Leviathan Rises (Inactive)

Game Master Harakani

Aku is neutral, but he might slide towards evil due to the influence of his bloodline and heritage. Don't worry though, he won't ever side with the Old Ones. The Oni (his blood) need mortals to dominate and a world to enjoy, both don't work with Ctulhu and the gang.

As for being without spells, I'm toast in that case atm. Even with spells I'm not that fantastic yet.

That's exactly what happened :-). I checked for the discussion thread earlier but didn't show any connected thread. So I was just waiting for it to go up. As far as relationships go, I see Einar as a pretty easy person to like, with a good Chr and social skills, but a bad hot streak. Anton and Nicator may freak him out a bit by triggering his more superstitious side though.
Anyway, I've got my Einar pretty well updated on his profile. I was thinking of going really intimidation heavy and going with Intimidating Gaze and Terrifying Howl as some of his Rage Powers. It's a hard choice to go away from straight damage dealing since that is what barbarians do best, but it gives him some options in combat instead of just beating people down.

I'm still figuring out Shaezon's personality though I do have some of it. He's noble born, but since the cataclysm and his parents death that hardly means anything. He's a bit mentally broken at the moment. He was simply helping grandmother as best he could, but otherwise he just went through the motions. The need to help grandmother is the first thing since the Cataclysm that lit a fire in his heart. It'll be interesting to see how he develops.

Einar, didn't want to go Wis 8, Cha 10 and take Str 18? We need the melee. Just sayin, if you're the muscle, be the MUSCLE!

Also remember we're trying to be low profile... Heavy armor, big weapons, howling, will draw attention.

You can still be easy to like with Cha 10, is just a reaction bonus for strangers. Just thoughts, we're gonna have to specialize if we truly want to be the best at our specific thing. And trust the others to lend their specific strengths. With 8 of us, there is more opportunity for that.

I love we'll rounded characters. But I basically dumped all physical stats. And at level 2, I may tank.

If the GM allows Wildblooded bloodlines via Eldritch Heritage he'll be very tough eventually though.

He will

Aku Markas wrote:

If the GM allows Wildblooded bloodlines via Eldritch Heritage he'll be very tough eventually though.

He will

Woot! That will help make him quite a bit sturdier.

@Einar If you're going the intimidation route you might want to look at dazzling display, it plus terrifying howl can be pretty powerful. Also I wouldn't bother with more than 14 Dex, accept that you're going to have terrible AC.

@Tarek Well round characters are more useful in small groups, with 8 PC's you might as well be amazing at one or two things. Also, you're going to be a pretty squishy tank, level 2 or no.

Apologies for my delay in posting a finalized character. Basically, my insomnia has kicked in again and I'm in the midst of fighting the most retarded of colds. That and I've had a bunch of useless RL stuff happening which is all a fancy long-winded way of saying I just can't find the motivation to post something. By the time I get any real time in front of my computer for personal stuff, I just want to...not think about anything.

I promise I will have something posted in the next 24 hours (probably 'round noon tomorrow my time [which is New Zealand time]). Again, I'm sorry. Normally, I'm much better about this sort of stuff I'm just really feeling completely sapped of caring atm.

hey man, this is meant to be fun! I was going to say I'm not going to be able to post over the weekend (Australian time) due to being (gasp) AWAY FROM THE INTERNET!!! so why don't we say we'll aim to start monday night (5 days from now)

Agreed with Weyland on all points. Except still suggesting Str 18, and tentative about howl if this is majority urban. Maybe DM can advise.

Tweaked Stats. Teeny-tiny less squishy.

Aku already stands out with his weird hair and tattoos and it will only get worse in time.

But this was a high magic setting wasn't it? Then loud noises like roars coming from a cellar and explosions shouldn't really surprise people too much.

I am trying to write up the stuff for the campaign info tab - sorry about the delay.

One reason it is a high magic setting is because the people closest to the original creators were most likely to get in... so a lot of the population that died were the less-magical.

Roars wouldn't be too bad, large explosions will get people worried about getting caught in them.

AWAY FROM THE INTERNET!!!

I don't understand. You mean like dial up?

Walkabout.

I'm definitely adjusting the stats. I think I am going to go with the 18 Str. It will not lower the intimidate because of Intimdating Prowess. Pepper is sneaky enough if needs be, but we have rogues to excel when things need to be quiet. Pepper will excel when things get messy and we are outnumbered. Several of the Urban Barbarian abilities are geared that way anyway.

Awesome! Thanks for the consideration. I may be scrappy or squishy, but come level 2, I'm holding the line with you!

Let's get messy. But, only as a last resort.

So, after discussing things with the DM, I've decided to go Hedge Witch. Harakani has ruled that both class features kick in at level 1, so yay Spontaneous Healing. Given the party composition, that should be continually useful (especially since it gives me a tool against undead). I will, of course, attempt to debuff and disable enemies when possible, but more healing as an option is always nice.

I actually just realized that all of the casters have some flex--Anton and Aku are both spontaneous, while I'll have spont. healing, and Shaezon will have his bound spells.

Given that, here's an adjusted non-binding tentative progression chart, which will potentially change as the group dynamic and tactics start taking form

Looking forward to starting up!

@Einar: Stats look good, I would probably swap your Int and Wis scores, but that's just because I hate failing saving throws. Might I suggest a two-handed weapon, great club maybe?
With power attack and rage:

Club: +6 1d6+8
vs
Great club: +6 1d10+12

@Tarek Actually, if some one cast mage armour on you, you'ld make a pretty solid tank.

@Nicator, Hedge witch is a pretty good compromise, and considering there is probably only 5 or so must have hexes, you can afford to give a couple up.

@Mage Armor - yay!

Or Falchion or Eleven Curved Blade. Rock the Crit! +24:

Okay, I'm pretty much decided that I'm gonna keep my stats the way they are in that spoiler above. Now for traits, I think I've narrowed it down to a couple that are of interest to me but some are...dependent on whether they're allowed or not.

The first is Blade of the Society which is an extra +1 damage to sneak attack rolls. However, the back story of that trait is incompatible with this campaign (as this is not PFS). The knowledge can be explained into existence some other way.

Barring the allowance of that trait, my backup is either Anatomist, which is a +1 to confirm critical hits. In which case, I'll likely build Treize to be as crit focused as I can (so Kukri over regular daggers, and more crit focused feats). Or Dirty Fighter which is + 1 damage while flanking. I'm generally more in favour Dirty Fighter as I like steady damage o'er burst damage. That said, we do have two rogues so one can do the former, and the other one of us can go the latter. Best of both worlds, as it were.

The other trait I'm hoping to grab with GM's approval is Indomitable Faith which is + 1 Will Saves. Now, I realize that Treize does not have religious convictions, however, he does have a philosophy he is rather dedicated to and he has an unshakable faith in the tenants of that philosophy.

Contrariwise, the backup plan for that non-combat trait would be Forlorn (Elf) which is a + 1 to Fortitude saves.

I know my gear and stats, and I'll get around to posting them eventually XP.

Skills, I figure I'll be the 'face' of the party (I haven't dumped CHA completely, and I have all social skills as class skills + plenty of skill points [Bluff, Diplo, Intimidate, Sense Motive], thank you rogue XP). Additionally, I'll be grabbing perception, stealth, DD, UMD, Acrobatics, and Sleight of Hand. For rogue levels, I'll likely grab the skill point and rotate it between Disguise, Escape Artist, and Survival (which would be a class skill per the initial rules of this campaign).

Free Profession Point: I think I'm going to select Bounty Hunter.

The evil, self righteous guy being the face, I wonder how that could go wrong.

Like I said before, Aku makes a great face. He has 18 cha and both Diplomacy and Intimidate are pretty high (+14 and +8 respectively). He may look odd, but he's charming and a nice guy.

EDIT: Not saying there can be only 1 face, but you don't have to sacrifice things to be a "face", though covering Bluff and Sense Motive would probably be nice.

Freakazoid or no, w/Cha 18 and being Human...might work out better.

Did you say... Evil? Turns hand and holds little finger to mouth.

On an unrelated note I've reworked a little somethin somethin and now have Craft Wondrous Item. Gonna lean on you casters for Spell requirements for a commensurate fee of course or barter.

I trust this is OK.

For all of us that stick out... How are we not identified at the scene? Wouldn't a relatively lower profile lend itself to career success and longevity?

The evil, self righteous guy being the face, I wonder how that could go wrong.

Like I said before, Aku makes a great face. He has 18 cha and both Diplomacy and Intimidate are pretty high (+14 and +8 respectively). He may look odd, but he's charming and a nice guy.

EDIT: Not saying there can be only 1 face, but you don't have to sacrifice things to be a "face", though covering Bluff and Sense Motive would probably be nice.

Evil and self righteous, yes. But not stupid XP

Plenty of 'super genius' villain type characters get what they want out of manipulating other people. Consider: Lex Luthor; Emperor Palpatine; Bloefeld; Moriarty...Treize is...kinda like a bastardized follower of Nietzsche. He is driven by this desire to assert himself upon the world -- to shape the world in accordance with his will. Not so much because he wants the responsibility, or pleasure, or to become the recognized king of the universe, or anything so crass...more so because he just wants to know he can. Its like...its the challenge of taking over the world that matters, not so much the actual world itself.

When I say 'face' I mean someone who can reliably handle any NPC interaction. So someone who can 'read' the person across from them, and then play off whatever response is called for. Yeah, multiple characters can handle the NPC negotiations and stuff like that...but that can be difficult to do during PBP as there's no way to be sure who will be 'speaking for the party' as it were. I mean, sometimes the one without the relevant skills ends up posting first and gimping anything the person with the skill may have been able to do unless they back track the dialogue to a point where they can make the necessary check...

Also, it honestly doesn't cost me much of anything to be a face...I've got skill points to burn, tbh. I get 11/level including the favoured class one. Sorcs get 2 + INT...I suppose my point is this: if you'd rather grab something else (say a crafting skill, or whatever)and leave the diplo for a few levels , Treize can handle the diplomacy side of things.

I would posit that FN, one of my faves... was Lawful Neutral. Specifically 'Beyond Good and Evil'.

The 'will to power', is not Evil or Chaotic, but rather a constant.

Oh, I know that...hence bastardized version of Nietzsche. Evil people have used Nietzschian ideas to justify terrible things. Notably, Hitler was fond of Nietzsche, as have been many serial killers o'er the years.

Incidentally, I prefer The Gay Science. That's my favourite of his books.

Both Diplomacy and Intimidate are pretty much what Aku has been groomed for since before he can remember. Crafting doesn't fit him in any way shape or form nor would he be good at it. I'd rather make use of the high Charisma score. He has everything else covered anyway (Knowledge skills don't really fit a character who has almost no memory from before coming to the City)

Besides, with a +14 Diplomacy he can talk his way out of just about anything at this level.

When Shae eventually makes a +int helm he'll probably assign diplomacy as the first skill. he's not otherwise charismatic.

So the plan is to do terrible horrible malicious and sadistic things?

Anton will be keeping his Bluff maxed for other reasons but also has Diplomacy and may throw points in Intimidate later. May as well get some use of that high Charisma. Less emphasis on those related skills (e.g. Sense Motive) though. There's nothing saying that those of us with social skills can't aid one another in the conversation where were trying to sway someone.

Also most skill points in the early levels will probably be going into certain knowledges.

EDIT to add: For the record, Anton would be against doing "terrible horrible malicious and sadistic things".

Both Diplomacy and Intimidate are pretty much what Aku has been groomed for since before he can remember. Crafting doesn't fit him in any way shape or form nor would he be good at it. I'd rather make use of the high Charisma score. He has everything else covered anyway (Knowledge skills don't really fit a character who has almost no memory from before coming to the City)

Besides, with a +14 Diplomacy he can talk his way out of just about anything at this level.

I'm in a similar boat, tbh. I envision my character as a social manipulator. I have no useful knowledge skills to take (none of the big four are class skills for me; I could take knowledge local, I suppose, but nothing more is really gained from knowledge local then by diplomacizing a local for knowledge). I could take crafting, I suppose...but that would be for purely 'meta' reasons and work against the character as I conceive him.

So the plan is to do terrible horrible malicious and sadistic things?

I assume that was directed at me.

Nothing...obnoxiously cruel and sadistic. I.e. Treize won't run about stabbing people left right and center. Further, he's Lawful Evil: He prefers acting within the confines of the law. Not because Laws are just and the like...but because he doesn't need added concern of the law 'taking notice'.

So Treize will, say, plant evidence in one of our competing gangs that another of the competing gangs is planning to attack them thereby causing a gang war between them which we can use to our advantage.

If its the most efficient way to achieve the objective, Treize will do it; and if there's no chance that 'blame' can be placed on him from authority figures...well, let's just put it this way: outside our merry band, no life is above sacrifice to the manifestation of Treize's will. He might not run around stabbing innocent bystanders, but he won't bat an eye if he should learn that his actions caused the untimely deaths of people in the wrong place at the wrong time. He doesn't enjoy torturing others, or making them suffer, he just doesn't care if they should happen to end up tortured or suffering as a result of his actions.

EDIT: Though I feel I should remind all of you: we are a gang, you know. Its...rare...to hear of gangs doing good. Unless, of course, we're going to develop a giant Robin Hood complex in which case, I'm going to withdraw from this game now. The reason I applied to this game at all was that it seemed more 'neutrally' inspired and would allow my evil character to flourish, at least somewhat, without having to deal with 'traditionalists' objecting on the grounds that 'this is a fantasy game and we have a moral obligation to do good and only do good because that's what fantasy is about'.

A social butterfly effect. Got it.

FYI - guessing TM would generally feel collateral is messy.

Also, Tarek had been sick and away for a while. Recently back about a year ago. His monk training is not public knowledge. First rule of Fight Club, you don't talk about Fight Club.

He's known to you thru grandmother, but was never really active in the gang before his return. Low Cha, quieter, more reserved. But found observation skills and advice, solicited or otherwise.

Not feeling the love regards crafting and spell requirements.

EDIT: Though I feel I should remind all of you: we are a gang, you know. Its...rare...to hear of gangs doing good. Unless, of course, we're going to develop a giant Robin Hood complex in which case, I'm going to withdraw from this game now. The reason I applied to this game at all was that it seemed more 'neutrally' inspired and would allow my evil character to flourish, at least somewhat, without having to deal with 'traditionalists' objecting on the grounds that 'this is a fantasy game and we have a moral obligation to do good and only do good because that's what fantasy is about'.

I feel that this is directed at me as one of maybe two Good characters in the group and one who also happened to mention Anton's distaste for sadsism.

I personally have nothing against Evil characters. My point was that my character would want nothing to do with "horrible sadistic" acts.

On the advice/insistance of the GM, Anton just can't go down the Evil route. His being Good is pretty much all that is keeping him sane and able to fight off his inner Shoggoth. It has been said, in no uncertain terms, that should Anton stop being Good, he'll be working for the Dark Tapestry inside of two levels.

I don't expect Anton will be self-righteous about people doing bad things, we're all in it together to survive and all. He may frown a couple of times at it, but most of his efforts will be to keep himself from doing these bad things and keeping himself from enjoying the bad things others do.

Still working a few things out but, if you really need some vile destructive sadism, maybe there could be occasions where the inner monster rears it's ugly head. If it were to happen, though, it would probably only happen if Anton lost control somehow. And then there could be a world of trouble from those silly people who, for no apparent reason, really really dislike those loveable Old Ones/Elder Gods/etc.

Shaezon is not sadistic, but he is efficient. He won't kill someone for fun. However, if that's what needs to be done he won't hesitate.

Nah, think that was all me. You keep holding on to that shred of sanity. I was hoping to create a negative healing item, as those might be rare.

Evil is just a strong word, and elicits a visceral response in some. Unless the character has some inner need to commit 'evil' acts, desire, want, hunger, compulsion... Everything you describe can be either LN or CN. That being said, the characters don't have neon signs advertising their alignment. So RP will dictate what comes to pass.

I'm considering this like a coterie in V:tM. There are folks that come together for survival, financial gain, political dominance, etc... Just because we're not good, boy scouts, or Paladin doesn't mean we have to be the Bad Guys. That was my take.

Just offering an opinion.

Let's get messy. But, only as a last resort.

In any good crime/gang story things always get messy....always.

Alignment/ethics wise:
Einar considers the situation evil and what he has to do to keep himself and those he cares about safe as the "right" thing to do. He's good in that he feels compassion for the weak and oppressed and does not generally look to hurt people, but he has no problem with stealing, hurting bad people, and breaking the law to better himself and his friends.

All this Nietzsche talk makes me wonder what a Golarion-Nietzsche would write about. That being said, I've always enjoyed reading his (well, Earth-Nietzsche's) aphorisms.

Anywho, Nicator's also fairly quiet--generally happier in the background than in the lead. He prefers subtlety to force, and is generally more benevolent than not, but can accept the idea that some might have to come to harm (and certainly financial harm) for this group to prosper. He's not as efficient as Shaezon, but he'll do what needs to be done, whether it's covering an escape, aiding a theft, having an enemy take a nap, or patching folks up. Basically, in-group loyalty is what he's big on, and he'll act pragmatically for the group's benefit.

EDIT: Though I feel I should remind all of you: we are a gang, you know. Its...rare...to hear of gangs doing good. Unless, of course, we're going to develop a giant Robin Hood complex in which case, I'm going to withdraw from this game now. The reason I applied to this game at all was that it seemed more 'neutrally' inspired and would allow my evil character to flourish, at least somewhat, without having to deal with 'traditionalists' objecting on the grounds that 'this is a fantasy game and we have a moral obligation to do good and only do good because that's what fantasy is about'.

We're in a gang because everybody in the city is in a gang. There is no a real government running things, so the city has broken up into little urban fiefdoms controlled by gangs. There is no rule of law and there are no real authority figures, so we can pretty much do whatever we want to do. I imagine more conflicts will be with competing gangs than anything else.

Also, good and evil are dependant on perspective. Very few people ever think that they are evil.

Anyways, what would be most useful is to try to maybe make some sort of gang charter to set some sort of framework as to what the obligations are to the gang members and what is acceptable behaviour.

From what Harakani's said before, that might be something that develops as we play, rather than something we start out with.I figure that, right now, we just follow the informal rules that boil down to "help each other out" and (to a lesser extent, perhaps) "listen to Grandmother." As time goes on, a system of formal rules of conduct could be quite interesting to RP writing out, perhaps after our first adventure, as it were.

The Unseen Hand: A Guide to being a Good Grandchild
Rule the Zero: Per the general guideline of the great Wilansathalus Wheatonfric, do not engage in dickishness of any sort.
Rule the First: Do not harm your fellow Grandchildren
Rule the First, Subsection A, Clause the First: Harm is defined as intentionally bringing physical, emotional, or mental hurt to another Grandchild, without the possibility of some net benefit
Rule the First, Subsection A, Clause the Second: Net benefit in this case includes such actions as medical treatment (mundane or magical), saving another (i.e. cutting off a limb to save the Grandchild from being trapped), and intentional slaying to prevent possession by the old Ones (This means You, Anton).
Rule the First, Subsection A, Clause the Third: In borderline Cases, the benefit shall be determined by the Helpers of the Grandmother, the Authors of this Document.
Rule the First, Subsection B, Clause the First: Fellow Grandchildren are defined as those who follow the Way of the Grandmother.
Rule the First, Subsection B, Clause the Second: This is the Complete Record of the Way of the Grandmother. If you bind yourself to these rules, you are a follower of the Way of the Grandmother.

I don't think a gang of youths, like ours, would come up with a veryvery complex system of rules. It would be something very simple, like:
Rule 1: Never rat or backstab another member.
Rule 2: Always back a member against anyone else.
Rule 3: If you break rules 1 or 2, you are out and maybe dead.

My ethical concerns were not directed to anyone in particular, Anton. It just seemed like clarification was necessary as we've danced around some ethical stuff before in this thread (the not dealing with children a long time ago) and then it seemed like two people within a short span seemed to be getting the idea that Treize was sadistic and the 'tone' seemed to be that this was going to be a problem...well, I just thought Treize's ethical stance should be clarified as I believe I'm the only Evil character in the group and...well...I was sensing a lot of potential tension on the horizon.

Also, on Nietzsche...he'd probably write about much the same things. The death of God is metaphorical and not necessarily literal. His point is that relying on Gods and religion as a foundation for morality is resulting in a kind of nihilism -- it makes ethics meaningless. Actual Gods who exist would have little effect on the substance of Nietzsche's claims. Morality still remains an ungrounded fiction, its just now instead of the slaves being the one's limiting the power of the ubermensch, it is the Gods. That doesn't make religion any more 'true' as a foundation for moral knowledge. If anything, these Gods who commit themselves to ethics would merely serve as examples of slaves. Heh...I wonder, could there be an ubergott in such a world?

Shoe shine?

Yes..?

*Presents shoe for shining*

Lol...I just had a flashback to a leather bar I went to a few years ago and their giant ass pimp chair where the designated boot black of the night would polish shoes/boots all night long...

I miss Toronto XP

Takes your shoed foot and places it onto the shoe shine kit. Selects a cloth and starts to remove the dirt...

See, I was thinking we find someplace with some foot traffic, a market or square... and open a shoe shine business (within or on the border of our territory).

We offer shoe shines, maybe coffee and refreshments as you wait and anything else that makes sense. We can repair the shoes, too. Important people like their shoes shines, their items cared for.

As they sit and wait their turn or as the boot black works, they talk... we listen, learn, gather intel. As time goes on, we (our employees) become invisible. Fade into the background.

For instance: You just told me you 1) go to or frequent leather bars 2) had been in Toronto 3) like to be spoiled/comfortable 4) enjoy being waited upon 5) have a slight sadistic streak

Lol...and how do you know I wasn't there in admiration of the boot black? That would undermine 3, 4, and 5.

Also, having been to a leather bar does not entail frequenting leather bars which undermines 1.

So really, all you know is that I've been to Toronto, been to a leather bar, and seen a boot black and boot blacking chair in a leather bar.

As for you presently shining my boots...well, I appreciate it, but you offered and so you can't conclude sadism from that ^^

You're right.

But, it's like mining for gold... prospecting. Eventually, information will be corroborated and verified from multiple independent sources.

Aggregate that (time, multiple strategic locations), you start to have the pulse of "The City".

What could we do with all that intel... without killing anyone? If it makes you happy... yes, younger kids could be shining shoes. Paying their dues.

Oh... sadistic doesn't have to do with me, with the way you recalled the night and conveyed the plight of the boot black.

"where the designated boot black of the night would polish shoes/boots all night long..."

Oh, don't get me wrong. I happen to agree with you, its a fine idea. I'm just poking fun at your conclusions about me from a passing comment about a leather bar in Toronto...

Why does that sound like a setup to a series of bad jokes?

'A priest and an alter boy walk into a leather bar in Toronto...'

~Snickers~ I'm going to Hell...though its not like I didn't know that already XP

Its a plight in the same way the submissive partner whose tied to the bed is in a state of plight: they enjoy being in the submissive role, as it were -- they enjoy being tied up and so it isn't really a plight for them. The boot blacks enjoy boot blacking as much as the Doms enjoy getting their boots blacked...it looks like one, but isn't really one. 'tis all a matter of perspective.

Well, I'm in NY... so I thought of the meat packing district.

Have to be honest here. Most of my knowledge of gangs comes from Freakonomics and Gang Leader for a Day

My understanding is that emplaced gangs, especially larger ones, tend to act almost like small nation-states. They can actually help their community, but usually this is for the good PR so that when things go wrong they have some respect and the nearby populace won't turn on them.

So some of you might help the people who live around you because you are genuinely nice, and Treize might actually help out so they'll owe him.

Gangs that are particularly psychotic or sadistic tend to have trouble with a populace that can either revolt or leave.

There are other gangs that operate at higher levels - arguably this includes the council - and guilds, which could be seen as gangs with conceptual rather than concrete territory. At this point you have a grass-roots on-the-ground concrete-territory emplaced gang.

That okay?

I don't think a gang of youths, like ours, would come up with a veryvery complex system of rules. It would be something very simple, like:

Rule 1: Never rat or backstab another member.
Rule 2: Always back a member against anyone else.
Rule 3: If you break rules 1 or 2, you are out and maybe dead.

Hell yeah, but remember you want to make sure your gang has respect.

If people think you can be pushed around by the whole world might turn against you!