Myrial, City of Rogues (Inactive)

Game Master Rynjin

You've proven yourself to be a competent "entrepreneur". Welcome to the Mandrigal. Now get to work.


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Female Human Sorcerer (fey bloodline), level 7; AC: 17; Hp: 41; CMD: 17 ; Fort: +10 Ref : +10 (Evasion) Will: +13 (aura of courage, strong willed) ; Perception +5; Concentration +20, Init +2

Fort: 1d20 + 10 ⇒ (14) + 10 = 24
Fort: 1d20 + 10 ⇒ (17) + 10 = 27
Fort: 1d20 + 10 ⇒ (4) + 10 = 14


Male Human Monk 5 (Qinggong Master of Many Styles from the Sacred Mountain)/Fighter (Brawler) 3

Jo shrugs off her poison on the first try.


Male Oni-Spawn Tiefling Bruiser 7 - Wound 12; HP 60[74]; AC 22[23] (tch 20[18]; ff 20[21]) (+2 w/ Mage Armor); CMD 32[32] (+2 vs Grapple; +4 vs Disarm); DR 3/-; Fort +8 [+10], Ref +9; Will +9 [+11]; Darkvision, Scent, Perception +13; Sense Motive +18; Initiative +5

The problem is that Con drain has serious and permanent consequences. And we don't have access to 4th level spells yet. And the DC is really high. In comparison, an 8th level optimized caster would have DC 21 for his highest level spell. (10 + 4 spell level + 5 attribute +1 headband + 1 Spell Focus)

Fort: 1d20 + 8 ⇒ (12) + 8 = 20

Burning the house was a better idea than being ambushed.


Male Human Monk 5 (Qinggong Master of Many Styles from the Sacred Mountain)/Fighter (Brawler) 3

The Con drain is one time only, and it's hardly permanent. You can hire a spellcaster to remove it. Likewise, this IS his highest level spell, essentially (DC 21 on 1, DC 22 on the other). I think a Hold Person + Coup de Grace is more dangerous, but that's just me. I told you he'd be using poison, and that was his trademark as an assassin (implying he uses poison to KILL, not incapacitate), and you bought precautions that you for some reason didn't use. It'd be like if I told you a werewolf was coming and people bought silver but never used it.

Raging you had a 50/50 shot. With the antitoxin you still haven't drunk you'd get it on a 6-7. Chimon can give you a +4 with Heal, and if he does that (or you drink the Antitoxin) you've passed this first save and can ignore the below. I'm just saying you have options, so use them. I figured you ould handle it.

1d4 ⇒ 3

3 more Con damage, total 7. Make a save for the other poison as well, by the way. 2 saves a round. Drink your antitoxin, Rage, and you got it.


Male Oni-Spawn Tiefling Bruiser 7 - Wound 12; HP 60[74]; AC 22[23] (tch 20[18]; ff 20[21]) (+2 w/ Mage Armor); CMD 32[32] (+2 vs Grapple; +4 vs Disarm); DR 3/-; Fort +8 [+10], Ref +9; Will +9 [+11]; Darkvision, Scent, Perception +13; Sense Motive +18; Initiative +5

I still think 1d4 ability drain. That affects Con, of all attributes. Every round. With DC 22. On multiple attacks is excessive at 6th level.

1d20 + 9 ⇒ (14) + 9 = 23
1d20 + 9 ⇒ (13) + 9 = 22
1d20 + 9 ⇒ (7) + 9 = 16
1d20 + 9 ⇒ (8) + 9 = 17

.. Assuming he doesn't die of Con damage, Korak goes back to town. And spends however much it costs to get someone to cast Restoration on him...


Male Human Monk 5 (Qinggong Master of Many Styles from the Sacred Mountain)/Fighter (Brawler) 3

No, it's 1 ability drain, once. The rest is damage.


Female Human Sorcerer (fey bloodline), level 7; AC: 17; Hp: 41; CMD: 17 ; Fort: +10 Ref : +10 (Evasion) Will: +13 (aura of courage, strong willed) ; Perception +5; Concentration +20, Init +2

If somebody ask, we had nothing to do with this...in case the guy was innocent, you know.


Male Oni-Spawn Tiefling Bruiser 7 - Wound 12; HP 60[74]; AC 22[23] (tch 20[18]; ff 20[21]) (+2 w/ Mage Armor); CMD 32[32] (+2 vs Grapple; +4 vs Disarm); DR 3/-; Fort +8 [+10], Ref +9; Will +9 [+11]; Darkvision, Scent, Perception +13; Sense Motive +18; Initiative +5

"He had it coming. The guy was an undead assassin cooking poison in his home... If he was innocent of the crime we killed him for, he certainly was guilty of something just as horrible..."


Female Human Sorcerer (fey bloodline), level 7; AC: 17; Hp: 41; CMD: 17 ; Fort: +10 Ref : +10 (Evasion) Will: +13 (aura of courage, strong willed) ; Perception +5; Concentration +20, Init +2

Eh,uhm, so?, it soounds like us. Besides he did some work for the shadowmaster Right?Better to not have problem witht he shadowmaster


Male Oni-Spawn Tiefling Bruiser 7 - Wound 12; HP 60[74]; AC 22[23] (tch 20[18]; ff 20[21]) (+2 w/ Mage Armor); CMD 32[32] (+2 vs Grapple; +4 vs Disarm); DR 3/-; Fort +8 [+10], Ref +9; Will +9 [+11]; Darkvision, Scent, Perception +13; Sense Motive +18; Initiative +5

"He may sound like us. He wasn't us. He was our target... Now we just have to take care of the dwarf."


Male Halfling Clerk of Abadar 7 | HP 29/45 | AC 29/24/20 | Fort +6, Ref +8, Will +12 | Init +4 | Perception +7 | Agile feet 8/8 | Inspiring command 8/8

Chimon, on the ground once again, thinks back to the larder. "Agreed with Korak. This creature was worth eliminating, despite his irrelevance."

He checks the warrior's wounds. "I can't reverse the poison's effect, but I can heal your injuries."

Scrap blindness/deafness, hold person, for their respective cure spells.
3d8 + 6 ⇒ (1, 4, 3) + 6 = 14
2d8 + 6 ⇒ (7, 1) + 6 = 14

"I am ready to return to town."


Male Human Monk 5 (Qinggong Master of Many Styles from the Sacred Mountain)/Fighter (Brawler) 3

Korak shakes off the nastier poison, but can't shake the slightly less virulent one.

2d3 ⇒ (3, 2) = 5

5 more Con damage (total of -12).

Korak is also at -4, plus Chimon's healing = 24 HP.

I guess I'll refrain from using poison in the future, since Lemmy seems so against it.

380 gp for a Restoration.

The group returns to town, having killed one of their only leads.


Male Oni-Spawn Tiefling Bruiser 7 - Wound 12; HP 60[74]; AC 22[23] (tch 20[18]; ff 20[21]) (+2 w/ Mage Armor); CMD 32[32] (+2 vs Grapple; +4 vs Disarm); DR 3/-; Fort +8 [+10], Ref +9; Will +9 [+11]; Darkvision, Scent, Perception +13; Sense Motive +18; Initiative +5

My issue is not with poison... Nevermind. I'll just buy the Restoration scroll.


Male Human Monk 5 (Qinggong Master of Many Styles from the Sacred Mountain)/Fighter (Brawler) 3

I don't see any point in using it unless it's dangerous. A lone guy with a DC 14 Fort save for 1d2 Dex damage is hardly scary. The scroll would be more expensive, by the way.


Male Oni-Spawn Tiefling Bruiser 7 - Wound 12; HP 60[74]; AC 22[23] (tch 20[18]; ff 20[21]) (+2 w/ Mage Armor); CMD 32[32] (+2 vs Grapple; +4 vs Disarm); DR 3/-; Fort +8 [+10], Ref +9; Will +9 [+11]; Darkvision, Scent, Perception +13; Sense Motive +18; Initiative +5

Look... I don't mind. I just think the stacking qualities of the effect (multiple saves per round, high DC, affects Con, requires a 4th level spell to heal, reduces Fort on a failed save, affects the target every round) makes it a bit excessive to a 6th level party. It's not that big of a deal. I don't want to have any bad blood between players because of this. I apologize for sounding overly critical or demanding. It was not my intention.


Male Human Monk 5 (Qinggong Master of Many Styles from the Sacred Mountain)/Fighter (Brawler) 3

S'not a problem. I thought you guys had a handle on it (there was talk of buying a wand or scroll of Neutralize Poison and all that), but I may have beefed him up a little much as far as poison DCs (giving him a +4 to those particular poisons may have been a mistake). His final ability may have gone way overboard (Pernicious Poison or Accelerate Poison or something...basically slams you with the full effect all at once) but thankfully he never got a chance to use it.


Female Human Sorcerer (fey bloodline), level 7; AC: 17; Hp: 41; CMD: 17 ; Fort: +10 Ref : +10 (Evasion) Will: +13 (aura of courage, strong willed) ; Perception +5; Concentration +20, Init +2

In my opinion it was our fault for not drinking the antitoxins, and even then the encounter was ok...Lemmy is a whiner D:, i'm kidding


Male Oni-Spawn Tiefling Bruiser 7 - Wound 12; HP 60[74]; AC 22[23] (tch 20[18]; ff 20[21]) (+2 w/ Mage Armor); CMD 32[32] (+2 vs Grapple; +4 vs Disarm); DR 3/-; Fort +8 [+10], Ref +9; Will +9 [+11]; Darkvision, Scent, Perception +13; Sense Motive +18; Initiative +5

I don't know how to make it clear what I meant without sounding either whiny or condescending so I won't bother...


Male Half Elf Bound 7 HP Not Dead/67; AC 26 (tch 15; ff 23); CMD 27; DR 3/-; Fort +11, Ref +8; Will +7(Aura of Courage, Roll Twice Take Best vs Mind Effect); Perception +5; Sense Motive +0; Initiative +3

Talryn simply raises an eyebrow in curiosity. "He was an enemy of the Mandrigal. Did we need another reason to kill him? Now that he's been killed is it possible we could call his spirit to answer our questions?"

Talryn thinks hard for a moment.

"Hmm. The Viper once worked for the Shadowmaster. Now he's working for the Obsidian Guard. He might've been turned into that creature unwillingly since we're trying to track down someone whose been killing those associated with the Mandrigal and making undead out of them. We should find out if he'd been a ghast when he worked for the Shadowmaster."


Male Human Monk 5 (Qinggong Master of Many Styles from the Sacred Mountain)/Fighter (Brawler) 3

Quick corrections/notes: You didn't know whether he was an enemy or not, you just suspected he might have had the knowledge to potentially commit the crime, and he wasn't working for the Obsidian Guard (that was the Cleric).


Male Goblin Vivisectionist Trap Breaker 10
Rynjin wrote:
Quick corrections/notes: You didn't know whether he was an enemy or not, you just suspected he might have had the knowledge to potentially commit the crime, and he wasn't working for the Obsidian Guard (that was the Cleric).

I don't think that was communicated very well. "Very little is known about the assassin, codenamed Viper. He has no official rank within the OG, but when he's on a job his orders take precedence over many of the lower ranked guardsman. He could be said to have a provisional Lieutenant rank." So he's someone the OG work with enough that it could be said he has an honorary lieutenant rank. And as a personal character note, Talryn isn't fond of the idea of the Viper having once worked with the Shadowmaster and then working with the OG, possibly selling Mandrigal secrets.

P.S, I'm really liking PBP format since it allows one to find exactly where the confusion may have occurred.


Male Human Monk 5 (Qinggong Master of Many Styles from the Sacred Mountain)/Fighter (Brawler) 3

Ah, whoops. Yeah, the idea I meant to get across was that when the OG hired him, he had discretionary rank. However, I thought I had also gotten across that he was more of a freelancer, as assassins are wont to be. He works for whoever pays him. It appears I omitted that. Thankfully it wasn't particularly relevant as far as what information he may have had.


Male Oni-Spawn Tiefling Bruiser 7 - Wound 12; HP 60[74]; AC 22[23] (tch 20[18]; ff 20[21]) (+2 w/ Mage Armor); CMD 32[32] (+2 vs Grapple; +4 vs Disarm); DR 3/-; Fort +8 [+10], Ref +9; Will +9 [+11]; Darkvision, Scent, Perception +13; Sense Motive +18; Initiative +5

I actually thought he was a freelancer, but one that worked so often with the OG that he was part of it in all but name.


Male Halfling Clerk of Abadar 7 | HP 29/45 | AC 29/24/20 | Fort +6, Ref +8, Will +12 | Init +4 | Perception +7 | Agile feet 8/8 | Inspiring command 8/8
Korak Fists of Fury wrote:
I actually thought he was a freelancer, but one that worked so often with the OG that he was part of it in all but name.

Same here.

Are we dragging the body back for a speak with dead? Can't remember if you can even do that to ex-undead.


Male Human Monk 5 (Qinggong Master of Many Styles from the Sacred Mountain)/Fighter (Brawler) 3

Unfortunately, you cannot.


Male Oni-Spawn Tiefling Bruiser 7 - Wound 12; HP 60[74]; AC 22[23] (tch 20[18]; ff 20[21]) (+2 w/ Mage Armor); CMD 32[32] (+2 vs Grapple; +4 vs Disarm); DR 3/-; Fort +8 [+10], Ref +9; Will +9 [+11]; Darkvision, Scent, Perception +13; Sense Motive +18; Initiative +5

Well... Let's find out more about the Dwarf cleric. Against him, we have the advantage of being able to knock him unconscious, so we can possibly extract more information from him.

BTW, is there anything worth of note in whatever is left of the house?


Female Human Sorcerer (fey bloodline), level 7; AC: 17; Hp: 41; CMD: 17 ; Fort: +10 Ref : +10 (Evasion) Will: +13 (aura of courage, strong willed) ; Perception +5; Concentration +20, Init +2

10 for 26 in gather information about the cleric.


Male Oni-Spawn Tiefling Bruiser 7 - Wound 12; HP 60[74]; AC 22[23] (tch 20[18]; ff 20[21]) (+2 w/ Mage Armor); CMD 32[32] (+2 vs Grapple; +4 vs Disarm); DR 3/-; Fort +8 [+10], Ref +9; Will +9 [+11]; Darkvision, Scent, Perception +13; Sense Motive +18; Initiative +5

Didn't we do that already?


Male Human Monk 5 (Qinggong Master of Many Styles from the Sacred Mountain)/Fighter (Brawler) 3

Yar, you know about the Cleric already. Refresher:

Quote:
The armorer's name is Orgrim Dalshyn, a dwarven priest of Torag who holds the rank of Quartermaster. He has a house in the Clerical district, though most nights he spends the night in his forge at Obsidian HQ (the main one. You've never been there.). His family lives elsewhere. He's said to be a fairly strong fighter in his own right, and has powerfully enchanted weapons ad armor at his disposal, particularly his warhammer.

He's one of the OG's armor and weapons crafter and manufacturers.

Mechanically, he's basically a Forgemaster Cleric. Didn't figure that information was something it'd be useful or necessary to hide.


Female Human Sorcerer (fey bloodline), level 7; AC: 17; Hp: 41; CMD: 17 ; Fort: +10 Ref : +10 (Evasion) Will: +13 (aura of courage, strong willed) ; Perception +5; Concentration +20, Init +2

Well, then gather information for the obsidian HQ, the cleric aprentices, the peopel that work in the forge, and that kind of stuffs.


Female Human Sorcerer (fey bloodline), level 7; AC: 17; Hp: 41; CMD: 17 ; Fort: +10 Ref : +10 (Evasion) Will: +13 (aura of courage, strong willed) ; Perception +5; Concentration +20, Init +2

is there not a obsidian guard that owes us a favor for hooking him with a prostitute?


Male Human Monk 5 (Qinggong Master of Many Styles from the Sacred Mountain)/Fighter (Brawler) 3

Yeeeees, if I recall you did get one into a high class establishment. I wouldn't expect that to carry you too far, but maybe some inside information if you go chat him up?

OG HQ: Obsidian Guard headquarters is a large stone fort located about a quarter mile outside of town. It was abandoned for many years before the OG migrated back into the Myrial area. They've repaired and reinforced it heavily. Guard patrols are frequent and cover the entire area in a web that can catch almost any infiltrator. To get inside you'd need to either be incredibly stealthy (much more so than what Korak is usually able to achieve), or find some alternate route inside, pose as guards, or some other nonstandard approach.

Cleric apprentices/Forge workers: He doesn't have any apprentices, but he does have two assistants, Journeyman smiths in their own right. They're a pair of unnaturally large Orcs Orgrim adopted about 20 years previously. It's rumored they have Ogre blood, though they seem intelligent enough, more than many Orcs and far more than the average Ogre, so how true that rumor is is up for debate. What is indisputable, however, is that they are incredibly strong, reasonably skilled fighters, and can work a forge as well as any could expect.

Miscellaneous info: Orgrim works mostly at night. He's soundproofed his forge remarkably well, probably using some sort of magical enchantment that silences sounds leaving the room. As a result, his forging doesn't disturb the rest of the compound...but neither would anyone be able to hear him scream for help should he need it.


Female Human Sorcerer (fey bloodline), level 7; AC: 17; Hp: 41; CMD: 17 ; Fort: +10 Ref : +10 (Evasion) Will: +13 (aura of courage, strong willed) ; Perception +5; Concentration +20, Init +2

We need a NPC list :/


Female Human Sorcerer (fey bloodline), level 7; AC: 17; Hp: 41; CMD: 17 ; Fort: +10 Ref : +10 (Evasion) Will: +13 (aura of courage, strong willed) ; Perception +5; Concentration +20, Init +2

DO they live in the HQ?


Male Human Monk 5 (Qinggong Master of Many Styles from the Sacred Mountain)/Fighter (Brawler) 3

Yes, in the forge area.


Male Halfling Clerk of Abadar 7 | HP 29/45 | AC 29/24/20 | Fort +6, Ref +8, Will +12 | Init +4 | Perception +7 | Agile feet 8/8 | Inspiring command 8/8

Knowledge (local): 1d20 + 12 ⇒ (15) + 12 = 27 Do Orgrim and/or his apprentices ever leave the fortress? Do the apprentices command much respect/fear among the rest of the OG?


Female Human Sorcerer (fey bloodline), level 7; AC: 17; Hp: 41; CMD: 17 ; Fort: +10 Ref : +10 (Evasion) Will: +13 (aura of courage, strong willed) ; Perception +5; Concentration +20, Init +2

Somebody know what is the general attitude of TOrag toward udneads?


Male Human Monk 5 (Qinggong Master of Many Styles from the Sacred Mountain)/Fighter (Brawler) 3
Chimon Jivuran wrote:
[dice=Knowledge (local)]1d20+12 Do Orgrim and/or his apprentices ever leave the fortress? Do the apprentices command much respect/fear among the rest of the OG?

Not often, no. Orgrim is married to his work and his assistants are looked down upon by most Myria residents. They don't leave the fortress much because they have a hard time keeping their tempers in check around people who think they're stupid (which is most people who don't know them).

They're well respected among the OG, but not really feared. They're well known, and don't have a high enough rank or sheer brutality to command fear from Obsidians.


Male Oni-Spawn Tiefling Bruiser 7 - Wound 12; HP 60[74]; AC 22[23] (tch 20[18]; ff 20[21]) (+2 w/ Mage Armor); CMD 32[32] (+2 vs Grapple; +4 vs Disarm); DR 3/-; Fort +8 [+10], Ref +9; Will +9 [+11]; Darkvision, Scent, Perception +13; Sense Motive +18; Initiative +5
Jo. wrote:
Somebody know what is the general attitude of Torag toward undead?

"I'm pretty sure he's not a fan... But he's willing to overlook a lot of bad stuff when it comes to advancing the dwarfs' causes."


Female Human Sorcerer (fey bloodline), level 7; AC: 17; Hp: 41; CMD: 17 ; Fort: +10 Ref : +10 (Evasion) Will: +13 (aura of courage, strong willed) ; Perception +5; Concentration +20, Init +2

Not seeing what woudl be the dwarfs' cause here. - GI for what are the HQ protection agaisnt teleporting in and out.


Male Halfling Clerk of Abadar 7 | HP 29/45 | AC 29/24/20 | Fort +6, Ref +8, Will +12 | Init +4 | Perception +7 | Agile feet 8/8 | Inspiring command 8/8

Unless we can teleport with great accuracy, it doesn't seem like a good place to try to infiltrate. We should get some sort of proof that Orgrim's our guy before we commit to that. Scrying?


Male Human Monk 5 (Qinggong Master of Many Styles from the Sacred Mountain)/Fighter (Brawler) 3
Jo. wrote:
Not seeing what woudl be the dwarfs' cause here. - GI for what are the HQ protection agaisnt teleporting in and out.

That's not something the general public woud know. However, you do have your OG buddy who owes you a favor...

"Oh, yeah, we've got protections against all sorts of stuff. Nobody can just pop in or out with magic, for example. Anybody that tries to teleport in just hits a wall. All the main headquarters are set up that way. They wouldn't even let us move in until some hotshot from the main branch came down with his pet Wizards. Took about 5 of them over a week, but they made the place airtight."

Spellcraft DC 28 will let you recognize it.


Male Oni-Spawn Tiefling Bruiser 7 - Wound 12; HP 60[74]; AC 22[23] (tch 20[18]; ff 20[21]) (+2 w/ Mage Armor); CMD 32[32] (+2 vs Grapple; +4 vs Disarm); DR 3/-; Fort +8 [+10], Ref +9; Will +9 [+11]; Darkvision, Scent, Perception +13; Sense Motive +18; Initiative +5

"Doesn't the Cleric ever venture the streets?"


Female Human Sorcerer (fey bloodline), level 7; AC: 17; Hp: 41; CMD: 17 ; Fort: +10 Ref : +10 (Evasion) Will: +13 (aura of courage, strong willed) ; Perception +5; Concentration +20, Init +2

Spellcraft: 1d20 + 11 ⇒ (2) + 11 = 13


Male Human Monk 5 (Qinggong Master of Many Styles from the Sacred Mountain)/Fighter (Brawler) 3
Korak Fists of Fury wrote:
"Doesn't the Cleric ever venture the streets?"

On rare occasions he goes to specialized shops that won't come visit him to get rare materials.

It's very hard to tell WHEN that might be, though. Generally it's not more often than every 2 months or so, and the last one was a month and a half ago.


Male Oni-Spawn Tiefling Bruiser 7 - Wound 12; HP 60[74]; AC 22[23] (tch 20[18]; ff 20[21]) (+2 w/ Mage Armor); CMD 32[32] (+2 vs Grapple; +4 vs Disarm); DR 3/-; Fort +8 [+10], Ref +9; Will +9 [+11]; Darkvision, Scent, Perception +13; Sense Motive +18; Initiative +5

Well, the obvious answer is to keep watch on one of those shops.
"Tiny, you're good at talking to people... Try to find out if the Cleric moves accompanied by guards, and if so, how many and what kind of guards. Also, ask around and see if some of these shop-owners dislike the Dwarf enough to help us if we find them a viable alternative to their business... I'm sure the Madrigal has uses for someone who can procure such rare ingredients. One of their Wizards asked us to collect Otyugh's goo, for Desna's sake!"


Female Human Sorcerer (fey bloodline), level 7; AC: 17; Hp: 41; CMD: 17 ; Fort: +10 Ref : +10 (Evasion) Will: +13 (aura of courage, strong willed) ; Perception +5; Concentration +20, Init +2

Waiting for he to get out would take months, unless we find a way to make him do it

GI to see if the dwarf have interest in something else beyodn smithing, if he is waiting for somethig (like a spcial material or something), or whatever stuff that coudl be helpful to make him wal out of the HQ.


Male Oni-Spawn Tiefling Bruiser 7 - Wound 12; HP 60[74]; AC 22[23] (tch 20[18]; ff 20[21]) (+2 w/ Mage Armor); CMD 32[32] (+2 vs Grapple; +4 vs Disarm); DR 3/-; Fort +8 [+10], Ref +9; Will +9 [+11]; Darkvision, Scent, Perception +13; Sense Motive +18; Initiative +5

If it happens every two months or so and it last happened a month and a half ago, we only have to wait about 15 days.


Female Human Sorcerer (fey bloodline), level 7; AC: 17; Hp: 41; CMD: 17 ; Fort: +10 Ref : +10 (Evasion) Will: +13 (aura of courage, strong willed) ; Perception +5; Concentration +20, Init +2

JO will not complain of a couple of week of recess, but somebody coudl do the job first, or our eployers can get impatients


Male Oni-Spawn Tiefling Bruiser 7 - Wound 12; HP 60[74]; AC 22[23] (tch 20[18]; ff 20[21]) (+2 w/ Mage Armor); CMD 32[32] (+2 vs Grapple; +4 vs Disarm); DR 3/-; Fort +8 [+10], Ref +9; Will +9 [+11]; Darkvision, Scent, Perception +13; Sense Motive +18; Initiative +5

They're free to do the jobs themselves or stop telling us how to do it.

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