Kingmakers of the Everflame (Inactive)

Game Master McBugman

Bodger My guard dog and My Goat familiar William, will both generally be mixed in with the other goats and sheep. They will be noncombatants unless something goes after the flock...

The wagon and it's contents are pretty much shared for the whole party. Feel free to tie the goats up, tie up the donkey, ride along, store supplies or whatever. I will also probably need folks to share the driving duties occasionally.

The contents so far are:

combat trained heavy horse, bit and bridle, saddle bags, riding saddle, training harness, animal feed (7 days), medium wagon, barrel of water, large tent, bedroll, blanket, hemp rope 100', grappling hook, hooded lantern, 10 pounds of lamp oil, cooking kit, gear maintenance kit, chickens x4, chicken cages x4, chicken feed (28 days), sheep x2, guard dog, heavy crossbow, crossbow bolts x20

Incoming, sorry for the delay folks.

3d6 ⇒ (1, 1, 4) = 6

...woo...

Average gold it is!

No worries, it's a tough decision and a long process to create the right character. Better to take your time and be happy with the result.

Happiness is a fun character, no worries man!

I'm expecting things to move forward late tonight or tomorrow morning CST.

@Wendell:

An animal companion does not need handle animal checks on a regular basis I think. They will obey you almost always except in extreme circumstances (strange combats, sickness, magical manipulation, etc...) Handle animal is mostly for domesticated or trained animals as far as I know. Animal companions are basically linked to you magically as I understand and obey you intrinsically much like familiars, but less dramatically. I could be wrong here of course.

@Aleksara:

I agree that it is a bit redundant to make Handle Animal checks for small things when I have a guarantee of success. I've primarily been doing it as a way to show Chett's interest and attitude towards my command. It may be the difference between him giving me a growl, versus immediately befriending someone (as happened to you).

I'll have to work out the mechanics and kinks as we go. I just want him to be more than a robot who follows my commands without hesitation, but may have not found the right method yet.

I just want him to be more than a robot who follows my commands without hesitation, but may have not found the right method yet.

Feel free to post as Chett in the gameplay! He's a full fledged character in my opinion and showing his internal musings could be fun.

Wendell Redgrass wrote:

I just want him to be more than a robot who follows my commands without hesitation, but may have not found the right method yet.

Feel free to post as Chett in the gameplay! He's a full fledged character in my opinion and showing his internal musings could be fun.

Cool! Works for me however you want to do it, I just wanted to be sure Wendell knew it was not needed every time.

In order to save time and role-playing space, let's hash out positions so we can get to it. We are probably over-thinking this trap since we're 1st level characters and all, but I like to cover my bases, so to speak.

OK! First placement pass:

Gates: Wendell and Arim in hiding (We need strength checks to close the doors).

Stable Door: Jerrick hiding inside? (This way he's completely out of sight, but can step out on a moment's notice as needed and can protect the animals as needed.)

Near Oleg and the fake loot: Aleksara hiding in plain sight to help defend Oleg and prepared to move in the situation as needed.

Chett behind the guest house, ready to spring out as needed and guard the gate closers.

??" Al? I'm not sure where the gnome would prefer to be? The wall?
just inside the main house?

That's my first go at it. Make suggestions if needed!

@ Aleksara: I was also thinking that Wendell could hide behind one of the doors, as I can stealth to keep hidden behind them and then (hopefully) pass the strength check to shut it.

That's a good idea for Chett, too. And if any of the banditos make a move for the stables, I'll send the big cat in after.

Once the doors are closed, Arim can charge in and do his thing, and I will be sure to remain positioned between the enemies and the door to keep them from opening it again.

I don't know that we will even need to bother with the lock. If anyone is to do it, I'll be the one so Arim can get into the fight. But with my reach weapon I may be able to threaten the squares leading to the doors and keep anyone from escaping. I'd like to hear thoughts or suggestions on that matter, and I'm okay with either.

Why don't we have both doors closed and locked when they show. Then after their leader makes a threat or two Oleg opens one of the doors and let's them in.... Alfentinius will be standing out in the open with the loaded caravan and Aleksara. Alfentinius will make some empty threats at Oleg pretending to be angry at Oleg for opening the doors. After the bandits come in to figure out what is going on we strike at their leader. I think it's more important to get first round attacks off then it is to try and get the doors closed. We'll have Wendell hidden by the door . He can delay his action and if the others manage to take down their archer he can close the door. If our fighters manage to miss all their attacks he can attack their leader as well.

Chet, Jerik, and Arim just need to be out of sight yet able to spring into the fight quickly.

That could work well.

The ruse could be that you are a trader and Oleg is double-crossing you to pay off the bandits. You curse and holler at him, which draws them in believing they've happened on a big score. Also gives us reason to open a single door.

The trick will be finding a place for me to hide. We could set up some cover, or I could hide above the door and drop down once they're inside (since it opens to the outside I won't be able to hide behind it). Heck, I'd even be up for trying Jerrik's idea of digging a ditch and hiding outside the fort until they're in.

Just need to make sure we are ready to spring the trap and attack quick, whether or not we get a surprise round.

Question about charging: can you round a corner as part of a charge, or would that be two actions? For example, if you're hiding on the back side of a wall can you make the turn and charge at once?

For the record, I like that we're planning this extensively.

I thought we agreed the idea was to draw them in and NOT put them on their guard. Shutting them in before we attack almost guarantees nobody escapes to tell the other bandits we are here. We want to delay that as long as possible.

If Al wants to stand in the open, that's fine, I'm assuming he has a good enough charisma to bluff decently for it. But if we attack prematurely then all they have to do is turn their horses around and gallop out before we can stop them. (And don't forget the Overrun maneuver! It hurts.)

Remember the bigger picture: If we take out/convert all of the bandits that arrive, the others have no idea what is going to happen next and WE have the advantage. If someone gets away, their leader (who sounds competent)will likely come back here to retaliate against Oleg whether we are here or not to help and THEY have the advantage because they are forcing us to react rather the opposite.

Also don't forget, this place is one big stick of firewood. Walls only help if they can remain standing. All they have to do is surround the place and lob fire arrows at the fort until we all fry.

@ Wendell: You can charge around a corner, you just have to go in a straight line for the last 10 or 15 feet I think.

Charge is a full round action and no, you cannot charge around corners.

"You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). You must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can't charge. If any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can't charge. Helpless creatures don't stop a charge."

Yeah...I might be remembering something from 3.0 or 3.5 and not Pathfinder then.

Sorry...some old rules are often floating around in my head and get jumbled with the new ones.

Looked it up too. You must have LINE OF SIGHT to an opponent and nothing that could block your movement. So you can turn on a charge as long as you: Can see the target; end up next to your target at the end of you movement; and nothing slows you down.

Uh, no. You can't turn during a charge.

Ok, so I didn't see the "directly toward your opponent" statement.
Fair enough.

So using 100 words or so they basically are saying you can't turn, without actually saying "you can't turn."

I believe you can 5 foot step as a free action before a charge though.

Not normally, no.

"You can move 5 feet in any round when you don't perform any other kind of movement. Taking this 5-foot step never provokes an attack of opportunity. You can't take more than one 5-foot step in a round, and you can't take a 5-foot step in the same round that you move any distance."

Jerrick is Correct. It actually specifically states that you cannot charge AND take a 5 foot step in the same round.

If you only have a standard action to use in a around, for some odd reason (spell cast on you, or similar adverse affect), you can still do a "Partial Charge" with only a single movement increment.

Of course, there are plenty of feats (and I thinks a trait too) that allows you to ignore some or most of the charging 'no-no' rules...

BACK TO THE GAME: We need a consensus soon for the GM:

Need answers to Questions:
1. Gates Open or Closed to start? (I vote open)
2. Attack before or after the gates close? (I vote after)

Starting Locations:
Gates: Wendell and Arim in hiding to close doors.

Stable Door: Jerrick hiding inside? (Yeah or nay? Somewhere else?)

Near Oleg and the fake loot: Al and Aleksara hiding in plain sight to help defend Oleg and confront the invaders.

Chett behind the guest house, ready to spring out as needed and guard the gate closers.

Thoughts or decisions?

I'll be happy enough to go with the consensus on anything.

I've started the fort's layout based on Aleksara's post, mostly covered up the wagon and "opened," heh, the door. Feel free to edit as you see fit, this is just intended to get things started.

Can we add some Loot crates to the map? They are important for this trap and could be both helpful (to us) or hindrance (to them) as far as obstacles, terrain, and possible cover.

Sure!

Stable is good with me.

Gates open? Sure.

Before or after? After seems to be what your plan calls for.

Open is fine.

After they're all closed.

@ GM: If Arim and I initiate the encounter by shutting the doors, can we avoid using those as actions? My thought being that combat wouldn't be triggered until the doors close.

Wendell will be hiding behind the door until they are inside.

Happy with the plan as it's happened. Let's roll!

That's a really nice spell (the coin one) for effect and to (love a spinning coin!) But it's costly at this level.

Best 11gp I ever spent!
=)

Are the coins like arrows, where you've got a chance to recover them? I was wondering that as you fired them off.

Nope. Destroyed regardless of hit or miss.

Here's the loot list so far:

2 alchemist’s fire
4 leather armor
Dagger
Composite longbow (+2 Str)
3 standard longbows
80 arrows
8 days of trail rations
3 short swords
Silver stag head amulet
65 gp
50 gp
Two potions of cure light wounds
One potion of shield of faith +2
7 horses

Wendell will take the Composite Longbow (+2), 20 arrows and one horse.

I think we would do well to make Oleg's Trading Post our base camp.

Depending on the excursion or mission, we can bring extra gear and animals for specific outings. That way we can keep a majority of the loot we find, but don't have to lug it all around with us everywhere we go.

This is not a campaign where I want to be unprepared, but over-prepared could be dangerous as well.

Random thought: I would love to find someone who could watch the animals in case we ever have to leave them behind (entering a cave, dungeon, etc.).

Alfentinius cares surprisingly little about loot. As long as he has food he'll show little interest in how it gets divided up. If asked he'll cast detect magic and will take any potions offered to him.

P.s. Iv'e really enjoyed watching what people use as nicknames for Alfentinius. I think Iv'e seen Al, Alf, Alfen, and Alfent. Curious to see what you all land on.

Wendell is also not very concerned with material goods. While he does understand their value, he only desires things that will directly assist him in his journey. Beyond that, he prefers to be charitable or unburdened by worldly goods.

Aleksara will take what she can get, but more than willing to be fair. Living so long with so little has left her feeling a bit overwhelmed at how much 'stuff' matters now.

She's take (if it is OK)

1 alchemist’s fire
Dagger
Silver stag head amulet (For Disguise purposes!)
23 gp (in various denominations for her spell)
One potion of cure light wounds
1 horse

Look OK?

I think Al should have the Potion of Shield of Faith and the other healing potion for now.

The rest should be stored for later need/use. Absolutely.

@GM: How much to buy a quiver of javelins from Oleg (say 3 or 4 javelins)? Normal price?

Yes full price of 1gp each. Oleg has 5 in stock.

We need to set up a list of supplies we need to request from the swordlords to be deliverd for improvement on Oleg's place.

My list.

1. Smithing supplies. (@Minimum this should be: small Anvil, small bellows, decent charcoal, and some basic smithing supplies like pig-iron at least for crafting arrows/bolts, and catapult shot. Some heavy Bricks to set up a basic Forge, and similar supplies)

2. Fort Guards. (Preferably skilled with catapults or ranged attacks, and already armed and armored. Experience negotiable.)

3. Semi-Skilled workers and apprentices (basic hunters, shepherds, carpenters, and stone masons preferred)

4. Scroll(s) with multiple copies of the Alarm Spell- Or - A "Stone of Alarm." I think it is a fairly inexpensive magic item.

5. Parts and any special ammot for the Catapults we can get. (Alchemist's Fire Shot, or similar.)

You guys?

I'm struggling with a lot of this.

1. Jerrik has no interest in treasure for the most part. He'd prefer to craft his own armor some day. He might claim a fine weapon, but most other stuff he'd insist that others take.

2. I don't really agree with taking over Oleg's. We'd be making it and his family a target, more so than we have already. This is supposed to be about exploring and setting up a kingdom. I feel like Oleg's is just a place to buy supplies, not the center of our fortress. I don't think we need a base of operations. I'd prefer to be more mobile.

3. I'm not really down with executing the prisoners. I know we technically have the right, but I still don't want to pull the trigger. I think I picked a bad time to try to be a paladin.

I'm struggling with a lot of this.

Warning: Wall of Text Here:

Oleg is already a target now since we stopped the bandits. They will figure what happened out eventually. The question is what do we do about it until then?

If we don't stick around, he really won't stand a chance unless the Swordlords manage to send him more help sooner. The Swordlords won't really want to invest more effort here unless the region becomes more pacified and stable. So that's us. We here to 'pacify' the region. Whatever that takes.

Right now Oleg's is a good safe place to stay (for free), until we remove the threat of the bandits and other hazards (dangerous monsters?) and only then will other people be able to settle here safely (or even want to).

Oleg's is the start of a possible community, and we are here to establish ourselves by legal writ, muscle, and friendship. The only way we can really do that is by working with everyone who wants that too. We can't just 'do it alone.' Nor can Oleg obviously.

There will be times when common people get hurt, and it may be through actions of ours that cause it somehow (I can't see the future) but we can try to mitigate them as much as possible. But my guess is that is part of the challenge of the Kingmaker game. Not to build a castle really, but to build a community and defend it successfully from all threats, internal or external.

Being a Paladin, just remember, means doing what is right, acts of goodess/kindness, and lawfulness generally. These things are not always black and white however, whether we like it or not.

I can understand if you character feels the way you describe however.
Truthfully it sounds like your character would make a great king.
=)
He has the right attitude for it.

Some suggestions too:

1. Any extra money you earn you can give to Oleg as 'credit' in advance for future supplies you may ask for. I'm sure you/we will need them. Until you use the funds, Oleg can then use the money (without paying interest) to upgrade and hire more help as he needs.

2. Once the smithy is set up, we can both work on fashioning your armor. (I'm just a weapon smith, but I can do aid another checks to help you and loan you the use of my MW tools possibly?)

3. Aleksara is more than happy to take care of the bandit. "Outside" and out of view, but note we DO have the legal right (and need) to execute active bandits. We can have a trial if you want. Oleg and his wife can be the judge and jury. Al can provide defense. I'll prosecute. Or we can also try to send him back to the Swordlords for judgement, but that may take time we do not have. We do not have a brig or jail yet. Do we even have manacles?

4. Bandits can pick up and move quickly. A wagon is an easy target and almost impossible to hide. Once the bandits are dealt with, we can leave Oleg to his own endeavors and just use him as a resource. But for now, his outpost is the best place for us and technically he probably wants us here. Go ahead and ask. I'll bet my left ear Oleg will almost beg us to stay and help him improve the fort and deal with the bandits. He was already a target before we got here, now we can at least help defend the place if they come back at all, just like this last time.

Sorry I sort of shotgunned my responses. Does this help at all Jerrik?

I'm struggling with a lot of this.

2. I don't really agree with taking over Oleg's. We'd be making it and his family a target, more so than we have already. This is supposed to be about exploring and setting up a kingdom. I feel like Oleg's is just a place to buy supplies, not the center of our fortress. I don't think we need a base of operations. I'd prefer to be more mobile.

I agree that Oleg's Trading post is Oleg's. If he chooses to use the money he makes from our buying and selling goods with him to upgrade his trading post, that's up to him. However I would like to ask him if for our first several patrols we could leave some of our supplies there with him. Personally I'm looking forward to the kingdom building aspect of things... and choosing our real base of operations.

3. I'm not really down with executing the prisoners. I know we technically have the right, but I still don't want to pull the trigger. I think I picked a bad time to try to be a paladin.

If you were happy about it then something would be very wrong. There's no question that Jerrik will be the conscience of our party and I look forward to seeing that played out in game. Especially considering Aleksara'a background.

Wrote this literally a second before Aleksara posted.

Yeah, at the onset I noticed there were some more aggressive characters and some more pacifist characters. Let me try to answer and shed light on some of your points above.

1. Crafting is awesome for this campaign, don't let the beginning and my word choices scare you off of it. There are several parts of this AP where one or more years pass at a time so that the nation building events can occur. So, much crafting can be done in that time as well. For the gear gathered during the adventuring pieces of the AP, selling it so you can afford your exploration is a good option. Otherwise leaving it for some unlucky soul is fine. Just a thought, your paladin travels with a wagon and leans towards peacekeeping rather than enforcing justice, perhaps he would handout the gear as donations along his travels?

2. About Oleg's, this seems to be directed more towards the party. I prepared a snippet for when you started heading out to explore after this intro-encounter was finished though.

3. Saw this coming with the different personalities in the group's characters. I'm cool with running a game in any fashion, I mean that whole heartedly. It'll jsut need to work for everyone. At the moment (aka as written) it's a harsh Pathfinder world out there and these are rapists and murderers, real cutthroats, not average guys who went under on their mortgage. But, seeing the diplomatic side of some characters, I plan on making NPCs here and there reasonable people as well. As a paladin, a stance against capital punishment makes sense to me. Geraldo is no longer hostile so you can let him go if you choose. Mainly I'm curious, if you detect Evil will Jerrik engage in combat or will he try to find a diplomatic way out every time?

Thanks guys. All of this helped.

If Jerrik detected evil, it would make him cautious and untrusting of the source, but he wouldn't blindly convict by it. It would be one more piece of evidence.

Jerrik will insist on executing the bandit. As you said, we have the legal right and he would want the blood on his hands as opposed to others.

Jerrik will take a regular longbow, 20 arrows, and a shortsword. He'll throw the 8 days of trail rations into the wagon. Alf should take the remaining alchemist fire and Arim the cure light wounds potion. Aleksara or Wendell should take the shield of faith potion.

2 alchemist’s fire
1 alchemist's fire
4 leather armor
Dagger
Composite longbow (+2 Str)
3 standard longbows
2 standard longbows
80 arrows
60 arrows
40 arrows
8 days of trail rations
3 short swords
2 short swords
Silver stag head amulet
65 gp
50 gp
27 gp
Two potions of cure light wounds
one potion of cure light wounds
One potion of shield of faith +2
7 horses
6 horses
5 horses

We should add feed to the list of supplies we need since we have a lot more horses now.

Scratch 20arrows and a bow for Arim, gives me some ranged options. That and a horse... And a sword. Feed is a good shout, as is some form of restraints/manacles. At this stage I'm happy to keep all the money and unused loot together, Arim is more interested in empire building than personal wealth.

So Arim's claim:
Longbow
20 arrows
Horse
CLW Potion
Short sword

That OK with everyone? I'm not sure about the Potion...

Adding to the discussion about our permanent base, I think Oleg's will just be a temporary location and would much rather that our permanent settlement be chosen and controlled by us.

I do love the idea of setting out Oregon Trail style, and even a place like Oleg's is too busy for Wendell. But we are pretty vulnerable with our whole caravan in tow, so it might be wise to take out a few threats in the area before moving on.

I think I picked a bad time to try to be a paladin.

I beg to differ.

I think having a paladin with a strong moral grounding will be very important in the campaign, as he will keep our group from straying towards lawlessness or reckless violence in the name of justice. Some in our group might tend towards the behavior of bandits in order to defeat the bandits, but Jerrik will be a beacon for us so our new civilization is not settled on an unscrupulous foundation.

It will also provide you with some outstanding (albeit difficult) RP opportunities. You will have to weight the difficulty of providing enemies/captives a fair judgement, but we do not have the luxury of a jail or town guard. Punishment and justice in the wilderness may take on a different, more harsh tone than if we were in civilization and had a legal structure to lean on. There are several among us who would favor the sword, but none so mindful of the weight and burden of those decisions as Jerrik.

In the end, we want to build a good, (mostly) peaceful, law-abiding civilization - otherwise what really separates us from the bandits we are now hunting?

Some in our group might tend towards the behavior of bandits in order to defeat the bandits...

HEY! I...resemble that remark.

She has her reasons!
=)

Don't worry, I included myself in that statement.

Wendell has certainly killed his share of lone bandits before the campaign began, most frequently with ambush tactics or nasty, spiky traps.

He's probably a lot like the old man who despises the "damn kids on my lawn." His lawn just being the wilderness.

;)

Added the links to my tagline, got tired of scrolling up.

Looks like there's not too much we're giving to Oleg... although the horses will be worth a pretty penny to him when he sells them to random
fur trappers and hunters.