in the trees, I could see the cliff falling into an endless orange sea. Running I jumped from the cliff and scales rippled across my skin before I struck the water. My fins kicked strongly as I swam into a cave system toward a purple light. The sound of the water became a roar as it cascaded from the mouth of a cave over a waterfall. Feathers replaced scales as I launched into the mauve sky over a river cutting through a red desert....
Trying not to have eyes for concepts/powers that don't exceed my points and leave me something for the auction :)
Excellent. Love it.
A question regarding the mechanical bits, particularly the Auction.
Let's assume we all have 100 points, and haven't already planned on spending 50 of those on other perks. We then each bid away our points on the four attributes, coming away with a particular Rank in each. Is it possible to "tie;" can I bid 25 points in an attribute, and another player bid the same? Only if the First bid more, of course.
I also don't understand in the "buying-up" option. Say I want to secretly be second-best at Psyche; I can not bid any points during the action on Psyche, instead having to submit a "no-bid" in order to discretely raise my points? Likewise, if I bid 5, I am committed to having 5 points, and can not later raise this in secret? I just want to be clear going in, before I plop down a bid I'll come to regret.
YttriumDervish The bids by RAW go like this: Everyone opens with an initial bid then bidding really commences for the highest value. Whatever your last bid was, is what you spend (once bid those points are spent on that attribute). Then the attributes are ranked in order of how much was spent. After the auction you can choose to "buy-in" at one of the existing ranks and you are considered rank X.5.
So say the bidding for Warfare ends up at
Rank 1: 60
Rank 2: 57
Rank 3: 20
Rank 4: 1
Anyone can secretly plop down a total of 60 points on warfare and be rank 1.5.
If you want to be ranked at all, it would be wise to at least start with an opening bid. Attribute auctions can be very top heavy or have big gaps in their costs.
@Archus - Okay, I get it. If I want to own in Endurance, but it happens to be the last slot on the block, I'm free to bid 1 on each of the other three, spend what I need to be First in Endurance, and then spend the rest of my points to up the other stats to no higher than the top guy.
Makes sense, thanks!
@YttriumDervish Yep, you don't even have to bid on the initial auction at all to later buy up to on of the other X.5 ranks. You might want to bid simply to ensure there is a low enough cost rank for your comfort. I had one game where the lowest Warfare rank cost was 50... the GM actually ended up extending the ranks down so there was somewhere people could buy in at when we got new players.
I actually don't like the auctions because they didn't work particularly well with my group size, norms of play, etc. I've heard they are really good for large groups, doing a throne war, with a set cast of characters... not something that my groups have done. My one throne war type scenario had the cliche "call for volunteer to step forward and all but one person steps back" happen.