I hope you're ok with the long intro. ...
I like it, and it's helped me to flesh out some character aspects I was unsure of. Especially regarding his reactions to people offending him. As a neutral character, he's sometimes lawful and orderly, and sometimes tempestuous and passionate. He has such a wide range on both ends, in different areas, that Chaotic or Lawful do not apply. So, I'm happy with my choice of Neutral. :)
Also, I've enjoyed seeing the other characters' portrayals of their personalities. It is setting the mood for the party dynamic already. I'm interested to see the development of Rabbit and Vrykkas' difference of religious principles, too.
Role-playing is my favorite part of the game, so no worries.
I dig the intro, because as Ayla says, role-playing is one of the perks of PBP. You can really dig into the character.
I just got the Ultimate Magic PDF... depending on the options, would you be keen on me switching a spell, feat, patron, or the like? I've not yet had time to thoroughly look it over, and would never change anything I've already used in game. I may not even like all the options.
After looking it over, would it be okay to switch my Patron from Trickery to Enchantment (won't affect me until next level)? Also, if I could trade in inflict light wounds for bungle, that would be really cool (I've not yet prepared or cast inflict light wounds). :) If not, it's fine by me. Just fits the witchy enchanter thing I had going already.
No problem for the patron.
Let me read Bungle first.
Sure thing, thanks.
__BUNGLE__
School enchantment (compulsion); Level sorcerer/wizard 1, witch 1
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target one humanoid
Duration concentration + 2 rounds or until triggered
Saving Throw Will negates; Spell Resistance yes
The target takes a –20 penalty on its next attack roll or check that requires a d20 roll. The action must be one deliberately taken by the target on its turn. Creatures with more than 10 HD are unaffected by this spell.
No worries.
You're right. I was planning on Rabbit wielding her holy symbol more than a weapon. It would be a last resort for her to ready her morning star.
yep, one of the hands has to be free. Ayla will more than likely be slinging spells behind her animal companion, rather than get into melee.
Gonna be out of town through Monday. I should be able to post but don't feel you have to wait for me to post to continue the action.
Don't have a book in front of me at the moment, but I think Slings might require both hands to use, which means Ayla's equipment may have to be altered to make sense. I'll check into it more when I'm back home.
Ok, can you load a sling with a light shield? Rules seems vague on this.
If so, Ayla has a light wooden. Otherwise, she has a Hvy wooden to use when needed.
I've always found it odd that a buckler has so many advantages over a light shield for just a few coins more. It seems like there should be a bigger differentiation. Perhaps if you post in the homebrew or advice threads, you could find someone who's already playtested the idea for you...
I'll go ahead and update Rabbit's stats to reflect it.
Raw, buckler is superior than a lt shd, but it is made of metal, which puts it out of reach for druids. not sure if any other class has a buckler restriction compared to other shields.
With this house rule, I'd say that it equalizes out buckler and light shield a bit more, but makes Hv shied almost too good, thus making tower shields a less worthy choice over the Hv Shd. Most shield wielding characters are gonna have a +1 to their ac all around.
Will be taking lt shield, either way. Will update to the house rule
Thanks for the idea Markofbane. I looked at the archive, and decided to houserule it:
Buckler +1 AC, Lt Shield +2 AC, Hv Shield +3 AC.
Let me know if you have comments or other suggestions.
That's how I do it at home, too. :) I have tower shields at +4, but +6 if you take no more than a 5 foot step. IRL shields win the day for defense, especially when coupled with medium or heavy armor.
Not saying you have to necessarily change anything, just putting my thoughts down.
I sort of wish Estelle had cast lullaby, as that -2 on saves vs. sleep effects could've been handy to take advantage of. ;)
Primordial,
I enjoyed the combat. I wish I could've thought of a way to meaningfully interact with the fireplace or bar (I was thinking of using spark to ignite something) in some way, but otherwise was happy with it. I love the female bugbear's manner of speech. :)
As for the tying up, I apologize if I came off as nit-picking, I just went based off what Pathfinder says, under the rules for grappling (p 200):
"Tie Up: If you have your target pinned, otherwise restrained, or unconscious, you can use rope to tie him up. This works like a pin effect, but the DC to escape the bonds is equal to 20 + your Combat Maneuver Bonus (instead of your CMD). The ropes do not need to make a check every round to maintain the pin. If you are grappling the target, you can attempt to tie him up in ropes, but doing so requires a combat maneuver check at a –10 penalty. If the DC to escape from these bindings is higher than 20 + the target’s CMB, the target cannot escape from the bonds, even with a natural 20 on the check."
Since the CMB is added to the 20, I assumed that Aid Another was viable. Also, since you ruled that a CMB roll was needed, as opposed to the method above, it seemed to support my assumption that tying someone up when CMB is involved, it would be able to benefit from Aid Another.
Do you have any other combat house rules that are different than Pathfinder? I don't mind a case-by-case basis, just curious to know what to expect. (I'm honestly sorry if that sounded snarky, I just wasn't sure how else to word it.)
Now it's time to get some information from that bugbear... >:D
Also, assuming rough-housing and mild torture, if the party doesn't step in to dissuade Viyko, would that net him the ability to take 20 (2 minutes) on an Intimidate check if the bugbear doesn't get free? Viyko can take the bugbear into the kitchen to spare Tika, and even use some spice in the open wounds...
As Eberron tends to have shifty alignment, and we are all war vets, I'm assuming torture is a tactic we've all been around, and Viyko likely was used to due to being a scout (both giving and receiving). If this is too taboo, or an irredeemably evil act (necessitating and alignment shift), I'll alter his actions as follows:
Viyko kicks the bugbear in the head until she is unconscious (subdual, 1d3+1 until unconscious). He then recommends that they take the bugbear to the local authorities for "official questioning." (thereby outsourcing the torture, but he asks to remain present for the questioning.) He also asks that the other be stabilized and kept unconscious (forcibly so, if necessary) and drug to the authorities, too.
1st action point used!
The bug bear seems mad, so I thought that a different approach was needed. Thus Ayla's threat. It was a gamble, but I thought it was worth the shot.
Combat seemed normal enough, I always seemed to be perfectly timed to post when group three was up, so the group formatting never seemed very different. Might have info as we continue.
As for the tie up rules, I didn't know them so I was just going with the flow.
Hopefully Ayla's speaking text with her spirit totem's is not to flashy. trying to make her seem nearly possessed and feral with it in use. I can always town down the BBCode or the cap locks a bit if it is too much.
I like the E6 capstones. But I believe the capstones for Rabbit's domains, Healing and Luck, get the second ability at 6th level rather than 8th.
Rabbit, you're right, a few domains get it at 6th. Let me know if you feel it's unfair. Could you also check the subdomain abilities that start at 8th, let me know if you would prefer those.
I'll be away Friday, Saturday and Sunday.
I don't know that I would consider it unfair, really. Perhaps it could be opened up a little to be the level 8 ability for any domain that is appropriate for their diety. So in Rabbit's case, she could select the level 8 ability for the Good domain (which is part of her diety's portfolio, but not one she selected at level 1), or the level 8 ability for the Restoration subdomain (she has the healing domain, but normally you can't have a domain and one of its subdomains at the same time. Just a suggestion; you'd have to look closely to see if that seems balanced to you. Otherwise, I'm fine with the abilities and capstones as is. In fact, as is, it would cover her if I decided to take a level of rogue or ranger.
I am going to be out of town Sunday through Sunday, but will be able to post intermittently as long as I have internet. A family thing came up and I have to drive to NC.
Sunday-Monday I'll likely be unavailable, and then the following Sunday. Tues-Sat I should be able to post here and there.
If combat happens and I am not there, either assume Viyko fights defensively and shoots his bow/uses Slumber hex from a safe distance, or else he runs for help. If you like, he can just be off investigating leads or helping set up a social trap somewhere, or something. Let me know.
Please be advised that I will be away next week and I don't know whether I will be able to post at all.
Sorry it took so long to comment on these.
Most classes get a pretty good ability at 6th level. Giving them more would be like granting them a level and a half at 6th level. Not saying that is a bad thing or anything. Then there is the problem with clerics that Rabbit pointed out... I would either make capstone feats that the players can purchase and let them use the oodles of feats to "purchase" them, or maybe grant such an ability every 5 or ten feats or something.
Assuming we're staying with the capstone abilities at 6th level...
Barbarian: DR 1/-
Good, If I was a barbarian, I would like this capstone.
Bard: Dirge of Doom.
Good, If I was a bard, I would like this capstone.
Cleric: Second Domain Power, usually available at level 8.
Due to what Markofbane pointed out, Channel energy 4d6 might be better choice. Might be able to work out 8th level domain powers through feats through.
Druid: Wild shape as Plant Shape I.
might be a bit weak, but giving the whole wild shape increase for 8th level might be a little too good. I don't have enough experience with wildshape in Pathfinder.
Fighter: Armor Training II and counts as Fighter 8 for the purpose of meeing prerequisites for combat feats.
good.
Monk: Unarmed damage 1d10 and AC +2.
very good, but I would argue that wholeness of body would be good as a capstone ability too.
Paladin: Aura of Resolve.
hmm. Ability to smite 3 times a day is a huge contender... both are good.
Ranger: Swift Tracker.
either woodland stride and this are good.
Rogue: Improved Uncanny Dodge.
good, but better sneak attack might be a good contender.
Sorcerer: Bloodline Power, as 9th level.
only one reaching out for 9th level, but I don't know what else you would do, might be too powerful
Wizard: School Power, as 8th level.
good.
Have not had much experience with the apg classes to give an opinon.
These are just the opinions off the top of my head, don't feel like you got to change them or anything.
*Combat Training [Combat] Frequent and focused combat training have increased your battle prowess Benefit: Your Base Attack Bonus increases by 1. Special: You may only take this feat twice.
Thoughts: This is good, but it's existence will weaken the fighter's capstone ability. maybe a caveat that a fighter can take higher level feats if this feat is taken?
*Expansive Skill Benefit: Upon taking this feat you acquire 4 skill ranks. Special: You may select this feat multiple times.
Thoughts:One thing to consider is to grant a single skill rank and a feat. when giving out epic feats. I never thought of it for my E8 game, but it sounds pretty neat. regardless, this feat works good either way.
*Caster Training Prerequisite: Character level 6, Ability to cast Arcane or Divine spells. Benefit: Choose a spell casting class that you have, your effective caster level for that class is two levels higher. This does not grant you additional spells or slots. Special: You may take this feat multiple times, however, you are required to choose a class with which you have not taken this feat.
thoughts: This seems pretty powerful. I'd break it into two feats like the BAB one. Or split it into schools like spell focus.
*Expanded Casting Prerequisite: Character Level 6th Benefit: Choose a spellcasting class in which you have levels. You gain an additional spell slot. This spell slot can be used at any level you can already cast. This feat may grant a maximum of two additional spell slots at any spell level.
thoughts: Maybe a prerequisite of having taken this feat for lower level spells before allowing access for higher level spells. If I took this feat as is I's take two 3rd level slots of the bat in a heart beat.
*Advanced Rogue Talent Prerequisite: Rogue 6, Rogue Talent feat Benefit: You learn one Advanced Rogue Talent of your choice.
thoughts: hmm, these are 10th level abilities... just warning.
*Extra Domain Prerequisite: Cleric 6, Knowledge (Religion) 6 Ranks, Skill Focus: Knowledge (Religion) Benefit: You gain the domain powers and spell list of one additional domain associated with your deity.
thoughts: ...for druids too?
Also, have you thought of gestalt feats or something like that?
Ok, I will give until Monday, for Vrykkas to show up. I haven't seen any post announcing he wouldn't be around, though I did say myself I might be on and off.
Please let me know when you can't be around. Scranford/Estelle had warned me.
Again, I am very sorry, and I will leave the game. Especially now that you've made this public.
I, as a player, am trying to play my character as best as possible, with limited information and vague input. I am sorry that I frustrate you when I ask for clarification and terrain details. They are obviously not as important to you as they are to me, and it is likely due to a difference in gaming styles.
Viyko is a scout, mage, and strategist. His Intelligence is higher than most real-life people. I am trying to play him to that potential. He plans ahead, takes into consideration terrain, advantages, and disadvantages.
As a player, I am not certain whether Kalag is really Kalag or a decoy, and neither is Viyko. He sees 15 adversaries in the courtyard, other than Kalag, and unspecified creatures in the shadows, 20-30 ft away. He is in an open courtyard that is hard to imagine with your brief description. Are the walls in disrepair enough to make Climb DCs easier? Is there a building surrounding the entire courtyard's walkway, or just one side, that we all walked through (or just 2 or 3 walls have buildings behind them)? Kalag alone will likely be a tough fight, as he is in charge of a merc operation. The bugbears we fought had class levels (in-game, they were obviously trained specialists), and there are more bugbears here.
I feel, as a player, that you either do not like, or are not willing to cope with, player ingenuity, planning, inquiry, and/or ad-libbing. If you had just said to us, "You cannot stray outside the module, and there will be people randomly stalking you along the way... deal with it." this would have been much easier. In-character, it made the most sense for us all to track down who was after us. I am glad you let us, and you made it clear through sheer numbers that this would not be an easy fight- even without the lurking bugbears. The fact that Viyko is willing to Scout Ahead, and risk life and limb to take a piss near "brutish" bugbears should be enough to let him see roughly how many are just in that section. He even boldly lit a torch and taunted them. I'd have been fine if they pulverized Viyko for that, as he asked for it. The point was to size-up the opposition before coming back the next day.
I'm fine with you fast-forwarding the timeline faster than we're ready for as a group, as you've been nice enough to let us backtrack as needed. However, you seem to be rushing us at times. If that is the case, let us know our parameters.
I honestly see no issue with me asking you all these questions. That's our roles in this game. Players ask DM for input, so that they may interact with the world, NPCs, and narrative (or sandbox), and the DM gives answers, moves plot, controls NPCs, gives advice/warnings, and adjudicates rules and disputes.
You are ruling, outside the rules in the book (assumed laws of physics for the game) that light works differently here (perhaps to suit your sense of simulationism or to inhibit a PC's attempt to survey his surroundings, by the rules; torch + dim light/drakness = bright light/dim light... enough to see by), which I was fine with, as long as it was plausibly explained. I asked behind spoilers. You got upset and posted openly.
I feel as if I am being singled out unduly for playing tactically. If you do not like so many player questions, perhaps try being more explicit in your intent. Tell your players the parameters of the "scene" you have built... for example, "This is not a combat encounter, so chill out on the tactical positioning and stuff. No need to sneak in weapons. Wait until tomorrow and stop looking around to see if you're about to get jumped."
Seriously, what would you do as a player in this situation? Heroes do not sit by passively and wait for their environment to act upon them. They act. They seek out their own avenues of success. Sometimes they fail horribly. If a person knows how sunlight and torches work, from a player's standpoint, as well as an in-character 2-levels-worth-of-life-experience standpoint, then they should expect light to function a certain way. It is perfectly reasonable for the player to privately ask whether the light source seemed "normal" and then explain WHY that question was posed. Based on metagame knowledge, should Viyko see a problem with the light source? If not, why? Oh, housrule. Got it. Thank you, let's keep going then, and I'll remember that for next time, and hopefully be able to utilize that tactic when it benefits me. Etc.
I was perfectly happy with the game, despite some early misunderstandings. I enjoy the world, the other PCs, and your narrative style. I do not enjoy feeling as if I'm villainized. Perhaps it is because I am playing a character that acts like a bit of a gruff hobo-jerk, and you are imprinting his personality traits onto me as a gamer. I just thought the idea of the character was fun. I can play him differently. Feel free to look at my other characters on here, and see how they've run. I have a plucky goblin psion in a RotRL campaign, a harsh neutral elven mercenary in an experimental gestalt random-gen game, and I am running a sandbox homebrew game.
Aside from some mild frustration at lack of details in the random-gen game, which the DM addresses when asked, you will clearly see that the misunderstandings and hard feelings are exclusive to this game, between you and me.
For the good of you game, your peace of mind, and not having to drag the other players into this, Viyko will leave the party.
If it helps, narrative-wise, I'll offer the following for your approval:
As Viyko leaves, he leaves a note to Kalag pinned to a hallway table with a dagger (which he had scribbled the night before) that reads "I wanted to see the man who sent people to kill me for myself. I hired on with these mercs after offing your bugbears and those they were sent to kill. Not as fun as I had hoped, sadly. Please be aware that I do not have whatever trinket you were looking for, nor did the corpses of my former compatriots. I am off to travel, and would appreciate no further trouble from you, or I will be back to curse you.
Also, you should kill your doorman, as he failed to confiscate a single weapon of the dozen I smuggled in, comrade.
-Viyko Kharde"
This should hopefully allow my character's exit to benefit the party by allowing them a possible bluff that Viyko killed them. Or, you can toss it out the window. Just trying to help out the party before hitchhiking across Khorvaire.
In the meantime, I invite you to chime in if you feel like it. It could help me figure out what I'm doing wrong.
I don't think anyone is wrong. Sometimes people interpret and envision things differently, it happens. After thinking about the situation and rechecking the light rules here is the conclusion I've come up with:
I think the problem is the current natural light. I am under the impression from what is in the posts that it is a sunny day, which would mean bright light. From what I would understand, the bugbears under the walkways shadows would be in normal light, which is why WCanepa is having trouble understanding why he cannot see them. Even though the bugbears are in shadows, the contrast is not enough for the shadows to be "shadowy illumination" and grant concealment.
Think of a house in the middle of the day with a single window letting light in. If it was sun down or a very cloudy day, the light levels would all be a level lower, giving the bugbears the shadows capable of granting concealment. I don't think WCanepa is to question your gming, I think he is just trying to understand why he cannot see them.
Anyway, I sure hope you decide to continue the game TPD. I'm alot more rusty with Eberron that I thought, but I think that I'm getting back into the swing of it.
I think he is just trying to understand why he cannot see them.
^That. And my obviously upset-due-to-hurt-feelings, overexplainatory rant above.
I'm still bowing out so the game can continue.
Just my two cents...since I'm out of the game I won't spend more :-). I don't think anyone is at fault here. I have experienced these same frustrations both in PbP and real life, and much of it has to do with the whole 3.0, 3.5, Pathfinder gamut of games. As much as I appreciate the system...and I really do...it got me back gaming again, as I play it I see certain limitations, and problems, which only grow as the game grows. The most evident one is Rules Bloat.
I understand the companies must introduce new rules and options, but as a player of the game it gets frustrating. The more rules we add the less imagination is left to both the DM and the Players. In First Edition the discussion of lighting, and all the strategic questions would have never come up, because they relied on the DM to make the call. There were limited rules to cover these situation, because the combat and even the characters weren't tied in to the combat meta-game. I understand you can choose to use these rules or not, and that you can house rule things to get them your way, but fact is, in these veneration's of the the rules characters abilities and choices are tied firmly to the games mechanics. The players have to ask these questions, to make wise choices for their characters tactics, and the DM has to follow / come up with the answers in order to make the characters planned abilities and reactions relevant. The rules begin to drive the story instead of the story being supported by the rules. Kind of a quandary...that grows worth with each rules supplement.
I will continue to play Pathfinder in real life...and wouldn't mind running it up till about 6th level (Thus the intrigue of E6), but to me things fall apart due to the myriad of options, and difficulty factor of running the more complicated encounters. Nothing wrong with that, and some people prefer that type of game, but I'm not one of them.
In my
Tabletop games I am now experimenting with Savage Worlds, and our other GM is actually going back to Second Edition (I still prefer 1st) on our next game. Maybe it's time for a "rules light" version of Pathfinder that brings back the story.
My main problem with the game thus far is my problem with Eberron (and this comes from running a 3.5 game set there from 1st - 18th level): I don't think it does what it wants to do.
Namely, it's not really steampunk and it's not really noir, and it's not really fantasy. It wants to be all of these things and succeeds in being none of them. It's a very interesting place that feels like it was edited down to be less interesting as development went on. It's too easily traversed, but not large enough to make rail travel worthwhile. It's got elements of cool, but no real connecting factor to make it cool.
It's like adventuring in Disney Land: it looks neat, but then you step behind the facade and it's all 2D.
...
-See, but that's why I play Pathfinder/3.x. I like that it blends roleplaying and tactical, gamist choices together so well. Whether character creation, planning for an encoutner/trip, combat, spells, feats, skill capabilities, etc. It gives the world parameters, like real life has parameters. Certain things can be expected to function in certain ways, allowing players to interact with the world on their terms best they can.