"A WORTHY DEATH!"
And yes, minor in-character conflict is great for RP. Just making sure we are all on the same page, and there is no "HOW CAN YOU RUIN MY CHARACTER BY PLAYING YOURS LIKE THAT?!" drama-royalty around that poisons the game. Heard the GM tell some horror stories of bad players that could not handle minor things, like another character knowing a certain language that was "their" thing.
Glad to know everyone are cool with portraying low cha ^^
Don't forget to cross off 85 and 127. I'm pretty sure we won't get by on the "trebuchet is not a catapult" technicality.
Wow, good thing I have not planned to post any more today. I just read something completely wrong. Thought one of the titles on this board was "Death to Smoochy" when it was something waaaaay off.
Language is a bit ambiguous, but if the group wants to take not even 30 minutes to scout the area from the cliff to the south, you can see most of the trails available. Essentially, you'll ditch the crummy map that I have given you for the map that'll show you where the trails go, but not anything else.
One of those things that I as a GM would say OOC in a TT game, and then just flip the book around and let ya'll take a gander and decide where you want to go.
So in my normal table top group, I have a friend who, as a rule, refuses to take ranged weapons. Ever. When I read Valcrim's post about the crossbow, I thought to myself, 'crap, did I take a ranged weapon?'. Thankfully I did, but for a moment I was thinking I just pulled the same kind of thing. Had me chuckling abit.
You mean you didn't take the boomerang scimitar feat? :-p
I had to buy a shield in another PbP game because I was focused on other things I went into combat and ended up having to back peddle on an action, "I pull my....er I...step back and fight defensively!". Sometimes we just don't catch it all.
Refusing to take a ranged weapon is rather silly. Not affording a GOOD one because you are lv1 is a different story. I am sure both Broderus and Treygan would very much like to have strength adjusted bows.
One of the few things I think 4e does better, making archery go off dex for both hit and damage. And heavy thrown weapons go off strength alone.
Well now, role players can be a silly lot for sure. Its part of our charm ;-)
I agree with your 4e observation some of the mechanical tweaks like those made me pretty happy. Others, not so much.
I liked 4e. I know it puts me in the minority, but I thought the streamlined process it provided was good, especially as a DM. Made it way easier. But it did make the game feel more like a tacticial miniature game and not an RPG so much. Plus it had the Swordmage, the first time I felt the sword-wielding mage was done right for the flavor I wanted.
I liked 4e. I know it puts me in the minority, but I thought the streamlined process it provided was good, especially as a DM. Made it way easier. But it did make the game feel more like a tacticial miniature game and not an RPG so much. Plus it had the Swordmage, the first time I felt the sword-wielding mage was done right for the flavor I wanted.
Ultimately the attempt at absolute mechanical parity between classes is what made me shy away from it. Felt like MMO logic; every class needed to be tweaked and balanced against the other to the point that it felt to me that no class was different from another. You get a 1 per round ability? Me too! Just a little too cookie cutter for my tastes.
Truth be told some of that sort of stuff in 3.0, 3.5 and Pathfinder also rubs me slightly the wrong way. I remember when, yes wizards were powerful, but a fighter leveled twice as fast and had a castle after a dozen levels or whatever. Not all parity is numerical or combat based and I think sometimes the system has suffered from attempts to make people "equal" in some concertized numerical way. Older versions seemed less concerned with that per se. Of course I say that with what I am sure are VERY rose colored glasses.
4e did some things that I thought were awesome. Ritual spells, the realignment of combat mechanics like Vlacrim mentioned, and some other stuff. Things that I think are valuable and worthy of respect. So I may not like to play 4e but I certainly am not an edition war warrior. Each has its benefits and drawbacks.
4e did some things right, but as you say; tactical miniature game, not an RPG. And with the Magus turning out quite awesome, especially at levels 5-10, Swordmage is no longer missed in my book.
So, with majority vote for the cliff, lets get on the plot advancement ride!
i am not a machine!!
*cries*
Agreed, Valcrim. ONWARD, to the cliff, and Glory!
i am not a machine!!
*cries*
*narrows eyes suspiciously* just the sort of thing a machine would say...Hhhhmmmmm
I hope you're having fun with your bard, PirateDevon. He's fun to read. :P
Capatcha: hermes Stedding84
I am. A lot. In fact, more than I even thought I would. I'm glad its fun for others too.
Seconded. Have seen and played several bards in my day, and Joya is already in my top 10, even if my dwarf is being... a dwarf.
Thirded. I very much like Joyabraund, and Seiji does too, despite the Tian's no-nonsense demeanor.
I actually liked 4th Edition pretty well with the original PHB as it seemed to simplify several things that I felt didn't need to be as complicated as they were in 3.5. By the time the third PHB came out two years later, however, they had almost 30 classes, all of which resembled each other too closely. Once Essentials reared its head, I ran screaming to Pathfinder and have been very satisfied.
I do miss the Shaman class though. Spirit companions were pretty cool.
Don't sell yourself short there; I'm having a great time reading Valcrim, and he's definitely a guy I wouldn't mind having my back.
Definitely not looking to start an edition war, but I never liked 4th Edition from the start. As a child, I cut my teeth on the old Mentzer Basic Set and continued to play using these rules for a long time. I eventually walked away from the hobby and came back towards the tail end of 3.5. I liked what I saw and got reinvigorated into roleplaying. When 4th edition came about, I tried to have an open mind and even received the Player's Handbook as a Christmas present from my wife. Opening the book, I was really discouraged with the "video game aspect" of the new edition. It seemed like everyone received ungodly amounts of hit points and unexplained powers such as healing surges. Any semblance of realism was lost, and I was very excited to come across Paizo and Pathfinder. I've been having a ball ever since!
I like the group in general. We have reservation, we have brooding...we have...well...me and the dwarf. So far I think we have flavor and hopefully on a decent path to depth. I'm stoked.
On a separate note I need to go break this glass bottle I am drinking from because Broderus is talking smack and he wants a FIGHT! :-P
time for pbp's longest fistfight, john carpenter style?
I bet on Roddy Piper.
In other news, hubby and I will be here through Christmas. Understand if folk have other places to be, and so forth, just lettin' ya know that between the in laws and fantasy land at the computer... well...
God Jul fra Norge! Where the Luthran church is the official state religion, protected by our good King Harald.
i invite everyone to join me in a very special one off with a... less than sober GM in which you all have, for a limited amount of time, the opportunity to pin the dragon tail on your NPC of choice!!
CMD is capped at 13, coz it's a lucky number. Narrate your actions, and I may give bonuses! Or... will, if they please me.
Again, god jul!
*runs down to get more baileys and coffee*
i will let folk react to valcrim in their own time, so Broderus and Joyabraund don't feel like they're playin' catchup quite so bad.
Just wanted to wish everyone who celebrates the holiday a Merry Christmas!
- ISAIAH 9:6
Not to back-seat GM or anything, but PF have new Detect Evil rules compared to 3.5:
"Lesser evil" no longer detects at all. Gobbos, common rapists/murderers, even an ogre will NOT detect as evil, even if they are evil to the core. These need to be more than 4HD.
Giving off an evil aura is a pretty huge deal now, and anything that does detect is usually past the point of no return, and have done some truly heinous crap to get where they are, or are simply manifestations of evil too horrible to reason with. (Fiends, undead, servants of evil gods etc)
Basically, if something detects as evil now, it is usually OK to smite it. Which I think is the whole reason it was changed, so you don't get the "But the bartender was EVIL! He likely cheated his customers and stole from work! He had to die!" scenarios.
Basically, if something detects as evil now, it is usually OK to smite it. Which I think is the whole reason it was changed, so you don't get the "But the bartender was EVIL! He likely cheated his customers and stole from work! He had to die!" scenarios.
Argh...I played in a game with that paladin for nearly a year. Fortunately, he usually only threatened to behave like that. I kept thinking the GM was going to have Heironeous "correct" his errant follower, but instead he had Vecna try to convert the paladin. That didn't end up happening, but it sure reigned in that player. If I recall, he atoned in pretty short order after that.
A lot of people miss the change to detect evil. I didn't notice it myself until a player used it in a game that I was running and I looked the spell/ability up (whilst grumbling) just to be clear on what I had to tell him. I was rather surprised at the change, but it's actually a great one (in my opinion).
Pallys are great. I have yet to play one myself, though. My one Lawful Good character was much more focused on the good than the order part. She was very... literal, though, as in "our instructions say we have the right to do x, y, and z. There's no room for interpretation there."
Someday I'll have to challenge myself and make a paladin of the inheritor, because it'd be the absolute last thing I could ever see myself being able to play properly.
LG is hard to do right, IMO.
One could argue that Valcrim is being chaotic, as he intends to violate privacy without authority
But lawful points:
- Tells him why he is angry, and going to violate his privacy
- Angry over repeated lying about very serious matters.
- Reality does not mesh with situation: Known snakewrangler being attacked by snakes? And then a dead witch is at fault?
Also, Torag dogma:
- If he is in cahoots with something bad, and do nothing, we leave ourselves open to pincer attacks, or leave the enemy with intelligence they can use.
Finally, since we have two LG divine types, I am consciously making Valcrim different in his approach and priorities. Because same alignment =/= same mindset. And the idea that alignment = predefined way of thinking is one of my pet peeves.
Meh, alignment's stupid anyway, but I don't want to start that kind of arguement so I'll just say that's my own opinion. My character probably thinks you got upset pretty fast over this, but it's not like he doesn't see the justification in your actions.
Now I have a friend who tried to justify mutilation of another being prior to questioning as a lawful good act since the information would have served the greater good. That was not a fun discussion.
Yeah... I had to explain to someone that executing a guy they took prisoner through scry-teleport kidnapping, killing his wife's little puppy in the process, and not even trying to offer him a fair trial was... neither lawful nor good. Not to mention this was a BARON of their homeland, and they were supposed to act as lawful authority.
Reasoning: "Its OK, since he had done bad things before, and if he remained alive, he could become a thorn in our side."
Valcrim is strict and will not be sidetracked when his allies are threatened. He follows the dogma of Torag, which is orthodox and clear cut, demanding you challenge and destroy evil if needed to protect someone, and he is not big on forgiving. But he is not going to, now nor ever, going to physically hurt someone over perceived threats. Ransacking his shack to verify that he is not in cahoots with evil is fair game, as all it does to "harm" him is make his day a little more crappy. Not like Valcrim plans to beat him senseless if his story checks out.
He got angry when the warden lied about the goblins, and he hates goblinoids with the a passion equal to the blaze of a mithril forge. It is one of his "buttons".
I don't think Valcrim's behavior is at all out of line with Lawful Good, but like Treygan, I'm not a huge fan of alignment. I think it should aim to define your character's ethics/philosophy, but should never be a limiting factor when you feel you are playing your character truthfully. A religious code is different, but that's a clear roleplaying choice, not a game mechanic (like alignment).
Anyway, alignment is a mainstay of D&D/Pathfinder, and I don't think it gets in the way all that much; it can help solidify a character concept, certainly.
Valcrim offering Joyabraund to resist his push has put me in a rather strange position as a GM. At table, this stuff could be cleared up as it happens, without GM intervention, but I can't really continue without knowing what Joyabraund's response is.
But, know that you are all being observed. And the naughty list is an option once again. :P
I know I'm at least enjoying the interaction thus far. It's good to see some clashes like this, especially early on when we haven't gotten to start trusting each other as comrades.
the halfling has amazing force of personality, which means... that when he's annoying people, it's going to be all the more forceful! :D
I can see in wargaming groups the "we work as a team and share the same mind" from the very beginning is more... fluid, but as PbP relies upon roleplaying... Groups that start out all jetskis and handj*bs from the start are... odd.
I don't think Hu5tru have mentioned in-game that Valcrim spotted the warden?
nope, was gettin' round to it eventually.
Treygan, would you have delayed until after Valcrim went in, or moved through him?
Probably delayed given this situation.
kay
Dice rolla don't like ya for diplo-do.
But, you know, this thing is Evil enough to detect, so it's pretty darn evil. It's not a level 1 bandit.
Evil as per Detect Evil:
5+HD/LV Evil Creatures, slow advancement to stronger auras.
2+ HD/LV Undead, moderate advancement
All Evil Clerics/Antipaladins, fast advancement (Lv5 cleric is STRONG evil)
All Evil outsiders, as clerics
Ergo: Evil clerics are as bad as the demons and devils they collude with.
In my games I interpret this as a taint on the very soul, and anything beyond faint is beyond redemption (Lv11+ for those who do not deal with demons and such). And no goodly god would fault you for not trying.
I think I somehow missed that Treygan said he was evil. I certainly was confused by the narrative as established but I don't want to gunk things up overly so by claiming my character doesn't see things as they happened. This scenario pretty much means Joyabraund will listen from now on but I just wanted to explain why I was confused.
I edited my post after you posted. Probably should've done it abit differently. Sorry about that. I'll try to make it a bit more clear in the future. Still this was an interesting first encounter. Depending on how the group was setup, not everyone would necessarily trust each other and I could see how this would cause conflict.
Oh I didn't see that. Well it pretty much is self resolved. Joyabraund didn't mistrust per se just was more perplexed.
Its weird because I try to ask myself does any given person know what a "paladin" or "cleric" can overtly do? As a caster myself I know there are ways to be sure of someones cosmological alignment but I don't know that Joyabraund at his age and training knows with absolute clarity that some folks can just look at something like a paly does and say "yup that there rascal be evil!"
All that said, he knows that *now* and certainly is thankful for it! He was going to get all huffed about assaulting a poor halfling (they've had it hard as a race you know :p). But he is now "in the know". Treygan says "foul monster" he really means it ;-D.
That's a good question. I wasn't sure how aware Seiji might be of Treygan's detect evil ability. I don't think he's encountered many paladins, but he is trained in Spellcraft.
Hey gents. Just got home from the night out with my husband for our third anniversary. We saw The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo at the local kino, and had pizza after, because the only other restaurants open this time of year are Chinese. I am happy to report that my husband did not spill anything on his button-down shirt.
Will look at things in the thread in the morning time. Apologies for any inconvenience.
As a cleric of a LG faith that has a lot of paladins, and being able to cast Detect Evil himself, I just assumed Valcrim knew that paladins do that.
Kinda like a druid with trackless step knows what is going on when a ranger does it.
For others, I tend to run it as a Spellcraft DC17 (lv1 spell) and/or knowledge(religion) DC10 check. After all, being able to ferret out evil IS a very iconic paladin ability. If you know basics about religion, you know basics about their champions.
Luckily Kno Religion is not one of my trained and Joyabraund doesn't spend a lot of time thinking about the gods until he has reason to wonder about their directives ;-)
You are right it is pretty iconic to players but I wonder how either spectacular (or not perhaps) such abilities are. There never is a very good signal about what adventurer population density is like.
To touch back on an earlier conversation I think the older editions *did* address this by making it easier to be a fighter or thief or what have you it was clear that there were more of that class in the world as opposed to wizards.
How common are clerics and paladins as opposed to NPC caster of faith like the adept in Golarion? Common enough in the APs but that is exceptional people dealing with exceptional people...a fun mental exercise...at least fo someone like me ;-)
@Hu5tru - congrats on the anniversary. Good to know that the holiday time phenomena of everything but pizza and Chinese restaurants being open is an international affair. Special super duper high five bonus for weddings in Dec. My anni was on the 15th.
Yeah, I agree it was kind of a catch-22 with the older editions. On the one hand, it stifled player choice a bit, but it also made classes like the paladin, ranger, etc. special and exceptional. If you encountered a paladin, you knew he had amazing ability scores and was definitely a cut above the societal norm. Adventurers of this sort were rare, and I'm sure very few really knew about their abilities and/or weaknesses. Thinking about how common these classes are in Golarion is a fun mental exercise for me too! :)
Hu5tru - congratulations on the wedding anniversary! I also wanted to wish everyone a Happy New Year! I'll be working over New Year's Eve and Day, so go out and raise some hell for me!
Happy New Year from Norway, gents. I will be getting round to a normal posting schedule soon. I promise.
Feeling a little dizzy from all the black powder fumes. Here in Norway, private citizens put on the light shows without supervision.
HAPPY NEW YEARS EVERYONE!