(PFS) GM Alice's The Blakros Matrimony (Inactive)

Game Master Alice Margatroid

Yeah, well, that is what I thought of. Do you think a magnifying monacle would be a better choice?

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Ok, thanks. Feat and HP are corrected.

I was converting this character from an old PDF to the current one I use for all my characters and I must have missed copying Enforcer over. That would have been sad as it is a feat that is central to her character concept.

I has shirt re-roll.

GM, Secondary Success Conditions have now been posted for all scenarios prior to season 5. Plan accordingly, and be wary of spoilers.

Yup, I saw them. Luckily for you guys the secondary success condition for this module is about as straightforward as you can get, compared to some of the really odd ones in that document :)

It's the 5th here in Australia, so I will try and get up the thread tonight! Probably after the League of Legends World Championship Grand Finals that I'll be watching in a few hours. :P Hope y'all are ready!

Ready and greatly looking forward to this one!

FYI, I've played "the Disappeared" and "Day of the Demon" with Kynrac, and I wanted to play the Blakros Matrimony because my local VC told me it was the same storyline. Is there anything I should know?

I have not played either of those scenarios, alas, so it is difficult to know. However, looking at Day of the Demon's description, it looks like it comes chronologically after the events in The Blakros Matrimony.

Actually, however, this is a good point. If you have any prior experience with the Blakroses and related characters (e.g. the Blakros Museum), please let me know; it might shape some NPC reactions.

First post is up!

Please let me know if you'd like your faction missions. They don't do anything but flavour nowadays, nor are you obliged to do them once you get them, but they're pretty fun to keep in mind anyway.

I'd love having mine (Grand Lodge), please!

As for the NPCs, if the museum is concerned I also played Mists of Mwangi, in which

Right. I'll keep that in mind.

I'd like to get Taldor's mission, DM.

Jakarno has some experience in the Blakros Museum (Mists of Mwangi, Voice in the Void, Echoes of the Overwatched).

I actually played Mists as well.

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Oh man, I just realized that with 150 gp more I could get Glamered on my Armor. What do people think, is it worth selling my Warhammer to get it?

I've played Voice in the Void, so have rescued one of the younger Blakroses from the basement of the museum. (not much of a spoiler there, since it's in the summary text of the scenario)

Terril, who did you rescue, do you remember their name? Spoiler it if you please.

Trys, unfortunately it is against the PFS rules to borrow money from or give money to someone in that manner.

In Pathfinder Society Organized Play, you may never buy items from, sell items to, or trade items with another player. You may, however, allow another player to borrow an item for the duration of a scenario. You are also permitted to spend your character's gold to help a party member purchase spellcasting services such as raise dead or remove disease.

So someone could lend you their glamered armour, but the only thing they can help you purchase is spellcasting services. Sorry, mate.

Terril, who did you rescue, do you remember their name? Spoiler it if you please.

GM Alice, you can safely assume that Kynrac will share any information he gains with his knowledge (unless I specifically mention otherwise).

So everyone feel free to open up the spoiler tags that result from successful knowledge rolls.

GM Alice - Shel's post about her handbag got me thinking about what we could resonably bring along on this outing. Terrill's armor and sword are both masterwork, so he could polish up his breastplate. And as a half-elf, his elven curve blade could be considered a culturally appropriate accessory. But I have to wonder if it makes sense for him to carry his mace, bow, backpack, etc. What do you think is reasonable? I don't want to ditch everything and have to defend myself with my fancy new jewelry, but some realism is nice as well. Since folks are planning to stay several days, they'll have luggage, so maybe we could bring all our gear packed away, just in case, but not generally be wearing all of it?

As for Kynrac, he'll put all his combat gear inside his handy haversack, and take the bag with him. Is this inappropriate?

Let me put it this way. My paladin, with a full plate and glaive, went armourless and largely gearless for most of the scenario. She felt this to be appropriate given the circumstances. If you feel it more important to have your gear and such with you, that's a choice you have to make with the information you've been given.

You can certainly wear your armour and gear if you like. As Ambrus has pointed out, this might not be a good idea. It's up to you to decide what you would like to wear.

You can certainly get your extra gear (armour, bags, etc.) shipped to the venue separately.

Kynrac, my understanding of a handy haversack is that it appears to be a backpack. Whether or not you'd like to wear a backpack is up to you.

Alright, then it is certainly inappropriate! Thanks for the insight. I'll have my handy haversack sent separately to the wedding as my luggage, and will only carry with me a scrollcase, which I should wear anyway for any important paper / invitation.

And this is what I get for being invited to Escapist Expo last minute...

Sorry I'm late everybody! >_<

Apologies all, had a big day at uni today and then a tough karate session tonight. Kinda pooped. So I'll reply in the morning.

Hey all - just a heads-up that I will be camping Friday to Sunday, so no posts from me during that time. Will dive back in on Monday!

Whoo-hoo! First 20 at the table >:D

First 20 at the table buys everyone a beer!

First 20 at the table buys everyone a beer!

Then I'm not doing Kynrac any favors by pointing out that the first 20 at the table was actually the very first roll of the game - Kynrac's Knowledge (history) check. But I'll take a beer from Mifune if he's buying. ;p

I think it was! But I'll gladly share the beer. :p

Shel Whispertongue PFS wrote:

First 20 at the table buys everyone a beer!

Then I'm not doing Kynrac any favors by pointing out that the first 20 at the table was actually the very first roll of the game - Kynrac's Knowledge (history) check. But I'll take a beer from Mifune if he's buying. ;p

I stand corrected! Kyrnac is buying xD

Indeed I am! Consider your glass full, friend.

GM Alice, just a question about Discovery checks. How do they work exactly? Do we have to declare a Discovery check before knowing what skill it's going to be? Or is it Sense Motive by default and you would accept some other skills instead on a case-by-case basis?

There are actually a variety of different skills that work for each individual NPC. I guess for the ease of future use I'll let you know which skills are applicable. Although of course other skills might also work depending on how you use them...

Discovery Checks
Nigel Aldain - Diplomacy or Knowledge (local)
Alexander Bedard - Sense Motive
Hamaria Blakros - Sense Motive
Tancred Desimire - Knowledge (nobility) or Sense Motive
Jeon Raeng-Woo - Heal or Sense Motive
Commander Rubaani Shafar - Knowledge (history) or Knowledge (nobility)

Response will come tomorrow. I have an assignment due at midnight that I didn't realise was due at all until lunchtime today... ever so slightly busy scrambling to make up for lost time. :P

Alright, after some consideration and discussion with another GM I respect, I've got some things to point out. This is particularly aimed at Trys, but the standards apply to everyone else all the same.

Trys, while I understand your character concept is built around the Intimidomancer, your ridiculously high modifier is incredibly disruptive for this scenario played as-written. As you pointed out (and I did not realise until I checked), if you succeed a check by more than 5 points you will receive extra Influence successes.

This ultimately means that you can solo the social part of this adventure with absolutely nothing to stop you. You have near-zero chance of failure and you nullify all other players enjoying what is a very large and important part of the scenario.

I do not want this to happen. That is not fair to everyone else playing in this game.

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As a result, while I will not take back the actions of the first round, this is how I will play things from now on. Again, these rules apply to everyone.

1) You cannot take 10 on Influence/Discovery checks. Take 10 is meant to represent mundane tasks when you are not hurried or in any kind of stressful situation. Just because this is not a combat does not mean it is a mundane situation. In fact, this is an incredibly stressful and high-stakes environment!

2) This was in play before, but I'll make it clear - your methods may have flow-on repercussions with other NPCs. Take for example the intimidation of Rubaani Shafar; this may have negative implications with other NPCs connected with her. Likewise, a botched Bluff or other social misstep may have negative effects.

3) If you're scaring the NPCs like this, they are probably going to avoid you and not be interested in subsequently talking to you again. You will have increased difficulty in performing multiple Influence checks on the same NPC - because, at the very least, even if you can greatly influence them and receive multiple points for one action, other people can still get a chance at talking to the NPCs.

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I firmly believe that this is the best way to uphold the 'rule of fun' for this scenario and allow everyone to feel like they're useful.

I don't want to penalise you for having an optimised character. But I also do not want you to solo half of the adventure either.

If you have any problems with my rulings, please feel free to respond and talk to me about it, whether in public or private. If you prefer, you can message the Online VL/VC staff (Joseph Caubo is the VC, I am unaware of his VLs offhand although I will find them out for you if you like) to talk about this.

Seems fair enough. I hadn't even realized that the option of taking 10 existed in this scenario xD

Assuming the flow-on repercussions are reasonable (read not -10), I have no issues with that.

I know Trys is broken in certain situations, I believe I mentioned that earlier. I have been letting others select their guests before I do to give people a chance to shine with the NPCs the choose. Trys is kind of a loner anyway so it works out well.

EDIT
I also plan to refrain from using Dazzling Display since I picked that up at level 5 and I originally wanted to play this while still level 4. Given my build, it can turn certain combats into a cake walk.

Oh, it wouldn't be a -10 or something ridiculous.

Thank you for being understanding. A static DC with the (imo rather stupidly low) scaling success bonuses makes it rather problematic.

Well, for the average character who has social skills, it's not that low on the scaling. Hitting a 25 or whatever is difficult when you only have a +8 or +9. Usually that requires an aid or two to get there.

Sure, but this mod has a subtier 6-7 as well... and the DCs stay the same. A level 6-7 character could easily have +12 on their check without really investing much into the skill at all.

Ah, yes indeed. It would be nice if the DCs scaled with level. Perhaps the author thought that more experienced Pathfinders would have a relatively easier time of it because they are better known? Or perhaps he just overlooked it.

On the flip side, the combats in tier 6-7 are BRUTAL. I killed a character at that tier and the rest of the party were forced to run away and regroup.

-Posted with Wayfinder

The combats are pretty brutal at 3-4 as well. That final encounter... *shudder*

You can't aid another on Knowledge checks (unless you were doing research in a library or something, for example) - it doesn't make sense. The check represents a binary state - either you do or do not know something. You can't "help" someone on this.

In any case, using untrained Kn. Local to help on a Kn. Planes check isn't getting anywhere. :P

Neither of you know anything, ultimately!

I disagree, and I've seen it done in many settings. If I'm trying to remember something, and I'm talking with another person who also knows a little bit about the subject, I'm much more likely to be able to recall something useful. This is true in real life, and is how I've seen it applied in Pathfinder, and it seems quite reasonable. And the rules don't say anything about not being able to aid another on Knowledge checks. Having said all that, they do say, "In many cases, a character's help won't be beneficial..." and if that's how you see this situation, so be it.

As to which Knowledge skill I used - I goofed. I looked at your answer to which ones applied to the situation and picked the one that made the most sense for Terrill to know something about, but forgot to check which skill Kynrac had actually used. But Terrill doesn't have training in either, so the result of his roll would be the same.

I was actually asking for aid another on the diplomacy check next round. By the way, is asking a guard about the Onyx alliance and rolling diplomacy thusly considered a round action?

I was actually asking for aid another on the diplomacy check next round. By the way, is asking a guard about the Onyx alliance and rolling diplomacy thusly considered a round action?

I know, and I'll do that when our next opportunity for a diplomacy check rolls around. I just rolled the Aid Another on the knowledge check because Kynrac asked if Terrill knew anything and, lacking any ranks in the actual Knowledge skill, the only thing I could do mechanically was try to aid your roll.

Well, in your case in particular, since the DC > 10 and you're untrained, you can't help anyway...

In cases where the skill restricts who can achieve certain results, such as trying to open a lock using Disable Device, you can't aid another to grant a bonus to a task that your character couldn't achieve alone.

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I still disagree on the Knowledge check thing, though. A quick perusal of the boards shows that people tend to have mixed feelings about the issue. I think it's a YMMV; expect table variation thing.

Well, in your case in particular, since the DC > 10 and you're untrained, you can't help anyway...

Aid Another wrote:

In cases where the skill restricts who can achieve certain results, such as trying to open a lock using Disable Device, you can't aid another to grant a bonus to a task that your character couldn't achieve alone.

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I still disagree on the Knowledge check thing, though. A quick perusal of the boards shows that people tend to have mixed feelings about the issue. I think it's a YMMV; expect table variation thing.

I really, really don't want to be a rules lawyer on this - I will totally defer to your decision on whether I can aid on a Knowledge check (though I'd think it's a situational thing, rather than a blanket ruling thing). But I do want to point out a couple of things:

1. The DC to aid another is 10, per the PRD section on Using Skills (at the bottom of the page).

2. You can make an untrained Knowledge check as long as the DC is 10 or less, so if aiding is allowed on Knowledge checks, an untrained person can help with it.

That's it, I don't need to talk about it any more, happy to get back to playing.

It's not about the Aid Another DC. It's about the skill check DC.

"You can't aid another to grant a bonus to a task that your character couldn't achieve alone."

You can't achieve, for example, DC 15, if you are untrained in a Knowledge check. You therefore cannot aid in that check.

If the Knowledge check was DC 10, you could (theoretically) aid another on that check, because you CAN achieve that alone.

It's not about the Aid Another DC. It's about the skill check DC.

"You can't aid another to grant a bonus to a task that your character couldn't achieve alone."

Excellent point. In my previous post, I was going to express mixed feelings about being able to Aid someone with an untrained Knowledge check, and the bit you quoted above addresses that.

Mmm. Like I said, the GM who ran it for me didn't actually use the scaling success rule - and I would not have done so if Trys didn't mention it. We were able to influence 5/6 of the characters without it, and that's with my Paladin refusing to have anything to do with Tancred (the one we didn't influence) so it's not like you even NEED it...

So our discussion of this led me to look at the Diplomacy rules more carefully. They say "A creature's attitude cannot be shifted more than two steps up in this way, although the GM can override this rule in some situations." While it may not apply perfectly, I'd read that to mean that in this situation a very high roll still couldn't check off all of Hamaria's 3 boxes in one attempt. And it kind of, though not completely, addresses the lack of scaling of the DCs as characters level up.

That would be the case if the Influence checks worked exactly like the Diplomacy skill. However, they use their own set of rules that says something to the effect of (can't check as I'm on a uni computer) "for every 5 points by which they beat the DC, they gain an additional success". That kind of wording implies that, yes, rolling a 30 or something means that you do immediately win over Hamaria Blakros. As weird as that is.

This is because it's not just Diplomacy that works; Intimidate, Bluff, and Perform are all called out as potential Influence skills.

(Then again, I also think that Intimidate is a bizarre skill to apply in most situations - how in the hell would you intimidate the head of the most powerful family in Absalom into supporting the Pathfinder Society?)