I'm also thinking about the fact that average initiative means that one really high initiative character -- or one that always wins initiative as a special ability -- on either side is a big game changer.
How do people feel about Jimbli's suggestion -- that would mean your post order would effect your combat order.
Sounds fine to me.
However here's what i am used to, what is quite similar:
-GM rolls initiative for everyone. A lot faster, since it can just be kept prepared somewhere and then copied.
-Then things go down in initiative order.
-But: i also know the everyone posts their action intentions - out of initiative - and it gets sorted out or retconned and then summarized in a turn review, kind of.
I think that's favorable in PbP, since everyone has different times and things can go faster that way.
What might help is having foes go in initiative groups instead of having them go individually. A lot of GMs do that and i do it myself from time to time. After the first turn it's players foes players foes anyway.
GM, this game really rocks so far i think.
Should you have upcoming time issues, lowering "the standard" here a bit certainly is no issue at all.
Instead of doing an answer for everyone, just do one post where everything gets handled. Might not be as deep, but still good.
I have to take a look at the action economy system again, it's my first time.
Okay -- that's an interesting suggestion too -- the only issue is I then have to look up everyone's initiative modifiers myself.
There's a pdf in the campaign info page that summarizes the new action economy in an easy to use diagram -- let me know if you have trouble finding it.
I looked up some alternative ideas and here's my suggestion --
Initiative is tied to specific actions every round: everyone has to declare at the outset what they're doing/who they're targeting.
THEN you roll initiative against your opponent. So, you have to declare whether you're attacking one of the monsters/and you then do an opposed roll against however many targets to see who goes first in this order of action.
This would get around the issue of waiting for other people (who skip their turn if they don't post) while still preserving the ability to go first or second in the combat round vis a vis the monsters.
Also, if a player needs to figure out if they go first or second to another player, their rolls are similarly compared.
Found it thanks.
That kind of goes into the other direction as what i suggested.
The approach there is that a timeframe for a turn is eventually found, 1 day, 1/2 day,or 2 days in some groups. When the group came a bit closer, tactics are also more clear or can be cooperated.
It seems to me rolling initiative against single monsters is even more work to do, since you need to compare and roll a lot more yourself?
Aye, the GM should roll initiative or things slow down a lot. That's what I was saying regarding copy/paste for player initiatives.
The three groups method works well, too.
If I'm rolling initiative for everyone, everyone needs to look at their profiles and make sure their initiative modifier is clearly visible from the gameplay page -- we can't do this if I have to go searching around your character sheet to try to find your modifiers.
I'm still not really clear what's being proposed otherwise.
I think a summary after everyone posts their actions is a good idea.
Just a quick check -- this isn't the case that everyone has their initiative info clearly visible for me, we need to take a second to update profiles to correct that if we're going to have me roll initiative.
Put something like this in the campaign tab(w/o the space in [/ dice]):
[dice=Initiative:Amunet-Ra]1d20+11[/ dice]
[dice=Initiative:Cae]1d20+3[/ dice]
[dice=Initiative:Hamza]1d20+15[/ dice]
[dice=Initiative:Jimbli]1d20+8[/ dice]
[dice=Initiative:Kuro]1d20+4[/ dice]
[dice=Initiative:Malkaer]1d20+6[/ dice]
[dice=Initiative:Rokan]1d20+5[/ dice]
Then you can just copy/paste.
Are those the correct values in that template, or is that just an example?
They are correct as far as I can tell. I looked at everyone's character sheets.
My major concern is to have everyone post there actions upfront as we seem to be doing right now, so then I can just look at all the posts and summarize after 24-36 hrs,, instead of waiting days for someone to post their turn and holding everyone else up.
I think we can just stick with normal initiative rules for characters in that case -- I'll roll for everyone and the monsters as part of my summary/adjudicating post after everyone declares actions.
A couple of additional tweaks I want to add -- Armor as Damage Reduction
Your armor also has a Vigor reserve equal to 5x it's AC bonus that gets targeted before you get personally damaged.
On any successful attack against you, you can forfeit a 1AP action to make a Dex check to dodge, or an attack roll to parry with your own weapon. You can have to give up one of your declared actions to do so, and can give up 3AP worth if you want to.
My problem is I have the Mythic Improved Initiative feat, which does the following:
Benefit: The bonus on initiative checks granted by Improved Initiative increases by an amount equal to your tier. This bonus stacks with the bonus from Improved Initiative. In addition, instead of rolling initiative, you can expend one use of mythic power to treat your roll as a natural 20.
Now, I can easily swap this feat for a different mythic one, however, since I'm using Path of Wat material, most of my feats lack a mythic version.
I also rather like the ability to occasionally auto get a natural 20 on my initiative, practically guaranteeing I go first.
Well, you did ask people not to post actions yet.
That keeps the same issues with positioning and such. The three group system looks like this:
1. GM rolls initiative.
2. Players with higher initiative than NPCS have 24 hours to post actions.
3. GM posts a summary with player and NPC actions.
4. All players can post actions since higher initiative players are on the clock again at the end of round.
5. Repeat steps 3 & 4.
Does that help?
Well, you did ask people not to post actions yet.
That keeps the same issues with positioning and such. The three group system looks like this:
1. GM rolls initiative.
2. Players with higher initiative than NPCS have 24 hours to post actions.
3. GM posts a summary with player and NPC actions.
4. All players can post actions since higher initiative players are on the clock again at the end of round.
5. Repeat steps 3 & 4.
Does that help?
I'm not sure what the 'Well, you did ask people not to post actions yet.' refers to.
That keeps the same issues with positioning and such. The three group system looks like this:
That's an issue if everyone posts up front? I'm a little confused on the distinction.
My problem is I have the Mythic Improved Initiative feat, which does the following:
Benefit: The bonus on initiative checks granted by Improved Initiative increases by an amount equal to your tier. This bonus stacks with the bonus from Improved Initiative. In addition, instead of rolling initiative, you can expend one use of mythic power to treat your roll as a natural 20.
Now, I can easily swap this feat for a different mythic one, however, since I'm using Path of Wat material, most of my feats lack a mythic version.
I also rather like the ability to occasionally auto get a natural 20 on my initiative, practically guaranteeing I go first.
I think we decided to go with the standard system where we roll initiative, is there still some issue you're concerned with?
Well, you did ask people not to post actions yet.I'm not sure what the 'Well, you did ask people not to post actions yet.' refers to.
Yes -- I do want to figure out what we're going before everyone starts posting a lot of stuff -- your reply made it sound like there was some follow up reply from me that overturned or contradicted that -- unless I'm misreading your comment?
That keeps the same issues with positioning and such.That's an issue if everyone posts up front? I'm a little confused on the distinction.
If players with lower initiative than NPCs are posting actions before NPCs have moved and taken their(NPC) actions, some of the player actions will be invalid or need to be retconned. It increases the chaos and workload for you.
I'm onboard for however you want to do it, I'm just relaying past experiences to help you decide.
Yes -- I do want to figure out what we're going before everyone starts posting a lot of stuff -- your reply made it sound like there was some follow up reply from me that overturned or contradicted that -- unless I'm misreading your comment?
You did not contradict that at all. Sorry, I was being a smartass and pointing out that people were posting anyway. My bad.
People already posted, so it's fine, I was just hoping to avoid having to retcon everything before we figure out exactly what we're doing.
I think I see the issue with positioning more -- Let's try the before and after the enemies approach for this combat and see how it goes.
Does anyone have issues with the damage reduction/armor hit points/option to parry rules I outlined above?
How are the armor vigor points replenished, if they are?
It would seem my post about my concern regarding how we handle initiative was missed...
My problem is I have the Mythic Improved Initiative feat, which does the following:
Benefit: The bonus on initiative checks granted by Improved Initiative increases by an amount equal to your tier. This bonus stacks with the bonus from Improved Initiative. In addition, instead of rolling initiative, you can expend one use of mythic power to treat your roll as a natural 20.
Now, I can easily swap this feat for a different mythic one, however, since I'm using Path of Wat material, most of my feats lack a mythic version.
I also rather like the ability to occasionally auto get a natural 20 on my initiative, practically guaranteeing I go first.
I think we decided to go with the standard system where we roll initiative, is there still some issue you're concerned with?
It would seem my post about my concern regarding how we handle initiative was missed...
I answered above that I thought we had decided to go with something like the regular initiative system, so that there are 'before' and 'after' unlike phased combat -- I asked if that addressed your concern, or there was something I was missing.
How are the armor vigor points replenished, if they are?
It would require Crafting. You can repair it after combat, but that also leaves open the possibility your armor crumbles in the course of combat.
That would give me an extra pool of vigor to throw harder monsters at you, but also introduces the a new little subgame where we see if your armor holds out or not, which I think could add something to combat.
so do we post or not? i saw people post ans am unsure if i should.
Probably my fault. I simply checked and caught-up on gameplay before seeing all of this.
It's certainly gritty, but wouldn't that negate armor providing DR? Unless DR is applied first? Isn't it also wildly lop-sided against players? It takes longer to kill NPCs which means taking more hits, and then being weaker for subsequent fights?
As for armor as DR, I don't have the experience with it to offer an opinion.
It's certainly gritty, but wouldn't that negate armor providing DR? Unless DR is applied first? Isn't it also wildly lop-sided against players? It takes longer to kill NPCs which means taking more hits, and then being weaker for subsequent fights?
As for armor as DR, I don't have the experience with it to offer an opinion.
I'm not sure what you mean -- the idea is that the armor reduces damage of attacks that would otherwise go to your bodily vigor first (the vigor of your armor (if you're wearing any) is an extra pool of vigor that reduces damage, even if it gets through your defense). Explain more if I'm not getting what your critique is.
An example as I understand it:
Leather armor gives +2 AC. Add +1 for ABP. That would be 15 armor vigor points. With W&V, you have Defense 11+Dex & DR 3/magic or Large. Once you take 15 damage, you're out 1 Defense and the DR meaning that you are more vulnerable.
On top of that, if one assumes that NPCs have similar AVP, they will take longer to kill which means more hits taken by players which leads to more broken armor. And then the next combat starts...
Am I understanding correctly?
Yes, that's what I imagine. However, you have an opportunity to exchange actions to dodge or parry. So if you were concerned about your armor, you could give up an attack to try to get around the damage to your armor.
Sorry, missed your response to me. Been a long, yet awesome, weekend, and my brain is kinda fried lol
Giving up offense for defense is a sucker's game, from what I hear.
Personally, it's beneficial for me because my armor is the mythic force armor that I can bring back up.
With ABP, our armor is considered to be magical, correct?
Sorry, missed your response to me. Been a long, yet awesome, weekend, and my brain is kinda fried lol
Haha, how was the con?
Wow those beasts are really tough, they kind of can't miss i guess.
Do you always post the stats like that? Might be convenient to put them into a
Curious on how that fight will go down^^
My thinking is that I put a lot of time into making stats for critters, and you can't appreciate their awesomeness if you don't even ever see their stats, so I just post them.
I also think it helps deciding what you're doing in combat, since you know what you're facing and what their names are.
They are tough, but there's more going on here -- this isn't an ordinary fight, you'll see that in a second....
Ah i didn't know you make them yourself!
What about knowledge skills then though? Do they have any other applications there perhaps?
Curious what will come there^^
I'm assuming you're dividing character from player knowledge -- I mentioned that last time we had a combat before you joined.
So the idea is that as a player you can appreciate the critters' stats and read some interesting fluff about them, but also your character doesn't know all that information -- you'd still have to make a knowledge check for that.
Regardless of how tough they are, Malkaer is going to stab them.
And I'll keep IC and OOC knowledge separate. As in, even if I know that something is immune to electricity, it doesn't mean that he knows...
I'm going to be honest, I didn't create a build that can keep up with the kind of damage that Archer is doing. We'll see what he can do when he gets in a full-round attack with unarmed soon, but I still don't think it'll be anything like that.
He doesn’t have a bow, he has a machine gun!
Frankly, i thought combat was over.
Don't really understand what Archer is doing there either though.
He's a soulknife, but given all of this damage I assume he's got the soulbolt archetype? And combined with some benefits from ranger?
Rapid Shot, Mythic Rapid Shot, & spending mythic power for an extra attack = 5 attacks.
Unless I missed something, Celabadon is not dead. It survived the initial attacks against it, hence why it was able to unleash it's sonic lance attack vs Malkaer.
After Seb's post with that attack, nobody else attacked Celabadon till Archer did, so, combat should still be active.
Celabadon is indeed not dead, and will attack again next round if he has the opportunity.
Just a note everyone -- Malkaer died and his player decided to roll a new character rather than take my offer of an avenue for resuscitating him, so we'll have a new dwarf character from Malkaer's player sometime this week.
We also have a kreen joining us shortly.
Yup! Working on how the dwarf will fit in. Have a few fun ideas. Due to traveling the character won’t be ready till next week.
We have a kreen joining who's waking up in a cryochamber in the main tunnel of the dungeon -- your new character should probably join at the same time.
Interesting. I wonder how often this will occur given how lethal this campaign is proving to be :)