Which is better for the party?

I’m soon going to be joining a new game, and using the 20pt point buy. I need to make a damage dealer, as the party is light on that and doing insane damage is fun for me. Party has casters filled basically, and has a melee fighter who is sword/board tank type. So I was thinking barb dwarf (18 str and con at lvl1). Is Barb a good long term class for pure damage output? I’ve looked at a few other builds, including the ranger switch hitter, which isn’t bad. Basically, what is a good to great melee build to kill stuff. And please keep it to twohanders if possible.

On a related note, what are good barb feats? For damage or overall goodness. I know Power Attack, but that’s one of what? 11 feats?

If allowed material is Pathfinder only, if you're looking at pure damage, Fighter far outshines the Barbarian.

The majority of the time, the Fighter will outdamage the Barbarian - except when raging, then you up the damage and can do other stuff.

Is 3.5 allowed?

Sounds to me like your party is rogueless, which could be a problem. How about a ranger-rogue build? That'd cover a lot of your party's skill and scouting holes, and it can be pretty heavy damage especially if your favored enemies are around a lot.

If you can be bothered with a rogue, he will deliver the damage.

Personally I like the idea of a high str rogue, with Improved Faint, Power Attack and Cleave (go for whirlwind attack if you fight large groups often).

The high str, and Imp. Faint will allow you to use your sneak attack every round, even if you stand alone to stab your opponent in the face. Granted, you won't be able to use your second, or third attack, but the BAB for rogues is too low to make the viable for damage anyway.

Power attack will buff your damage nicely and combined with a high str, will make your average damage output rather nice. And it will give you access to Cleave.

Why Cleave you ask? Because nothing I've found in the rules direktly states that you can only Sneak Attack one target per Sneak Attack. Thus if you're able to Sneak Attack one enemy, while another is within reach, and unaware, you can Cleave Sneak Attack him. So if your group let's you sneak up on the guards before they charge in, you can often kill two of them before anyone even notice you.

Same thing with Whirlwind attack. Drink an invisibility potion, stealth into the middle of the group and Sneak Attack each creature in reach. Works even better with Greater Invisibility, but that costs far more as well.

And of course you should go for heavier armor, to keep you alive, perhaps get some potions, or a wand of shield.

The best damage dealer in the game is either the ranged ranger, ranged fighter or ranged inquisitor.

Ranged Combat is the way to deal the most in pathfinder, and you do far more damage then a melee combat.
I would say try the inquisitor or ranger as they give you some utility spells and your saves should be better then a fighter's.

The high str, and Imp. Faint will allow you to use your sneak attack every round, even if you stand alone to stab your opponent in the face.

*giggles at the image of a rogue passing out as a move action instead of a standard*

For pure damage out put I find using the APG Archetype for the Two Handed Fighter looks very promising. 2D6 +18 Damage at 4th level is sweet with no minus to hit for power attacking.

I fall prone!
is that faint or improved faint?

There are lots of damage dealing builds out there. Any of the 3/4 or full BAB classes can do enough damage to take care of enemies. Fighter will give you the most consistent damage after level 5. Barbarian is better before then, but never catches back up after. He is good enough to stay competative every level though. I haven't looked at the APG much, and am just starting to now, so I may miss some things in there.

Dwarf is a decent choise for barbarian. The fast movement will counteract the racial penalty, and you can move the same as everyone else in medium armor.

My personal favorite build on the barbarian is the tripper/bull rusher. trip opponents closing to you and then bull rush them back on the AoO. Its the only class that can bull rush on an AoO without a shield, so you can do it with a guisarm. Knockback and Strenght Surge are the key rage powers, and take the tripping and bull rush feat lines, focusing on the tripping. I would not bother with knockdown, though come and get me looks nice if you have enough dex (3 AoO per opponent).

I also like medium-high charisma intimidating builds, but with only 20 point buy and those stats, and dwarf, I wouldn't bother. You will only ever be mediocre at it. The idea is you max your intimidate and eventually take terrifying howl to make foes run away. Shaken is a good status ailment every enemy should get anyway, especially if you have good caster support (-2 saves FTW).

Spirit and Fiend totem powers look like they would be good for a 2 hander. Beast, unfortunately, does not even though it gets you pounce.

If I wanted to go pure 2 handed damge I think I would try something like:
Invulnerable Barbarian
F1. Power Attack
R2. Animal Fury
F3. Raging Vitality
R4. Fiend Totem, Lesser
F5. Weapon Focus
R6. Fiend Totem
F7. Lunge
R8. Unexpected Strike
F9. Improved Critical
R10. Fiend Totem, Greater
F11. Dazing Assault
R12. Mighty Swing

For pure damage out put I find using the APG Archetype for the Two Handed Fighter looks very promising. 2D6 +18 Damage at 4th level is sweet with no minus to hit for power attacking.

I'm interested, how do you achieve that?

What else?

voska66 wrote:

For pure damage out put I find using the APG Archetype for the Two Handed Fighter looks very promising. 2D6 +18 Damage at 4th level is sweet with no minus to hit for power attacking.

I'm interested, how do you achieve that?

Great Sword = 2d6
Strength 20 = 5 w. Overhand chop = 10

What else?

Furrious Focus I think, the feat that removes the penalty to the first attack for power attacking.

I'm rather fond of the Sniper Rogue Archetype as a Halfling. Take the Halfing racial that reduces sniping penalties and the Advanced Rogue Talent that reduces sniping penalties, bump your Stealth up, and Sneak Attack Snipe from up to 90 feet away every round at no penalty.

I don't want to be a rogue. I am already playing one in another game and would really rather not. The fighter idea looks good. and his 2d6+18 is: 2d6+((5str*2)+2WS+6PA) I would add +1 for a +1 weapon at 4th lvl. However i get the feeling that the wealth table isn't followed so much for magic gear. But you should beable to have +1 weapon and +1 armor by lvl 4 according to the wealth tabe. (and if you focus on damage, please don't say you wouldn't get a +1 weapon as soon as you can, after fullplate)

I’m soon going to be joining a new game, and using the 20pt point buy. I need to make a damage dealer, as the party is light on that and doing insane damage is fun for me.

Is there a reason that you want it to be melee damage rather than ranged damage?

Not saying there's anything wrong with either, just curious.

Do you know what enemies you will be facing?

What else do you want out of this character beyond DPS?

-James

James I like your questions.

Melee because otherwise for a group of liek 6 only one frount liner. That is not a good amount and I do enjoy being in the frount line. I currently play many range/support types.

No clue on enimies, it is a modual but I won't say the name so that it stays fair.

DPS is key, otherwise something fun to play. The group has knowledge skills covered with a bard, and has an orical. So not sure what else. Would preffer to not be the face.

James I like your questions.

Melee because otherwise for a group of liek 6 only one frount liner. That is not a good amount and I do enjoy being in the frount line. I currently play many range/support types.

DPS is key, otherwise something fun to play. The group has knowledge skills covered with a bard, and has an orical. So not sure what else. Would preffer to not be the face.

Okay that helps a bit. Knowing that your party doesn't need knowledges and you don't want to be the face. Likewise that you want to hold the front line rather than say be a mounted charger, etc.

Now there are other things that can be brought to the table.

Traps? Tracking? Scouting?

Any of these not covered/fun for you to have?

Also how much damage do you need to deliver? Does the party deliver any degree of damage without you?

Is there something that you find fun to play, or things that you are loathe to play? I.e. some people hate casters, you mentioned that you are playing a rogue in another campaign and some people hate playing things similar to others that they are playing, etc.

Also, please forgive if you answered earlier.. what materials can you take from? Also what levels do you want to plan this for?

-James

Well, he says he has a bard. So in all probability, most of the thief type skills are covered adequately. Have you considered a fighter as a switch-hitter build? Composite longbow and great sword perhaps? A figher has plenty of feats to cash that check if you're not going shield feat chains or TWF feat chains. With full plate and no shield, you'd still have decent defense (armor training will help there), and with heavy blades and bows as your first two weapon training groups you'd have excellent damage potential. If you're enlarged, there are some fun possibilities with great cleave or whirlwind attack and lunge for sweeping rooms, even without minoring in pole arms or reach weapons.

Empty hand drunken monk.

The Flame Oracle is pretty decent at damage output with its spells and burning. You still be armored and capable of swinging a weapon (and turning into a Fire Elemental). I suggest haunted curse so you can telekinesis holly bombs.

Here is a creaking awesome dpr, two handed dr/ soak barbarian pouncer.
Stats were 4d6, drop low so you might need to tweak.

Build: Barbarian20
Race: Human Alignment: Chaotic Good
Theme- Damage,
Ability Scores:
STR 19 (20)
DEX 13 (14)
CON 17 (18)
INT 9
WIS 10
CHA 15 (16)
Trait:
Devoted Faith- +1 to will
Favored Class: Skill Points+skilled racial= 5 per level (at level 15 favored bonus APG 1/3 to superstition)
Invulnerable Rager Varient
Char Lvl Class BAB Fort Ref Will Feats/Special
1 Barb1 1 2 0 0 Fast Movement, Rage, Power Attack, Raging Vitality
2 2 2 3 0 0 DR1/-, Lesser Beast Totem
3 3 3 3 1 1 Extreme Endurance, Furious Focus
4 4 4 4 1 1 DR2/-, Guarded Stance
5 5 5 4 1 1 Extra Rage Power: Reckless Abandon
6 6 6 5 2 2 DR3/-, FireResist1, Beast Totem
7 7 7 5 2 2 Combat Reflexes
8 8 8 6 2 2 DR4/-, Inspire Ferocity
9 9 6 3 3 FireResist2, Extra Rage Power: Clear Mind
10 10 7 3 3 DR5/-,Gtr Beast Totem
11 11 7 3 3 Greater Rage, Dreadful Carnage
12 12 8 4 4 FireResist3, DR6/-, Come and Get Me
13 13 8 4 4 Dazing Assault
14 14 9 4 4 DR7/-, Moment of Clarity
15 15 9 5 5 FireResist4, Extra Rage Power: Superstition
16 16 10 5 5 DR8/-, Witch Hunter
17 17 10 5 5 Tireless Rage, Mounted Combat
18 18 11 6 6 DR9/-, FireResist5, Ferocious Mount
19 19 11 6 6 Gtr Ferocious Mount
20 Barb11 20 12 6 6 Mighty Rage, DR10/-, Strength Surge

Key Rage Powers- Beast Totem (+1 Nat Armor, +1 per 4/lvls max 6)
Reckless Abandon (-6 to AC for +6 to Attack)
Guarded Stance (+4 dodge AC)

Ends up with DR 10/-, (DR20/- vs non lethal)

AC= 10 +6(Breastplate) +5(Magic)+5(Amulet enhancement)+5(Ring)+5 (Dex+Belt)+6 (Natural)-6(Reckless Abandon)= 36. Plus 4 for Guarded Stance for first 9 rounds of rage= 40.

Besides soaking and hitting he can buff any allies in 30ft for 3rds equal to reckless abandon mod (more with Cha Item).
Can Take -5 to Daze opponents for 1 round. (doesn’t allow use of Come and get me, but stops allies from getting hit)

Taking weapon Rage and full power attack into account Final Full Attack is
BAB20 +4(Rage STR+8) +6(Reckless Abandon) + 5(STR) +3(Belt of Physical Perfection) +5(wpn enhancement) -6(PA) 37/32/27/22 * This is Better than a fighter*

Damage Primary= +5, Shock, holy, keen, ghost touch Greataxe
D12+ 5(wpn enhance) +12(str,belt x1.5) +1d6 (shock) +2d6(holy)+ 18(PA)= ave 44 or 50vs evil.

Vs Spellcasters The Witchunter power adds +6 Damage vs any creature with spells or SLA’s. That is nearly every significant enemy.