I'm unclear on whether you're asking me to take over Raziel now, or just giving approval for me doing so after 24 hours. Because you said "if I miss time," I'm going to wait the 24 hours. Hope I'm interpreting that right.
First, regarding the interaction between the characters, the NPC's and each other. I find that I'm having a difficult time viewing Alazandru as a rival. Neither of us, at this point, can even consider ourselves suitors to her. And she's had many suitors; I would imagine that such feelings are common enough that someone else having them is hardly a cause for surprise. A more likely cause for jealousy or envy, on Sorin's part anyways, would be Sandru. Whether romantic or not, he and Ameiko are close and they have history. Sorin's biggest internal conflict right now if his fear of his own inexperience and failure. Another level or two and that's pretty much over with though. I don't know how you're handling the relationship "points" (if at all) but I thought an interesting conflict would be for Sorin to develop feelings for Shalelu as well as Ameiko. Sorin's only interested in committed love, not a fling, and it would make for, potentially, some hard choices down the road. I don't know how important this is AP-storywise but it would also mean that each of the four major NPC's has at least once character with a vested interest in them. However,if this kind of thing is just going to mess things up later on then I won't pursue it.
Second, as a Paladin, Sorin isn't going to end up with a lot of feats. He doesn't have the Dex or Int to pursue those type of combat feats but I don't see him as going the power-attacking brute route either. I'm not sure how I want to build him long term but there is an interesting Shelyn specific feat in Faiths of Purity. It's called Dance of the Spears and it's requirements are 4 ranks in a perform skill and Weapon Focus with a two-handed reach weapon. When wielding that weapon, any hit gives the Dazzled condition on the target for one round. While that isn't a particularly harsh penalty, especially as you go up in level (I wouldn't even be able to take the feat until 5th level), it's fairly easy to get off as long as you're using that weapon. How do you feel about that feat?
Out of curiosity, is Lisabett the only worshiper of Desna in party?
I know Lisabett's acting really off for a relatively high Wisdom (now) character, but she has her reasons to be. It's not like Desna literally gifts people with dreams frequently, and She (Desna) led someone else to wherever Koya is.
Lisabett dreams of blood a lot, so I haven't been drawing the more obvious conclusion that it's just a manifestation of their worry for the Mother. Although I am beginning to recall my anthropology class and wonder if it is a representation of the womb, etc. No other track but Shalelu's though, which is... disturbing.
Anyway, when we get back to Sandpoint, look forward to a costume change for Lisabett. Been thinking on it for over a week now, and by the time we get back... maybe two weeks from now the description should be perfect :P
I think Lisabett is the only Desnan, but that does not mean Desna is uninterested in the rest of you...
As for the feat, it should be fine. Faiths of Purity is an official Pathfinder product, I believe, so it's totally fair game.
1,000 posts! Woohoo!
Haha. In my first game on these forums, my awful GM used to celebrate getting over 50 posts in a night. And the quality was poor. Looking back, over half those posts were awful GM talking to himself and putting us on rails, so...
Been a really busy two days, huh?
Just opened a show. Things should calm down by Monday.
Gratz. No rush.
So we got loot (YES! :D) has anyone kept track of what we found at the goblin camp? When we have time we should divide money and items.
And Almar would like to be able to craft bullets too...
I have the loot on a googledoc, linked in Lisabett's profile. I will update soonish.
Done. And I will update again when we identify the magic items. Shouldn't be too difficult with two casters in party, btt, we'll see. Will of the dice and all that.
just out of curiosity, I was thinking this earlier, but when I read the spell description, it said plants and weeds.
Rule of cool or completely wrong - could Lisabett have used the spider's own web to entangle it? it's still a natural substance...
Sorry if Lisabett's new found druid level is being played to the hilt in being very very upset that Alamar killed an animal in its natural habitat.
She should go back to being a rational human being again in a few hours. :P
It's my fault for not having it attack! That makes things a little more clear cut.
Interesting question about entangle. I'm not sure how I'd rule that. The text says "plants and weeds," but I like the idea. I will think on it and be ready with an answer when you next plunder a spider's den.
Well, it's more interesting this way than always agreeing with each others, don't you think? It spices the game up!:D
James Jacobs says Entangle only works with plants. Boo.
I like Almar and Lisabett's interaction a lot! :D
What other deities have temples in Sandpoint?
The catheral is multi-purpose.
It holds shrines to Abadar, Sarenrae, Shelyn, Gozreh, Desna, and Erastil.
I like Almar and Lisabett's interaction a lot! :D
aye, romantic comedies would have this couple together by the end. Too bad, huh?
*laughs*
My Kingmaker campaign has stagnated into nothingness on account of my wizard becoming addicted to Skyrim and another player hasn't posted in almost two weeks now. I'm thinking of taking a crack at this AP, as the NPC count is far less ambitious than my "let's save all the bandits and open this world up" scheme in KM. Obviously I'd be starting at the beginning and reading at least parts of the first book before I open up recruitment. Interested in playing?
Raziel has it. Father Zantus is a priest of Desna, but its for all six that he listed.
Cool beans. Just wanted to disclose before I got to reading. Going to be throwing up my first ever recruitment thread when I am done to enumerate my personal preferences and character generation stuffs.
I've opened up my recruitment thread, asking for four. Whatever you come up with will be the fifth to round out, guaranteed spot like.
Now that you're reading the AP, you'll discover the liberties I have taken! I had a few ideas about how to rework certain story hooks, and that is a trend that will likely continue.
Haven't gotten much passed the gutwad encounter. I am sure I will adapt as well. Just have yet to decide as how, but I'll leave that up to the folks I pick for my group, I suppose, and what they might be interested in seeing.
And I don't want to spoil things too early. Right now it doesn't much matter to Lisabett. She's just going to chill until someone tells her its time to go kill something.
"I fear that Lisabett is still thinking of the swamp, and has not realized that Koya never went to the swamp at all," Raziel comments. "Koya has seemed to have gone somewhere where we will encounter her in the future."
Does Raziel speak common?
Lisabett was thinking it was ridiculous to think the undead carried Koya to Brinewall. She said nothing about Koya still being in the swamp.
I'm uncertain how I did not make that clear.
edit
Maybe you missed that raziel was a party to Lisabett saying this
"Mother Koya is not in the swamps," Lisabett begins, lifts her head and turns to regard the hostess and her companions. "Between my eyes and Mistress Androsa's, not a single track was found. That cannot be mistaken.
I think its easy to sometimes latch on to a particular piece of text and overlook another. I know I do that on occasion. In this particular instance, you have all been trying to make sense of a few cryptic details as your only clues as to how to progress, all the while keeping track of everybody's interpretation of those details.
I do think its best to address such misunderstandings out of character, as it can quickly escalate into a roleplaying situation that would not have happened but for miscommunication and/or misinterpretation. So it's good to talk this over in the discussion thread.
Mistakes happen, in and out of character, and that is fine as long as we can clarify them.
I am trying to find the right "voice" for Lisabett still. Obviously, when she's angry and emotional she defaults to Skald and I arrange her common like I would a literal translation of Norwegian.
Sometimes I think even when I'm trying to communicate well through her it isn't received as such.
But then Raziel hasn't posted in a while so it might have been easy to overlook her great big opus, which will likely be her last if Almar is going to be running the show. She has a keen distaste for him.
Lisabett and Shalelu go together like cheese sandwiches and a cast iron skillet when it's cold out. Who knew? :D
We should probably work out everyone's share of our current loot before we head out tomorrow. Alazandaru could cetainly use an equipment upgrade.
wait, did sorin insinuate that Lisabett and Shalelu were evil with his reference to Shelyn's brother?
Coz that's very un paladin like.
Lisabett doesn't need much, just a stick. And to pay Ameiko back for the horse. She doesn't do debt.
Don't we have enough IC conflict without turning the OOC thread into a Paladin TM thread?
Regardless, I do recall a loot list made up but I don't remember totals being given.
i was curious what his intent was. not back seat dming.
it's cool, coz she's done some evil stuff, certainly. don't think killing gobos to prevent a likely attack is one of them.
which totals would you like? gold? silver?
Lisabett actually agrees with Almar that the stuff isn't ours to distribute.
Lisabett, my comment was because you seem not to have listened to my comments.
To recap what Raziel has said.
Desna doesn't work in straight pathes. We need to discover where we are to go to find Koya, because she has seen the path we will take and said she will meet us there.
So we do need the clues that the undead have left to determine where we will go next. We needed to fight the undead to find the clues. Your fixation that the swamp was a waste of time is incorrect.
My intention was to comment that everything is connected, that we do need the clues that you distain to find Koya.
Then again, I'm playing the religious trained person.
Loot Totals:
(assuming 1/2 list price sale)
either 130 or 260 gold from the goblin ears (whether 10 for a pair or 10 for an ear)
65 gold for 13 short swords
13 gold for 13 wooden shields (assuming light)
187.5 gold for masterwork longbow - gutwad
125 gp for masterwork chainshirt - gutwad
32 gold
9 unidentified arrows
1 unidentified potion
Contested Loot
533 gp in coin
4149 silver in coin
900 gp 6 masterwork shuriken
125 gp masterwork chainshirt
151 gp masterwork cold iron dagger
1 unidentified wand
1 unidentified ring
10 unidentified potions
this is assuming none of our light armor brothers want to upgrade to mwk gear, as they probably should
So we do need the clues that the undead have left to determine where we will go next. We needed to fight the undead to find the clues. Your fixation that the swamp was a waste of time is incorrect.
My intention was to comment that everything is connected, that we do need the clues that you distain to find Koya.
not a waste of time, a diversion by whomever is currently working against us. it's total smart villain tactics to draw the defenders out, smash em, then come in and mop up the rest, which is what she was trying to impart to Sorin.
So to divide this up properly we need feedback from DM re: goblin ears. Alazandaru will claim the chain shirt but i'd like a quote from DM on how much it will cost to resize it for him (its small sized). I'd also like to claim the dagger assuming its medium size- again need feedback from DM.
It would be helpful if the spellcasters could make spellcraft checks to identify the magic items if they haven't done so already.
I assume when we do have these answers and its time to claim gear, that everyone's ok with the following loot split method-
Divide total wealth (in GP for ease) + sell value (1/2 normal value) of items by six to work out everyones share in GP.
If claiming items, deduct their sell value from your share in coin.
Anything unclaimed is sold.
The only potential issue with this is if more is claimed than someone has treasure share but this can be handled on a case by case basis.
Multiple claims on a single item to be resolved with a dice off.
if that's a wand of cure light, that would be used by the whole party, and i don't think that anyone should be paying for any of it.
ditto for the potions.
and the ring.
magic items cost ridiculous amounts for a reason. they're also meant to be used. the AP wouldn't give them out if the ring of swimming wasn't useful for the character who doesn't have it trained. penalizing them by saying "you can't take loot for the next three levels till you pay that off out of your share" is not good for the group.
i am also assuming that if we come by any +2 to WIS stat items, they'd be going to Raziel to make him more effective at what he does. just as if we came by any +2 DEX items they'd probably go to Alazandaru to be a sneaky stabby person, any +2 Str or Con to Sorin, etc. I would think that the first Cha item goes to Lisabett because all of her saves and a good chunk of her abilities are tied to it, but same could be said for Sorin as well so we'll negotiate when it comes to it.
my view, anyway.
if that's a wand of cure light, that would be used by the whole party, and i don't think that anyone should be paying for any of it.
ditto for the potions.
and the ring.
I agree for something like a wand of cure light can be exempt from a split at party discretion. A wand of cure light would definitely be a 'party' item, but I don't agree to that for potions. If someone wants the potion of bulls strength they can pay for it out of their treasure share.
magic items cost ridiculous amounts for a reason. they're also meant to be used. the AP wouldn't give them out if the ring of swimming wasn't useful for the character who doesn't have it trained. penalizing them by saying "you can't take loot for the next three levels till you pay that off out of your share" is not good for the group.
This rarely happens and when it does it never takes as long as three levels to pay the pool back. Its the fairest way to do a loot divide, every character needs their WBL.
i am also assuming that if we come by any +2 to WIS stat items, they'd be going to Raziel to make him more effective at what he does. just as if we came by any +2 DEX items they'd probably go to Alazandaru to be a sneaky stabby person, any +2 Str or Con to Sorin, etc. I would think that the first Cha item goes to Lisabett because all of her saves and a good chunk of her abilities are tied to it, but same could be said for Sorin as well so we'll negotiate when it comes to it.
This basically falls under my assumed view that no one here is a dick. I won't be bidding for any +2 wis items when theres someone else they so blatantly are better suited for. As for charisma, i'd say Sorin has a better claim than you do but not so much that you should simply be written off. Roll-off for it if that comes up.
I've been in a lot of pbp's and played/run a lot of AP's. This system is in my experience, both the fairest to everyone and the best.
I have been playing for over a decade, and even our ADHD bro who was competitive with everyone to the point of killing campaigns would not demand a share of the ring of swimming from whoever equipped the item.
If everyone agrees with you, I'll relent, and you can call Lisabett Miss Whorbucks, because all she'll ever really need is a stick and a free spell slot.
I'm not looking to start a 'i've got more experience' race here.
How about you propose an alternative method of loot splitting then, because so far this is the only one i've seen proposed. And to be a decent theurge you will need expensive headbands among other items. Theres no such thing as a class that doesn't need wealth to compete, not even a vow of poverty monk.
This method never involves someone having to pay money back into the pool, it just means they claim less in later shares until their 'debt' is paid- it means someone can actually claim the +5 sword of awesomeness that is great for their character without everyone complaining that this character has 50K more in items than anyone else, because it will eventually balance out.
No one loses out, those who don't get the item they want to claim get the gold to compensate. Everyone maintains roughly equal wealth with one another throughout the AP.
not starting a race.
As I said, items which benefit the party are kept by the party at no cost.
Gold and coins are distributed equally.
Alazandaru can use that chain shirt, it would improve his AC. I understand that. Lisabett can't use armor. Alazandaru should have it. The what? 60 gp she'd get if he paid into the pool wouldn't mean all that much.
Potion of bull strength makes Sorin a huge force for good for a few rounds, may mean the difference between a live baddie to reek havoc on us squishies and a dead one. He should have it without having to pay for it. In fact, that's one less spell slot Raziel will have to prepare to back him up (assuming he would). I would pay for Sorin to have a potion of bulls strength if it came to that.
A stat raising item is 2000 gp. A stat item makes everyone more effective at what they should be doing to help the group as a whole. Sorin's smite damage goes up with a CHA item, Raziel's ability to cure diseases and dispel curses go up with a WIS item. Those again are both very useful things to the group. Better dex means more sneaking for our rogue to be able to use his class attack of the same name to greater benefit.
You aren't actually proposing any kind of organised system as much as a muddled claiming system of best fit. Unless the items we find are magically organised into a perfect pile for each of us with labels, this will not work well down the line.
Still- lets let the others weigh in before we continue this.
I am an agent of Chaos. :D
I just know I've never had problems with this stuff before. Again, if everyone vote for the pool, that's the way we'll do it and I'll abide.
And sneak Sorin potions of Eagle's Splendor and watch him dance. :)
i was curious what his intent was. not back seat dming.
Sorry, that's my bad. I often, deliberately, don't always voice out Sorin's thoughts; especially if it pertains to an internal struggle he's having.
The reason he brought up Dou-Bral as Dou-Bral (rather than saying Zon-Kuthon) is that Dou-Bral was a good deity who shared the same portfolio's as Shelyn. It was only after he embraced darkness that he became Zon-Kuthon. Sorin is worried that Lisabett is walking the same path and is afraid it will lead to the same result. Whether that view is accurate or not, it's what Sorin is currently thinking.
Sorin's Code states that you should never assume someone can't be redeemed and that killing destroys hope. To Sorin, Lisabett is using Minherzi as an excuse to justify further killing under the guise of preventing further tragedy. But in Sorin's mind, it's that kind of thinking that causes further tragedy. Under different circumstances, he might have sought Lisabett out and tried to resolve this but right now Sorin believes that Lisabett isn't really listening to what people are saying except to pounce on perceived insults. Again, whether that view is accurate or not, it's what Sorin is thinking.
It will be interesting to see how they manage to reconcile two very opposite world views. I found it amusing that everyone was so caught up in our arguement that no one bothered to answer Shalelu's question.
On an unrelated note, before he left, Sorin said "I need to prepare...". I thought it was obvious when he said he was leaving that he was referring to the Inn and not the group. Apologies if that wasn't clear.
As for treasure distribution, I'm torn. The problem, sometimes, with published adventures is that you can end up with treasue that, despite it's "assigned" value (which is really relative and not fixed), is of no particular use to anyone in the party. I confess that I'm not fond of the WBL system; it's too metagame. I played for 20 years without such a system and had far fewer problems than I've had since it was introduced. Whatever system we decide to use is fine with me. While as a player, there are certain things it would be nice for Sorin to get, as a character, he's not going to quibble over treasure.
-Character interaction: as long as everyone here understands there's no malice in the way we roleplay our different characters I see no problems with this. Almar is a fictional charactr, I do not agree on several choices he makes or on much of his Point of View on things. I'm just roleplaying him as a driven, tough individual with a "us against the world" mentality (more or less). I'm sure all of you are doing the same with your characters. As long as we work togheter in a productive way against enemies, I find this interaction actually enjoyable.
-Loot splitting: I'd like to suggest the following.
1. Items that are CLEARLY more useful for some characters should go to those characters. Example: Alazandru wants the +1 magical dagger, as he's clearly the character who's more proficient with the weapon he gets it.
2. Items usueful for more than one character should go to the first player who claims them, BUT that player won't be able to get the next "contested" item as he got what he wanted first and now it's other players time to do the same (unless everyone agrees he should get the next item too, of course). Example: Alazandru and Almar both want the +1 chainmail armor, Alazandru asks for it first, Alazandru gets it. After a while the group finds a +1 Studded Leather Armor, again Alazandru and Almar are both interessed, again Alazandru asks for it first, but Almar gets it because Alazandru won a "contested item" already.
3.If there are more than 2 players interessed in an item the first one who claims it gets it. Then he's excluded from getting "contested items" as long as there are other players who were left empty handed. The procedure reapplays for other players too untill everyone gets a "contested item".
4. Selling magical items should be discussed among the group and that should happen only if the majority agrees and no one claims a certain item. Actually getting all the gold those items are worth should ask for in game play with the GM considering if the local shops have enough gold or if they are willing to buy said items, I for one would consider the pawnshop of a little village like Sandpoint incapable of providing a lot of gold for purchases, and I would roleplay merchants as people who want to make as much profit as possible (that's just a suggestion though).
-As for the loot if the GM allows us to get the treasure in the chests, Almar would like to claim some potions (depending on what they are), the strange sword he took from Tatsumu, and the armor he took from him too.
Please keep the discussion in here respectful. I understand that some characters are frustrated with one another, but I do not want to see that bleeding into out-of-character discussion. Remember, we're all here to have fun.
I very much admire all of you as role-players, and I am working to forward the story in a meaningful way that incorporates the tension currently within the group. I hope that proves compelling and does not lead to resentment out-of-character. At the point that it does, I will need to address it directly.
I apologize if this sounds pretentious at all, but it's something I need to constantly remind myself of in my professional life: text-based interaction is problematic on many levels, and it is easy to misinterpret what others are saying. Please keep this in mind as you read and respond in and out of character.
As for the loot system, I generally like to stay out of the discussion and allow players to come up with a method that they all agree on. If the group cannot come to consensus, I can make a call on it, certainly keeping proposed ideas in mind as I do so.
Is there anything I could be doing to ease any of this?
not a waste of time, a diversion by whomever is currently working against us. it's total smart villain tactics to draw the defenders out, smash em, then come in and mop up the rest, which is what she was trying to impart to Sorin.
So we do need the clues that the undead have left to determine where we will go next. We needed to fight the undead to find the clues. Your fixation that the swamp was a waste of time is incorrect.
My intention was to comment that everything is connected, that we do need the clues that you distain to find Koya.
And there lies the biggest difference between Raziel and Lisabett.
Raziel thinks that the goblins disturbed the undead on their own, without outside help. And that finding the chests will lead us on the path that Desna has put before us, and not a delaying tactic that Lisabett seems to believe.In other words, Raziel thinks Lisabett is inventing far more enemies and complex plots then there actually are.
Lisabett wouldn't follow Almar doesn't mean she won't work with him. I find it funny that they basically say variations of the same exact thing and he still manages to make her angry. She's really upset that everything she says seems to be misinterpreted by Sorin. Raziel is good people, she's been trying to stick with him while everyone else runs all over the map. Alazandaru she's trying not to make angry either, again, not working out too well thus far.
Almar is basically proposing what I did, and what Sorin's player seems to be up to as well. I favor a more "chaotic" distribution as opposed to splitting coin equally because it's supposed to be cooperative. I see a strength item, I obviously don't need it, please Sorin take it so that you can be the best paladin you can be, dex for Alazandaru and Almar too (I suppose) and if I'm a smart player I can probably go quite a few levels before starting in on headbands and what not for Lisabett because obviously as an MT and heavily MAD save or dies are really bad spells to be preparing. No one should have to pay the costs for that, because it's what keeps us all achieving the objectives set by the AP.
@Raziel - yeah, she doesn't know where her former captain is, and it's totally something that they would have cooked up together to employ. Guilt and paranoia go hand in hand.
The diverse interpretations of the situation all make sense given your characters' backgrounds. It's great roleplaying, I just hope we all get along when all is said and done. :)